Maintenance for the week of December 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
Smooth, animated transitions for animation canceling
-
Medinaja2Soul ShrivenI am in favor of immersion. I admire your intention for a more immersive combat experience. My only worry is the huge dps nerf that all dps classes would experience. Losing light attack weaving would drop every dps parse by a very noticeable amount. A lot of end game content is based off of end-game dps values that most players can achieve. That would make a lot of end game content such as trials much harder due to the drastic dps loss. All skill damage would have to be increased to accommodate the dps loss. Which would require a very large update and many components to consider.
The second issue is that light attacks would be rendered virtually obsolete in dungeon and trials content. When do you use light attacks in a dungeon other than when you are light attack weaving? So to incentivize light attack weaving light attacks would have to give you some kind of bonus. Light attacks would only be used with sets or builds that reward light attacks, such as Twice-Fanged Serpent.
The last issue is that Zenomax has actively embraced light attack weaving with the new patch notes that are coming out for Summerset. Light attack damage is being increased to further incentivize light attack weaving and stamina/magika recovery is being buffed for heavy attacks.
Due to all of this getting rid of animation cancelling or light attack weaving, would require upending the game as we know it. So although I do appreciate immersion and love as much as I can get of it, I think it's too late to do anything about it without a massive change to the damage and scaling of abilities and sets in that game. And I think for ZOS that would be more loss than gain for a little more immersion.1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am in favor of immersion. I admire your intention for a more immersive combat experience. My only worry is the huge dps nerf that all dps classes would experience. Losing light attack weaving would drop every dps parse by a very noticeable amount. A lot of end game content is based off of end-game dps values that most players can achieve. That would make a lot of end game content such as trials much harder due to the drastic dps loss. All skill damage would have to be increased to accommodate the dps loss. Which would require a very large update and many components to consider.
The second issue is that light attacks would be rendered virtually obsolete in dungeon and trials content. When do you use light attacks in a dungeon other than when you are light attack weaving? So to incentivize light attack weaving light attacks would have to give you some kind of bonus. Light attacks would only be used with sets or builds that reward light attacks, such as Twice-Fanged Serpent.
The last issue is that Zenomax has actively embraced light attack weaving with the new patch notes that are coming out for Summerset. Light attack damage is being increased to further incentivize light attack weaving and stamina/magika recovery is being buffed for heavy attacks.
Due to all of this getting rid of animation cancelling or light attack weaving, would require upending the game as we know it. So although I do appreciate immersion and love as much as I can get of it, I think it's too late to do anything about it without a massive change to the damage and scaling of abilities and sets in that game. And I think for ZOS that would be more loss than gain for a little more immersion.
Light attack weaving is not animation cancelling. That is a built in feature from the inception of this game and is even told to players in game via the leveling advisor.0 -
lazerlaz✭✭✭I would like animation canceling to remain. HOWEVER, I would like it to do its job which is canceling the ability!!! For instance, I play a bowblade. Sometimes mid snipe I need to cancel it because my situation becomes compromised and I need to hold back. Therefore, canceling my snipe so it does not fire is great. So let's keep animation canceling but have it actually cancel the ability!
The standard should be that the whole animation, even if it's considered "instant", needs to happen or the ability is cancelled.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would like animation canceling to remain. HOWEVER, I would like it to do its job which is canceling the ability!!! For instance, I play a bowblade. Sometimes mid snipe I need to cancel it because my situation becomes compromised and I need to hold back. Therefore, canceling my snipe so it does not fire is great. So let's keep animation canceling but have it actually cancel the ability!
The standard should be that the whole animation, even if it's considered "instant", needs to happen or the ability is cancelled.
Since snipe is a hard casted ability the law applies. Canceling mid cast yeilds nothing.
Nothing is being "considered". Instant cast abilities simply are instant. Its not some hidden label. They are literally designed as immediate skills. So explain how your standard would be possible to enforce.
0 -
Lunaugh✭✭✭
I believe we should visit the factor of time; I agree, the type of change I ask for could notpossibly be implemented by Summerset’s release. That doesn’t mean it would be an unreasonable project for 2020.I am in favor of immersion. I admire your intention for a more immersive combat experience. My only worry is the huge dps nerf that all dps classes would experience. Losing light attack weaving would drop every dps parse by a very noticeable amount. A lot of end game content is based off of end-game dps values that most players can achieve. That would make a lot of end game content such as trials much harder due to the drastic dps loss. All skill damage would have to be increased to accommodate the dps loss. Which would require a very large update and many components to consider.
