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ZOS can we have an ETA for class balance?
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Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sometime just after the sun burns us all in that nova or causes a Fimbul winter
Dont expect changes that meet your definition of balance before then
“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy1 -
Troneon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS will leave Mag Sorcs untouched by nerfs with buffs every patch until the servers go offline while every patch hammering Magicka Templars into nothing but second rate healers.
Edited by Troneon on May 16, 2018 8:30AMPC EU ADMaster Crafter - Anything you need!!High Elf Magicka Templar Healer/DPS/TankTrials / Dungeons / PVP / Everything3 -
Troneon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »At this point, if ZOS came here and actually stated an ETA for class balance, would people believe them? The answer is likely "No ETA" anyway.
Damn it you had to say it didn't you.....
Here we go again...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOCD_Jzre3c PC EU ADMaster Crafter - Anything you need!!High Elf Magicka Templar Healer/DPS/TankTrials / Dungeons / PVP / Everything1 -
Odnoc✭✭✭✭If classes are being excluded from content at end game then the balance is off.. and should be fixed asap..
Honestly to level up a character to end game and find out you cannot join others to play all the content is wrong and broken.. That is what customers want fixed yesterday not to be told no ETA..
Its not rocket science. Make all classes viable through the whole game.
The game prevents you from joining others based on your class? That's news to me.0 -
ZOS_JesCadminGreetings, we've removed several nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and avoid insults. If the thread continues to derail we may have to consider closing it. Thank you for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site2 -
Pwnyridah✭✭✭This must be your first mmo. Class balance is a myth.Edited by Pwnyridah on May 16, 2018 4:03PM1 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If classes are being excluded from content at end game then the balance is off.. and should be fixed asap..
Honestly to level up a character to end game and find out you cannot join others to play all the content is wrong and broken.. That is what customers want fixed yesterday not to be told no ETA..
Its not rocket science. Make all classes viable through the whole game.
I’m pretty sure the classes are viable. I generally don’t like to blame players for these sorts of things, but in this case I feel like it’s the only real answer.
Silly misconceptions spread like wildfire on the forums and in guilds. “Player x does 5% less dps than player y during parses, therefore the entire class is not viable.”
“Using simulation software, we found class x does 10% less dps than class y, therefore class x is not viable.”
“Never mind the utility that a class can bring to a group that enhances the entire group’s effectiveness, dps and survivability, we focus strictly on simulated situations for pure dps calculations per character as a way of determining whether or not a class is ‘good’”.
Seriously, it’s silly. There will never be true class balance because the min/maxers will always find a way to tease out that little extra dps from a class over another without accounting for other variables like mechanics and group enhancing utilities.Edited by srfrogg23 on May 16, 2018 6:06PM2 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭If classes are being excluded from content at end game then the balance is off.. and should be fixed asap..
Honestly to level up a character to end game and find out you cannot join others to play all the content is wrong and broken.. That is what customers want fixed yesterday not to be told no ETA..
Its not rocket science. Make all classes viable through the whole game.
I’m pretty sure the classes are viable. I generally don’t like to blame players for these sorts of things, but in this case I feel like it’s the only real answer.
Silly misconceptions spread like wildfire on the forums and in guilds. “Player x does 5% less dps than player y during parses, therefore the entire class is not viable.”
“Using simulation software, we found class x does 10% less dps than class y, therefore class x is not viable.”
“Never mind the utility that a class can bring to a group that enhances the entire group’s effectiveness, dps and survivability, we focus strictly on simulated situations for pure dps calculations as a way of determining whether or not a class is ‘good’”.
Seriously, it’s silly. There will never be true class balance because the min/maxers will always find a way to tease out that little extra dps from a class over another without accounting for other variables like mechanics and group enhancing utilities.
The problem is that utility cannot accurately be converted into statistics, or, the utility is just another thing converted into DPS, or, utility isn't enough of a thing in this game. Okay, maybe there are several problems. Take your pick.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Greetings, we've removed several nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and avoid insults. If the thread continues to derail we may have to consider closing it. Thank you for your understanding.
Seriously, why do all the threads that need an answer get trolled by a moderator?
Is it that hard to get a community rep in here to answer a serious and legitimate question that most of the people here want answered?
