If shield breaker is a thing

Gilvoth · May 2018

steussy wrote: »

Get rid of Oblivion damage Zenimax! This does not promote skillful play. I personally do ok against it if it's a 1v1 but in a 1vX with someone sitting back and spamming this garbage it's a pain in the butt.

it doesnt matter what set the opponents are wearing in zerg fights or multiple opponent fights.
if several people are attacking me i die, as should we ALL.
sorcerers are able to survive multiple opponents not because they are skilled, no, its because they have shields stacked and able to face tank Groups of people.
1 man should not be able to kill a zerg. and right now as allways shield stacking sorcerers ARE able to survive alot of people attacking them because of thier shields and thats not balance and thats not fair to the rest of us.
your not suppose to be able to survive against multiple opponents like that. shield breaker set allows the rest of us a chance to balance that fight in 1 v 1 but just like ALL zerg against Zerg fights people die when there is multiple opponents no matter what set the enemies are wearing.

edit:
this is why people hate seeing a shield stacked sorcerer jumping up and down taunting a fight from afar.
right now if you go to cryodiil you will see shield stacked sorcerers jumping up and down flagging that they are unbeatable.
shield breaker set gives the rest of us a chance to have a fair fight against shield stacking sorcerers and as i said earlier it is only light attacks and it takes a long time to win, during that time you usually get beat down from thier 70,000 magicka build.

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this thread again?
shield spamming sorcerers are simply overpowered and unkillable tanks, this set was made to balance that out and isn't even that strong and takes a long time because it is infact only light attacks that are being used and it takes a long time to light attack shield spam sorc to death and many times the sorc kills you while trying to kill them, if anything the damage should be buffed.

sorcerers right now just as allways since shield breaker was made ARE killing people that wear shield breaker set.
right now in cryodiil you will find sorcerers killing people with shield breaker set just as often as sorcerers dying to people wearing the shield breaker set.

the set was made to balance out shield spamming sorcs
i fought a sorc last night that was not using shields as his main defence and he did just fine, it was a normal fight. the only thing this shield breaker set does is light attack slowly and takes forever but eventually brings down those stacked shields, just like it is suppose to do. it is only light attacks, and if you keep shield spamming and not fighting then the set works as intended.

right now just as allways if sorcs shield stack their pretty much unkillable unless you have a zerg, so the devs made this set to counter that, and it works properly and is balanced, it is not new and has been around for a few years, so its not like this was a new concept that wasnt thought out, it is thought out well and works like it is suppose to, everything is the same as it was when the shield breaker set was made, and we dont have any way of killing shield stacking sorcerers without it.

the only way to counter shield stacking is shield breaker it makes it a fair fight against shield stackers.

JUST STUN A SORC OR MAG TOON AND THEY DIE, ITS NOT HARD

2/3 of my characters that I PvP with are magicka and this is far from accurate. If you're dying from being stunned then you need to improve your build, and stop unnecessarily wasting your stamina elsewhere. I am very difficult to kill on my magDK and on my magSorc. And recovering from burst is very easy with undeath + healing ward. The damage shields in this game are just as cheesey as Zaan or Soul Assault.

ezio45 · May 2018

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Needs a buff.

Look at the blue champion point stars. I can increase damage against heavy armor users using:

Physical Weapon Experts 35% to light attacks

Master at Arms 25% to direct damage

Mighty 15% to all physical damage

Piercing between 16.7% if I have min penetration and they have max resistance

Precise Strikes 16.7% when I crit

So my light attack damage against heavy armor users can be buffed by 108.4%, and all my other direct damage attacks can be buffed by 91.7% with CP.

My bleed-dot damage can be buffed by 75% against them, since piercing does nothing and physical weapons expert do nothing for my bleeds. My non-bleed dots can get buffed by 91.7%

Against medium armor,

it's the same, except i'll get less out of PIercing, most likely by about 5%. So bleeds will do the same and everything else will be buffed by 5% less than against heavy armor.

Against light armor,

Precise strikes is useless, because you can't crit damage shields

Piercing is useless because resistance is already very low, and doesn't factor into penetration

light attacking is useless half the time because they are ranged, so physical weapons expert is only half as effective

Dots are purgable, so thaumaturge is useless

So i can only buff my direct damage by:

40% on regular abilities, plus 25% when they are using a damage shield, so 65% max

75% with light attacks, but I won't be able to hit nearly as many as I would against a melee build, so more like 57.5%. With a damage shield, we're looking at effectively 82.5%

Dots can only be increased by 40% and 25% against shielded opponents, so 65%

So this is to say that in order to just increase my damage against light armor users to a level that is still more than 20% weaker than it is against any other type of armor, I have to invest in champion point that does nothing to anyone who isn't wearing a damage shield, which is insanely unbalanced.

So no, friend, shield breaker doesn't require a nerf. It needs to twice as much damage, and the champion point star that increases damage against shielded opponents needs to be doubled to keep light armor in line with the other types of armor, or else, the end result is an unbalanceable game.

shieldbreaker is just a band aid for the fact that CP dramatically favors light armor in terms of scaling. Learn how to heal.

you already made a point as to WHY it needs a nerf, we already have low resistance, oblivion bypasses that too and lower health. I dont know what build your running but its not hard to kill a light armor shield stacker in cryo, stun attack repeat probably twice and your golden. your damage should be 20% weaker against shield because if the back there not up 24/7 if it runs out and your stunned your insta dead when that shield is up we have less health and less resistance than the other armor types.

i dont need to learn how to heal you just need to git guud and learn how to stun so you can quit relying on a cheap set to bypass already low resist low health target

Gilvoth · May 2018

.

ezio45 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Needs a buff.

Look at the blue champion point stars. I can increase damage against heavy armor users using:

Physical Weapon Experts 35% to light attacks

Master at Arms 25% to direct damage

Mighty 15% to all physical damage

Piercing between 16.7% if I have min penetration and they have max resistance

Precise Strikes 16.7% when I crit

So my light attack damage against heavy armor users can be buffed by 108.4%, and all my other direct damage attacks can be buffed by 91.7% with CP.

My bleed-dot damage can be buffed by 75% against them, since piercing does nothing and physical weapons expert do nothing for my bleeds. My non-bleed dots can get buffed by 91.7%

Against medium armor,

it's the same, except i'll get less out of PIercing, most likely by about 5%. So bleeds will do the same and everything else will be buffed by 5% less than against heavy armor.

Against light armor,

Precise strikes is useless, because you can't crit damage shields

Piercing is useless because resistance is already very low, and doesn't factor into penetration

light attacking is useless half the time because they are ranged, so physical weapons expert is only half as effective

Dots are purgable, so thaumaturge is useless

So i can only buff my direct damage by:

40% on regular abilities, plus 25% when they are using a damage shield, so 65% max

75% with light attacks, but I won't be able to hit nearly as many as I would against a melee build, so more like 57.5%. With a damage shield, we're looking at effectively 82.5%

Dots can only be increased by 40% and 25% against shielded opponents, so 65%

So this is to say that in order to just increase my damage against light armor users to a level that is still more than 20% weaker than it is against any other type of armor, I have to invest in champion point that does nothing to anyone who isn't wearing a damage shield, which is insanely unbalanced.