The second issue is that light attacks would be rendered virtually obsolete in dungeon and trials content. When do you use light attacks in a dungeon other than when you are light attack weaving? So to incentivize light attack weaving light attacks would have to give you some kind of bonus. Light attacks would only be used with sets or builds that reward light attacks, such as Twice-Fanged Serpent.
The last issue is that Zenomax has actively embraced light attack weaving with the new patch notes that are coming out for Summerset. Light attack damage is being increased to further incentivize light attack weaving and stamina/magika recovery is being buffed for heavy attacks.
Due to all of this getting rid of animation cancelling or light attack weaving, would require upending the game as we know it. So although I do appreciate immersion and love as much as I can get of it, I think it's too late to do anything about it without a massive change to the damage and scaling of abilities and sets in that game. And I think for ZOS that would be more loss than gain for a little more immersion.
dataOutput ={ }
function: ConvertMagica (dataOutput, magicaInput, skill,fn)
>>> if skill then do
>>>>>> magicaInput = fn(skill)
>>>>>>table.insert(dataOutput, magicaInput)
>>>end
end0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »I am in favor of immersion. I admire your intention for a more immersive combat experience. My only worry is the huge dps nerf that all dps classes would experience. Losing light attack weaving would drop every dps parse by a very noticeable amount. A lot of end game content is based off of end-game dps values that most players can achieve. That would make a lot of end game content such as trials much harder due to the drastic dps loss. All skill damage would have to be increased to accommodate the dps loss. Which would require a very large update and many components to consider.
The second issue is that light attacks would be rendered virtually obsolete in dungeon and trials content. When do you use light attacks in a dungeon other than when you are light attack weaving? So to incentivize light attack weaving light attacks would have to give you some kind of bonus. Light attacks would only be used with sets or builds that reward light attacks, such as Twice-Fanged Serpent.
The last issue is that Zenomax has actively embraced light attack weaving with the new patch notes that are coming out for Summerset. Light attack damage is being increased to further incentivize light attack weaving and stamina/magika recovery is being buffed for heavy attacks.
Due to all of this getting rid of animation cancelling or light attack weaving, would require upending the game as we know it. So although I do appreciate immersion and love as much as I can get of it, I think it's too late to do anything about it without a massive change to the damage and scaling of abilities and sets in that game. And I think for ZOS that would be more loss than gain for a little more immersion.
Light attack weaving is not animation cancelling. That is a built in feature from the inception of this game and is even told to players in game via the leveling advisor.
Yes it is. It's a specific form of anim cancelling.
To weave you cancel the animation of the light attacks with an ability. This is what lets you fit both a light attack and an ability in the same ability cool down.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
lao✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »You are arguing for a cosmetic change while not realizing how that would ruin combat from an internal clock standpoint.
No, it wouldn't. If the combat system had been designed correctly from the beginning we wouldn't even have this discussion. I've worked in the gaming industry as a programmer for many years and yes, i have designed and developed combat systems as well.
There is a right way to do this and ZOS could still fix this correctly with fairly little effort and no, it wouldn't ruin your combat experience.
Having animations that match the cooldown is crucial for fluid combat and instant attacks need very short animations.
the skill element is to cancel the animation in the correct moment instead of letting it play out. look at heavy attack -> reverse slice f.e. you can cancel the heavy attack at literally any time but there is a correct point at which you´re supposed to cancel it to gain max dmg from the heavy attack while taking the least amount of time possible to execute both hits. THAT is the skill element to it. if you cut down animations to the point where they match the cooldowns you dont have that anymore and it just becomes mindless rotation spamming every wood tier noob can do fine. we do not want that and we never will.1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »I am in favor of immersion. I admire your intention for a more immersive combat experience. My only worry is the huge dps nerf that all dps classes would experience. Losing light attack weaving would drop every dps parse by a very noticeable amount. A lot of end game content is based off of end-game dps values that most players can achieve. That would make a lot of end game content such as trials much harder due to the drastic dps loss. All skill damage would have to be increased to accommodate the dps loss. Which would require a very large update and many components to consider.