We were promised class balance changes in the PTS, and that didn't happen. We were promised that the Class Reps system would impact the PTS, and that didn't happen.
When are we going to see these changes that were promised?PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa5 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Greetings, we've removed several nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and avoid insults. If the thread continues to derail we may have to consider closing it. Thank you for your understanding.
Seriously, why do all the threads that need an answer get trolled by a moderator?
Is it that hard to get a community rep in here to answer a serious and legitimate question that most of the people here want answered?
We were promised class balance changes in the PTS, and that didn't happen. We were promised that the Class Reps system would impact the PTS, and that didn't happen.
When are we going to see these changes that were promised?
ZOS is a big team of people working together, so the community reps might not always have the relevant info, at least not right away. They could be looking into it with other parts of the team as we speak, or might not be able to share it yet because a more official announcement is yet to come. A third possibility is that they don't really have an ETA, and will just let us know when a more accurate date comes up. It may just even be the case that someone in the thread already gave an adequate answer.
Point is, it's good to ask, but it's unfair to assume that they both know and are required to answer us.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Greetings, we've removed several nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and avoid insults. If the thread continues to derail we may have to consider closing it. Thank you for your understanding.
Seriously, why do all the threads that need an answer get trolled by a moderator?
Is it that hard to get a community rep in here to answer a serious and legitimate question that most of the people here want answered?
We were promised class balance changes in the PTS, and that didn't happen. We were promised that the Class Reps system would impact the PTS, and that didn't happen.
When are we going to see these changes that were promised?
ZOS is a big team of people working together, so the community reps might not always have the relevant info, at least not right away. They could be looking into it with other parts of the team as we speak, or might not be able to share it yet because a more official announcement is yet to come. A third possibility is that they don't really have an ETA, and will just let us know when a more accurate date comes up. It may just even be the case that someone in the thread already gave an adequate answer.
Point is, it's good to ask, but it's unfair to assume that they both know and are required to answer us.
No, it's not unfair. They literally hired three community reps for just this task. To answer questions and do community outreach.
If they don't know, then they need to say so. But they need to do their job. It's their job to communicate.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa3 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If classes are being excluded from content at end game then the balance is off.. and should be fixed asap..
Honestly to level up a character to end game and find out you cannot join others to play all the content is wrong and broken.. That is what customers want fixed yesterday not to be told no ETA..
Its not rocket science. Make all classes viable through the whole game.
I’m pretty sure the classes are viable. I generally don’t like to blame players for these sorts of things, but in this case I feel like it’s the only real answer.
Silly misconceptions spread like wildfire on the forums and in guilds. “Player x does 5% less dps than player y during parses, therefore the entire class is not viable.”
“Using simulation software, we found class x does 10% less dps than class y, therefore class x is not viable.”
“Never mind the utility that a class can bring to a group that enhances the entire group’s effectiveness, dps and survivability, we focus strictly on simulated situations for pure dps calculations as a way of determining whether or not a class is ‘good’”.
Seriously, it’s silly. There will never be true class balance because the min/maxers will always find a way to tease out that little extra dps from a class over another without accounting for other variables like mechanics and group enhancing utilities.
The problem is that utility cannot accurately be converted into statistics, or, the utility is just another thing converted into DPS, or, utility isn't enough of a thing in this game. Okay, maybe there are several problems. Take your pick.
Therein lies a problem of its own.
“The utility that a class brings is difficult to quantify, therefore it should be ignored.”
I strongly disagree with that notion. It is a notion that is all too popular amongst the min/maxing endgame raiding types, imo. Unfortunately, when developers listen to those kinds of sentiments, what we as customers see is the eventual gutting of classes, to streamline them all to bring them all into line with the dps meta. It’s a crappy thing to have happen to an RPG. Then everything just becomes bland and uniform across the board.
Essentially, class identity becomes cosmetic only for the sake of statistical parity surrounding a single play style.Edited by srfrogg23 on May 16, 2018 6:22PM3 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Greetings, we've removed several nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and avoid insults. If the thread continues to derail we may have to consider closing it. Thank you for your understanding.
Seriously, why do all the threads that need an answer get trolled by a moderator?
Is it that hard to get a community rep in here to answer a serious and legitimate question that most of the people here want answered?
