Premades are still ruining BG pug ques

Kel

Feanor wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

When you see the same group of 4 players for the next 5 or 6 matches, when they're from the same guild, when they win the matches 500 40 0, when the player with the highest death total is 3, when they wear gear that synergizes with eachother vs. your teams random mess, when they're 10 points from winning and they hold the relic by thier base so that they can farm kills....then you know you are up against a premade. And yes, they farm AP because organization stomps random.

You don't get additional AP for player kills. They do it because they can, and it's fun for them.

Feanor wrote: »

When you see the same group of 4 players for the next 5 or 6 matches, when they're from the same guild, when they win the matches 500 40 0, when the player with the highest death total is 3, when they wear gear that synergizes with eachother vs. your teams random mess, when they're 10 points from winning and they hold the relic by thier base so that they can farm kills....then you know you are up against a premade. And yes, they farm AP because organization stomps random.

You don't get additional AP for player kills. They do it because they can, and it's fun for them.

Didn't say you get points for it....yet they do it all the same. The point is, never saw a random doing that. It's a *** move, plain and simple.

It's not very different to scroll farming in Cyrodiil. Base spawn camping would be a *** move. This isn't by a long shot.

Sure it is...you said it yourself. They get nothing from it. "Scroll farming" at least gets you AP. And I've seen that backfire more than once...there is no backfire with holding a relic on the verge of a win, just to pad your kill numbers. And as you say, for no real reason. It's a sadistic, pointless type of "fun" at another's expense. And one I've only seen a premade, dominant group doing.
So, it's basically rubbing salt in a wound....not a *** move how, exactly?

Feanor

@jabrone77

I have no horse in this race. I seldom run with a premade group in BGs, and I don't spawn camp or hold relics for attracting easy kills. But what would you prefer? If the game is already over, why do people go there and get killed again and again for the icing on the cake? Its the same phenomenon as with any farming - people just don't learn from it. You see the Proxy Dets being charged (huge red circles), you know the Destro Ults and the push will come any moment - yet people stand stubbornly on the flag even after they have seen the same pattern for the 5th time.

I know BGs are different in that regard as you can't just simply go elsewhere. But to blame the premades isn't a solution either.

Slack

MajBludd wrote: »

Good luck with that, I've seen under 50 bg guilds. Made just to farm pugs

Yea those low level premades with dawnbreaker and meteor are just hilarious

Narvuntien

I was in an under 50 bg today and i swear the two enemy teams were working together. How is that even possible!!!

A group of one team would lead us in and bamn! The other team would pop out of stealth and kill us.

Vizier

I disagree.

jabrone77 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

@vizier my first pvp experience I got to vr 10 or so and jumped into azuras, which at the time was the main vet pvp server. I got squashed repeatedly.

Why, because I jumped into the shark tank thinking because I reached a vet level I'd be on par with the players in Azuras. I was wrong.

Then I found under 50, bwb at the time. It changed my experience for pvp. Loved it.

I know plenty of players, have many who have asked me to join guilds. I don't, because, I'm pvp guilds are cancer. Where most think it's their responsibility to "balance campaigns". Which they usually do the opposite.

So, my point is, if you think rolling pugs helps the overall health of pvp, you are wrong. As you see many saying they won't go back.

Sure, they should give it a try again, but a lot don't do that.

If I go into bgs, I go random for those reasons, to maybe help a new player. At the most I group with 1 other and that's it.

Shrug. I don't have a great deal of sympathy for the type of player that quits over being rolled by a good player or experienced team. It should be a given good teams will be encountered. The player base should be aware of that. That competitive excellence is frowned upon rather than aspired to says more about the player base rather than the player teams you so easily call 'cancer." If getting beaten doesn't reveal a benchmark to strive for then maybe a competitive PvP experience isn't for them.