So no, friend, shield breaker doesn't require a nerf. It needs to twice as much damage, and the champion point star that increases damage against shielded opponents needs to be doubled to keep light armor in line with the other types of armor, or else, the end result is an unbalanceable game.

shieldbreaker is just a band aid for the fact that CP dramatically favors light armor in terms of scaling. Learn how to heal.

you already made a point as to WHY it needs a nerf, we already have low resistance, oblivion bypasses that too and lower health. I dont know what build your running but its not hard to kill a light armor shield stacker in cryo, stun attack repeat probably twice and your golden. your damage should be 20% weaker against shield because if the back there not up 24/7 if it runs out and your stunned your insta dead when that shield is up we have less health and less resistance than the other armor types.

i dont need to learn how to heal you just need to git guud and learn how to stun so you can quit relying on a cheap set to bypass already low resist low health target

again, that is simply not true. you guys build is "pure" damage and your only defence is shields, i have even seen sorcerer videos that were able to face tank zergs because of thier build and they have all 7 pieces divines and they were killing people in 2 hits, just massive damage and the whole time the only reason they survived was because of thier stacked shields.

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

.

ezio45 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Needs a buff.

Look at the blue champion point stars. I can increase damage against heavy armor users using:

Physical Weapon Experts 35% to light attacks

Master at Arms 25% to direct damage

Mighty 15% to all physical damage

Piercing between 16.7% if I have min penetration and they have max resistance

Precise Strikes 16.7% when I crit

So my light attack damage against heavy armor users can be buffed by 108.4%, and all my other direct damage attacks can be buffed by 91.7% with CP.

My bleed-dot damage can be buffed by 75% against them, since piercing does nothing and physical weapons expert do nothing for my bleeds. My non-bleed dots can get buffed by 91.7%

Against medium armor,

it's the same, except i'll get less out of PIercing, most likely by about 5%. So bleeds will do the same and everything else will be buffed by 5% less than against heavy armor.

Against light armor,

Precise strikes is useless, because you can't crit damage shields

Piercing is useless because resistance is already very low, and doesn't factor into penetration

light attacking is useless half the time because they are ranged, so physical weapons expert is only half as effective

Dots are purgable, so thaumaturge is useless

So i can only buff my direct damage by:

40% on regular abilities, plus 25% when they are using a damage shield, so 65% max

75% with light attacks, but I won't be able to hit nearly as many as I would against a melee build, so more like 57.5%. With a damage shield, we're looking at effectively 82.5%

Dots can only be increased by 40% and 25% against shielded opponents, so 65%

So this is to say that in order to just increase my damage against light armor users to a level that is still more than 20% weaker than it is against any other type of armor, I have to invest in champion point that does nothing to anyone who isn't wearing a damage shield, which is insanely unbalanced.

So no, friend, shield breaker doesn't require a nerf. It needs to twice as much damage, and the champion point star that increases damage against shielded opponents needs to be doubled to keep light armor in line with the other types of armor, or else, the end result is an unbalanceable game.

shieldbreaker is just a band aid for the fact that CP dramatically favors light armor in terms of scaling. Learn how to heal.

you already made a point as to WHY it needs a nerf, we already have low resistance, oblivion bypasses that too and lower health. I dont know what build your running but its not hard to kill a light armor shield stacker in cryo, stun attack repeat probably twice and your golden. your damage should be 20% weaker against shield because if the back there not up 24/7 if it runs out and your stunned your insta dead when that shield is up we have less health and less resistance than the other armor types.

i dont need to learn how to heal you just need to git guud and learn how to stun so you can quit relying on a cheap set to bypass already low resist low health target

again, that is simply not true. you guys build is "pure" damage and your only defence is shields, i have even seen sorcerer videos that were able to face tank zergs because of thier build and they have all 7 pieces divines and they were killing people in 2 hits, just massive damage and the whole time the only reason they survived was because of thier stacked shields.

It's honestly easier to kill someone in 7 heavy than it is to kill a magsorc in 7 light with equal skill.

Fjorynn · May 2018

If you are that desperate you can use lightning staff with knight slayer. You can cheese it with 5 torug's pact, infused weapon with oblivion dmg enchant. That will definitely hit dodge rollers and perma blockers. You can't make a build that has no counter play to it and is effective against every other build. Except lag blades...

Btw if you have to rely on oblivion damage in PvP you are doing something wrong. Personally I don't think it's that good as it's somewhat niche.

I had a tough time writing this up without sneaking in the cheeky L2P phrase.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Biro123 · May 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

steussy wrote: »

Get rid of Oblivion damage Zenimax! This does not promote skillful play. I personally do ok against it if it's a 1v1 but in a 1vX with someone sitting back and spamming this garbage it's a pain in the butt.

it doesnt matter what set the opponents are wearing in zerg fights or multiple opponent fights.
if several people are attacking me i die, as should we ALL.
sorcerers are able to survive multiple opponents not because they are skilled, no, its because they have shields stacked and able to face tank Groups of people.
1 man should not be able to kill a zerg. and right now as allways shield stacking sorcerers ARE able to survive alot of people attacking them because of thier shields and thats not balance and thats not fair to the rest of us.
your not suppose to be able to survive against multiple opponents like that. shield breaker set allows the rest of us a chance to balance that fight in 1 v 1 but just like ALL zerg against Zerg fights people die when there is multiple opponents no matter what set the enemies are wearing.

edit:
this is why people hate seeing a shield stacked sorcerer jumping up and down taunting a fight from afar.
right now if you go to cryodiil you will see shield stacked sorcerers jumping up and down flagging that they are unbeatable.
shield breaker set gives the rest of us a chance to have a fair fight against shield stacking sorcerers and as i said earlier it is only light attacks and it takes a long time to win, during that time you usually get beat down from thier 70,000 magicka build.

Plsase, just listen to yourself. Let me break it down a bit..

Shields are the absolute worst defence mechanism in game when against multiple opponents. Let me explain.

Lets say we have a 3v3 one is using a shield for defence, lets say its an average 12k.
One uses dodge.
One uses block and heavy armour.

The three opponents all concentrate their attacks on one target at a time, with a light attack/surprise attack, each which hits for 2k + 8k non crit.

The dodger avoids all hits and takes zero damage.
The blocker, reduces it by 80% overall, taking 2-3k damage to health (depending on crits). Has rally and vigour running, and recovers over half of it almost instantly.
The shield is dropped by one SA + 2 light attacks (8+2+2). The next SA crits, taking off 13k health, next doesn't, so another 8k, light attack does 2k. Total 23k damage to health.

Out of those three, which one is dead?..

How does it work with more attackers? Dodge still untouched, blocker takes a little more dmg, shield user is still dead.

Let me spell this out. IT IS NOT SHIELDS THAT LET GOOD SORCS SURVIVE ZERGS.

For crying out loud, please learn some mechanics and a little math before spouting out this bullcrap.

Amdar_Godkiller · May 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Needs a buff.

Look at the blue champion point stars. I can increase damage against heavy armor users using:

Physical Weapon Experts 35% to light attacks

Master at Arms 25% to direct damage

Mighty 15% to all physical damage

Piercing between 16.7% if I have min penetration and they have max resistance

Precise Strikes 16.7% when I crit

So my light attack damage against heavy armor users can be buffed by 108.4%, and all my other direct damage attacks can be buffed by 91.7% with CP.

My bleed-dot damage can be buffed by 75% against them, since piercing does nothing and physical weapons expert do nothing for my bleeds. My non-bleed dots can get buffed by 91.7%

Against medium armor,

it's the same, except i'll get less out of PIercing, most likely by about 5%. So bleeds will do the same and everything else will be buffed by 5% less than against heavy armor.

Against light armor,

Precise strikes is useless, because you can't crit damage shields

Piercing is useless because resistance is already very low, and doesn't factor into penetration

light attacking is useless half the time because they are ranged, so physical weapons expert is only half as effective

Dots are purgable, so thaumaturge is useless

So i can only buff my direct damage by:

40% on regular abilities, plus 25% when they are using a damage shield, so 65% max

75% with light attacks, but I won't be able to hit nearly as many as I would against a melee build, so more like 57.5%. With a damage shield, we're looking at effectively 82.5%

Dots can only be increased by 40% and 25% against shielded opponents, so 65%

So this is to say that in order to just increase my damage against light armor users to a level that is still more than 20% weaker than it is against any other type of armor, I have to invest in champion point that does nothing to anyone who isn't wearing a damage shield, which is insanely unbalanced.

