So we are ok with the fact that 70% of the pvp population is nightblades?

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ok since this gets brought up every time - made up stats - lets look at pvp killcounter stats:

I can provide killcounter stats for PC-EU daggerfall covenant vivec roughly 40% soloing 30% zergsurfing 30% grpplay up to 6 peole since morrowind release:

31mio AP made
55000 kills

by classes killed:

19% templar
25% sorc
34% nightblade
16% dragonknight
6% warden

For PC-EU ebonheart pact roughly 50% solo 30% zergsurfing 20% grpplay up to 6 people since homestead:

43mio AP made
77000 kills

by classes killed:

22% templar
27% sorc
33% nightblade
16% dragonknight
2% warden

I´d argue based on these personal stats that nbs being overrepresented in pvp is not only a perception problem but also pvp relality (and sorcs to a lesser extend).
Also based on people i play with/talk to having similar stats (if they track them).
Whether that means if they´re OP or not i won´t comment on.

Player number killed is not representive - since u are playing a mSorc. That also explains low kill counter on Dks and wardens(reflect skills). Sorc has the best kit in the game to kill squishy medium armor builds. U would need to track classes seen and not killed.

Edit: I also die and kill more on my stamblade as on a tanky spec

@Murador178

Actually it´s not. I generally try to end every fight one way or the other unless i get heavily outnumbered or my enemy runs away/forces a draw.

Since i run a build that has no NB counters slotted apart from curse (no streak, no rml) and rely on spellpower/speed potions my build is exceptionally bad at killing nbs.
The hardest class for me to kill (harder than DKs) are sorcs that know how to 123 shields - yet they´re my second most killed.

Also enemy class while in grp or zergsurfing is irrelevant. It´s curse finisher pulse/reach next target.

If you´re thinking about making an argument about different classes being represented by type of gameplay (ie more sorcs and nbs solo/roaming and dks/templar objective based) i´d like to proactively counter that argument with stats for my mNB:

PC-EU daggerfall covenant 10% solo/zergsurfing 90% in grp between 4 and 6 people around objectives since clockwork:

3 million ap made
7200 kills

by classes

20% templar
24% sorc
38% nightblade
14% dragonknight
4% warden

Generally when i play NB we have a stationary playstyle and fight until we win or die against higher numbers. That means we kill what´s available class wise. There are more nbs available than wardens or dks - you don´t want to hear it but it´s true.

Subjectively i´d even say the stats on my sorcs reaching back for a year+ favor nbs as they were less common back then than they are now - but that´s indeed purely subjective.

Also tracking classes seen hardly works - because nbs revolve around not being seen eh?

Nbs followed by sorcs are for sure the most played spec in cyrodil. But are wardens rly only 2-4% of the PvP population. If u read the forum QQ about stam warden u might think they are more like 40% .

I don't know how far back his statistic reaches but if it's a while before wardens got introduced - you've got your answer. Plus they are still behind a paywall.

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Sotha Sil EU is 99% Nightblades.

You think that's bad, it's 106% Nightblades in NA.

Sandman929 · May 2018

This thread is 93.5% anecdotal, but there are a lot of NB's, easily 64.72% and 56.8% of them are stamina leaving 43.2% as magblades and 67% of those use a destro staff. It's such a popular class to 54% of people because they fancy themselves as movie ninjas and 78% of those would-be movie ninjas at one time in their lives owned throwing stars and real "authentic" ninja shoes.

Sevn · May 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

NBs are not 70% of the PvP population.

But those people who deny that NBs are the most commonly played class in Cyrodiil are likely NBS who are overly sensitive to any implication that they are OP.

The Truth hurts.

I agree, it’s definitely not 70%, I’d wager closer to 40%. Maybe higher in battlegrounds and imperial city.

How many are any good? I constantly see these large random numbers pulled out of thin air, but no mention of how terrible most of them are, and most of them are terrible. Damn is losing out on those easy kills because they cloak away to escape certain death THAT important to you lot?

[removed comment] The numbers aren’t random, check out Derra’s recent kill stats.

Is your class over represented? Yes. But I don’t really care what people play. So long as it’s fun for you. If someone else doesn’t like it, they are free to do something about it.

Is your class popular because it’s borderline overpowered? Probably? But again. I really don’t care. I don’t think nightblade needs a nerf, no more than you’ve already received.

