MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A minority of vocal players have been asking for a gear cap increase for a while. In this thread I am going to explain why a gear cap increase will NEVER happen in ESO (unless ZOS abandons One Tamriel).

"But WoW keeps increasing their gear cap, why can't ESO?"

The answer is simple: WoW doesn't have scaling.

When WoW introduces a new zone, dungeon, or raid, the mobs in said instance are also a higher level than the rest of the mobs in the game. Therefore, the player needs to farm new gear in order to complete this new content.

This is how ESO worked before One Tamriel (and is also why ESO had an increasing gear cap then).

As of One Tamriel, when ESO launches new content, the mobs are automatically scaled to the same level as all other mobs in the game. You don't need new gear to complete the new content. However, raising the gear cap would mean that all old content becomes inaccessible to the player until they've farmed gear at the new gear cap. When WoW increase the gear cap, old content is still accessible, it's only new content that requires new gear. This alone makes it impossible to increase the gear cap without breaking the game for everyone.

"But I want to become stronger, and I can only become stronger with higher level gear."

This statement is also incorrect. Gear levels do not make you stronger in ESO because mobs scale to the max gear level. Therefore, if the gear cap were raised to CP180 (for example), all mobs would be scaled to CP180. This means that all your stats would be increased 1:1 with mob stats. Your DPS would be identical at CP180 to what it was at CP160. A gear cap increase in ESO is not a means of progression (which is what some people seem to think).

As you can see, a gear cap increase in ESO accomplishes nothing. It isn't needed to unlock new content, nor does it make you more powerful. The only way it could work is if ZOS abandoned One Tamriel, which I highly doubt they will do.

Very clear Point. ESO will never have a large end game population and this is one of the reasons. One Tamriel was actually a step to far in one direction and burned the bridge behind it. It was almost an NGE for ESO in some small way. though they did far better with it than Sony did with SWG. right now ZOS is a washing machine of rinse cycle repeat with its customers. one way out of this is to Layer the cp system and make new constellations with a level increase that unlock at the new max level. it's something they should have done with Morrowind. unfortunately ZOS will continue to focus on content for its single player community. and the end game will continue as it has. Guilds will rise up with new player and a middling population of returnees and die off in a cycle. Long term players be come isolationists and the churn will continue. its unfortunate because even the console players are screaming for this to be a real MMO, their largest complaint is trials and add ons lol

Endgame content has nothing to do with a gear cap (in fact, an increasing gear cap is detrimental to endgame as it forces you to grind gear instead of play the actual content). There just needs to be a constant influx of new content (which there hasn't been for a while). Although this year it seems we're getting 2 raids, which is a step in the right direction.

If you constantly add new sets maybe. Every game that has lasted more then five year follows a formula of increasing levels and increasing the alternate advancment systems. As well as adding new gear. Just adding new content does not keep the end game player interested if there is nothing new to quire but questing. Sorry but it just does not work that way?

I mean, I fail to see how gear grinding is "fun". I spent 1 hour in DS1 and I almost uninstalled the game. Yes, ESO is different than traditional MMOs, but the question is this: is the traditional advancement system in other MMOs a right call? Because, as you see, the traditional MMO genre is dying very quickly. There's a reason for it: people are realizing that gear grinding isn't fun at all, there are better ways to spend their time to enjoy games. Right now, it's the rise of competitive games, and the thing in common of all these successful games is that they all have amazing gameplay. It's a clear indication that people prefer gameplay to grinding at this point. Sure, gear grinding is still needed for an MMO, but there's a point where it's enough. The game shouldn't be just a massive and boring grind.
The question is this, should ZOS stay on a sinking boat or should they abandon it and try something new instead? In my opinion, it would be a better choice of ZOS focusing on improving the gameplay and the competitive aspect of the game, instead of the old boring grind of a dying genre.

I dont find ESO gameplay amazing though. aquiring rewards from challenging content is far different from grinding i never once asked for a gear grind which eso already has in form of its trait system. and for game play there really is none because you canlight attack your way naked to lvl 50 if you so chose too. there are games that have good game play. and i dont think the traditional mmo is dying at all. some of these games are still going strong 12 years post launch.

ESO gameplay isn't amazing, but at least it's action based so it's better than WoW and most of the point-and-click MMOs in my opinion. Plus, that's also why I said ZOS should focus on improving the gameplay.

You know that traditional MMO dying is a fact and is backed up with numbers, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8t4h53k29s

it must be dying , because that English accent youtuber says Google trends are down . ZOS sold 1.6 million copies of this game at launch, more then any MMO title to ever sell on its launch day. the intrest is there . Its not dying enough that Zenimax online was willing to borrow 300 million dollars on top of the Bethesda capital to start ZOS specifically to make ESO and a potential Fallout MMO. there is no doubt MOBA's are attracting large numbers of gamers i do agree. MMO's are not going anywhere most of the Genres godfathers and development teams are shying away from those big corporate dollars to work on indie projects because they get screwed out of their own creations.