The second issue is that light attacks would be rendered virtually obsolete in dungeon and trials content. When do you use light attacks in a dungeon other than when you are light attack weaving? So to incentivize light attack weaving light attacks would have to give you some kind of bonus. Light attacks would only be used with sets or builds that reward light attacks, such as Twice-Fanged Serpent.
The last issue is that Zenomax has actively embraced light attack weaving with the new patch notes that are coming out for Summerset. Light attack damage is being increased to further incentivize light attack weaving and stamina/magika recovery is being buffed for heavy attacks.
Due to all of this getting rid of animation cancelling or light attack weaving, would require upending the game as we know it. So although I do appreciate immersion and love as much as I can get of it, I think it's too late to do anything about it without a massive change to the damage and scaling of abilities and sets in that game. And I think for ZOS that would be more loss than gain for a little more immersion.
Light attack weaving is not animation cancelling. That is a built in feature from the inception of this game and is even told to players in game via the leveling advisor.
Yes it is. It's a specific form of anim cancelling.
To weave you cancel the animation of the light attacks with an ability. This is what lets you fit both a light attack and an ability in the same ability cool down.
Yes and no. You can indeed cancel the recovery animation of a light attack if you fire off a skill immediately after firing off the light attack. You can, however, also weave light attacks between each skill without cancelling any animations whatsoever. Weaving is merely the practice of throwing in a light attack (or heavy attack) between each skill. It becomes animation cancelling when you time it such that the recovery animation of the light/heavy attack is cancelled.I would like animation canceling to remain. HOWEVER, I would like it to do its job which is canceling the ability!!! For instance, I play a bowblade. Sometimes mid snipe I need to cancel it because my situation becomes compromised and I need to hold back. Therefore, canceling my snipe so it does not fire is great. So let's keep animation canceling but have it actually cancel the ability!
The standard should be that the whole animation, even if it's considered "instant", needs to happen or the ability is cancelled.
That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
Scenario 1: Person A hits Person B with a baseball bat. When the bat makes contact, he pulls the bat away from Person B, back into the pre-swing position. Person B has a bruise, as damage has been done.
Scenario 2: Person A hits Person B with a baseball bat. When the bat makes contact, he does not pull the bat away from Person B, back into its pre-swing position; he loses his grip and lets go of the bat. Person B still has a bruise, though, because the damage is already done. Whether Person A pulls the bat back into its starting position or not is irrelevant; you can’t take back damage once you’ve dealt it.
Same concept applies to cancelling the recovery animation of an instant ability.
0 -
ShadowMonarch✭✭✭✭I weave and anicancle every single attack but I agree, it is kinda stupid at the end of the day.
I also think your weapons should be shown on your character, not just the one you are swapped to but the others aswell, it looks kinda stupid to be holding a giant sword then suddenly its poof and you have a small sword and shield out of just nowhere, or 2 daggers meanwhile your 2hand sword is gone, or you put your shield away and its just poof into thin air. It wouldn't be hard to program some slots on character modles that weapons of each type would fit into.
Daggers/1h weapons around your hips or strapped to lower back, staves and shields across the back, 2h's on a strap or waist.Edited by ShadowMonarch on May 15, 2018 10:39AM1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@lazerlaz How would you go about stopping the skill from firing when cancelling the animation when that skill is instant? Instant skills don't have a casttime. That is why it is called 'animation' cancelling and not 'skill' cancelling. Every single argument against animation cancelling is so easy to refute. Yet people just will not get it.0 -
Lunaugh✭✭✭p
I don’t have any issues with efficient gameplay, I have an issue with ugly gameplay. You can have both (beauty and efficiency)and that’s the goal of this entire thread .@lazerlaz How would you go about stopping the skill from firing when cancelling the animation when that skill is instant? Instant skills don't have a casttime. That is why it is called 'animation' cancelling and not 'skill' cancelling. Every single argument against animation cancelling is so easy to refute. Yet people just will not get it.
Edited by Lunaugh on May 15, 2018 2:13PMdataOutput ={ }
function: ConvertMagica (dataOutput, magicaInput, skill,fn)
>>> if skill then do
>>>>>> magicaInput = fn(skill)
>>>>>>table.insert(dataOutput, magicaInput)
>>>end
end0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »I am in favor of immersion. I admire your intention for a more immersive combat experience. My only worry is the huge dps nerf that all dps classes would experience. Losing light attack weaving would drop every dps parse by a very noticeable amount. A lot of end game content is based off of end-game dps values that most players can achieve. That would make a lot of end game content such as trials much harder due to the drastic dps loss. All skill damage would have to be increased to accommodate the dps loss. Which would require a very large update and many components to consider.
