brandonv516 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Are we missing the bigger picture here...

Zos created several rule-sets regarding damage ... they did this a while back. Whether you personally agree or disagree with these rule-sets is not the issue here... the issue is one of consistency and fairness in applying these rule-sets.
Anyone that's been around a while probably knows many of these rule-sets (one example is that proc sets can't crit; another example is multiplicative vs additive damage, etc.).

Among the rule-sets established by Zos included what should/should not break cloak and DOTs are NOT supposed to break cloak.

So now we have an armor set that causes a DOT. The fact that the type of DOT is oblivion damage is irrelevant to the issue. The bigger picture is that: a.) there is a DOT in the game that is breaking cloak; b.) a DOT breaking cloak violates the established rule-set set up by ZOS; and c.) nothing is being done to correct it, nor have we received an official 'it's being looked into' statement from ZOS.

My point is NOT about cloak being able to / not being able to suppress the oblivion damage dot (I think we all understand the uniqueness of oblivion damage). My point IS about a DOT being able to break cloak, something that totally goes against ZOS's rule-set. Suffering damage is one thing ... breaking cloak is something else altogether.

IMO the bigger issue is a game developer indiscriminately choosing when their rule-sets will or will not be applied (or at least giving the appearance of doing so). It doesn't send the right message to the player base.

Cloak breaks on damage.

Cloak prevents dots from hitting.

Shield prevents dots from hitting.

Oblivion is prevented by nothing, as such, not prevented by cloak or shields.

Cloak breaks on oblivion damage if it can hit.

^^^. This is correct, oblivion damage cannot be suppressed or mitigated. Not by armor, shields, dodging, or cloak.

You CAN reduce the pain with the DOT damage reduction CP, but that’s it. So unless someone is rocking full thaumaturge you shouldn’t take a full 5-6K.

Privilege, is when someone has things so much better than anyone else that they assume that things should always be that way. It’s human nature to want to keep it, but in this case nothing is going to change how the sload set works.

It's not about privilege, it's about the game's consistency. Many things in this game are not consistent.

And FYI you are providing nothing but unsubstantiated information to the community by saying "nothing is going to change how the sload set works".

I agree a lot isn't consistent, but this is. Oblivion is the be all end all counter, it trumps all. Nothing stops it damaging, and since cloak is badly coded to break on any damage, but dots are suppressed, hence, oblivion which can't be suppressed at all breaks it. Not having cloak break on a certain kind of damage would.e inconsistent, because oblivion hitting guaranteed is consistent.

I mean, oblivion can even be used to kill the invincible monsters at IC Bridge.

Hm, new nightblade heal is looking better with this insight

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

The invisibility from Cloak has been over performing for a very long time and it’s counters are typically insufficient. This is coming from a long time NB player. Sloads is an excellent addition to the game, and NBs still have many ways to deal with Sloads. You can time your Cloak for when Sloads expires, or you can use dark Cloak instead, or you can slot more hots.

In a way, Sloads is like a light shield breaker vs overpowered defensive mechanics like cloaking, permablocking, perma shielding, perma rolling, etc.

Poor players will whine about Sloads because they won’t be able to crutch as hard on these overpowered defensive mechanics, but good players will adapt.

Ok, yes, some counters to cloak are just bad (looking at you, expert hunter and morphs), but others are stupidly strong such as detect pots in groups (which rend a skill useless, no matter how many times you mash the button) or conspicous poisons.

In the end NBs have become a pain in the ass not because of cloak, but because the lag in PVP is so bad, most players realize they were attacked from cloack 1 second before they die

The question is, is this new set the way to solve cloak from the ganked side? I don't think so. Considering that the set has a 10% proc chance and that works on dmg done on one side, and that now 2H weapons count as 2 pieces, we have that stamblades (and some mageblades) ganks are gona become worst than before. Sure, against a group is gonna be easier if someone is using sload, but any NBs fighting a decent group is dead, because those groups always have a detect pot guy. Bad groups now will have it easier, that's quite clear. So NBs would have 2 options to play against sload:

1- Picking solo guys and killing them as fast as possible, avoiding groups
2- Playing in a group and picking their preys.

At the end, nothing changes. The lag that allows a NB to execute from stealth will remain the same.

Sload is gonna be a pain in the ass for the rest of the classes, considering it should proc skoria. For good NBs it won't make any difference. And there are a lot of those running around since last patches.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The only thing I'm worried about is what happens when you are fighting 3 or 4 people and you can't Cloak. 1v1 I really don't see this set being a problem for nightblades (Cloak is kind of useless 1v1 anyway) but it will sure make open world almost impossible if someone is using this set.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Nightblade will either have to slot purge or reconsider their playstyle.
Though not everyone will use this set and it won't always be on you either. I think people will use this to make the Nightblade meta go extinct until most meta NB's are too afraid to play Nightblade anymore and only the adapted good and decent remain. Just speculating here, but this set alone might bring a shift in meta and I'm honestly going to miss this meta.