I can see it now....PUG Only queues for a Small Team Instance. No irony there.

there is nothing competitive about being instant melted by a coordinated team while your team is unorganized. If you care about competition you would separate ques as premades would like fights with other premades, and if not then the motive is to farm easy ap off unorganized players. The majority of the time when I beat a premade is when its a objective game and they are playing it like its deathmatch.

I really don't think "premades" group up for the difference of 5k AP per match. This topic is as old actually as the "OMG tryhards are farming n00bs in Kyne with their gold geared chars". If you're not willing to group yourself or to become a better player BGs never will be enjoyable anyway. And why would you want to play in a "noob queue"? You certainly don't learn anything by avoiding the better players out there.

You are naive then, or you don't play battlegrounds. When you see the same group of 4 players for the next 5 or 6 matches, when they're from the same guild, when they win the matches 500 40 0, when the player with the highest death total is 3, when they wear gear that synergizes with eachother vs. your teams random mess, when they're 10 points from winning and they hold the relic by thier base so that they can farm kills....then you know you are up against a premade. And yes, they farm AP because organization stomps random. Saying that they don't...you either defend this because you do it, or you never set foot in battlegrounds, full stop.
Why do we want a "noob queue"? So at least there's a chance to actually compete for a win. I know, it's crazy....
And what do you learn from constantly losing? You can be a top tier player and still get stomped as a random going against a premade. Battlegrounds are about teamwork. You can't "1vX" in battlegrounds, as much as some players think they can, especially in random groups. Players who queue solo usually do so because they don't have other players willing to PvP, so saying "get your own group" is just words to them. It's not a solution, it's a dismissal.
The few times I got invited to run with 3 players in a premade (for 10 matches) it was night and day. We lost once. And it came down to them wearing gear that synergized and having a healer with them. Not alot of randoms get that.
So, just because you personally don't think that, doesn't change the reality of what actually is.

There's nothing particularly competitive about about dumbing down BG's. IMO it has everything to do with "competition." It raises the bar and those that come through it will have been through the gauntlet. See, if someone gets melted because they aren't in a team and haven't optimized their builds that's on them. Maybe getting melted is indication the player has some skills to build, gear to farm and maybe some friends to make. The same thing happens in PvP, Trials, etc. If what someone is doing isn't cutting it PvP'rs have to go PvE, maybe start dueling. They have to ALTER their behavior and GET BETTER. They develop new builds, play styles and strategies to overcome. Sorry man, It just seems like QQ to me and I don't really see a reason exceptional teams should be punished with a reduced player pool in what is essentially a team sport, and vilified for what they are doing.

I don't care that some don't like to lose and even less if they aren't willing to even try to reassess, improvise and adapt, etc. Running to the forums in this case is just a cop out.

swippy

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

BGs are probably not the place to learn how to PvP though. Cyrodiil is way more forgiving, and duels can teach you much more about yourself.

Cyrodil is a horse simulator and takes long to get back into the fight

When you have a slow horse, yes. Otherwise it’s not as bad as people make it.

i think a lot of timesaving comes from learning to read the map, too.

Huyen

This is exactly why I only pvp to get the skills unlocked on my stamina characters. Pvp right now is build around heavy armor and sword&board wich isnt fun for anyone. Being killed in 2 hits without a fighting chance is crap for us all.

Scorpiodisc

Ajaxduo wrote: »

Why can’t they just make separate queues for Team and Solo? Like...every other game?

Which games have that?

Cously

I been playing BGs since SS launch and very rarely do I get the same opponent or things that look like premade. Sometimes players are just naturally good at working together. That said yes queues should be separated. A temporary workaround is that if you are getting beaten up by the same premade, wait like 5 minutes before queueing again, that will lessen the chances of you being put against them.

Animus-ESO

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

BGs are probably not the place to learn how to PvP though. Cyrodiil is way more forgiving, and duels can teach you much more about yourself.