The second issue is that light attacks would be rendered virtually obsolete in dungeon and trials content. When do you use light attacks in a dungeon other than when you are light attack weaving? So to incentivize light attack weaving light attacks would have to give you some kind of bonus. Light attacks would only be used with sets or builds that reward light attacks, such as Twice-Fanged Serpent.
The last issue is that Zenomax has actively embraced light attack weaving with the new patch notes that are coming out for Summerset. Light attack damage is being increased to further incentivize light attack weaving and stamina/magika recovery is being buffed for heavy attacks.
Due to all of this getting rid of animation cancelling or light attack weaving, would require upending the game as we know it. So although I do appreciate immersion and love as much as I can get of it, I think it's too late to do anything about it without a massive change to the damage and scaling of abilities and sets in that game. And I think for ZOS that would be more loss than gain for a little more immersion.
Light attack weaving is not animation cancelling. That is a built in feature from the inception of this game and is even told to players in game via the leveling advisor.
Yes it is. It's a specific form of anim cancelling.
To weave you cancel the animation of the light attacks with an ability. This is what lets you fit both a light attack and an ability in the same ability cool down.
I know exactly what it is. Its a light attack weave. And when doing so it just so happens that the recovery animations of skills are cut off. This is not what the majority are reffering to when they make complaint threads regarding animation canceling.1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭p
I don’t have any issues with efficient gameplay, I have an issue with ugly gameplay. You can have both (beauty and efficiency)and that’s the goal of this entire thread .@lazerlaz How would you go about stopping the skill from firing when cancelling the animation when that skill is instant? Instant skills don't have a casttime. That is why it is called 'animation' cancelling and not 'skill' cancelling. Every single argument against animation cancelling is so easy to refute. Yet people just will not get it.
That is the thing though.. you cant have your cake and eat it. This is the compromise. What is more ugly? Cutting off recovery animations with other actions or speeding up attacks to turbo speed so they play out it in under a second just so using block bar swap or dodge roll doesnt cut off any recovery animations. If you want naturally looking skills to play out in full, you would HAVE to disable defensive actions, which i dont have to explain why that would be less then ideal.
It has nothing to do with a combat reform. Even hypothetically, there is not solution. The developers have absolutely not dug themselves into a hole that they cant get out of. They knew exactly what they needed to do to make a combatable combat system with an online mmorpg.1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes, this works for damage abilities, as templar healer I regularly block cancel sweep to cast BoL, now if BoL had an casting time this would result in an over 1 second time from I saw you take an serious damage spike to I healed you, same would go for shields or ranged interrupts like crunching shock.I would like animation canceling to remain. HOWEVER, I would like it to do its job which is canceling the ability!!! For instance, I play a bowblade. Sometimes mid snipe I need to cancel it because my situation becomes compromised and I need to hold back. Therefore, canceling my snipe so it does not fire is great. So let's keep animation canceling but have it actually cancel the ability!
The standard should be that the whole animation, even if it's considered "instant", needs to happen or the ability is cancelled.
Now if all casts are telegraphed this would change pvp significant if bash and block is instant and block would be useless if not.
All abilities still has an global cooldown, LA and bar swap is pretty much free.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
One way to do it who would work is if AC cost resources. Yes this would require an total re balancing of the game.exeeter702 wrote: »p
I don’t have any issues with efficient gameplay, I have an issue with ugly gameplay. You can have both (beauty and efficiency)and that’s the goal of this entire thread .@lazerlaz How would you go about stopping the skill from firing when cancelling the animation when that skill is instant? Instant skills don't have a casttime. That is why it is called 'animation' cancelling and not 'skill' cancelling. Every single argument against animation cancelling is so easy to refute. Yet people just will not get it.
That is the thing though.. you cant have your cake and eat it. This is the compromise. What is more ugly? Cutting off recovery animations with other actions or speeding up attacks to turbo speed so they play out it in under a second just so using block bar swap or dodge roll doesnt cut off any recovery animations. If you want naturally looking skills to play out in full, you would HAVE to disable defensive actions, which i dont have to explain why that would be less then ideal.
