KingJ wrote: »

I'm ok with it going through cloak and damaging the Nb but it shouldn't break cloak.I'm just saying if it kept a sorc from using shields or templar from purging we would see more out cry but people can't stand NB.

I'd be fine with cloak not breaking on damage, but then all dots would have to tick, else it wouldn't be fair.

What you want if for no dots but oblivion (which goes though everything) to tick, and for it to not break on said damage. Seems like you want it both ways.

thankyourat wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

At the very least, if the DOT should do damage through Cloak, it shouldn't pull you out of it. Getting hit with a Shield Breaker proc doesn't remove your shield, it just goes through the shield, but with Sload's on you using Cloak is a literal waste of magicka, it won't protect you against anything.

This is the key issue.

The DOT doing irresistible damage while cloaked is nasty enough but pulling you out of cloak to expose you to all other damage including other DOTs that are supposed to be suppressible defeats the entire skills purpose completely.

I disagree. The only reason cloak supresses DoT's in the first place is because ZoS couldn't make it so that it damages you without pulling you from cloak. It's a bandaid fix that made cloak overpreform. So I doubt they can even program it to deal damage without pulling you from cloak if they wanted. Currently it does what it does to anyone, which is giving unavoidable damage. Getting damage pulls you from cloak so it's being consistent according to the games rules. I get that it can be annoying, but It won't break cloak, I'm pretty sure about that.

That's not why Cloak supresses dots. It supresses dots because the purge was nerfed. So instead of cloak purging negative effects the base morph now supresses dots. Which was a pretty big Nerf actually for magblade at least. It changed the way I played the game completely.

Cloak at launch didn't have either. But it was so buggy and broken they patched on a total purge, which was overkill and didn't work, I think at one point it was 2 affects, though I could be wrong, and then changed it to a suppression.

A 2 effect purge and no dot immunity would be fine (it wouldn't break though) even still I'd be one of the strongest defenses in game. Invis, untargetable, purge, crit, all for a neat cost that scales well.

ToRelax wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

I'm ok with it going through cloak and damaging the Nb but it shouldn't break cloak.I'm just saying if it kept a sorc from using shields or templar from purging we would see more out cry but people can't stand NB.

It shouldn't break Cloak, no. But that doesn't mean being unable to Cloak on a NB is on the same level as being unable to shield on a Sorc.

I'm all for nerfing Cloak but if this happens we need another defense which allows for a more bruiser oriented playstyle. I've tested med armor on PTS, there's no way to fight a 30k health heavy armor idiot with Sloads and Duroks slotted, it's absurd (and I wouldn't say that I'm playing a glass canon with Bloodspawn + Impreg armor...). Sure, on heavy armor stamina is probably still playable (since everything works with heavy armor somehow...) but that's a boring slow paced playstyle and garbage in open world too (at least on stamblade).

ToRelax wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

I'm ok with it going through cloak and damaging the Nb but it shouldn't break cloak.I'm just saying if it kept a sorc from using shields or templar from purging we would see more out cry but people can't stand NB.

It shouldn't break Cloak, no. But that doesn't mean being unable to Cloak on a NB is on the same level as being unable to shield on a Sorc.

I'm all for nerfing Cloak but if this happens we need another defense which allows for a more bruiser oriented playstyle. I've tested med armor on PTS, there's no way to fight a 30k health heavy armor idiot with Sloads and Duroks slotted, it's absurd (and I wouldn't say that I'm playing a glass canon with Bloodspawn + Impreg armor...). Sure, on heavy armor stamina is probably still playable (since everything works with heavy armor somehow...) but that's a boring slow paced playstyle and garbage in open world too (at least on stamblade).

I'm not sure what argument you're making here - by adding Durok's to the mix you're basically making sure that everyone gets screwed over, not just NBs.

Problem is durok here, not sload. What does sload is countering lingering potions, that's all.

(I'm quite surprise it still break cloak on live, but anyway I'm sure it will be changed in 3 mouths )

KingJ wrote: »

I'm ok with it going through cloak and damaging the Nb but it shouldn't break cloak.I'm just saying if it kept a sorc from using shields or templar from purging we would see more out cry but people can't stand NB.

I mean, it doesn't stop a NB from cloaking, it just rebreaks the cloak and stops the skill from being effective.