The reason that ESO is doing well for an MMO is that ESO is an unique experience compared to other MMOs, in the sense that it is not a traditional MMORPG. The game doesn't follow the traditional progression system that you suggested. This is the exact reason why I said ESO shouldn't follow the same old MMO formula, traditional MMOs are dying because of it, people are realizing that gear grinding isn't fun at all, there are better ways to spend their time to enjoy games. The game shouldn't be just a massive and boring grind, people just don't enjoy a grindfest anymore, this isn't 2004.

Apart from ESO, if you look at the numbers, WoW's sub number is declining rapidly, traditional grindfest MMOs are dying like flies. About indie MMOs, if they want to be successful, they have to be unique, they have to try out new creative things, if they keep the same old grindfest formula, they will die like all the traditional MMOs are dying.

ESO is doing well because of the damn cash shop and you know it. it has huge population of people that dont even play the game dont give me that garbage. It sold tons of copies and has a bunch of revenue from its crown store feeding of the barbie doll community If you look at its rention it did horribly in a 18 month windo from launch, the only thing that help it was console sales. And you keep going on and on about gear grinds Jesus dude they exist right here in its trait system people grind one solo instance for VMA weapons for a specific trait and the fact that you don't see ESO for what it is in its end game just lets me know your not playing the whole game. the gear grind is no different here than it is in any other MMO. ESO 's retention from Launch was horrible and they keep redesigning the game to better fit the crown store and the player base that uses it. the that plays the game like its candy crush. quit trying to paint this game as the MMO messiah its just not. Its business model is predatory and had they not written their TOS the way it is there would have been legal consequences for what they did with Morrowind. ESO is not a unique experience its just like every other MMO just far more shallow. the old ones are dying because they are old they were designned for a 10 year life cycle and they far exceeded it.

Lol dude. As I have explained above, ESO is unique in the sense that it is not a traditional MMORPG, the game doesn't follow the traditional progression system in other MMOs that you suggested. You see, gear grinding is already bad, so why on Earth do you want them to raise gear cap to make it even worse? It did horribly at launch because most of the feedbacks told ZOS that the game was just a generic WoW clone, not "Elder Scrolls-ish" enough, and feedbacks were pretty clear that players didn't want another WoW clone. So they changed things. They added the Justice System, they added more content like Craglorn, Orsinium, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and guess what, they added One Tamriel which is basically Skyrim's progression system. Take a look at the numbers from Steam chart: http://steamcharts.com/app/306130
October 2016, the game tripled the number of avg. players, from 3k to 9k. That's just steam, a small part of PC playerbase, it doesn't even count the new players from Bethesda launcher, PS4 and Xbox one. You see it now? People want something unique, something new, no one wants to play another WoW clone.
The old ones are dying because they are old, so where are all the new and successful ones with the same progression system? If traditional MMO is doing sooooo well, there would be a tons of successful new titles, so where are they? There are so few new MMOs released, and as time flies, new projects are less grand and less impressive. Number talks, as you see, the decline of traditional MMOs is a fact and is backed up by actual numbers. No one cares if you think traditional MMO is not dying, because all the numbers suggest that in fact it is dying.

If new MMOs want to be successful, they have to be unique, they have to try out new creative things, if they keep the same old grindfest formula (raising gearcap each expansion), they will die like all the traditional MMOs are dying.

I hate WOW i dont want a WOW clone but i do want actual group content . but with that said there afar more people playing WOW right now then ESO. ESO does not have the active player base you think it does. im glad you like them game. I do not anymore, i did at one point. The justice system is half baked. TG and DB were a scam those were supposed to guilds they added for free shortly after craglorn. Orssinium was decent single player addition and the delve was enjoyable. Craglorn was redone not because it sucked but because people had no reason to do it anymore, when it launched it was packed i mean packed , for months it was the hub of the game. i may be harsh on ESO true. but this game isnot the MMO messiah you think it is it does not have the player base you think it does and out of flushing my firends list three time and joing 20 different guilds not one person i played with at launch plays this game anymore, not one person i played this game with in 2015 plays anymore. the game is a constant churn player base and every 6 to 9 months it flushes. MMO's period are not being made much anymore and his to do with the economics of them and the people who know how to make good ones wont work for corporate america anymore thats just the facts.

Your point yesterday: ESO is doing well.
Your point today: ESO is not doing well.

Make up your mind, bro.

Btw it has nothing to do with my point. Traditional MMOs are dying and you can't deny that.

Eso is making money of the cash shop. The end game community is a vapid wasteland . Eso has found their cow and are milking it. There are traditional MMos in development right now . Pretty sure you wont be any where near this game or the forums in six months anyway

There really aren't any big budget MMOs in development at the moment. Just a bunch of kickstarter projects and niche titles. None of them have widespread appeal.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

NiclasFridholm wrote: »

They already stated it will happen this year...

No they didn't. They said they will let us know when (and if) an increase was coming.

As I explained, it's impossible to raise the gear cap without getting rid of One Tamriel, so I don't imagine we'll be getting a gear cap increase any time soon, if ever.