It has nothing to do with a combat reform. Even hypothetically, there is not solution. The developers have absolutely not dug themselves into a hole that they cant get out of. They knew exactly what they needed to do to make a combatable combat system with an online mmorpg.
This is likely to be an very bad idea who would hurt more than the morrowind nerfs.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Lunaugh✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »p
I don’t have any issues with efficient gameplay, I have an issue with ugly gameplay. You can have both (beauty and efficiency)and that’s the goal of this entire thread .@lazerlaz How would you go about stopping the skill from firing when cancelling the animation when that skill is instant? Instant skills don't have a casttime. That is why it is called 'animation' cancelling and not 'skill' cancelling. Every single argument against animation cancelling is so easy to refute. Yet people just will not get it.
That is the thing though.. you cant have your cake and eat it. This is the compromise. What is more ugly? Cutting off recovery animations with other actions or speeding up attacks to turbo speed so they play out it in under a second just so using block bar swap or dodge roll doesnt cut off any recovery animations. If you want naturally looking skills to play out in full, you would HAVE to disable defensive actions, which i dont have to explain why that would be less then ideal.
It has nothing to do with a combat reform. Even hypothetically, there is not solution. The developers have absolutely not dug themselves into a hole that they cant get out of. They knew exactly what they needed to do to make a combatable combat system with an online mmorpg.
I fundamentally disagree with your arguments. I do not believe that they have the perfect answer to MMORPG combat functioning. I believe they have the cost-effective and acceptable answer. I feel that there is plenty of room for improvement.
We should always be looking forward to better and better things in a system that is constantly on the development.
What I hear from you is, and correct me if I misunderstand, "what you want is impossible without destroying the game, and will always be impossible without destroying the game".
I disagree with this notion.
lets take a look at consoles.
NES was an awesome console, it played state of the art games in its era. It remained until it was no longer able to sustain the growing consumer wants for more complicated, better looking games. Before reaching a dead-end, a new, upgraded and re-imagined version of the console was released, the SNES. This pattern continued to the N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U, then the Switch.
What I get from your arguments is that you want to hold onto one console, lets say the Wii, even though the future may ask (or even require) more; that this is the way the game should be until it falls into obscurity.
I disagree with this notion. The current animation/skill mechanics work as they are now; should we not hope for development to continue reaching for greater heights?
I agree it would not be an easy task, and it would require much alteration on what already exists.
I am also an advocate of growth and advancement. On a long enough timeline I CAN have my cake and eat it too. After all, to eat cake, you have to have a cake to eat.
Cake= {haveCake, eatCake}
EatCake = function (checkVar, action)
>>>if checkVar then
>>>>>>action
>>>end
end
EatCake(Cake[1], Cake[2])Edited by Lunaugh on May 15, 2018 7:26PMdataOutput ={ }
function: ConvertMagica (dataOutput, magicaInput, skill,fn)
>>> if skill then do
>>>>>> magicaInput = fn(skill)
>>>>>>table.insert(dataOutput, magicaInput)
>>>end
end1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
One way to do it who would work is if AC cost resources. Yes this would require an total re balancing of the game.exeeter702 wrote: »p
I don’t have any issues with efficient gameplay, I have an issue with ugly gameplay. You can have both (beauty and efficiency)and that’s the goal of this entire thread .@lazerlaz How would you go about stopping the skill from firing when cancelling the animation when that skill is instant? Instant skills don't have a casttime. That is why it is called 'animation' cancelling and not 'skill' cancelling. Every single argument against animation cancelling is so easy to refute. Yet people just will not get it.
That is the thing though.. you cant have your cake and eat it. This is the compromise. What is more ugly? Cutting off recovery animations with other actions or speeding up attacks to turbo speed so they play out it in under a second just so using block bar swap or dodge roll doesnt cut off any recovery animations. If you want naturally looking skills to play out in full, you would HAVE to disable defensive actions, which i dont have to explain why that would be less then ideal.
It has nothing to do with a combat reform. Even hypothetically, there is not solution. The developers have absolutely not dug themselves into a hole that they cant get out of. They knew exactly what they needed to do to make a combatable combat system with an online mmorpg.
This is likely to be an very bad idea who would hurt more than the morrowind nerfs.
If there was substantial benefits to canceling recovery animations during the GCD refresh then charging players would make sense. There isnt any benefit though beyond the natural benefits that are in place for blocking, roll dodging, or bashing when necessary. All of which have a resource price. In essence all you are actually advocating for or suggesting is that defensive actions carry an additional price tag.