Spending 5k magicka on a stamina toon to purge a dot which can't be purged. Have you ever played something which isn't maximum duel cheese? With 60k magicka and hiding behind three pets you can handle Sloads, on a medium armor build (doesn't matter which class it is) you can't, especially not as soon as Defile hits you.

Be happy that nb gets destroyed while sorc will be god tier and enjoy it until your class gets destroyed as well. Everybody knows this will happen, even the forum sorcs do. When the time comes I'll gonna explain you as well how to "adapt" to some stupid *** on a class which I don't play.

Now you know exactly how we sorcs felt when Shieldbreaker went live.
Karma.

You know nightblades have to deal with shield breaker as well. Most magblades use a damage shield as their main defense. Funny thing about shieldbreaker users is they also tend to run mark target as well.

Please. I've heard it all.

"Cloak is our main defense!" "Annulment is!" "Dodge!" "Strife HoTs!" "Healing Ward burst heal!" etc...
Nightblades are so touchy and twist perception however they see fit.

The truth is ALL of those make an NB's main defense.
You won't be hit by Sload's as hard as sorcs are by Shieldbreaker therefore.

But you WILL experience how much it sucks to have an important aspect of your class being countered all the time with no counterplay.
You will experience how unhelpful the community's responses to your issues are and you will experience total neglect from ZOS' side.

And don't you come here and complain with logic and experience. We sorcs did and got mocked. Now it's your turn, and what makes this all the more delightful is that you brought this upon yourselves.


[generally speaking, not specific to you, also refuse to use it myself]

Nightblades still deflect to shields every time their precious cloak is mentioned. They know countless people are going to slot this set just to mess with them. I personally am not going to but that doesn't mean I'm not going to not enjoy the benefits that it will bring to the table.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

But you WILL experience how much it sucks to have an important aspect of your class being countered all the time with no counterplay.

You WILL experience? Like, are you serious? Unlike shield users, NB's have been experiencing it every day since the game has been released. There are so many things that can take a NB out of cloak compared to the one(!) set that goes through shields the comparison is not even this >< little accurate.

*shakes head*

And sload is fine. For all practical purposes, It will increase the cases where my NB's cloak failed to hide me maybe by 0.5%, if that.

Qbiken wrote: »

Seems like different sources of Sload´s stack (aka multiple people wearing the set). This has me worried.

Honestly, i would be surprised if i ran into two sload users during a single week, much less during a single fight.

Judging purely by how often i see shieldbreaker used against my shield when im running a class that uses one.

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Seems like different sources of Sload´s stack (aka multiple people wearing the set). This has me worried.

Honestly, i would be surprised if i ran into two sload users during a single week, much less during a single fight.

Judging purely by how often i see shieldbreaker used against my shield when im running a class that uses one.

Shieldbreaker - singlepurpose.

Sload - good against literally everything because no defense works against it (no cloak, no purge, no shield).

It´s bis for every singletarget build stamina and magica alike - especially if you can access defile in any form or shape.

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Seems like different sources of Sload´s stack (aka multiple people wearing the set). This has me worried.

Honestly, i would be surprised if i ran into two sload users during a single week, much less during a single fight.

Judging purely by how often i see shieldbreaker used against my shield when im running a class that uses one.

Shieldbreaker - singlepurpose.

Sload - good against literally everything because no defense works against it (no cloak, no purge, no shield).

It´s bis for every singletarget build stamina and magica alike - especially if you can access defile in any form or shape.

I disagree. Its a weak DOT whose only saving grace is the fact that oblivion damage goes through mitigation.

Weak dot??? It's close to the non crit value of vigor for most builds(the best stamina heal by far)

Sload: 850 damage/second. 10% chance to proc.
Viper: 1600 damage/second. 100% chance to proc.

Like i said. Only saving grace is the oblivion damage type.

Sharee wrote: »

Sload: 850 damage/second. 10% chance to proc.
Viper: 1600 damage/second. 100% chance to proc.

Like i said. Only saving grace is the oblivion damage type.

As the previous poster correctly pointed out, you didn’t calculate Battle Spirit and mitigation. Both affect every damage except oblivion damage. Oblivion damage is not the saving grace - it’s the main strength of the set.

glavius wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Sload: 850 damage/second. 10% chance to proc.
Viper: 1600 damage/second. 100% chance to proc.