Cyrodil is a horse simulator and takes long to get back into the fight

The walk makes death meaniful. I think it should be easier to cut people off from spawning in keeps. I find it ridiculous that I can crush a group of players repeatedly and they keep respawning until my resources are exhausted.

Kel

Vizier wrote: »

I disagree.

jabrone77 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

@vizier my first pvp experience I got to vr 10 or so and jumped into azuras, which at the time was the main vet pvp server. I got squashed repeatedly.

Why, because I jumped into the shark tank thinking because I reached a vet level I'd be on par with the players in Azuras. I was wrong.

Then I found under 50, bwb at the time. It changed my experience for pvp. Loved it.

I know plenty of players, have many who have asked me to join guilds. I don't, because, I'm pvp guilds are cancer. Where most think it's their responsibility to "balance campaigns". Which they usually do the opposite.

So, my point is, if you think rolling pugs helps the overall health of pvp, you are wrong. As you see many saying they won't go back.

Sure, they should give it a try again, but a lot don't do that.

If I go into bgs, I go random for those reasons, to maybe help a new player. At the most I group with 1 other and that's it.

Shrug. I don't have a great deal of sympathy for the type of player that quits over being rolled by a good player or experienced team. It should be a given good teams will be encountered. The player base should be aware of that. That competitive excellence is frowned upon rather than aspired to says more about the player base rather than the player teams you so easily call 'cancer." If getting beaten doesn't reveal a benchmark to strive for then maybe a competitive PvP experience isn't for them.

I can see it now....PUG Only queues for a Small Team Instance. No irony there.

there is nothing competitive about being instant melted by a coordinated team while your team is unorganized. If you care about competition you would separate ques as premades would like fights with other premades, and if not then the motive is to farm easy ap off unorganized players. The majority of the time when I beat a premade is when its a objective game and they are playing it like its deathmatch.

I really don't think "premades" group up for the difference of 5k AP per match. This topic is as old actually as the "OMG tryhards are farming n00bs in Kyne with their gold geared chars". If you're not willing to group yourself or to become a better player BGs never will be enjoyable anyway. And why would you want to play in a "noob queue"? You certainly don't learn anything by avoiding the better players out there.

You are naive then, or you don't play battlegrounds. When you see the same group of 4 players for the next 5 or 6 matches, when they're from the same guild, when they win the matches 500 40 0, when the player with the highest death total is 3, when they wear gear that synergizes with eachother vs. your teams random mess, when they're 10 points from winning and they hold the relic by thier base so that they can farm kills....then you know you are up against a premade. And yes, they farm AP because organization stomps random. Saying that they don't...you either defend this because you do it, or you never set foot in battlegrounds, full stop.
Why do we want a "noob queue"? So at least there's a chance to actually compete for a win. I know, it's crazy....
And what do you learn from constantly losing? You can be a top tier player and still get stomped as a random going against a premade. Battlegrounds are about teamwork. You can't "1vX" in battlegrounds, as much as some players think they can, especially in random groups. Players who queue solo usually do so because they don't have other players willing to PvP, so saying "get your own group" is just words to them. It's not a solution, it's a dismissal.
The few times I got invited to run with 3 players in a premade (for 10 matches) it was night and day. We lost once. And it came down to them wearing gear that synergized and having a healer with them. Not alot of randoms get that.
So, just because you personally don't think that, doesn't change the reality of what actually is.

There's nothing particularly competitive about about dumbing down BG's. IMO it has everything to do with "competition." It raises the bar and those that come through it will have been through the gauntlet. See, if someone gets melted because they aren't in a team and haven't optimized their builds that's on them. Maybe getting melted is indication the player has some skills to build, gear to farm and maybe some friends to make. The same thing happens in PvP, Trials, etc. If what someone is doing isn't cutting it PvP'rs have to go PvE, maybe start dueling. They have to ALTER their behavior and GET BETTER. They develop new builds, play styles and strategies to overcome. Sorry man, It just seems like QQ to me and I don't really see a reason exceptional teams should be punished with a reduced player pool in what is essentially a team sport, and vilified for what they are doing.