No. They said it will happen. They didn't state when our even if it will be this year. Just that they will be mindful of people's time investment.

Unless you are a zos employee or have some secret knowledge this is all just your opinion. You don't know whether it will or won't. We do know they said they would be mindful of our investment in the game when they do a gear cap increase.

Also where do you come up with that only a minority want this? More opinion?

I'm stating facts. A gear cap increase is impossible with One Tamriel. No opinion there. Sure it's possible that they get rid of One Tamriel and implement a gear treadmill, but it's unlikely given the success of OT.

And create a poll if you'd like. I'd be willing to bet all my gold in this game that the majority of players, casual and hardcore, don't want a gear treadmill.

josiahva wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

NiclasFridholm wrote: »

They already stated it will happen this year...

No they didn't. They said they will let us know when (and if) an increase was coming.

As I explained, it's impossible to raise the gear cap without getting rid of One Tamriel, so I don't imagine we'll be getting a gear cap increase any time soon, if ever.

No. They said it will happen. They didn't state when our even if it will be this year. Just that they will be mindful of people's time investment.

Unless you are a zos employee or have some secret knowledge this is all just your opinion. You don't know whether it will or won't. We do know they said they would be mindful of our investment in the game when they do a gear cap increase.

Also where do you come up with that only a minority want this? More opinion?

I'm stating facts. A gear cap increase is impossible with One Tamriel. No opinion there. Sure it's possible that they get rid of One Tamriel and implement a gear treadmill, but it's unlikely given the success of OT.

And create a poll if you'd like. I'd be willing to bet all my gold in this game that the majority of players, casual and hardcore, don't want a gear treadmill.

why is it impossible exactly? Why cant your stats change with higher gear exactly? as it is there is a differenc ein stats between 150 and 160...why not 160 and 180?

revonine wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

This makes a lot of sense.

It's also really frustrating to have to replenish builds, and this game has MASSIVE build diversity.

I know many people who would outright quit the game if the gear cap were raised.

I would be one of them. Farming all that trials gear all over again in perfect traits. Farming any weapon in sharpened all over again. Farming undaunted sets again. No thanks I would never wanna do that all over again xD

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

NiclasFridholm wrote: »

They already stated it will happen this year...

No they didn't. They said they will let us know when (and if) an increase was coming.

As I explained, it's impossible to raise the gear cap without getting rid of One Tamriel, so I don't imagine we'll be getting a gear cap increase any time soon, if ever.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

NiclasFridholm wrote: »

They already stated it will happen this year...

No they didn't. They said they will let us know when (and if) an increase was coming.

As I explained, it's impossible to raise the gear cap without getting rid of One Tamriel, so I don't imagine we'll be getting a gear cap increase any time soon, if ever.

I don't get why raising the gear cap would have any problem with One Tamriel. You just move all NPCs and mobs to that new max level. You scale everything CP160 and below to the new cap.

Sure, people at max level with have their gear nerfed as they now max level it. But that is what already happens to people leveling now anyway since they can't get drops any longer in their next level. Everyone is already using gear a tier too low when they level up to a new tier. This is not a big deal.

What will suck is having to replace all that gear, but that is an issue with or without One Tamriel. One Tamriel is not stopping them from raising the max gear level. The majority of players not wanting them to do that is what is stopping them.

Your explanation wasn't convincing.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

NiclasFridholm wrote: »

They already stated it will happen this year...

No they didn't. They said they will let us know when (and if) an increase was coming.

As I explained, it's impossible to raise the gear cap without getting rid of One Tamriel, so I don't imagine we'll be getting a gear cap increase any time soon, if ever.

I don't get why raising the gear cap would have any problem with One Tamriel. You just move all NPCs and mobs to that new max level. You scale everything CP160 and below to the new cap.

Sure, people at max level with have their gear nerfed as they now max level it. But that is what already happens to people leveling now anyway since they can't get drops any longer in their next level. Everyone is already using gear a tier too low when they level up to a new tier. This is not a big deal.

What will suck is having to replace all that gear, but that is an issue with or without One Tamriel. One Tamriel is not stopping them from raising the max gear level. The majority of players not wanting them to do that is what is stopping them.

Your explanation wasn't convincing.

Increasing the gear cap requires raising the gear cap in each new expansion zone.

When WoW releases a new expansion, you need new gear to tackle the content because all the enemies there are at the new level cap.

When ESO releases a new expansion, all enemies are at the same level as the enemies in the rest of the game.

You would need to increase the level cap for each new zone if you wanted to increase the gear cap, thus putting an end to the concept of One Tamriel.

Therefore, OT means you cannot have an increasing gear cap.

Sure you can technically raise the gear cap for the entire game, but that violates a basic game design principle. You are destroying all sense of progression as you are making previously accessible content inaccessible.

danno8 wrote: »

1 YEAR OLD NECRO THREAD!!

We got one guy posting three times to necro the thread, another guy double posting his reply to the first guy.

Give this thread the peace it deserves and let it RIP.