Just like it stops Sorc shields from protecting their HP pool, and prevents templar purging from cleansing DoT pressure.


This set is a mess, but the desire to make it a class-based problem is misguided, imo. Oblivion damage is bad on like, every class.

Aedaryl wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

I'm ok with it going through cloak and damaging the Nb but it shouldn't break cloak.I'm just saying if it kept a sorc from using shields or templar from purging we would see more out cry but people can't stand NB.

It shouldn't break Cloak, no. But that doesn't mean being unable to Cloak on a NB is on the same level as being unable to shield on a Sorc.

I'm all for nerfing Cloak but if this happens we need another defense which allows for a more bruiser oriented playstyle. I've tested med armor on PTS, there's no way to fight a 30k health heavy armor idiot with Sloads and Duroks slotted, it's absurd (and I wouldn't say that I'm playing a glass canon with Bloodspawn + Impreg armor...). Sure, on heavy armor stamina is probably still playable (since everything works with heavy armor somehow...) but that's a boring slow paced playstyle and garbage in open world too (at least on stamblade).

I'm not sure what argument you're making here - by adding Durok's to the mix you're basically making sure that everyone gets screwed over, not just NBs.

Problem is durok here, not sload. What does sload is countering lingering potions, that's all.

(I'm quite surprise it still break cloak on live, but anyway I'm sure it will be changed in 3 mouths )

Problem is a petsorc talking about balance...

Just play med armor for once instead on trashtalking to everyone.

ak_pvp wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

I'm ok with it going through cloak and damaging the Nb but it shouldn't break cloak.I'm just saying if it kept a sorc from using shields or templar from purging we would see more out cry but people can't stand NB.

I'd be fine with cloak not breaking on damage, but then all dots would have to tick, else it wouldn't be fair.

What you want if for no dots but oblivion (which goes though everything) to tick, and for it to not break on said damage. Seems like you want it both ways.

thankyourat wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

At the very least, if the DOT should do damage through Cloak, it shouldn't pull you out of it. Getting hit with a Shield Breaker proc doesn't remove your shield, it just goes through the shield, but with Sload's on you using Cloak is a literal waste of magicka, it won't protect you against anything.

This is the key issue.

The DOT doing irresistible damage while cloaked is nasty enough but pulling you out of cloak to expose you to all other damage including other DOTs that are supposed to be suppressible defeats the entire skills purpose completely.

I disagree. The only reason cloak supresses DoT's in the first place is because ZoS couldn't make it so that it damages you without pulling you from cloak. It's a bandaid fix that made cloak overpreform. So I doubt they can even program it to deal damage without pulling you from cloak if they wanted. Currently it does what it does to anyone, which is giving unavoidable damage. Getting damage pulls you from cloak so it's being consistent according to the games rules. I get that it can be annoying, but It won't break cloak, I'm pretty sure about that.

That's not why Cloak supresses dots. It supresses dots because the purge was nerfed. So instead of cloak purging negative effects the base morph now supresses dots. Which was a pretty big Nerf actually for magblade at least. It changed the way I played the game completely.

Cloak at launch didn't have either. But it was so buggy and broken they patched on a total purge, which was overkill and didn't work, I think at one point it was 2 affects, though I could be wrong, and then changed it to a suppression.

A 2 effect purge and no dot immunity would be fine (it wouldn't break though) even still I'd be one of the strongest defenses in game. Invis, untargetable, purge, crit, all for a neat cost that scales well.

Yea I want it both ways no one else defense just stop working when Sload procs so we should keep it consistent.

Not to mentioned if they gave cloak its purge back they would more than likely remove the guaranteed crit.

Problem of oblivion damage in general is the fact that it ignores all build mechanics for defense and thus adds an unpredictable amount of incoming damage to your game experience.

Health bars are limited so anything that eats them without counterplay is a threat. Healing is balanced to deal with that part of incoming damage which is left after mitigation of any kind and not with pure eat-it-or-die damage. So for most builds healing is the means to counter whatever their specific mitigation form does not help against.

Sorcs heal against burst that surpasses their shields while stacking, stambuilds in heavy heal against things that pass block/resistance/los and in medium those things that pass resistance/los/dodge. Every of those defenses has to deal with some form of unmitigated damage like AoE for blocking or undodgeable stuff for rolltards or bleeds for resistances. Shields were an exception as their effectiveness was hardcountered by the amount of incoming damage per second.