I don't care that some don't like to lose and even less if they aren't willing to even try to reassess, improvise and adapt, etc. Running to the forums in this case is just a cop out.

Except what you're talking about is team on team play. That would serve if it was in fact, teams playing against teams. But, that's not how it works. You can't adapt or optimize your setup in a random environment.
You are actually proving my point that these two forms of competition need to be separated. It's not open world Cyrodiil, where dueling will actually help you improve...it's team play. One vs. One teaches nothing about how to function in a team environment. It's not about optimizing your individual build either. It's about the synergizes between a TEAMS builds that gives the edge in battlegrounds.
Again, your individual performance means little if your teammates are clueless. A player can get "melted" if he's/she's the only one playing objectives while the others are just running around trying to 1vX other teams. That's only competitive if you're facing actual competition, not rolling over a disorganized pug team with your fully cooperative, highly synergized play off eachother team. It's like an NBA team playing the junior high team. Except the junior high team is just randomly picked and never played together. It's not competitive. Can't alter or change behavior in a random. That's a terrible argument that makes little sense.

Edit: It's not about losing either. Losing and PvP goes hand in hand. It's about getting a opportunity to win once in awhile....something statistically very hard to do when an unorganized team faces a team build around eachother. That cannot be argued. If you truly wanted competition I'd figure you'd want to face teams on your level, not curb stomp...but eh. So, by your logic, exceptional teams are getting penalized by facing other exceptional teams? Tell me how it's about competition again....

Vizier

...Snarf... Make a team, join one, it's not difficult.

...come on... it's about losing. LOL yest it is.

Bhaal5

Lol what make a team.... I thought this game was a solo contest?

templesus

Scorpiodisc wrote: »

Ajaxduo wrote: »

Why can’t they just make separate queues for Team and Solo? Like...every other game?

Which games have that?

You cannot compare ESO's BGs to other game's BGs as the amount of people per team is vastly different. If anything, you would compare ESO's BGs to arenas in other games, in which i can list multiple games. Tera, WoW(Ranked vs Skirmish), SWTOR are just to name a few.

Mister_DMC

Drachenfier wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

I remember a time when getting creamed was an inspiration to do better. It sounds mean, but if you can't take a hard loss then pvp in any game may not be for you...

Getting creamed by a superior player, yes. Getting creamed by a group of guys on voice comms with perfect group composition and gold gear, no. That's just inspiration to not queue anymore.

Listen, pug stomping is for plebs. It sucks for the pugs and it's boring as hell for the premades. Why anyone would want to do it is beyond me. Takes a certain kind of mindset, I suppose.

All my gear is gold for everything... Us players that have been playing for years have amassed a fortune in gear and mats. I go full throttle into any character or build that I want to try. Maybe that's part of the issue?

Kel

Vizier wrote: »

...Snarf... Make a team, join one, it's not difficult.

...come on... it's about losing. LOL yest it is.

Teams still lose, mate. It isn't about losing. Two teams lose every match. It's about a fair chance to win. If you can't understand the difference, there's no hope for you....snarf

Karm1cOne

I've put in about 6 hours of battlegrounds since summerset, mostly solo or 2 man, and I've seen the best matchup since the bgs were introduced. No premade vs pugs, scores that are mostly competetive, and honestly very fun matches. I see a few names repeat, but every game seems to be new faces.

Aesthier

Feanor wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

BGs are probably not the place to learn how to PvP though. Cyrodiil is way more forgiving, and duels can teach you much more about yourself.

Cyrodil is a horse simulator and takes long to get back into the fight

When you have a slow horse, yes. Otherwise it’s not as bad as people make it.

Even with a fast horse, it is still more horse simulator than fight.

Having a fast horse just makes the simulator portion a wee bit less frustrating.