Just because I state a few facts, you think I have a problem with it. Next patch magblade, magSorc and Stamwarden are meta, having 30%+ of the PVP population playing any one of those isn’t going to trigger me. People enjoy winning and play classes that win easily.

Your stats state the majority of kills are NB's yes? Must not be an easy class to play if you are killing so many no?

VaranisArano · May 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

This again?

Based on my highly anecdotal evidence of how fast my "Kill Enemy Class" quests fill, nightblades fill fastest, but not so significantly faster than Sorcs, Dragonkights, and Templars that I would say they make up 70% of the population.

But then, I tend to run with an organized raid and thus fight zergs and other PVP guilds, so perhaps my perception is skewed since I see less small group, solo, and gankers.

In other words, statistics with no proof make it hard to take your point seriously. Our individual perceptions very much skew what we see happening in PVP.

Slightly less anecdotal from my Stam Warden's Kill Counter stats. I started PVPing after Morrowind, obviously. Again, I mostly PVP with an organized raid.

Total kills: 4103, 2505 players killed
Most killed class: Templars
Templars 26.23%
DKs 18.52%
Nightblades 20.5%
Sorcs 22.47%
Wardens 12.29%

Thats surprising, honestly, I was expecting more nightblades. Most of my deaths come from, nightblades and sorcs, but I dont think I can come to a conclusion about their numbers from that, since those are also the classes with executes and strong offensive anti-group spells so the very classes Id expect to get the most kills.

Sevn · May 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

NBs are not 70% of the PvP population.

But those people who deny that NBs are the most commonly played class in Cyrodiil are likely NBS who are overly sensitive to any implication that they are OP.

The Truth hurts.

I agree, it’s definitely not 70%, I’d wager closer to 40%. Maybe higher in battlegrounds and imperial city.

How many are any good? I constantly see these large random numbers pulled out of thin air, but no mention of how terrible most of them are, and most of them are terrible. Damn is losing out on those easy kills because they cloak away to escape certain death THAT important to you lot?

The same % as other classes.

There certainly are a lot of terrible templars and terrible sorcerers out there for sure. Yet that does not stop NBs (and other "enemy" classes) from whining about "unkillable BoL healbots" and shield-stacking does it? Everyone wants easy kills. Why do you suppose the stealth high burst damage archetype in all games is so popular?

Rogues are popular for a variety of reasons as are ranged magic builds in fantasy games. I play a variety of classes in pvp and NB's is one of them, not because they provide easy kills, they don't and I'd die more often if not for cloak, but because I like the rogue nature of assassins.

I'm sure many play NB's for similar reasons, providing easy kills not being one of them, but easy escape from certain death more likely. If I enjoyed magic builds I'd just swap cloak for shieldstacking to prevent certain death as I see so many others do.

"Everyone wants easy kills". Why even pvp then? What's the point of fighting a bunch of potatoes? Might as well just beat up on a bunch of npc's as I see no difference. Very enlightening I must say.

LonePirate · May 2018

If you were serious about triggering a change here, you should have mentioned PVE instead of PVP in your thread title. PVP is the forgotten ghetto of ESO when it comes to developer attention.

ascan7 · May 2018

You know, 83% of the statistics are made with random numbers

PROVE ME WRONG! saying that my statistic is unvalid will only strenghten my point that statistics are unreliable! MUAHAHAHAHA!

JPcrazysquirrel3 · May 2018

87.63623623% of people believe this thread reeks heavily of guar dung and should have probably originally been posted in the PvP forums and not the PTS one.

ak_pvp · May 2018

Lucky28 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Edgy and skyrim-y so popular as, good escape, good defense/mitigation, good damage, good mobility, good sustain. Just a very easy class.

The only thing they straight up lack is good healing, but that is made up for by cloak mitigating damage taken wayy too much.

they're not really a "very easy class". the easiest classes to play are magicka sorc and stamina warden by a country mile.

NB's where the funnest class to play in large part because of shade and there skills where unique.

They are fun, but they are still incredibly easy, stamden of course, it has the innate tankiness to make up for mistakes as well as a strong heal/class defense. Sorc, kinda, shielding and the 1-2-3 combo is easy, but not nearly as effective as NB.