So no, friend, shield breaker doesn't require a nerf. It needs to twice as much damage, and the champion point star that increases damage against shielded opponents needs to be doubled to keep light armor in line with the other types of armor, or else, the end result is an unbalanceable game.

shieldbreaker is just a band aid for the fact that CP dramatically favors light armor in terms of scaling. Learn how to heal.

you already made a point as to WHY it needs a nerf, we already have low resistance, oblivion bypasses that too and lower health. I dont know what build your running but its not hard to kill a light armor shield stacker in cryo, stun attack repeat probably twice and your golden. your damage should be 20% weaker against shield because if the back there not up 24/7 if it runs out and your stunned your insta dead when that shield is up we have less health and less resistance than the other armor types.

i dont need to learn how to heal you just need to git guud and learn how to stun so you can quit relying on a cheap set to bypass already low resist low health target

I've never used shield breaker, and I do alright in medium, but that doesn't mean that it's balanced with light armor currently.

Our main defense is line of sight, so don't come whining to me about your low resistances, which are like 2-4K less than medium armor's, before even getting into your actual defense, damage shields, which give HP in an amount that scales with your ability to deal damage, can't be critted, penetrated, and has no cooldown. Stop pretending like your resistances matter one bit to you as a magbuild.

YOU DON'T DESERVE ANY RESISTANCES! It's a fricking piece of cloth, it should give 0% resistance not 13%-15%.

And none of this changes the fact that everything I posted is 100% provably true. Go roll as a Stam DK in medium for a few weeks, and GIT GUD, yourself instead of hiding behind your free hp shield.

Or if you're on XBX NA, look for KraftySynystra. I won't turn down the duel, I promise.

ak_pvp · May 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

.

ezio45 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Needs a buff.

Look at the blue champion point stars. I can increase damage against heavy armor users using:

Physical Weapon Experts 35% to light attacks

Master at Arms 25% to direct damage

Mighty 15% to all physical damage

Piercing between 16.7% if I have min penetration and they have max resistance

Precise Strikes 16.7% when I crit

So my light attack damage against heavy armor users can be buffed by 108.4%, and all my other direct damage attacks can be buffed by 91.7% with CP.

My bleed-dot damage can be buffed by 75% against them, since piercing does nothing and physical weapons expert do nothing for my bleeds. My non-bleed dots can get buffed by 91.7%

Against medium armor,

it's the same, except i'll get less out of PIercing, most likely by about 5%. So bleeds will do the same and everything else will be buffed by 5% less than against heavy armor.

Against light armor,

Precise strikes is useless, because you can't crit damage shields

Piercing is useless because resistance is already very low, and doesn't factor into penetration

light attacking is useless half the time because they are ranged, so physical weapons expert is only half as effective

Dots are purgable, so thaumaturge is useless

So i can only buff my direct damage by:

40% on regular abilities, plus 25% when they are using a damage shield, so 65% max

75% with light attacks, but I won't be able to hit nearly as many as I would against a melee build, so more like 57.5%. With a damage shield, we're looking at effectively 82.5%

Dots can only be increased by 40% and 25% against shielded opponents, so 65%

So this is to say that in order to just increase my damage against light armor users to a level that is still more than 20% weaker than it is against any other type of armor, I have to invest in champion point that does nothing to anyone who isn't wearing a damage shield, which is insanely unbalanced.

So no, friend, shield breaker doesn't require a nerf. It needs to twice as much damage, and the champion point star that increases damage against shielded opponents needs to be doubled to keep light armor in line with the other types of armor, or else, the end result is an unbalanceable game.

shieldbreaker is just a band aid for the fact that CP dramatically favors light armor in terms of scaling. Learn how to heal.

you already made a point as to WHY it needs a nerf, we already have low resistance, oblivion bypasses that too and lower health. I dont know what build your running but its not hard to kill a light armor shield stacker in cryo, stun attack repeat probably twice and your golden. your damage should be 20% weaker against shield because if the back there not up 24/7 if it runs out and your stunned your insta dead when that shield is up we have less health and less resistance than the other armor types.

i dont need to learn how to heal you just need to git guud and learn how to stun so you can quit relying on a cheap set to bypass already low resist low health target

again, that is simply not true. you guys build is "pure" damage and your only defence is shields, i have even seen sorcerer videos that were able to face tank zergs because of thier build and they have all 7 pieces divines and they were killing people in 2 hits, just massive damage and the whole time the only reason they survived was because of thier stacked shields.

That used to be possible aye, back when triple stack pet builds with pre nerf sustain and pre nerf desert rose, combined with treehugging and pirate skelly. Not possible nowadays.

Gilvoth · May 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

.

ezio45 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Needs a buff.

Look at the blue champion point stars. I can increase damage against heavy armor users using:

Physical Weapon Experts 35% to light attacks

Master at Arms 25% to direct damage

Mighty 15% to all physical damage

Piercing between 16.7% if I have min penetration and they have max resistance

Precise Strikes 16.7% when I crit

So my light attack damage against heavy armor users can be buffed by 108.4%, and all my other direct damage attacks can be buffed by 91.7% with CP.

My bleed-dot damage can be buffed by 75% against them, since piercing does nothing and physical weapons expert do nothing for my bleeds. My non-bleed dots can get buffed by 91.7%

Against medium armor,

it's the same, except i'll get less out of PIercing, most likely by about 5%. So bleeds will do the same and everything else will be buffed by 5% less than against heavy armor.

Against light armor,

Precise strikes is useless, because you can't crit damage shields

Piercing is useless because resistance is already very low, and doesn't factor into penetration

light attacking is useless half the time because they are ranged, so physical weapons expert is only half as effective

Dots are purgable, so thaumaturge is useless

So i can only buff my direct damage by:

40% on regular abilities, plus 25% when they are using a damage shield, so 65% max

75% with light attacks, but I won't be able to hit nearly as many as I would against a melee build, so more like 57.5%. With a damage shield, we're looking at effectively 82.5%

Dots can only be increased by 40% and 25% against shielded opponents, so 65%

So this is to say that in order to just increase my damage against light armor users to a level that is still more than 20% weaker than it is against any other type of armor, I have to invest in champion point that does nothing to anyone who isn't wearing a damage shield, which is insanely unbalanced.

So no, friend, shield breaker doesn't require a nerf. It needs to twice as much damage, and the champion point star that increases damage against shielded opponents needs to be doubled to keep light armor in line with the other types of armor, or else, the end result is an unbalanceable game.

shieldbreaker is just a band aid for the fact that CP dramatically favors light armor in terms of scaling. Learn how to heal.

you already made a point as to WHY it needs a nerf, we already have low resistance, oblivion bypasses that too and lower health. I dont know what build your running but its not hard to kill a light armor shield stacker in cryo, stun attack repeat probably twice and your golden. your damage should be 20% weaker against shield because if the back there not up 24/7 if it runs out and your stunned your insta dead when that shield is up we have less health and less resistance than the other armor types.

i dont need to learn how to heal you just need to git guud and learn how to stun so you can quit relying on a cheap set to bypass already low resist low health target

again, that is simply not true. you guys build is "pure" damage and your only defence is shields, i have even seen sorcerer videos that were able to face tank zergs because of thier build and they have all 7 pieces divines and they were killing people in 2 hits, just massive damage and the whole time the only reason they survived was because of thier stacked shields.