We were promised class balance changes in the PTS, and that didn't happen. We were promised that the Class Reps system would impact the PTS, and that didn't happen.
When are we going to see these changes that were promised?
ZOS is a big team of people working together, so the community reps might not always have the relevant info, at least not right away. They could be looking into it with other parts of the team as we speak, or might not be able to share it yet because a more official announcement is yet to come. A third possibility is that they don't really have an ETA, and will just let us know when a more accurate date comes up. It may just even be the case that someone in the thread already gave an adequate answer.
Point is, it's good to ask, but it's unfair to assume that they both know and are required to answer us.
No, it's not unfair. They literally hired three community reps for just this task. To answer questions and do community outreach.
If they don't know, then they need to say so. But they need to do their job. It's their job to communicate.
PR is a lot more complicated sometimes than that, but again, it's quite fair to ask that of them. It's just unfair to say that it's required. ZOS is after all a private company.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭If classes are being excluded from content at end game then the balance is off.. and should be fixed asap..
Honestly to level up a character to end game and find out you cannot join others to play all the content is wrong and broken.. That is what customers want fixed yesterday not to be told no ETA..
Its not rocket science. Make all classes viable through the whole game.
I’m pretty sure the classes are viable. I generally don’t like to blame players for these sorts of things, but in this case I feel like it’s the only real answer.
Silly misconceptions spread like wildfire on the forums and in guilds. “Player x does 5% less dps than player y during parses, therefore the entire class is not viable.”
“Using simulation software, we found class x does 10% less dps than class y, therefore class x is not viable.”
“Never mind the utility that a class can bring to a group that enhances the entire group’s effectiveness, dps and survivability, we focus strictly on simulated situations for pure dps calculations as a way of determining whether or not a class is ‘good’”.
Seriously, it’s silly. There will never be true class balance because the min/maxers will always find a way to tease out that little extra dps from a class over another without accounting for other variables like mechanics and group enhancing utilities.
The problem is that utility cannot accurately be converted into statistics, or, the utility is just another thing converted into DPS, or, utility isn't enough of a thing in this game. Okay, maybe there are several problems. Take your pick.
Therein lies a problem of its own.
“The utility that a class brings is difficult to quantify, therefore it should be ignored.”
I strongly disagree with that notion. It is a notion that is all too popular amongst the min/maxing endgame raiding types, imo. Unfortunately, when developers listen to those kinds of sentiments, what we as customers see is the eventual gutting of classes, to streamline them all to bring them all into line with the dps meta. It’s a crappy thing to have happen to an RPG. Then everything just becomes bland and uniform across the board.
Essentially, class identity becomes cosmetic only for the sake of statistical parity surrounding a single play style.
I like this guy. +1 to you, @srfrogg23@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Greetings, we've removed several nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and avoid insults. If the thread continues to derail we may have to consider closing it. Thank you for your understanding.
Seriously, why do all the threads that need an answer get trolled by a moderator?
Is it that hard to get a community rep in here to answer a serious and legitimate question that most of the people here want answered?
We were promised class balance changes in the PTS, and that didn't happen. We were promised that the Class Reps system would impact the PTS, and that didn't happen.
When are we going to see these changes that were promised?
ZOS is a big team of people working together, so the community reps might not always have the relevant info, at least not right away. They could be looking into it with other parts of the team as we speak, or might not be able to share it yet because a more official announcement is yet to come. A third possibility is that they don't really have an ETA, and will just let us know when a more accurate date comes up. It may just even be the case that someone in the thread already gave an adequate answer.
Point is, it's good to ask, but it's unfair to assume that they both know and are required to answer us.
No, it's not unfair. They literally hired three community reps for just this task. To answer questions and do community outreach.
If they don't know, then they need to say so. But they need to do their job. It's their job to communicate.
PR is a lot more complicated sometimes than that, but again, it's quite fair to ask that of them. It's just unfair to say that it's required. ZOS is after all a private company.
It's not unfair. Community Reps were hired for one job - communicate with the players on behalf of the devs. Therefore, it is required.
It's not that difficult to respond to threads, especially when they're on the first page the whole day, and during business hours.