NyassaV wrote: »

Uhhh, No? Coming from someone who mains the class infamous for blocking and applying buffs this is a little silly. Sure that idiotic sniper on the hill who abuses cloak may have it easy but thats just a few styles of play, just like blocking and applying buffs are a few styles of play. Some DKs don't do that much blocking just like some nightblades don't do that much cloaking.

Yeah, my main blocks and applys buffs, but due to sustain issues, lack of escape and mobility, and questionable damage/killing ability (Potentially really high, falls heavily when building for defense which NB doesn't have) means its one of the hardest to play solo OW, where cloakblades are easy.

But say, if DK is so strong, why don't we give cloak the wings/block treatment eh

higher cost based on no. of enemies around, or a cap and type limit to what is cloaked, enemy can casts, ability misses, but once you hit 4, you get revealed.

Waffennacht · May 2018

ascan7 wrote: »

You know, 83% of the statistics are made with random numbers

PROVE ME WRONG! saying that my statistic is unvalid will only strenghten my point that statistics are unreliable! MUAHAHAHAHA!

I'm 90% sure that at least 50% of this sentence can be proven by 85% of the %'s in this thread.

Yes

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · May 2018

ZoS running the numbers on these kind of things. When we all thought heavy armor was used by everyone ZoS showed the numbers it was pretty even. When things were out of balance they nerf bat like crazy. Just cause you notice Nightblades more does not make it real.

Remember High Elves the most popular race for Magic it’s only 14% of the population with ten races 10% would be fair but no it’s not as wild as you would think.

L2P play to your classes strengths not someone elses.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · May 2018

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

There are alot of nbs in pvp, didnt used to be. But at some point it got very crowded. I main a nb now, and have been for over 2 years, id really like to see cloak completely loose its invisibility if that would mean there would be less ppl playing a nb.

OPs first post was 70% of the gaming community is nightblades which is false as zos posted their stats either a month or 2 months ago that the highest player count to class ratio is sorcs(go figure). cloak will lose its invisibility at some point so thatll impact the nightblade trend but there will still be nightblade mains.

Was that pvp or the entire game? Pvp has been dominated by stam nbs for awhile but sorcs and nbs have been the most popular for years.

I’m sure if zos said that they meant overall. Either way I’m skeptical about their pvp stats since they said the average pvp player only makes 10k ap a day.

Well with that the PvE quester and zergs lower the average AP rate a lot and the guys that jump in for less then an hour most likely are counted too

Tarrocan · May 2018

Funny ,so i am the only one who sees only healer bots?

I think NB are rly the smallest Problem in Cyro

TheValar85 · May 2018

oh it is not good definetly. but also 99% DK also not good.

ccfeeling · May 2018

I would like to change to other class , just need a free class change token .

PVP crying babies are so noisy .

Lucky28 · May 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Edgy and skyrim-y so popular as, good escape, good defense/mitigation, good damage, good mobility, good sustain. Just a very easy class.

The only thing they straight up lack is good healing, but that is made up for by cloak mitigating damage taken wayy too much.

they're not really a "very easy class". the easiest classes to play are magicka sorc and stamina warden by a country mile.

NB's where the funnest class to play in large part because of shade and there skills where unique.

They are fun, but they are still incredibly easy, stamden of course, it has the innate tankiness to make up for mistakes as well as a strong heal/class defense. Sorc, kinda, shielding and the 1-2-3 combo is easy, but not nearly as effective as NB.

NyassaV wrote: »

Uhhh, No? Coming from someone who mains the class infamous for blocking and applying buffs this is a little silly. Sure that idiotic sniper on the hill who abuses cloak may have it easy but thats just a few styles of play, just like blocking and applying buffs are a few styles of play. Some DKs don't do that much blocking just like some nightblades don't do that much cloaking.

Yeah, my main blocks and applys buffs, but due to sustain issues, lack of escape and mobility, and questionable damage/killing ability (Potentially really high, falls heavily when building for defense which NB doesn't have) means its one of the hardest to play solo OW, where cloakblades are easy.

