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Premades are still ruining BG pug ques
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Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That's not really the point. It's about accessibility and an increase in BG population. Coordinated, gear stacking premades on voice coms pug stomping for hours on end drive people away from BG's, thereby making it worse for everyone. I would bet cash money that if it were confirmed that Premades were forced into their own queues, solo BG queue would flourish like never before.
And believe me, the potential for solo queue is far, far greater, but people have no desire to put up with that crap.Edited by Drachenfier on May 22, 2018 4:05PM1 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭"Pre mades are ruining BG's"
So people cant have friends and actually ppay a mmo for what it is, a multiplayer game?
Mmo's are not meant to be a solofest
Well technically they are meant to be massively multiplayer games in a persistent world, not tiny multiplayer like bgs (or dungeons/raids) played in an instance outside of that persistent world.0 -
Orjix✭✭✭✭I don't know where you guys find all these premades, last week I spent nearly all my free time in BG and I rarely came across a group, getting put in a group with a bunch of people that are willing to work together? Sure. But a set group seen over and over? Very few times4 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know where you guys find all these premades, last week I spent nearly all my free time in BG and I rarely came across a group, getting put in a group with a bunch of people that are willing to work together? Sure. But a set group seen over and over? Very few times
I haven't run a BG in a couple months, but the last few times I did I was seeing the same premades over and over.
Which is why I quit doing them until Summerset.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know where you guys find all these premades, last week I spent nearly all my free time in BG and I rarely came across a group, getting put in a group with a bunch of people that are willing to work together? Sure. But a set group seen over and over? Very few times
This.
I maybe get paired against a premade once a night.
I pay close attention to the names, I'm looking for people, and it's almost always a different group.1 -
MyKillv2.0✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why can’t they just make separate queues for Team and Solo? Like...every other game?
"Why can this game not do (insert common issue) like every other game I play..."
This thought will be a common occurrence in your ESO game play. The game is fun, no doubt. However the company's inability to solve/execute simple task will drive you insane.
I share your opinion of BGs and the separate que. I have stated since the feature launched with Morrowind that the best experience I ever had in BGs was when the que was bugged and you had to que solo. After they "corrected" the issue, BGs are more often steam roll matches where premade groups dominate the competition at best and troll the other competitors at worse.
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TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I still remember PC transfers at console launch
they were significantly worse than BG premades destroying noobs.
All I remember is you wrecking face on your sorc! lol1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I suspect many of the times people think they are getting stomp by "cancerous premade groups" intent on doing nothing but harassing PUGs are mostly inexperienced players. PvP has a sharp learning curve and people who are good at it, premade or not, are going to destroy someone who is inexperienced and do it quickly.
BGs are *extremely* competitive and leave little margin for error. So, yes, if I enter one, I will go in with a "cancerous" build because without one, you lose repeatedly, often, and quickly. When I play them, most of the people I come against know what they are doing and a lot of them are *really* good. No matter what system ZoS puts in palce, without PvP expeeince, you're going to get rekt in BGs unless you happen to get lucky and square of against some PUGs, and that is not guaranteed to happen because if I or anyone else who is experienced enters the q, ZoS thinks we are PUGS.
If you want a softer landing spot to get experience in PvP, your best bet is to go to Cyrodiil and on the most populated campaign. Look, I'd love to "take it easy" on newer players and I do that IN CYRODIIL, but not Battlegroups because the action is too fast paced, the margin for error is non-extant, and if I take it easy on a newer player, their 3 teammates will wreck me. That's the way BGs are and ZoS can't change that without a *far* more sophisticated match-system that will still have its flaws.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭I remember a time when getting creamed was an inspiration to do better. It sounds mean, but if you can't take a hard loss then pvp in any game may not be for you...2 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭notimetocare wrote: »I remember a time when getting creamed was an inspiration to do better. It sounds mean, but if you can't take a hard loss then pvp in any game may not be for you...
Getting creamed by a superior player, yes. Getting creamed by a group of guys on voice comms with perfect group composition and gold gear, no. That's just inspiration to not queue anymore.
Listen, pug stomping is for plebs. It sucks for the pugs and it's boring as hell for the premades. Why anyone would want to do it is beyond me. Takes a certain kind of mindset, I suppose.4 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »I remember a time when getting creamed was an inspiration to do better. It sounds mean, but if you can't take a hard loss then pvp in any game may not be for you...
Getting creamed by a superior player, yes. Getting creamed by a group of guys on voice comms with perfect group composition and gold gear, no. That's just inspiration to not queue anymore.
Listen, pug stomping is for plebs. It sucks for the pugs and it's boring as hell for the premades. Why anyone would want to do it is beyond me. Takes a certain kind of mindset, I suppose.