Being a private company has nothing to do with it. You can't defend their silence with this.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0 -
Abysswarrior45✭✭✭✭I personally find the current balance the best it's ever been since I started playing 3 years ago. I mean there are some underpowered and overpowered setups, but nothing compared to what there was before
The game isn't balanced around player skill anymore. Its balanced around gear. Thats not balanced imo.0 -
MinarasLaure✭✭✭✭3 pages, 77 posts and the only time someone from zos showed up was to clean the thread.
Guess I have my answer.1 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Greetings, we've removed several nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and avoid insults. If the thread continues to derail we may have to consider closing it. Thank you for your understanding.
This isn't directed at you specifically and Yes I am aware that the post in question was a scripted one its rather obvious as i've seen the exact same ZOS post on too many threads;
But as far as being nonconstructive, I would say that the lack of communication from the dev team to the community is more non-constructive than a lot of the comments that get removed on this forum.
Just saying "we're listening and we want feedback from you" or some other stereotypical response just isn't good enough, we need ACTUAL talk between players and devs beyond the odd panel that occurs each year. Break the fourth wall for once...sheesh.
The vast majority of the time there are rarely responses from the devs in comparison to player questions regardless of how "silly" or "toxic" they might be especially in comparison too the amount of "we have removed some comments" post from ZOS employees on this forum. The dev team needs to be retroactive. Simply skimming the forum and not responding isn't enough either. Its extremely frustrating for the playerbase.
IF the devs and players talked on here far more regularly the game would be in a better place and a middle ground between design and player opinion can and will be found thats how dialogue works between two parties. If people are going to skim the forum from ZOS then at least send this message back too the devs.Edited by xeNNNNN on May 17, 2018 12:32AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
akl77✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don’t balance class too often, you’re always pleasing some and pissing some off. Tiny adjustments once a year is enough. Fix your bug and game instead of focusing on balance.Pc na0 -
ZOS_GregoryVmodGreetings, we've removed several nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and avoid insults. If the thread continues to derail we may have to consider closing it. Thank you for your understanding.
Seriously, why do all the threads that need an answer get trolled by a moderator?
Is it that hard to get a community rep in here to answer a serious and legitimate question that most of the people here want answered?
We were promised class balance changes in the PTS, and that didn't happen. We were promised that the Class Reps system would impact the PTS, and that didn't happen.
When are we going to see these changes that were promised?
Greetings,
The forum moderators are just that, forum moderators. Often we're not in a position to answer those questions because we simply do not have the information, or we know the generalities but not the specifics. It's also worth noting that the forum moderation team operates across all of Bethesda's forums, so while we keep apprised of the games we cover, there are a lot of them.
We are able to more actively assist with some support questions, and we post more frequently in this regard in the Customer Support section. Much of the information we provide is actually available on the help site.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on May 17, 2018 2:11AMThe Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IF the devs and players talked on here far more regularly the game would be in a better place and a middle ground between design and player opinion can and will be found thats how dialogue works between two parties. If people are going to skim the forum from ZOS then at least send this message back too the devs.
There's honestly two sides to this.
In part, you're right. More communication would help deal with some of the anxiety we see in the community. In particular, there are a few developers I'd love to see on the forums more. They've got pretty clearly articulated reasons for some of the decisions, and also for some of the times they don't change things.
On the other side, there's always stuff like that infamous line from Rich. Interact with, any community, for an extended period of time, and you're going to say something stupid, or out of line. If you're not speaking from a position of authority, then everyone kinda laughs it off, and moves on with their life. However, when you are one of the people calling the shots, this has a real capacity for taking a nothing story and setting the place on fire.
To be clear, public communications is a skillset, all its own. That is @ZOS_GinaBruno's job, and she does it quite well. However, it dealing with the public, even via something like the forums, is deceptively difficult. It looks easy, but, it is a situation with few upsides and many pitfalls.
I mean, there is a middle ground. The notes on balance changes could certainly be more verbose. With more articulation for exactly why those specific changes are being made, and what the overall goals are in setting those up. With that in mind, it's probably also pretty important to remember that the overall design decisions aren't being made for your benefit, but for the overall health of the game as a whole.0 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Greetings, we've removed several nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and avoid insults. If the thread continues to derail we may have to consider closing it. Thank you for your understanding.
Seriously, why do all the threads that need an answer get trolled by a moderator?