Oblivion damage now puts another layer on top of that - a damage form to which vulnerability is not down to a choice the player had when selecting class, playstyle and sets but a choice that the attacker made when zos empowered him to trash his opponent's defensive capabilities by taking him out of the equation.

And this is the definition of bad game design.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

I'm ok with it going through cloak and damaging the Nb but it shouldn't break cloak.I'm just saying if it kept a sorc from using shields or templar from purging we would see more out cry but people can't stand NB.

It shouldn't break Cloak, no. But that doesn't mean being unable to Cloak on a NB is on the same level as being unable to shield on a Sorc.

I'm all for nerfing Cloak but if this happens we need another defense which allows for a more bruiser oriented playstyle. I've tested med armor on PTS, there's no way to fight a 30k health heavy armor idiot with Sloads and Duroks slotted, it's absurd (and I wouldn't say that I'm playing a glass canon with Bloodspawn + Impreg armor...). Sure, on heavy armor stamina is probably still playable (since everything works with heavy armor somehow...) but that's a boring slow paced playstyle and garbage in open world too (at least on stamblade).

I'm not sure what argument you're making here - by adding Durok's to the mix you're basically making sure that everyone gets screwed over, not just NBs.

Problem is durok here, not sload. What does sload is countering lingering potions, that's all.

(I'm quite surprise it still break cloak on live, but anyway I'm sure it will be changed in 3 mouths )

Problem is a petsorc talking about balance...

Just play med armor for once instead on trashtalking to everyone.

Duh, same could be said about you. A nightblade talking about balance. Trashtalking, calling other players idiots for wearing duroks + sload.

Difference is, that I usually play the classes which I talk about while the person I referred to plays nothing than 100% duel cheese (he even plays it in open world and complains that ZOS doesn't balance their game around his "open world" build). Everyone knows that petsorc is grossly overperforming in a duel environment, even Aedaryl knows it: he just wants sorc to be the uncontested king in the game.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

I'm ok with it going through cloak and damaging the Nb but it shouldn't break cloak.I'm just saying if it kept a sorc from using shields or templar from purging we would see more out cry but people can't stand NB.

It shouldn't break Cloak, no. But that doesn't mean being unable to Cloak on a NB is on the same level as being unable to shield on a Sorc.

I'm all for nerfing Cloak but if this happens we need another defense which allows for a more bruiser oriented playstyle. I've tested med armor on PTS, there's no way to fight a 30k health heavy armor idiot with Sloads and Duroks slotted, it's absurd (and I wouldn't say that I'm playing a glass canon with Bloodspawn + Impreg armor...). Sure, on heavy armor stamina is probably still playable (since everything works with heavy armor somehow...) but that's a boring slow paced playstyle and garbage in open world too (at least on stamblade).

I'm not sure what argument you're making here - by adding Durok's to the mix you're basically making sure that everyone gets screwed over, not just NBs.

Problem is durok here, not sload. What does sload is countering lingering potions, that's all.

(I'm quite surprise it still break cloak on live, but anyway I'm sure it will be changed in 3 mouths )

Problem is a petsorc talking about balance...

Just play med armor for once instead on trashtalking to everyone.

Duh, same could be said about you. A nightblade talking about balance. Trashtalking, calling other players idiots for wearing duroks + sload.

Difference is, that I usually play the classes which I talk about while the person I referred to plays nothing than 100% duel cheese (he even plays it in open world and complains that ZOS doesn't balance their game around his "open world" build). Everyone knows that petsorc is grossly overperforming in a duel environment, even Aedaryl knows it: he just wants sorc to be the uncontested king in the game.

Reminds me of 80% of the stamina player base in pvp being some form of stamina 2h/bow dueling build with poison injection carrying them.

Nobody mentions in but in my opinion poison injection is overpowered. 50% health scaling is so strong no matter how you look at it.

That's why all stam classes play with Poison Injection. Oh wait, only Nbs play with a bow. Maybe it's because Nbs are a bit too strong currently?

If I want to create a duel build on my Nb I'll go heavy armor and stack bleeds lol...

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

I'm ok with it going through cloak and damaging the Nb but it shouldn't break cloak.I'm just saying if it kept a sorc from using shields or templar from purging we would see more out cry but people can't stand NB.