That used to be possible aye, back when triple stack pet builds with pre nerf sustain and pre nerf desert rose, combined with treehugging and pirate skelly. Not possible nowadays.

sorcerers are still doing it.
thier entire build is just damage. nothing is placed into defence and then when they shield stack thier untouchable.
it is still happening today even.
the only thing that makes it a fair fight with them is shield breaker.
and by the way you guys keep ignoring what im saying about the set ingeneral.

IE:
shield breaker only works with light attacks on shields.
and it takes a long time to actually kill a shield stacker with light attacks, especially when they hide and run around objects and you cant aim at them, making them live a very long time.
during that time, they are attacking and out damaging you and the shield breaker wearer dies.

in addition to that, if you go to cryodiil right now and use shield breaker set on sorcs, they immediately aim Right For that guy and kill him within a few seconds.

if anything, shield breaker needs to be increased in damage.

Biro123 · May 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

.

ezio45 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Needs a buff.

Look at the blue champion point stars. I can increase damage against heavy armor users using:

Physical Weapon Experts 35% to light attacks

Master at Arms 25% to direct damage

Mighty 15% to all physical damage

Piercing between 16.7% if I have min penetration and they have max resistance

Precise Strikes 16.7% when I crit

So my light attack damage against heavy armor users can be buffed by 108.4%, and all my other direct damage attacks can be buffed by 91.7% with CP.

My bleed-dot damage can be buffed by 75% against them, since piercing does nothing and physical weapons expert do nothing for my bleeds. My non-bleed dots can get buffed by 91.7%

Against medium armor,

it's the same, except i'll get less out of PIercing, most likely by about 5%. So bleeds will do the same and everything else will be buffed by 5% less than against heavy armor.

Against light armor,

Precise strikes is useless, because you can't crit damage shields

Piercing is useless because resistance is already very low, and doesn't factor into penetration

light attacking is useless half the time because they are ranged, so physical weapons expert is only half as effective

Dots are purgable, so thaumaturge is useless

So i can only buff my direct damage by:

40% on regular abilities, plus 25% when they are using a damage shield, so 65% max

75% with light attacks, but I won't be able to hit nearly as many as I would against a melee build, so more like 57.5%. With a damage shield, we're looking at effectively 82.5%

Dots can only be increased by 40% and 25% against shielded opponents, so 65%

So this is to say that in order to just increase my damage against light armor users to a level that is still more than 20% weaker than it is against any other type of armor, I have to invest in champion point that does nothing to anyone who isn't wearing a damage shield, which is insanely unbalanced.

So no, friend, shield breaker doesn't require a nerf. It needs to twice as much damage, and the champion point star that increases damage against shielded opponents needs to be doubled to keep light armor in line with the other types of armor, or else, the end result is an unbalanceable game.

shieldbreaker is just a band aid for the fact that CP dramatically favors light armor in terms of scaling. Learn how to heal.

you already made a point as to WHY it needs a nerf, we already have low resistance, oblivion bypasses that too and lower health. I dont know what build your running but its not hard to kill a light armor shield stacker in cryo, stun attack repeat probably twice and your golden. your damage should be 20% weaker against shield because if the back there not up 24/7 if it runs out and your stunned your insta dead when that shield is up we have less health and less resistance than the other armor types.

i dont need to learn how to heal you just need to git guud and learn how to stun so you can quit relying on a cheap set to bypass already low resist low health target

again, that is simply not true. you guys build is "pure" damage and your only defence is shields, i have even seen sorcerer videos that were able to face tank zergs because of thier build and they have all 7 pieces divines and they were killing people in 2 hits, just massive damage and the whole time the only reason they survived was because of thier stacked shields.

That used to be possible aye, back when triple stack pet builds with pre nerf sustain and pre nerf desert rose, combined with treehugging and pirate skelly. Not possible nowadays.

sorcerers are still doing it.
thier entire build is just damage. nothing is placed into defence and then when they shield stack thier untouchable.
it is still happening today even.
the only thing that makes it a fair fight with them is shield breaker.
and by the way you guys keep ignoring what im saying about the set ingeneral.

IE:
shield breaker only works with light attacks on shields.
and it takes a long time to actually kill a shield stacker with light attacks, especially when they hide and run around objects and you cant aim at them, making them live a very long time.
during that time, they are attacking and out damaging you and the shield breaker wearer dies.

in addition to that, if you go to cryodiil right now and use shield breaker set on sorcs, they immediately aim Right For that guy and kill him within a few seconds.

if anything, shield breaker needs to be increased in damage.

Please learn something about the class before spouting this bs..Seriously you are basing your sorc knowledge from info that's 3 years out of date.
Do you have any idea how much max stam, stam sustain and mag sustain a sorc needs to build to be able to survive vs a zerg? Probably almost as much stam recov as you have in your stamblade.

When a sorc specs all into damage, they are left with under 10k stam and have no recov. That's one dodge and one break-free. Then they are stuck - unable to move, unable to re-shield. Yet with a full shield-stack from almost 60k magica - they still drop instantly to attacks from multiple opponents... vs single opponents, sorc damage has been so gutted that they only get outlasted, run dry, cant shield and are left with 17k health and no impen/resists.. that may then be a fair fight for you - but vs most other opponents, the sorc explodes.

Again, YOU ARE FOCUSING ON THE WRONG THING!!!

I mean, lets look at one of the better open-world sorc builds.... Shackle/Lich..... One is a sustain set. The other is part damage, part sustain.. It also uses well-fitted traits.. defensive traits.. That's 1.5 sustain sets out of 2..... Not exactly 'stacking all damage' is it?

Actually I don't know why I bother. You will ignore this like my last post. You will refuse to learn anything about the class, and therefore never actually learn how to fight one. Honestly it speaks volumes about your gameplay if you think using shieldbreaker only makes it a fair fight......

Gilvoth · May 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

.

ezio45 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Needs a buff.

Look at the blue champion point stars. I can increase damage against heavy armor users using:

Physical Weapon Experts 35% to light attacks

Master at Arms 25% to direct damage

Mighty 15% to all physical damage

Piercing between 16.7% if I have min penetration and they have max resistance

Precise Strikes 16.7% when I crit

So my light attack damage against heavy armor users can be buffed by 108.4%, and all my other direct damage attacks can be buffed by 91.7% with CP.

My bleed-dot damage can be buffed by 75% against them, since piercing does nothing and physical weapons expert do nothing for my bleeds. My non-bleed dots can get buffed by 91.7%

Against medium armor,

it's the same, except i'll get less out of PIercing, most likely by about 5%. So bleeds will do the same and everything else will be buffed by 5% less than against heavy armor.

Against light armor,

Precise strikes is useless, because you can't crit damage shields

Piercing is useless because resistance is already very low, and doesn't factor into penetration

light attacking is useless half the time because they are ranged, so physical weapons expert is only half as effective

Dots are purgable, so thaumaturge is useless

So i can only buff my direct damage by:

40% on regular abilities, plus 25% when they are using a damage shield, so 65% max

75% with light attacks, but I won't be able to hit nearly as many as I would against a melee build, so more like 57.5%. With a damage shield, we're looking at effectively 82.5%

Dots can only be increased by 40% and 25% against shielded opponents, so 65%

So this is to say that in order to just increase my damage against light armor users to a level that is still more than 20% weaker than it is against any other type of armor, I have to invest in champion point that does nothing to anyone who isn't wearing a damage shield, which is insanely unbalanced.