Is it that hard to get a community rep in here to answer a serious and legitimate question that most of the people here want answered?
We were promised class balance changes in the PTS, and that didn't happen. We were promised that the Class Reps system would impact the PTS, and that didn't happen.
When are we going to see these changes that were promised?
ZOS is a big team of people working together, so the community reps might not always have the relevant info, at least not right away. They could be looking into it with other parts of the team as we speak, or might not be able to share it yet because a more official announcement is yet to come. A third possibility is that they don't really have an ETA, and will just let us know when a more accurate date comes up. It may just even be the case that someone in the thread already gave an adequate answer.
Point is, it's good to ask, but it's unfair to assume that they both know and are required to answer us.
No, it's not unfair. They literally hired three community reps for just this task. To answer questions and do community outreach.
If they don't know, then they need to say so. But they need to do their job. It's their job to communicate.
PR is a lot more complicated sometimes than that, but again, it's quite fair to ask that of them. It's just unfair to say that it's required. ZOS is after all a private company.
It's not unfair. Community Reps were hired for one job - communicate with the players on behalf of the devs. Therefore, it is required.
It's not that difficult to respond to threads, especially when they're on the first page the whole day, and during business hours.
Being a private company has nothing to do with it. You can't defend their silence with this.ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »Greetings, we've removed several nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and avoid insults. If the thread continues to derail we may have to consider closing it. Thank you for your understanding.
Seriously, why do all the threads that need an answer get trolled by a moderator?
Is it that hard to get a community rep in here to answer a serious and legitimate question that most of the people here want answered?
We were promised class balance changes in the PTS, and that didn't happen. We were promised that the Class Reps system would impact the PTS, and that didn't happen.
When are we going to see these changes that were promised?
Greetings,
The forum moderators are just that, forum moderators. Often we're not in a position to answer those questions because we simply do not have the information, or we know the generalities but not the specifics. It's also worth noting that the forum moderation team operates across all of Bethesda's forums, so while we keep apprised of the games we cover, there are a lot of them.
We are able to more actively assist with some support questions, and we post more frequently in this regard in the Customer Support section. Much of the information we provide is actually available on the help site.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-
Sometimes it's helpful to listen instead of ignoring others' input. You'll often find that other people have useful information.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »IF the devs and players talked on here far more regularly the game would be in a better place and a middle ground between design and player opinion can and will be found thats how dialogue works between two parties. If people are going to skim the forum from ZOS then at least send this message back too the devs.
There's honestly two sides to this.
In part, you're right. More communication would help deal with some of the anxiety we see in the community. In particular, there are a few developers I'd love to see on the forums more. They've got pretty clearly articulated reasons for some of the decisions, and also for some of the times they don't change things.
On the other side, there's always stuff like that infamous line from Rich. Interact with, any community, for an extended period of time, and you're going to say something stupid, or out of line. If you're not speaking from a position of authority, then everyone kinda laughs it off, and moves on with their life. However, when you are one of the people calling the shots, this has a real capacity for taking a nothing story and setting the place on fire.
To be clear, public communications is a skillset, all its own. That is @ZOS_GinaBruno's job, and she does it quite well. However, it dealing with the public, even via something like the forums, is deceptively difficult. It looks easy, but, it is a situation with few upsides and many pitfalls.
I mean, there is a middle ground. The notes on balance changes could certainly be more verbose. With more articulation for exactly why those specific changes are being made, and what the overall goals are in setting those up. With that in mind, it's probably also pretty important to remember that the overall design decisions aren't being made for your benefit, but for the overall health of the game as a whole.
As I previously worked in administration and moderating various communities in ESL years back I do fully understand what you're putting across and by no means Did I ever state that it was easy or implied that it is easy the community is enormous and the forums are just a small part of it but even that can be taxing. However - there are developers who are extremely active on the forums in the industry, why? because they know the customer is a lot smarter than the dev teams give them credit for. Behind all the rage threads and frustrations there is a point a point that people need too see especially the people developing the game.
I am also aware that the games health takes precedence over one individuals view of the game which is exactly what I was getting it...the overall health of the game is always decided from the view of the developers and what the community experiences, without the community there is no game just a bunch of code and clay meshes and textures i.e what the developers make on paper seems good but in practice its bad and could of been avoided by a certain amount of dialogue but is left in the game regardless of whether or not its a good thing or a bad thing.