It shouldn't break Cloak, no. But that doesn't mean being unable to Cloak on a NB is on the same level as being unable to shield on a Sorc.

I'm all for nerfing Cloak but if this happens we need another defense which allows for a more bruiser oriented playstyle. I've tested med armor on PTS, there's no way to fight a 30k health heavy armor idiot with Sloads and Duroks slotted, it's absurd (and I wouldn't say that I'm playing a glass canon with Bloodspawn + Impreg armor...). Sure, on heavy armor stamina is probably still playable (since everything works with heavy armor somehow...) but that's a boring slow paced playstyle and garbage in open world too (at least on stamblade).

I'm not sure what argument you're making here - by adding Durok's to the mix you're basically making sure that everyone gets screwed over, not just NBs.

Problem is durok here, not sload. What does sload is countering lingering potions, that's all.

(I'm quite surprise it still break cloak on live, but anyway I'm sure it will be changed in 3 mouths )

Problem is a petsorc talking about balance...

Just play med armor for once instead on trashtalking to everyone.

Duh, same could be said about you. A nightblade talking about balance. Trashtalking, calling other players idiots for wearing duroks + sload.

Difference is, that I usually play the classes which I talk about while the person I referred to plays nothing than 100% duel cheese (he even plays it in open world and complains that ZOS doesn't balance their game around his "open world" build). Everyone knows that petsorc is grossly overperforming in a duel environment, even Aedaryl knows it: he just wants sorc to be the uncontested king in the game.

Reminds me of 80% of the stamina player base in pvp being some form of stamina 2h/bow dueling build with poison injection carrying them.

Nobody mentions in but in my opinion poison injection is overpowered. 50% health scaling is so strong no matter how you look at it.

The only stamclass using Bow is Stamnb, all others are using either DW+2h or 1h&s+2h.

And no one gets carried by Poison injection, Maybe carried by incap, cloak or stamnb toolkit but not by Poison injection xD

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

I'm ok with it going through cloak and damaging the Nb but it shouldn't break cloak.I'm just saying if it kept a sorc from using shields or templar from purging we would see more out cry but people can't stand NB.

It shouldn't break Cloak, no. But that doesn't mean being unable to Cloak on a NB is on the same level as being unable to shield on a Sorc.

I'm all for nerfing Cloak but if this happens we need another defense which allows for a more bruiser oriented playstyle. I've tested med armor on PTS, there's no way to fight a 30k health heavy armor idiot with Sloads and Duroks slotted, it's absurd (and I wouldn't say that I'm playing a glass canon with Bloodspawn + Impreg armor...). Sure, on heavy armor stamina is probably still playable (since everything works with heavy armor somehow...) but that's a boring slow paced playstyle and garbage in open world too (at least on stamblade).

I'm not sure what argument you're making here - by adding Durok's to the mix you're basically making sure that everyone gets screwed over, not just NBs.

Problem is durok here, not sload. What does sload is countering lingering potions, that's all.

(I'm quite surprise it still break cloak on live, but anyway I'm sure it will be changed in 3 mouths )

Problem is a petsorc talking about balance...

Just play med armor for once instead on trashtalking to everyone.

I didn't trash talked at all, keep your calm and incap people

And stop spamming medium armor is that weak. You can use medium armor + fortified brass and have better resistance than heavy armor, something a lot of people does.

Stamblade got hurted the most with sload, and as I said, I'm surpise it still breaking cloak on live.

Also, why playing a non meta build make me totaly blind on everything ?

Stop trashtalking please.

ToRelax wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

[...]
ToRelax you don't understand how this game work if you think 40% major defile isn't better than 850 damage per second.

The damage 40% Defile deal to you by cutting your heal is FAR FAR FAR higher than 850 damage per second. Take any burst heal and remove 40% to it and you will see how much "damage" defile did. Take Rally + vigor + HP regen and see how the heal is cutted every 2s by 40%, it will be far more and 1.6k health.

So you think Durok's without Sload is giving you more of an edge against a stamina NB than Sload without Durok's. Right.

Right. When you are cloaking in fight versus a durok user, you still defiled. Fighting a non defile build with sload is 1000 easier than fightning a durok user without sload.

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@Sharee found a few people using sloads yet?

Two.

You by chance only running in large groups or sth?

I seriously can´t imagine why you´d have such a completely different pvp experience than i and virtually everyone i play with has.