So no, friend, shield breaker doesn't require a nerf. It needs to twice as much damage, and the champion point star that increases damage against shielded opponents needs to be doubled to keep light armor in line with the other types of armor, or else, the end result is an unbalanceable game.

shieldbreaker is just a band aid for the fact that CP dramatically favors light armor in terms of scaling. Learn how to heal.

you already made a point as to WHY it needs a nerf, we already have low resistance, oblivion bypasses that too and lower health. I dont know what build your running but its not hard to kill a light armor shield stacker in cryo, stun attack repeat probably twice and your golden. your damage should be 20% weaker against shield because if the back there not up 24/7 if it runs out and your stunned your insta dead when that shield is up we have less health and less resistance than the other armor types.

i dont need to learn how to heal you just need to git guud and learn how to stun so you can quit relying on a cheap set to bypass already low resist low health target

again, that is simply not true. you guys build is "pure" damage and your only defence is shields, i have even seen sorcerer videos that were able to face tank zergs because of thier build and they have all 7 pieces divines and they were killing people in 2 hits, just massive damage and the whole time the only reason they survived was because of thier stacked shields.

That used to be possible aye, back when triple stack pet builds with pre nerf sustain and pre nerf desert rose, combined with treehugging and pirate skelly. Not possible nowadays.

sorcerers are still doing it.
thier entire build is just damage. nothing is placed into defence and then when they shield stack thier untouchable.
it is still happening today even.
the only thing that makes it a fair fight with them is shield breaker.
and by the way you guys keep ignoring what im saying about the set ingeneral.

IE:
shield breaker only works with light attacks on shields.
and it takes a long time to actually kill a shield stacker with light attacks, especially when they hide and run around objects and you cant aim at them, making them live a very long time.
during that time, they are attacking and out damaging you and the shield breaker wearer dies.

in addition to that, if you go to cryodiil right now and use shield breaker set on sorcs, they immediately aim Right For that guy and kill him within a few seconds.

if anything, shield breaker needs to be increased in damage.

Please learn something about the class before spouting this bs..Seriously you are basing your sorc knowledge from info that's 3 years out of date.

i am basing my information from what i see in eso "Today" and with todays builds.
all my statements are true and honest. if you dont believe me then go cryodiil and sit back and watch those who are wearing shield breaker fight the sorcerers and you will see what i am referring to.

Biro123 · May 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

.

ezio45 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Needs a buff.

Look at the blue champion point stars. I can increase damage against heavy armor users using:

Physical Weapon Experts 35% to light attacks

Master at Arms 25% to direct damage

Mighty 15% to all physical damage

Piercing between 16.7% if I have min penetration and they have max resistance

Precise Strikes 16.7% when I crit

So my light attack damage against heavy armor users can be buffed by 108.4%, and all my other direct damage attacks can be buffed by 91.7% with CP.

My bleed-dot damage can be buffed by 75% against them, since piercing does nothing and physical weapons expert do nothing for my bleeds. My non-bleed dots can get buffed by 91.7%

Against medium armor,

it's the same, except i'll get less out of PIercing, most likely by about 5%. So bleeds will do the same and everything else will be buffed by 5% less than against heavy armor.

Against light armor,

Precise strikes is useless, because you can't crit damage shields

Piercing is useless because resistance is already very low, and doesn't factor into penetration

light attacking is useless half the time because they are ranged, so physical weapons expert is only half as effective

Dots are purgable, so thaumaturge is useless

So i can only buff my direct damage by:

40% on regular abilities, plus 25% when they are using a damage shield, so 65% max

75% with light attacks, but I won't be able to hit nearly as many as I would against a melee build, so more like 57.5%. With a damage shield, we're looking at effectively 82.5%

Dots can only be increased by 40% and 25% against shielded opponents, so 65%

So this is to say that in order to just increase my damage against light armor users to a level that is still more than 20% weaker than it is against any other type of armor, I have to invest in champion point that does nothing to anyone who isn't wearing a damage shield, which is insanely unbalanced.

So no, friend, shield breaker doesn't require a nerf. It needs to twice as much damage, and the champion point star that increases damage against shielded opponents needs to be doubled to keep light armor in line with the other types of armor, or else, the end result is an unbalanceable game.

shieldbreaker is just a band aid for the fact that CP dramatically favors light armor in terms of scaling. Learn how to heal.

you already made a point as to WHY it needs a nerf, we already have low resistance, oblivion bypasses that too and lower health. I dont know what build your running but its not hard to kill a light armor shield stacker in cryo, stun attack repeat probably twice and your golden. your damage should be 20% weaker against shield because if the back there not up 24/7 if it runs out and your stunned your insta dead when that shield is up we have less health and less resistance than the other armor types.

i dont need to learn how to heal you just need to git guud and learn how to stun so you can quit relying on a cheap set to bypass already low resist low health target

again, that is simply not true. you guys build is "pure" damage and your only defence is shields, i have even seen sorcerer videos that were able to face tank zergs because of thier build and they have all 7 pieces divines and they were killing people in 2 hits, just massive damage and the whole time the only reason they survived was because of thier stacked shields.

That used to be possible aye, back when triple stack pet builds with pre nerf sustain and pre nerf desert rose, combined with treehugging and pirate skelly. Not possible nowadays.

sorcerers are still doing it.
thier entire build is just damage. nothing is placed into defence and then when they shield stack thier untouchable.
it is still happening today even.
the only thing that makes it a fair fight with them is shield breaker.
and by the way you guys keep ignoring what im saying about the set ingeneral.

IE:
shield breaker only works with light attacks on shields.
and it takes a long time to actually kill a shield stacker with light attacks, especially when they hide and run around objects and you cant aim at them, making them live a very long time.
during that time, they are attacking and out damaging you and the shield breaker wearer dies.

in addition to that, if you go to cryodiil right now and use shield breaker set on sorcs, they immediately aim Right For that guy and kill him within a few seconds.

if anything, shield breaker needs to be increased in damage.

Please learn something about the class before spouting this bs..Seriously you are basing your sorc knowledge from info that's 3 years out of date.

i am basing my information from what i see in eso "Today" and with todays builds.
all my statements are true and honest. if you dont believe me then go cryodiil and sit back and watch those who are wearing shield breaker fight the sorcerers and you will see what i am referring to.

AHH, I see. assumptions, based on only watching.... Of course you know exactly what build is being run on a class you've never played just by watching...

See I only thought I knew - based on playing sorc. Ive experimented with most known and many unknown builds. I know what can be for with it with what build based on many many hours of playing with those builds... but what do I know?

Your assumptions obviously know best.

Minalan · May 2018

Got to love this thread, full of autism laced Sorc rants that have no bearing in reality.

They aren’t changing shieldbreaker, even if they should. A properly built nightblade can delete a Sorc with it in seconds.

They also aren’t changing the new instant death unavoidable Sorc cage combo. I can’t wait until certain people here get a taste of that.

DuskMarine · May 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

i want a set that does something against roll dodge and heavy armor

perfect counter to heavy armor be a dk and roll the ultimate that rips away their physical resistance and destroy them.

IAVITNI · May 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

sorcerers are still doing it.
thier entire build is just damage. nothing is placed into defence and then when they shield stack thier untouchable.
it is still happening today even.
the only thing that makes it a fair fight with them is shield breaker.
and by the way you guys keep ignoring what im saying about the set ingeneral.

IE:
shield breaker only works with light attacks on shields.
and it takes a long time to actually kill a shield stacker with light attacks, especially when they hide and run around objects and you cant aim at them, making them live a very long time.
during that time, they are attacking and out damaging you and the shield breaker wearer dies.

in addition to that, if you go to cryodiil right now and use shield breaker set on sorcs, they immediately aim Right For that guy and kill him within a few seconds.

if anything, shield breaker needs to be increased in damage.