Like i said. Only saving grace is the oblivion damage type.

Viper after battle spirit = 800/second.
Viper after battle spirit and 20% mitigation = 640/second.

10% proc chance is quite a lot because it works on all damage. So a weave of light attack, weapon glyph, skill and bash is a 40% proc chance. Add in dots and it will have a VERY high uptime. It also works at range unlike viper.

So we have a set that's already quite strong at 640 dmg/second. (viper 5 piece makes up on average 17% of my sustained dmg on my Stam NB, it's quite a good set)
And we have a new set, which does 850dmg/second, and works as a hardcounter for both cloak and healing ward.

It also has great 2-4 set bonuses (better than viper for pvp, and can be used by magicka classes)

Will I use it and wreck any cloaking NB or shielding sorc/mag nb? Sure.
Is it balanced? Hell no.
Will it be nerfed after I craft a full set of very expensive jewelry? Only wrobel knows

- It will have a high uptime (tho you cannot just add percentages like that), but still not 100%.
- It counters cloak(if it procs), but its not like NB's aren't used to cloak breaking on a myriad other things already, so no big deal there (at least for me, im surprised everytime cloak *does* work).
- I don't see how an 850 damage tick counters healing ward, really. Unless the guy is next to dead already, you have to get through the shield to kill him, and oblivion damage does not help with that. Personal experience with shieldbreaker.
- The set's 2-4 bonuses mark it as a hybrid set, which may not be for everyone.

Remember how knightslayer set was supposed to be the end of the world when it was on PTS according to these forums?

This is the same. A storm in a teapot. Mark my words.

DDuke wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Sload: 850 damage/second. 10% chance to proc.
Viper: 1600 damage/second. 100% chance to proc.

Like i said. Only saving grace is the oblivion damage type.

10% proc chance is quite a lot because it works on all damage. So a weave of light attack, weapon glyph, skill and bash is a 40% proc chance. Add in dots and it will have a VERY high uptime. It also works at range unlike viper.

It's 34,39% proc chance (1-[0,9*0,9*0,9*0,9]), and all of those are dodgeable - which is the reason I'm not 100% convinced about the set.

That said, I think it should be really strong on mDK atleast once you've got lots of DoTs running (pairs well with BSW as well, since that's another DoT that can proc it) & it should be able to proc Skoria if I'm not mistaken.

True I did not spend time doing the exact math. But the point stands. It will have a really high uptime.

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Sload: 850 damage/second. 10% chance to proc.
Viper: 1600 damage/second. 100% chance to proc.

Like i said. Only saving grace is the oblivion damage type.

Viper after battle spirit = 800/second.
Viper after battle spirit and 20% mitigation = 640/second.

10% proc chance is quite a lot because it works on all damage. So a weave of light attack, weapon glyph, skill and bash is a 40% proc chance. Add in dots and it will have a VERY high uptime. It also works at range unlike viper.

So we have a set that's already quite strong at 640 dmg/second. (viper 5 piece makes up on average 17% of my sustained dmg on my Stam NB, it's quite a good set)
And we have a new set, which does 850dmg/second, and works as a hardcounter for both cloak and healing ward.

It also has great 2-4 set bonuses (better than viper for pvp, and can be used by magicka classes)

Will I use it and wreck any cloaking NB or shielding sorc/mag nb? Sure.
Is it balanced? Hell no.
Will it be nerfed after I craft a full set of very expensive jewelry? Only wrobel knows

- It will have a high uptime (tho you cannot just add percentages like that), but still not 100%.
- It counters cloak(if it procs), but its not like NB's aren't used to cloak breaking on a myriad other things already, so no big deal there (at least for me, im surprised everytime cloak *does* work).
- I don't see how an 850 damage tick counters healing ward, really. Unless the guy is next to dead already, you have to get through the shield to kill him, and oblivion damage does not help with that. Personal experience with shieldbreaker.
- The set's 2-4 bonuses mark it as a hybrid set, which may not be for everyone.

Remember how knightslayer set was supposed to be the end of the world when it was on PTS according to these forums?

This is the same. A storm in a teapot. Mark my words.

Knightslayer was nerfed by 25% before it hit live. Not a good argument to make.

Knightslayer has been heralded as the set to end all sets well into the actual release, after all PTS adjustments have been made. Where is it now?

Same with shieldbreaker - it was supposed to make magicka sorcs extinct, if you believed the forums. I guarantee you i meet a lot more magicka sorcs nowadays than shieldbreakers.

This set is going to end up being the same. Useful, yes (i'm thinking of using it on my WW, purely because of how the WW has trouble with uncovering cloaked players). But everyone and their mother using this in exclusion of all the other possible sets? No chance.