Agreed, you can learn a lot by dueling experienced players, but 4 experienced players on you will melt you3 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Frankly this is to he expected when you implement a 3 way 4v4v4 bg format. Its quite easy to queue up with 3 friends and dominate vs unorganized pugs. Couple that with the fact the player pool is still not strong enough to have a clear divide between premade queues and solo only queues, and creates the grey area of duo and tri groups.
This is why you create intelligent 2 team bgs with 8 players while limiting premade queuing to 4 players. And matchmaking then prioritizes other 4 man > 3 man + solo > 2 duos > 4 solos to fill out the roster on both sides.
When you have well designed objectives that influence / mandate pvp exchanges at any given time while also guaranteeing a loss if objectives are ignored all based around the above algorithm, you have the recipie for a fair, palatable enough bg experience where while premade groups have a decent degree of influence in the outcome of a match, they still are not the dominating factor since there are 4 other players to which variables are created.
So..
When you have such poorly desgined 3 way maps where more often than not, playing the objectives generally means avoiding confrontations coupled with teams being 4 players in size, the rewards for winning being "meh" at best thus most use bgs just to get into quick entertaining scrims and thus deathmatch being the overwhelmingly most popular format.....
You create an environment where no reasonable solution is available.
No, a more strict mmr / elo matchmaking ranked system does not work and you would have to be incredibly naive to believe otherwise. Within a month you would have the most dedicated of players seeing a average of 30 to 40 minute queus easy.. Not even going to mention how insulting it would be to implement ranked with the amount of uncontrollable nonsense that exists in bgs as they exist right now.
Bgs should be larger scale intelligently designed 2 team affairs with maps geogeaphically created specifically for a game type and fine tuned. You limit the influence of premades and you still have an accessible instanced environment for a wide range of skill levels were premades of strong enough players can influence the outcome without it being a hopeless blowout.Edited by exeeter702 on May 22, 2018 9:54PM5 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I completely agree. I only qued solo the other day and was placed with new and average players which turned into a complete slaughter. 40 kills just me alone, and 3 people couldn't put a dent on me. Imagine what an entire coordinated premade group will do. I genuinely felt bad afterwards and haven't qued since.
Please create an MMR system ZOS. I feel like this may turn many inexperienced players away from the game. Or completely remake the battleground system from scratch. There's no shame in it if the game becomes better. Look at WoW's battlegrounds.Edited by Nyladreas on May 23, 2018 7:45AM2 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »Are people not suppose to play together?
No one's ever said you can't play together. Your team can play together. It's just, ideally, your team that plays together should play other teams of friends also playing together.5 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭you have the recipie for a fair, palatable enough bg experience where while premade groups have a decent degree of influence in the outcome of a match, they still are not the dominating factor since there are 4 other players to which variables are created.
That’s just an elaborate way of saying skill should matter less. There is nothing unfair in a PuG vs Premade vs PuG match. Nobody is keeping the PuG team to play as a group, and nobody is keeping them from running cheeselord setups, and nobody is keeping them from getting their own group setup.
I know it’s a shocking thought, but there are people that picked up players they saw perform decently in previous matches to form their own group.
You can’t always cater to the lowest common denominator. The game already does it to a huge extent. 95% of game content is accessible to really everyone. Even BGs are. You get 7k AP no matter if it just stand there afk or were outplayed.
A rating based ranking system would be best, I agree on that. Why ZOS has not done that yet is something I don’t understand. But in the end the issue is the same as with damage proc sets. They are a band aid to artificially raise the skill base line. Which is the wrong way in my opinion.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.4 -
HeathenDeacon✭✭✭I solo Q most of the time and TBh it doesnt really bother me.
the matchmaker seems pretty fair whether vs groups or solos.
the issue is with 3 teams you are only supposed to be winning 1 out of 3 matches so will always seem more unfair than most othr games where there are only 2 teams and you win 1 out of 2 for a balanced mmr.0 -
Namarkas✭✭✭I don't know where you guys find all these premades, last week I spent nearly all my free time in BG and I rarely came across a group, getting put in a group with a bunch of people that are willing to work together? Sure. But a set group seen over and over? Very few times
My thoughts aswell. I ran some bgs this week, got maybe 3 duos I played against in total. And those matches were far from getting stomped all the time.
It was much more annoying to have queue times of 20min+. I'd take the premade any day if I get in instantly, at least this way I get some fighting and AP in the time I otherwise wasted
.
(Edit: I get that some people want to avoid them alltoghether, but the situation doesn't seem nearly as bad as some ppl are making it look like)Edited by Namarkas on May 23, 2018 7:30AM3 -
ShadowMonarch✭✭✭✭The thing that was supposed to focus Premade vs premade and Pug vs Pug doesn't seem to be turned on lol.1 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't know where you guys find all these premades, last week I spent nearly all my free time in BG and I rarely came across a group, getting put in a group with a bunch of people that are willing to work together? Sure. But a set group seen over and over? Very few times
My thoughts aswell. I ran some bgs this week, got maybe 3 duos I played against in total. And those matches were far from getting stomped all the time.