First off, undisputed truth is that stamblades and magsorcs are the top two solo classes for 1vx. Their high burst and high mobility means they are the best equipped to kill large numbers of less skilled players, which is any 1vx.

The reason why you see all those magsorcs running around x'ing people is not because the class is OP but because you have OP players playing the class. The ability to escape a zerg, ergo choose your fights, is the number one reason players gravitate to magsorc. In any of those fights, those players would perform just as well or even better. Mag sorc is not FotM. That title currently belongs to stamblades and stamdens to a lesser extent.

A heavy armor DK or magPlar can "out-tank" any magsorc. Those magsorcs are surviving by using line of sight, not because they are innately tanky.

You have 0 knowledge of the class and sound like you run around in full divines on a snipe blade that runs Shield Breaker. If all you're doing is light attacking a magsorc on your full divine night blade no duh you're going to die. It's been mathematically proven that even running HoTs won't allow a magsorc to outheal Shield Breaker. It's a broken set. If Knight Slayer dealt 2k damage every light attack to anyone holding block or if it made light attacks deal 2k damage to anyone who had roll dodge fatigue it would be overpowered. It's the same thing as Shield Breaker. It hard counters a classes only defence and is stronger than any alternative heal.

Twohothardware · May 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

i want a set that does something against roll dodge and heavy armor

You already have multiple things, they're called Major Defile, Penetration, and Crit Damage, all things Shield stackers are immune to. You're never going to run into more a couple of people on the whole server running Shield Breaker while a StamNB with a Major Defile Incap is everywhere.

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER · May 2018

Your dodgebreaker is soul assault.

Galarthor · May 2018

First, 10000000000% of 0 is still 0. So an increase by 108% against Heavy Armor might still amount to a lower overall damage increase compared to Light or Medium Armor. Don't know the exact numbers, but your reasoning is flawed.

Twohothardware wrote: »

You already have multiple things, they're called Major Defile, Penetration, and Crit Damage, all things Shield stackers are immune to. You're never going to run into more a couple of people on the whole server running Shield Breaker while a StamNB with a Major Defile Incap is everywhere.

Major Defile affects shield users the same way as it does others.

Penetration does not affect shields because shields have 0 resistance and already take increased damage. Having shields afffected by penetration would effectively be double jeopardy.

Shields are not affected by Crit because shields themselves can't crit. It is therefore balanced. It's a design choice made by ZOS. Quit whining about it.

The big difference is, that magicka sorcs basically only got one defensive mechanism: the shields. Most other classes and builds utilize a combination of defensive mechanisms. For ecample: dodge roll & cloak. Dodge Roll & heal. Heal & shield. Block & heal. etc. Thus the adverse effects of a set like shield breaker can be countered by the second defensive mechanism while refraining from using the tool that procs the set. The cost of doing so is not too high the opponents damage is also reduced due to the now worthless 5pc bonus.

Sorc's do not have to option. They only have their shields. And if they don't use their shields they will be killed instantly by the damage abilities that are paired with the shield breaker proccing light attacks. That's why Shield Breaker is so cancerous; especially with the high damage it deals (~10% to 15% of HP roughly every second).

Healing Ward with it 6 second delay and strength depending on the missing HP when being cast is utterly useless against this set. If you cast the shield after the first hit (90% HP left) you will lose another 60& HP before the shield heals you for 10 to 20% HP. So best case scenario you got 50% HP left after the heal. So you instantly recast Healing Ward - now with a decently sized heal. You will take another 60% damage before it heals you. But 50%-60% = -10% -> you are dead.
This little exercise assumes that you are only taking 10% of HP damage per proc, that your Healing Wards actually survive the 6 seconds, and that you are not taking any other damage. The first assumptions can realistic, but the latter two are not. The light attack procing Shield Breaker also deals damage. And the light attack is usually weaved in with some other damage ability. These other damage abilities are forcing the sorc to permanently shield up.

Besides, you got a CP that increases any and all damage dealt to shields.
There is no such thing for any of the other damage mitigation mechanisms.
There is no extra damage to blocking targets.
There is no extra damage to dodging targets.
There is no extra damage to stealthing/sneaking targets.
There is no extra damage to sprinting targets.
There is no extra healing reduction without already having a healing reduction via a debuff. So you class/built either already has a healing debuff or it will not decrease healing at all. Unlike the CP against shields that affects all damage abilities/classes/builds without any constraints other than that the abilities needs to deal damage.

So yes: it is a very cancerous set. And other builds don't have to deal with similar crap.

The only reason why not more people are using it is because it's utterly useless against non-shield users and other classes with secondary defensive mechanisms such a Breath of Life in case of a MagPlar.

Problem is also, because of those secondary mitigation tools you cannot design a set that equally affects other classes as shield breaker torments magicka sorcerers. For example: in the case of a Stamina Nightblade such a set must deal 10%-15% HP unavoidable damage if the target dodges or cloaks and at the same time these 10%-15% could not be healed away either. So the only remaining defensive tools are the ones they do not ahve access to or cannot use effectively. Imagine the *** on the forums if such a set would exist. For Magplars it would have to proc on Shields or Block (depending on the build) and be unhealable ... No other class has to suffer a similarly OP set - and rightly so.

But neither should sorcs have to. No set should allow you to kill somebody within a few seconds by simply spamming Light Attacks!

Minalan · May 2018

Galarthor wrote: »

First, 10000000000% of 0 is still 0. So an increase by 108% against Heavy Armor might still amount to a lower overall damage increase compared to Light or Medium Armor. Don't know the exact numbers, but your reasoning is flawed.

Twohothardware wrote: »

You already have multiple things, they're called Major Defile, Penetration, and Crit Damage, all things Shield stackers are immune to. You're never going to run into more a couple of people on the whole server running Shield Breaker while a StamNB with a Major Defile Incap is everywhere.

Major Defile affects shield users the same way as it does others.

Penetration does not affect shields because shields have 0 resistance and already take increased damage. Having shields afffected by penetration would effectively be double jeopardy.

Shields are not affected by Crit because shields themselves can't crit. It is therefore balanced. It's a design choice made by ZOS. Quit whining about it.

The big difference is, that magicka sorcs basically only got one defensive mechanism: the shields. Most other classes and builds utilize a combination of defensive mechanisms. For ecample: dodge roll & cloak. Dodge Roll & heal. Heal & shield. Block & heal. etc. Thus the adverse effects of a set like shield breaker can be countered by the second defensive mechanism while refraining from using the tool that procs the set. The cost of doing so is not too high the opponents damage is also reduced due to the now worthless 5pc bonus.

Sorc's do not have to option. They only have their shields. And if they don't use their shields they will be killed instantly by the damage abilities that are paired with the shield breaker proccing light attacks. That's why Shield Breaker is so cancerous; especially with the high damage it deals (~10% to 15% of HP roughly every second).

Healing Ward with it 6 second delay and strength depending on the missing HP when being cast is utterly useless against this set. If you cast the shield after the first hit (90% HP left) you will lose another 60& HP before the shield heals you for 10 to 20% HP. So best case scenario you got 50% HP left after the heal. So you instantly recast Healing Ward - now with a decently sized heal. You will take another 60% damage before it heals you. But 50%-60% = -10% -> you are dead.
This little exercise assumes that you are only taking 10% of HP damage per proc, that your Healing Wards actually survive the 6 seconds, and that you are not taking any other damage. The first assumptions can realistic, but the latter two are not. The light attack procing Shield Breaker also deals damage. And the light attack is usually weaved in with some other damage ability. These other damage abilities are forcing the sorc to permanently shield up.