But say, if DK is so strong, why don't we give cloak the wings/block treatment eh higher cost based on no. of enemies around, or a cap and type limit to what is cloaked, enemy can casts, ability misses, but once you hit 4, you get revealed.

meh, i started out playing a sorc then switched to magblade. sorc really is the easier class by a long shot, wards and streak is far more forgiving than shade and cloak.

anyways. no one likes getting zerged so in games like this the most popular classes are always going to be the classes with escapes, it's not really odd nor is it unexpected, shouldn't shock anyone.

omgiztim · May 2018

LarsS wrote: »

On PC EU/Vivec there is 17 nightblades among the top hundred just now.

Lol, sounds like you need more night blades. Since 17/100 is only 17% not 70%. Which means 83% of the top players are something other than night blades so they must not be OP.

I see more sorcs and dks on EU vivec.

uso245 · May 2018

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

There are alot of nbs in pvp, didnt used to be. But at some point it got very crowded. I main a nb now, and have been for over 2 years, id really like to see cloak completely loose its invisibility if that would mean there would be less ppl playing a nb.

OPs first post was 70% of the gaming community is nightblades which is false as zos posted their stats either a month or 2 months ago that the highest player count to class ratio is sorcs(go figure). cloak will lose its invisibility at some point so thatll impact the nightblade trend but there will still be nightblade mains.

Was that pvp or the entire game? Pvp has been dominated by stam nbs for awhile but sorcs and nbs have been the most popular for years.

I’m sure if zos said that they meant overall. Either way I’m skeptical about their pvp stats since they said the average pvp player only makes 10k ap a day.

Only reason there is a lot of stam blades currently is because some streamers released a bow build recently and everyone is jumping at it.

Toast_STS · May 2018

I'm OK with it but I will miss empowering leaps with radiant magelight

Prabooo · May 2018

DuskMarine wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

There are alot of nbs in pvp, didnt used to be. But at some point it got very crowded. I main a nb now, and have been for over 2 years, id really like to see cloak completely loose its invisibility if that would mean there would be less ppl playing a nb.

OPs first post was 70% of the gaming community is nightblades which is false as zos posted their stats either a month or 2 months ago that the highest player count to class ratio is sorcs(go figure). cloak will lose its invisibility at some point so thatll impact the nightblade trend but there will still be nightblade mains.

?

Slick_007 · May 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'd ask for your source, but we both know you're just pulling numbers out of your ass.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'd ask for your source, but we both know you're just pulling numbers out of your ass.

Dunno how to feel about this.

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

ascan7 wrote: »

You know, 83% of the statistics are made with random numbers

PROVE ME WRONG! saying that my statistic is unvalid will only strenghten my point that statistics are unreliable! MUAHAHAHAHA!

I'm 90% sure that at least 50% of this sentence can be proven by 85% of the %'s in this thread.

Yes

60% of the time Cloak works every time.

Feanor · May 2018

As a EU Sotha Sil regular I encounter a lot of NBs, but I also agree that there are not that many really good ones. Those that have the skill (or run the most cheese in some cases) are very hard to beat. I’m trying to cut down on my passionate NB detestation and instead hate the cheese in the game.

nCats · May 2018

Definitely numerous in PC EU BGs during the time I play. But to be fair they are not the most annoying opponent to me. Healbots stacked together, or some permaroot spammers break the fluidity of the fight much more.

It is in general true that eso pvp is annoying, compared to some even more hardcore pvp titles. But there is no easy fix for that. C'est la vie.

GrigorijMalahevich · May 2018

34% of my kill count are nightblades...

70% is obviously incorrect, but nightblades in EU are the most popular class by a very high margin.

Altercator · May 2018

Nightblades and Sorcs are glass cannons, Templars and DKs are tanks. Just because you kill less tanks does not mean there are more glass cannons in the game.

Joy_Division · May 2018

Altercator wrote: »

Nightblades and Sorcs are glass cannons, Templars and DKs are tanks. Just because you kill less tanks does not mean there are more glass cannons in the game.

Yes it does because the glass cannons streak/cloak away while the tanks just hold block and die.

Ragnarock41 · May 2018

Altercator wrote: »

Nightblades and Sorcs are glass cannons, Templars and DKs are tanks. Just because you kill less tanks does not mean there are more glass cannons in the game.

Here is another person who does not understand how eso PvP works. There are no glass cannons. You're only a glass cannon if you build your character as one. If you're wearing divines on your stamblade/magsorc that means those classes have overperforming defence mechanics.nothing else.