It was much more annoying to have queue times of 20min+. I'd take the premade any day if I get in instantly, at least this way I get some fighting and AP in the time I otherwise wasted.
(Edit: I get that some people want to avoid them alltoghether, but the situation doesn't seem nearly as bad as some ppl are making it look like)
Just lucked out then. I get premades almost all the time. Usually at night though. It's less during the day.0 -
jbjondeaueb17_ESO✭✭✭✭Don't forget neither that pre-made groups are using most of the time the best combination of classes whereas pugs use their every day character.
And we all know that there's huge unbalance in PvP between classes.Pain-Healer - Argonian Templar Healer (EP) - Immortal Redeemer - Gryphon's Heart
Guild : Ghosts and Goblins Target Dummies
Players know me as Jeban3 -
Vostorn✭✭✭✭I've run 2 BG since Summerset. Both were the most balanced I ever had with each of the 3 teams going over 400 points (domination and crazy king).0 -
SixVoltCar✭✭✭The same story in every MMORPG.
Counter-arguments you'll hear:
1) make your own premade
because that's a solution to institutionalized imbalance-- YEAH I WENT THERE
2) just play better
voice chat is OP, it's an organizational deficit, not just a player-skill or team composition one
3) why shouldn't I be able to play with my friends
you should be able to play with or against your friends, see 1 and 2 as to why you can't choose
And the devs inevitably side with the small group of premade guys, which causes all the other players to stop joining, which causes the premade guys to complain about Q-times. So I make a point of not participating in any structured PVP anymore, in any game. Large-team chaos stuff I'll do-- cyrodiil, for example, where I'm just playing for laughs.
Every.
Damned.
Time.Edited by SixVoltCar on May 23, 2018 9:25AM4 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Alternatively, I was in a pre-made group earlier - we were just 4 people from the same trading guild who don't play together usually and don't make up some sort of pro team - and we sucked fairly bad (apols to those I was in group with for saying that). We didn't lose every match though, which is something!Edited by Epona222 on May 23, 2018 9:25AMGM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.1 -
Sotha_Sil✭✭✭✭✭
✭Premades are not the issue. Most premades I encounter suck. Only one or two really good pvp groups stand out. The rest is awful and most of the time my PUG team and I roll over them.
The issue is that people come to BG with no experience and poor gear that will not help them compete against those groups of player who are not always good pvp players but just people teamed together and play the game.
What I have noticed so far is simple :
- You have a low CP in your group => it probably is a lowbie and he will get rekt whatever healing you try to do. There is nothing you can do for him and he will just hurt your team for it... he has not the appropriate gear for pvp and no knowledge of what to do.
- People who don't play the game i.e => capture the flags for the domination, focus the ball for chaosball.. Most of the time, a game is lost because of this.
- People who don't play for the team i.e => they go around like crazy in deathmatch, chasing that one guy who went away instead of helping the team mates who die because of no support.
What is URGENTLY NEEDED IN BG to adress these issues is : Players filtered by CP rank! You have different BGs for different CPs
-Even though CP don't matter in BGs, it just tells people with experience of the game and their class. I know it is not perfect and it has flaws, but it would help DRASTICALLY the PUGs team with players split like this : 0-> 160 CP / 160->500 CP / 501+ CP
FYI : I play alone most of the time in BGs.Edited by Sotha_Sil on May 23, 2018 9:50AMRestoration is a perfectly valid school of magic, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! - Spells and incantations for those with the talent to cast them!1 -
SixVoltCar✭✭✭Premades are not the issue. Most premades I encounter suck. Only one or two really good pvp groups stand out. The rest is awful and most of the time my PUG team and I roll over them.
The issue is that people come to BG with no experience and poor gear that will not help them compete against those groups of player who are not always good pvp players but just people teamed together and play the game.
What I have noticed so far is simple :
- You have a low CP in your group => it probably is a lowbie and he will get rekt whatever healing you try to do. There is nothing you can do for him and he will just hurt your team for it...
- People who don't play the game i.e => capture the flags for the domination, focus the ball for chaosball.. Most of the time, a game is lost because of this
- People who don't play for the team i.e => they go around like crazy in deathmatch, chasing that one guy who went away instead of helping the team mates who die because of no support.
What is URGENTLY NEEDED IN BG to adress these issues is :
- Players filtered by CP rank. Even though CP don't matter in BGs, it just tells people with experience of the game and their class. I know it is not perfect and it has flaws, but it would help DRASTICALLY the PUGs team with players split like this : 0-> 160 CP / 160->500 CP / 501+ CP
Oh look, the "play better" solution.2