SkillzMFG

I didn't get a premade group since Summerset released...Pretty much dominated every BG except a few where I was grouped with clueless newcomers. How can you be sure they are premade? Do they sync their ults or what? Maybe you've just been outplayed.

Aliyavana

SkillzMFG wrote: »

I didn't get a premade group since Summerset released...Pretty much dominated every BG except a few where I was grouped with clueless newcomers. How can you be sure they are premade? Do they sync their ults or what? Maybe you've just been outplayed.

its my understanding that there is a mmr system in place and having a higher mmr might make you more likely to solo que into premades, I think @Thogard can confirm that?

Aliyavana

still they are ruining bgs with completely one sided matches

AlienatedGoat

Aliyavana wrote: »

still they are ruining bgs with completely one sided matches

Yup.

Saw streams from both Alcast and Gilliam where they were getting completely wrecked by premades over and over. That was enough to keep me from trying them out again.

I wonder how many other prospective BG players are being turned off because of this?

Aliyavana

Phage wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

still they are ruining bgs with completely one sided matches

Yup.

Saw streams from both Alcast and Gilliam where they were getting completely wrecked by premades over and over. That was enough to keep me from trying them out again.

I wonder how many other prospective BG players are being turned off because of this?

Youll still get the posts saying "make new friends and make your own team" but many new potential pvpers will just quit before that happens

BozzyTheDrummer

What is a premade?

Aliyavana

BozzyTheDrummer wrote: »

What is a premade?

When you get 3 other buddies and stop pugs

AlienatedGoat

Aliyavana wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

still they are ruining bgs with completely one sided matches

Yup.

Saw streams from both Alcast and Gilliam where they were getting completely wrecked by premades over and over. That was enough to keep me from trying them out again.

I wonder how many other prospective BG players are being turned off because of this?

Youll still get the posts saying "make new friends and make your own team" but many new potential pvpers will just quit before that happens

Lol, from what I've heard you've got pro premades that have been trolling BGs since Morrowind, and some of them even made sub-50 BG guilds that troll newbies for easy AP ever since AP was made bankable/transferrable.

That's totally fair and makes me want to jump into BGs right away and tell all my friends.

Aliyavana

Phage wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

still they are ruining bgs with completely one sided matches

Yup.

Saw streams from both Alcast and Gilliam where they were getting completely wrecked by premades over and over. That was enough to keep me from trying them out again.

I wonder how many other prospective BG players are being turned off because of this?

Youll still get the posts saying "make new friends and make your own team" but many new potential pvpers will just quit before that happens

Lol, from what I've heard you've got pro premades that have been trolling BGs since Morrowind, and some of them even made sub-50 BG guilds that troll newbies for easy AP ever since AP was made bankable/transferrable.

That's totally fair and makes me want to jump into BGs right away and tell all my friends.

I'm sure the new players that wanted to check out PvP appreciate being turned into effortless ap, esp sub 50 ques

AlienatedGoat

Aliyavana wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

still they are ruining bgs with completely one sided matches

Yup.

Saw streams from both Alcast and Gilliam where they were getting completely wrecked by premades over and over. That was enough to keep me from trying them out again.

I wonder how many other prospective BG players are being turned off because of this?

Youll still get the posts saying "make new friends and make your own team" but many new potential pvpers will just quit before that happens

Lol, from what I've heard you've got pro premades that have been trolling BGs since Morrowind, and some of them even made sub-50 BG guilds that troll newbies for easy AP ever since AP was made bankable/transferrable.

That's totally fair and makes me want to jump into BGs right away and tell all my friends.

I'm sure the new players that wanted to check out PvP appreciate being turned into effortless ap, esp sub 50 ques

Absolutely. I'm never satisfied without a good stomping first thing in the morning.

Aliyavana

gotta love it when you que into a bg and since premades usually que in 4s they start off with 4 people but then the game takes more than half the game to find your 4th person