Again "block canceling" or "bar swap canceling" carry no inherent value or influence in speeding up skill delivery to targets, circumventing the GCD or improving dps rotations (again in this context, natural light attack weaving is not animation canceling).
And once again the circular logic comes full swing, since this suggestion is completely incompatible with the combat system AND it would STILL not appease the individuals that dont want immersion breaking combat visuals.Edited by exeeter702 on May 15, 2018 7:25PM0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »p
I don’t have any issues with efficient gameplay, I have an issue with ugly gameplay. You can have both (beauty and efficiency)and that’s the goal of this entire thread .@lazerlaz How would you go about stopping the skill from firing when cancelling the animation when that skill is instant? Instant skills don't have a casttime. That is why it is called 'animation' cancelling and not 'skill' cancelling. Every single argument against animation cancelling is so easy to refute. Yet people just will not get it.
That is the thing though.. you cant have your cake and eat it. This is the compromise. What is more ugly? Cutting off recovery animations with other actions or speeding up attacks to turbo speed so they play out it in under a second just so using block bar swap or dodge roll doesnt cut off any recovery animations. If you want naturally looking skills to play out in full, you would HAVE to disable defensive actions, which i dont have to explain why that would be less then ideal.
It has nothing to do with a combat reform. Even hypothetically, there is not solution. The developers have absolutely not dug themselves into a hole that they cant get out of. They knew exactly what they needed to do to make a combatable combat system with an online mmorpg.
I fundamentally disagree with your arguments. I do not believe that they have the perfect answer to MMORPG combat functioning. I believe they have the cost-effective and acceptable answer. I feel that there is plenty of room for improvement.
We should always be looking forward to better and better things in a system that is constantly on the development.
What I hear from you is, and correct me if I misunderstand, "what you want is impossible without destroying the game, and will always be impossible without destroying the game".
I disagree with this notion.
lets take a look at consoles.
NES was an awesome console, it played state of the art games in its era. It remained until it was no longer able to sustain the growing consumer wants for more complicated, better looking games. Before reaching a dead-end, a new, upgraded and re-imagined version of the console was released, the SNES. This pattern continued to the N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U, then the Switch.
What I get from your arguments is that you want to hold onto one console, lets say the Wii, even though the future may ask (or even require) more; that this is the way the game should be until it falls into obscurity.
I disagree with this notion. The current animation/skill mechanics work as they are now; should we not hope for development to continue reaching for greater heights?
I agree it would not be an easy task, and it would require much alteration on what already exists.
I am also an advocate of growth and advancement. On a long enough timeline I CAN have my cake and eat it too. After all, to eat cake, you have to have a cake to eat.
Cake= {haveCake, eatCake}
EatCake = function (checkVar, action)
>>>if checkVar then
>>>>>>action
>>>end
end
EatCake(Cake[1], Cake[2])
I know you mean well... but this is really not countering any of the facts that have laid out on the subject and seems like a bunch of loose statements. I ask again, as i have twice to which those in question have yet to provide an explanation..
Elaborate on how exactly they would go about changing the combat in a way that you would find acceptable.
No offense but im beging to believe you are too unfamiliar with the subject to provide any tangible insight. I have laid it out step by step, from the necessity of a gcd in an online rpg, to skills needing to be fully animated, to the the mandatory defensive action priority, to how animation cancelling itself is hardly as beneficial as many believe, and to how equally terrible combat would look and feel with resolve point placed at the tail end of recovery animations while speeding up skills to completely animate under 1 second.
And im just going to pretend you didnt literally break down the have cake and eat it metaphor...
2 -
Lunaugh✭✭✭I think I understand better; I personally don’t have the programming expertise or know-how to answer that want. In my mind, I just need to express my concern amd that it is a concern that is shared by multiple individuals. In establishing that it is such an issue, larger than the wants of one, the job becomes one for the Developers. I don’t have a solution, But I have confidence in human ingenuity.
I feel that if I am able to express my concerns and show that they are not just my concerns, that the development team may embark on a quest to answer those concerns. My aim is to establish a goal for ZOS to meet.