Besides, you got a CP that increases any and all damage dealt to shields.
There is no such thing for any of the other damage mitigation mechanisms.
There is no extra damage to blocking targets.
There is no extra damage to dodging targets.
There is no extra damage to stealthing/sneaking targets.
There is no extra damage to sprinting targets.
There is no extra healing reduction without already having a healing reduction via a debuff. So you class/built either already has a healing debuff or it will not decrease healing at all. Unlike the CP against shields that affects all damage abilities/classes/builds without any constraints other than that the abilities needs to deal damage.

So yes: it is a very cancerous set. And other builds don't have to deal with similar crap.

The only reason why not more people are using it is because it's utterly useless against non-shield users and other classes with secondary defensive mechanisms such a Breath of Life in case of a MagPlar.

Problem is also, because of those secondary mitigation tools you cannot design a set that equally affects other classes as shield breaker torments magicka sorcerers. For example: in the case of a Stamina Nightblade such a set must deal 10%-15% HP unavoidable damage if the target dodges or cloaks and at the same time these 10%-15% could not be healed away either. So the only remaining defensive tools are the ones they do not ahve access to or cannot use effectively. Imagine the *** on the forums if such a set would exist. For Magplars it would have to proc on Shields or Block (depending on the build) and be unhealable ... No other class has to suffer a similarly OP set - and rightly so.

But neither should sorcs have to. No set should allow you to kill somebody within a few seconds by simply spamming Light Attacks!

Facts. Logic. Excellent understanding of game mechanics.

Lord-Otto · May 2018

Can't wait to see certain forumblades encounter Sload's. Might finally rip the veil off their eyes...
#inb4nbtears

CatchMeTrolling · May 2018

Remove the debuff from consecutive dodge rolling if that’s the case so I can perma roll and create more threads like this.

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Got to love this thread, full of autism laced Sorc rants that have no bearing in reality.

They aren’t changing shieldbreaker, even if they should. A properly built nightblade can delete a Sorc with it in seconds.

They also aren’t changing the new instant death unavoidable Sorc cage combo. I can’t wait until certain people here get a taste of that.

Yay no counterplay

Biro123 · May 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

First, 10000000000% of 0 is still 0. So an increase by 108% against Heavy Armor might still amount to a lower overall damage increase compared to Light or Medium Armor. Don't know the exact numbers, but your reasoning is flawed.

Twohothardware wrote: »

You already have multiple things, they're called Major Defile, Penetration, and Crit Damage, all things Shield stackers are immune to. You're never going to run into more a couple of people on the whole server running Shield Breaker while a StamNB with a Major Defile Incap is everywhere.

Major Defile affects shield users the same way as it does others.

Penetration does not affect shields because shields have 0 resistance and already take increased damage. Having shields afffected by penetration would effectively be double jeopardy.

Shields are not affected by Crit because shields themselves can't crit. It is therefore balanced. It's a design choice made by ZOS. Quit whining about it.

The big difference is, that magicka sorcs basically only got one defensive mechanism: the shields. Most other classes and builds utilize a combination of defensive mechanisms. For ecample: dodge roll & cloak. Dodge Roll & heal. Heal & shield. Block & heal. etc. Thus the adverse effects of a set like shield breaker can be countered by the second defensive mechanism while refraining from using the tool that procs the set. The cost of doing so is not too high the opponents damage is also reduced due to the now worthless 5pc bonus.

Sorc's do not have to option. They only have their shields. And if they don't use their shields they will be killed instantly by the damage abilities that are paired with the shield breaker proccing light attacks. That's why Shield Breaker is so cancerous; especially with the high damage it deals (~10% to 15% of HP roughly every second).

Healing Ward with it 6 second delay and strength depending on the missing HP when being cast is utterly useless against this set. If you cast the shield after the first hit (90% HP left) you will lose another 60& HP before the shield heals you for 10 to 20% HP. So best case scenario you got 50% HP left after the heal. So you instantly recast Healing Ward - now with a decently sized heal. You will take another 60% damage before it heals you. But 50%-60% = -10% -> you are dead.
This little exercise assumes that you are only taking 10% of HP damage per proc, that your Healing Wards actually survive the 6 seconds, and that you are not taking any other damage. The first assumptions can realistic, but the latter two are not. The light attack procing Shield Breaker also deals damage. And the light attack is usually weaved in with some other damage ability. These other damage abilities are forcing the sorc to permanently shield up.

Besides, you got a CP that increases any and all damage dealt to shields.
There is no such thing for any of the other damage mitigation mechanisms.
There is no extra damage to blocking targets.
There is no extra damage to dodging targets.
There is no extra damage to stealthing/sneaking targets.
There is no extra damage to sprinting targets.
There is no extra healing reduction without already having a healing reduction via a debuff. So you class/built either already has a healing debuff or it will not decrease healing at all. Unlike the CP against shields that affects all damage abilities/classes/builds without any constraints other than that the abilities needs to deal damage.

So yes: it is a very cancerous set. And other builds don't have to deal with similar crap.

The only reason why not more people are using it is because it's utterly useless against non-shield users and other classes with secondary defensive mechanisms such a Breath of Life in case of a MagPlar.

Problem is also, because of those secondary mitigation tools you cannot design a set that equally affects other classes as shield breaker torments magicka sorcerers. For example: in the case of a Stamina Nightblade such a set must deal 10%-15% HP unavoidable damage if the target dodges or cloaks and at the same time these 10%-15% could not be healed away either. So the only remaining defensive tools are the ones they do not ahve access to or cannot use effectively. Imagine the *** on the forums if such a set would exist. For Magplars it would have to proc on Shields or Block (depending on the build) and be unhealable ... No other class has to suffer a similarly OP set - and rightly so.

But neither should sorcs have to. No set should allow you to kill somebody within a few seconds by simply spamming Light Attacks!

Facts. Logic. Excellent understanding of game mechanics.

Facts? Logic? When has that ever worked with these people?

dsalter · May 2018

they could just buff knight slayer slightly for heavy armor ones.
but dodge rollers themselves is tricky, unless they make a set that "tethers" the enemy to you and when they break this tether (usual 8-10yards) they get stunned for 2 seconds and increase the cost of their next break free by 100% within 3 seconds, if they use break free it grows into dodge roll costs 100% more for 3 seconds. give it a 12 second CD and theres a new dodge roll spammer counter.

forces them to decide if they should wait the stun out or risk it and burn a ton of stamina.

Galarthor · May 2018

dsalter wrote: »

they could just buff knight slayer slightly for heavy armor ones.
but dodge rollers themselves is tricky, unless they make a set that "tethers" the enemy to you and when they break this tether (usual 8-10yards) they get stunned for 2 seconds and increase the cost of their next break free by 100% within 3 seconds, if they use break free it grows into dodge roll costs 100% more for 3 seconds. give it a 12 second CD and theres a new dodge roll spammer counter.

forces them to decide if they should wait the stun out or risk it and burn a ton of stamina.

Knight Slayer does not even come close to being equally detrimental to Heavy Armor builds as Shield Breaker is to sorcs.
1. The damage dealt in percentage of Max Health is lower (9% instead of somewhere between 10% and 15%).
2. It only procs on Heavy attacks which is considerable less effective and efficient than the Light attack proccing of Shield Breaker.
3. It affects all classes and builds. In fact it affects lower HP builds more adversly than high HP builds. Why? Because while the percentage is the same, the remaining health after a hit is lower and this the low HP build player is more likely to die from the next attack - i.e. High HP builds got more time to counter the effects. Therefore, the Knight Slayer set does not even come close to being a Shield Breaker equivalent for perma blockers, High HP builds, and Heavy Armor builds.
4. These Heavy Armor builds usually got sufficient heal to outheal the 9% damage every few seconds. In fact, you can even outheal it with a healing ward, which is not the case for Shield Breaker.
5. Especially the Staves Heavy Attacks are relative easily dodgeable or avoidable using LOS.