As far as the whole pitfall and wildfire "what if" talk which honestly annoys me because if you're afraid to make mistakes then you cannot learn anything from them and theres no reward without risk and thats true with everything in life. Making developers for video games that cater to communities of millions keep their mouths shut and never talk because they are afraid of having a PR nightmare is foolish, yes its a business mentality and such but even in business you have to take risks.
No business became profitable by being afraid of "what if" thats politics more than business. (Just to note the forums is like 10% of the community and even then if there was a "disagreement" then only around 5% would even be mad and the other half wouldn't or just wouldn't care) in the general scale of things the quantitative risk is low.
Alls I want is the development team to actively (within reason) be on these forums when they can and post the dev teams view of the the changes they've made BEYOND developer comments (which are honestly boils down too "we didn't like A because B") which have no depth too them whatsoever, they also need to be open to criticism because they do not play nearly as much as their players, the players really do know what is fair and what isn't whats balanced and what isnt simply because they do play as much as they do and they should discuss it with them. Do they have to take it to heart? no. Do they have to change anything? No. Do they need to realise why people are getting frustrated with the game? Yes. This is where the "dialogue" part comes in. The player base needs to understand the dev teams mentality and view as much as the dev team needs to understand the players view. It wont be perfect but a robust increase in dialogue can help that.
I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, I am simply saying that what you have said is being defied by other companies right now as we speak. Ex: Overwatch (Jeff Kaplan and Geoff Goodman have actually done exactly what I want ESO devs to do), CDPR and to even some extent monolith but monolith is somewhat of a......half truth.
I mean Even PvP has virtually no dialogue at all which has fostered a huge amount of resentment towards the devs in the pvp community.Edited by xeNNNNN on May 17, 2018 4:49PMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
I don’t think there’s anything fallacious about it at all.
What you basically said
"It is impossible to get true balance without homogenization"
That is markedly false.
It's called a Divine Incredulity fallacy. Just because you can't imagine how it would work or is possible doesn't mean it isn't. I can envision an infinite number of ways it could be balanced and not homogeneous.
Likely given ZOS's track record? No. But entirely possible.1 -
If a utility is only needed if things are done poorly, it can be disregarded.
Example:
Say there's a mechanic that can be avoided altogether with proper positioning or you could just mitigate it with a group shield. The mob is immune to damage during this mechanic. Someone who brings a lot of overshield might look like they bring utility, but really it's unnecessary because you should and can avoid it anyways, so the utility is worth 0 to me. Could it save us in that one instance people mess up? Sure. But I'd rather then just not make mistakes and honestly wipe until we get it down properly instead of using a crutch.0 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »I don’t think there’s anything fallacious about it at all.
What you basically said
"It is impossible to get true balance without homogenization"
That is markedly false.
It's called a Divine Incredulity fallacy. Just because you can't imagine how it would work or is possible doesn't mean it isn't. I can envision an infinite number of ways it could be balanced and not homogeneous.
Likely given ZOS's track record? No. But entirely possible.
To be fair (and I agree with your point) I think he's working off a different definition of "balance". This is the point of contention, not if his statement is true or false, because I think, by his definition, it is in fact true.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don’t balance class too often, you’re always pleasing some and pissing some off. Tiny adjustments once a year is enough. Fix your bug and game instead of focusing on balance.
seems an odd prespective too have. I haven't encountered very many bugs in the last year or so. Theres been some but thats purely down too the phasing in of NPCs and lag really thats it.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Greetings, we've removed several nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and avoid insults. If the thread continues to derail we may have to consider closing it. Thank you for your understanding.
Seriously, why do all the threads that need an answer get trolled by a moderator?
Is it that hard to get a community rep in here to answer a serious and legitimate question that most of the people here want answered?
We were promised class balance changes in the PTS, and that didn't happen. We were promised that the Class Reps system would impact the PTS, and that didn't happen.
When are we going to see these changes that were promised?
I've asked a few times in the past to have seperate Z icons for moderators and actual staff members, but of course it's been looked at as much as class balance.
Like, just give mods a Z box that is all green or whatever and give the staff the red Z black box, so we know whether a thread is worth clicking on due to an actual staff response.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
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