I don’t know how they would meet the goal.Edited by Lunaugh on May 15, 2018 8:18PMdataOutput ={ }
function: ConvertMagica (dataOutput, magicaInput, skill,fn)
>>> if skill then do
>>>>>> magicaInput = fn(skill)
>>>>>>table.insert(dataOutput, magicaInput)
>>>end
end0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
What is the concern here? Honestly? What harm does AC do? I doesn't speed up attacks at all. ALL it does it make aure you can react defensively while inside an animation, like any other game that aims to have responsive combat. I swear to god all these people who are against animation cancelling would be crying and raging their hearts out if animation cancelling wouldn't be here and they would die against an attack that they couldn't block or dodge, "cuz animashunnnzz".. -_-I think I understand better; I personally don’t have the programming expertise or know-how to answer that want. In my mind, I just need to express my concern amd that it is a concern that is shared by multiple individuals. In establishing that it is such an issue, larger than the wants of one, the job becomes one for the Developers. I don’t have a solution, But I have confidence in human ingenuity.
I feel that if I am able to express my concerns and show that they are not just my concerns, that the development team may embark on a quest to answer those concerns. My aim is to establish a goal for ZOS to meet.
I don’t know how they would meet the goal.4 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
What is the concern here? Honestly? What harm does AC do? I doesn't speed up attacks at all. ALL it does it make aure you can react defensively while inside an animation, like any other game that aims to have responsive combat. I swear to god all these people who are against animation cancelling would be crying and raging their hearts out if animation cancelling wouldn't be here and they would die against an attack that they couldn't block or dodge, "cuz animashunnnzz".. -_-I think I understand better; I personally don’t have the programming expertise or know-how to answer that want. In my mind, I just need to express my concern amd that it is a concern that is shared by multiple individuals. In establishing that it is such an issue, larger than the wants of one, the job becomes one for the Developers. I don’t have a solution, But I have confidence in human ingenuity.
I feel that if I am able to express my concerns and show that they are not just my concerns, that the development team may embark on a quest to answer those concerns. My aim is to establish a goal for ZOS to meet.
I don’t know how they would meet the goal.
Exactly, most people complain about AC without fully understanding it because they feel like it gives other players an advantage over them. Its just a sad excuse for a lack of skills really, devs stated thats its intended to keep combat actions responsive so people not willing to adapt are just gimping themselves.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭From a gameplay perspective, ani-cancelling needs to exist.
From and aesthetics perspective, the animations could do with blending with each-other when cancelled, as opposed to being a hard-cutoff. (Animation blending is a thing which is very easily handled in some game engines - but there are so many animations in eso - which can be cancelled in so many different ways, it would be quite a big task to set up, test and refine)
So, for example, in an ideal world, with snb, attacking with a sword, then block-cancelling, should result in the sword-arm animation still playing out, but the shield arm (block part) also playing at the same time as the sword animation is completing. The block effect can still take effect immediately.
More tricky with weaves etc.. where its the same weapon.. May need some extra animations for each ability for different directions, but some smoothing should be possible.
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Lunaugh✭✭✭
That is not the case with this thread.Septimus_Magna wrote: »
Exactly, most people complain about AC without fully understanding it because they feel like it gives other players an advantage over them. Its just a sad excuse for a lack of skills really, devs stated thats its intended to keep combat actions responsive so people not willing to adapt are just gimping themselves.
This is an example of what the OP is looking for in discussionFrom a gameplay perspective, ani-cancelling needs to exist.
From and aesthetics perspective, the animations could do with blending with each-other when cancelled, as opposed to being a hard-cutoff. (Animation blending is a thing which is very easily handled in some game engines - but there are so many animations in eso - which can be cancelled in so many different ways, it would be quite a big task to set up, test and refine)
So, for example, in an ideal world, with snb, attacking with a sword, then block-cancelling, should result in the sword-arm animation still playing out, but the shield arm (block part) also playing at the same time as the sword animation is completing. The block effect can still take effect immediately.
More tricky with weaves etc.. where its the same weapon.. May need some extra animations for each ability for different directions, but some smoothing should be possible.
dataOutput ={ }
function: ConvertMagica (dataOutput, magicaInput, skill,fn)
>>> if skill then do
>>>>>> magicaInput = fn(skill)
>>>>>>table.insert(dataOutput, magicaInput)
>>>end
end0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭From a gameplay perspective, ani-cancelling needs to exist.