So in summary: The Knight Slayer set deals way less damage per time unit than the Shield Breaker set. Its damage is also more easily avoided and outhealed. And the Knight Slayer set affects all builds more or less equally, while Shield Breaker is pretty much a "**** you sorcs" set, that has some limited (and probably unintended) impact on other builds using shields.

Your suggestions for a "dodge breaker" set are interesting but do not even come close to being as punishing to these builds as Shield Breaker is to sorcs. You need to create a set that circumvents something like 90% of their defensive capabilities, and enables you to kill the enemy within max. 10 sec by simply spamming Light Attacks. For example: in the case of a StamBlade it would not only have to punish the dodgerolling, but also sneaking, and the constant healing they get. Such a set would need to look something like this:

- 10% to 15% HP oblivion damage on each dodge.
- 10% to 15% HP oblivion damage per light attack gloabal cooldown timespan spent in stealth.
- 10% to 15% HP oblivion damage per light attack gloabal cooldown timespan spent blocking.
- Also said obvilion Damage cannot be healed by Vigor, etc - similarly to how sorcs can't outheal Shield Breaker
- With a CD equaling the global cooldown between Light Attacks.
(Sprinting not included because sorcs still got streak, despite it not being as effective and efficient to achieve LOS as sprinting is).

So the only available counter would be the defensive tools they do not have reliable or effective access to: e.g. Shields or Heals from other players. If such a set would exist you would see StamBlades bombarding the forums 24/7.

ezio45 · May 2018

i think a set that does damage based on a % of your max resistance would be good for heavy armor builds and a set that just decreases the % change of dodgeroll for a period of time would be good

Bergzorn · May 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

i think a set that does damage based on a % of your max resistance would be good for heavy armor builds and a set that just decreases the % change of dodgeroll for a period of time would be good

Or we could reward players for actively investing in the defense of their characters. No more cheesy sets, just tweak some numbers if necessary (resistances, ward and dodge roll cost, healing, damage).

Twohothardware · May 2018

Galarthor wrote: »

Major Defile affects shield users the same way as it does others.

No, not even close. When you're affected by Major Defile as a shield stacker your healing is irrelevant if you have large shields and keep them up unless the attacker has a means to deal damage past your shields which they don't unless they're wearing a set like Shield Breaker. Your survivability as a Sorc isn't based on your health left, it's based on whether your shields are up.

As a MagSorc with 3 shields you can survive your health dropping as low as 1% and reset the fight because your shields can absorb as much damage as someone full health in medium/heavy armor. Shields are also completely different from a Stamina heal like Vigor in the fact that you get the full benefit instantly and can repeatedly reapply a shield every time you take damage, with Vigor the healing is over time and when hit by Major Defile that healing over time is then also reduced by 40%+.

Watch any of the big dueling tournaments and you'll see how it's always discussed the fact that Magicka builds have the advantage due to Major Defile.

Galarthor wrote: »

Penetration does not affect shields because shields have 0 resistance and already take increased damage. Having shields afffected by penetration would effectively be double jeopardy.

What being immune to Penetration does is it means any sets that Stamina character is wearing like Spriggans or if they have the Sharpened trait on their Weapon or if they have a bunch of points invested into CP for more Penetration, all those things are giving them 0 extra damage against someone with shields up. It's like having no 5th trait on your amor, no trait on your weapon, and 40+ CP unspent when facing someone with their shields up. That is a heck of a lot of damage reduction.

The fact shields take full damage is irrelevant because the size of shields in the game have been scaled to account for being able to mitigate similar damage as someone wearing medium/heavy armor with high resistances. Bastion in the CP tree completely escaped all the nerfs last year that Stamina characters received to healing CP and gives a huge bonus to the size of shields.

Galarthor wrote: »

Shields are not affected by Crit because shields themselves can't crit. It is therefore balanced. It's a design choice made by ZOS. Quit whining about it.

Again, shields have been scaled in size to account for the fact they can't crit. If shields were able to crit and they were balanced according to that, THEN they removed the ability to crit you'd have a point. But that's not the case.

Galarthor wrote: »

The big difference is, that magicka sorcs basically only got one defensive mechanism: the shields. Most other classes and builds utilize a combination of defensive mechanisms. For ecample: dodge roll & cloak. Dodge Roll & heal. Heal & shield. Block & heal. etc. Thus the adverse effects of a set like shield breaker can be countered by the second defensive mechanism while refraining from using the tool that procs the set. The cost of doing so is not too high the opponents damage is also reduced due to the now worthless 5pc bonus.

You're joking right? Streak? Mines? Pets? The best CC in the game Rune Cage? No class in the game has the defensive capability of MagSorc outside of Nightblade Cloak and Cloak is a lot more easily countered.

I'm not gonna take the time to respond to the rest of your points right now but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying.

Biro123 · May 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Major Defile affects shield users the same way as it does others.

No, not even close. When you're affected by Major Defile as a shield stacker your healing is irrelevant if you have large shields and keep them up unless the attacker has a means to deal damage past your shields which they don't unless they're wearing a set like Shield Breaker. Your survivability as a Sorc isn't based on your health left, it's based on whether your shields are up.

As a MagSorc with 3 shields you can survive your health dropping as low as 1% and reset the fight because your shields can absorb as much damage as someone full health in medium/heavy armor. Shields are also completely different from a Stamina heal like Vigor in the fact that you get the full benefit instantly and can repeatedly reapply a shield every time you take damage, with Vigor the healing is over time and when hit by Major Defile that healing over time is then also reduced by 40%+.

Watch any of the big dueling tournaments and you'll see how it's always discussed the fact that Magicka builds have the advantage due to Major Defile.

Galarthor wrote: »

Penetration does not affect shields because shields have 0 resistance and already take increased damage. Having shields afffected by penetration would effectively be double jeopardy.

What being immune to Penetration does is it means any sets that Stamina character is wearing like Spriggans or if they have the Sharpened trait on their Weapon or if they have a bunch of points invested into CP for more Penetration, all those things are giving them 0 extra damage against someone with shields up. It's like having no 5th trait on your amor, no trait on your weapon, and 40+ CP unspent when facing someone with their shields up. That is a heck of a lot of damage reduction.

The fact shields take full damage is irrelevant because the size of shields in the game have been scaled to account for being able to mitigate similar damage as someone wearing medium/heavy armor with high resistances. Bastion in the CP tree completely escaped all the nerfs last year that Stamina characters received to healing CP and gives a huge bonus to the size of shields.

Galarthor wrote: »

Shields are not affected by Crit because shields themselves can't crit. It is therefore balanced. It's a design choice made by ZOS. Quit whining about it.

Again, shields have been scaled in size to account for the fact they can't crit. If shields were able to crit and they were balanced according to that, THEN they removed the ability to crit you'd have a point. But that's not the case.

Galarthor wrote: »

The big difference is, that magicka sorcs basically only got one defensive mechanism: the shields. Most other classes and builds utilize a combination of defensive mechanisms. For ecample: dodge roll & cloak. Dodge Roll & heal. Heal & shield. Block & heal. etc. Thus the adverse effects of a set like shield breaker can be countered by the second defensive mechanism while refraining from using the tool that procs the set. The cost of doing so is not too high the opponents damage is also reduced due to the now worthless 5pc bonus.

You're joking right? Streak? Mines? Pets? The best CC in the game Rune Cage? No class in the game has the defensive capability of MagSorc outside of Nightblade Cloak and Cloak is a lot more easily countered.

I'm not gonna take the time to respond to the rest of your points right now but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying.

I'm not gonna take the time too, aside from to say 'wrong'.