From and aesthetics perspective, the animations could do with blending with each-other when cancelled, as opposed to being a hard-cutoff. (Animation blending is a thing which is very easily handled in some game engines - but there are so many animations in eso - which can be cancelled in so many different ways, it would be quite a big task to set up, test and refine)
So, for example, in an ideal world, with snb, attacking with a sword, then block-cancelling, should result in the sword-arm animation still playing out, but the shield arm (block part) also playing at the same time as the sword animation is completing. The block effect can still take effect immediately.
More tricky with weaves etc.. where its the same weapon.. May need some extra animations for each ability for different directions, but some smoothing should be possible.
That type of smoothing cant work simply because of the requirement for attacks to animated within a specific time frame. On top of the nature of how many variables that approach presents itself. There is no amount of blending that can work like this consistently. How would you animate a bar swap when your weapon is visually fully extended outward. There are numerous examples like this for all sorts of animations. In more traditional weighted combat in single player games or games that dont function with GCDs (generally games with less players in a given instance or games with SIGNIFICANTLY ability veriety), specifically animating each and every possible combination of actions playing into one another is a realistic objective.
But then you look at the way which is seperating body movement. Those types of animation blending techniques when used (limbs, torso, upper/lower body independent from one another) always tend to end up looking very strange and disjointed.0 -
Medinaja2Soul Shriven
Light attack weaving IS a form of animation cancelling. In the middle of any ability you can use a light attack to cancel the animation before moving on to the next skill. I do it in my rotation all the time.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »I am in favor of immersion. I admire your intention for a more immersive combat experience. My only worry is the huge dps nerf that all dps classes would experience. Losing light attack weaving would drop every dps parse by a very noticeable amount. A lot of end game content is based off of end-game dps values that most players can achieve. That would make a lot of end game content such as trials much harder due to the drastic dps loss. All skill damage would have to be increased to accommodate the dps loss. Which would require a very large update and many components to consider.
The second issue is that light attacks would be rendered virtually obsolete in dungeon and trials content. When do you use light attacks in a dungeon other than when you are light attack weaving? So to incentivize light attack weaving light attacks would have to give you some kind of bonus. Light attacks would only be used with sets or builds that reward light attacks, such as Twice-Fanged Serpent.
The last issue is that Zenomax has actively embraced light attack weaving with the new patch notes that are coming out for Summerset. Light attack damage is being increased to further incentivize light attack weaving and stamina/magika recovery is being buffed for heavy attacks.
Due to all of this getting rid of animation cancelling or light attack weaving, would require upending the game as we know it. So although I do appreciate immersion and love as much as I can get of it, I think it's too late to do anything about it without a massive change to the damage and scaling of abilities and sets in that game. And I think for ZOS that would be more loss than gain for a little more immersion.
Light attack weaving is not animation cancelling. That is a built in feature from the inception of this game and is even told to players in game via the leveling advisor.
Light attack weaving is AC. The skill cuts off the end of the animation of the light attack. It is very much AC without a doubt and works as it does due to the same game details that the animation lasts longer than GCD for using an action.0 -
KraziJoe✭✭✭It should not exist, but it does and now the devs have embraced it, for better or worse.0
-
Sarjako✭✭✭Greetings fellow forum dwellers.
Back in my gaming prime, I was all about pushing games to their limit, finding the tricks to gain an edge against the competition. What combination of actions would break the balance?
From Super Smash Bros. wave-dashing to Warhammer 40k: Space Marine roll dashing, I've tweaked my share of games for a competitive edge.
Now past my prime and lacking the same amount of free time I find that such techniques, while valid, are evidence of broken programming.
Before I continue, I will admit that I utilize animation/weapon-swap canceling.
My problem is as follows: If one is to reach 'top tier', one has to sacrifice many aesthetic and/or immersive aspects in the game. It comes to the point that when you have 40 'top tier' players, it doesn't look like a fantasy battle at all. Its a whole bunch of hopping, random instantaneous weapons swapping, (visually) incomplete spell casting etc.
Immersion broken.
In my opinion, spells have specific animations and animation times for two reasons: one is immersion, two is balance. If, sans-cancel, another skill can not be cast until the animation of the first cast skill is completed, then it was intended that way.
I'd like to see the animation canceling removed. Thoughts?
Stop beating a dead horse. Animation cancelling is a core part of the game and unless it's completely stripped down and recoded it's not possible.XBX1 NA
Healplar / StamDK-Tank / Stamblade / Magblade
CP 8100
