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Is it time to give all players the craft bag without subcription?
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DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »#stopgivingpplthingsforfree
But... why? Do you not like free stuff? Or do you just hate other people? I mean, other people can suck, but like, not always, y'know?
people need to stop whining about something a subscription gives subs are always meant to have something nonsubs have an infinite craft bag being the thing nonsubs can do without.
I can't really disagree with how you interpret things - I mean that's completely up to you - but for my part, I don't think it's whining that the craft bag is locked behind a paywall, so much as asking if it's necessary to lock it behind a paywall. There are other reasons to sub, and the craft bag can in many ways be considered a basic necessity. Why not just lock the entire game behind a subscription like ESO used to do, in that case, right? It's a question to ask and think about, not so much someone complaining about not getting something they feel they're entitled to, from what I can tell.
My point though was why would you NOT want free stuff? Like, if ZOS could make it work, why would you be against free stuff? I have several friends who think this way, they want things to be difficult for the sake of being difficult (think Dark Souls players), and I never understood it, because I've seen the end where it locks less able people out. I mean, I'd rather have better rewards for more difficulty, not lesser rewards just being made more difficult to get. Just imagine if they gave the craft bag away for free but then gave subscribers something way cooler.
if anything was actually free life would be to easy and there wouldnt be a point to playing an mmo cause youd have everything at the start. subs are always meant to have an edge over free to play players always. whether that be in power, farming ability to armor or like the craft bag gives storage there is always meant to be something that makes subbing worth the sub. the sub is worth it cause of the craft bag. do people need it for free no way no how and if they did there would be a serious riot until they either reverted it or gave us something else worth having.1 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS would lose too much money by giving the craft bag to everyone.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stinkyremy wrote: »I agree, the craft bag is pretty much pay to win, but what you can do is fill your mules up then buy 1 month eso+, which empties their inventory, rinse , repeat.
What do you win?
More bag space is directly tied to scoring higher in PvE and PvP leader boards. Everyone knows this.2 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »#stopgivingpplthingsforfree
But... why? Do you not like free stuff? Or do you just hate other people? I mean, other people can suck, but like, not always, y'know?
people need to stop whining about something a subscription gives subs are always meant to have something nonsubs have an infinite craft bag being the thing nonsubs can do without.
I can't really disagree with how you interpret things - I mean that's completely up to you - but for my part, I don't think it's whining that the craft bag is locked behind a paywall, so much as asking if it's necessary to lock it behind a paywall. There are other reasons to sub, and the craft bag can in many ways be considered a basic necessity. Why not just lock the entire game behind a subscription like ESO used to do, in that case, right? It's a question to ask and think about, not so much someone complaining about not getting something they feel they're entitled to, from what I can tell.
My point though was why would you NOT want free stuff? Like, if ZOS could make it work, why would you be against free stuff? I have several friends who think this way, they want things to be difficult for the sake of being difficult (think Dark Souls players), and I never understood it, because I've seen the end where it locks less able people out. I mean, I'd rather have better rewards for more difficulty, not lesser rewards just being made more difficult to get. Just imagine if they gave the craft bag away for free but then gave subscribers something way cooler.
if anything was actually free life would be to easy and there wouldnt be a point to playing an mmo cause youd have everything at the start. subs are always meant to have an edge over free to play players always. whether that be in power, farming ability to armor or like the craft bag gives storage there is always meant to be something that makes subbing worth the sub. the sub is worth it cause of the craft bag. do people need it for free no way no how and if they did there would be a serious riot until they either reverted it or gave us something else worth having.
What are your thoughts on pay-to-win monetization strategies? Like I said, you could effectively be arguing for bringing back a P2P sub system (which has very clear benefits, as well as its own disadvantages) which isn't that far off from a P2W strategy. One of my main thoughts before was that the craft bag could be considered a basic necessity, aka something that significantly affects gameplay, rather than something cosmetic or efficiency related (although that last bit is extra debatable), so let's take that, just for the sake of argument, the craft bag makes it easier to "win". Would that change your opinion, and if so, why? Again, this is all from curiosity - I've never understood the viewpoint you're offering.
And to address that - what if ZOS gave the game and everything in it away for free, and was still able to stay running and giving us the same quality of content it would be able to as it is right now? What if they gave us more content, or even better content, but for free? What exactly would be the issue?@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »#stopgivingpplthingsforfree
But... why? Do you not like free stuff? Or do you just hate other people? I mean, other people can suck, but like, not always, y'know?
people need to stop whining about something a subscription gives subs are always meant to have something nonsubs have an infinite craft bag being the thing nonsubs can do without.
I can't really disagree with how you interpret things - I mean that's completely up to you - but for my part, I don't think it's whining that the craft bag is locked behind a paywall, so much as asking if it's necessary to lock it behind a paywall. There are other reasons to sub, and the craft bag can in many ways be considered a basic necessity. Why not just lock the entire game behind a subscription like ESO used to do, in that case, right? It's a question to ask and think about, not so much someone complaining about not getting something they feel they're entitled to, from what I can tell.
My point though was why would you NOT want free stuff? Like, if ZOS could make it work, why would you be against free stuff? I have several friends who think this way, they want things to be difficult for the sake of being difficult (think Dark Souls players), and I never understood it, because I've seen the end where it locks less able people out. I mean, I'd rather have better rewards for more difficulty, not lesser rewards just being made more difficult to get. Just imagine if they gave the craft bag away for free but then gave subscribers something way cooler.
if anything was actually free life would be to easy and there wouldnt be a point to playing an mmo cause youd have everything at the start. subs are always meant to have an edge over free to play players always. whether that be in power, farming ability to armor or like the craft bag gives storage there is always meant to be something that makes subbing worth the sub. the sub is worth it cause of the craft bag. do people need it for free no way no how and if they did there would be a serious riot until they either reverted it or gave us something else worth having.
What are your thoughts on pay-to-win monetization strategies? Like I said, you could effectively be arguing for bringing back a P2P sub system (which has very clear benefits, as well as its own disadvantages) which isn't that far off from a P2W strategy. One of my main thoughts before was that the craft bag could be considered a basic necessity, aka something that significantly affects gameplay, rather than something cosmetic or efficiency related (although that last bit is extra debatable), so let's take that, just for the sake of argument, the craft bag makes it easier to "win". Would that change your opinion, and if so, why? Again, this is all from curiosity - I've never understood the viewpoint you're offering.
And to address that - what if ZOS gave the game and everything in it away for free, and was still able to stay running and giving us the same quality of content it would be able to as it is right now? What if they gave us more content, or even better content, but for free? What exactly would be the issue?
what im suggesting isnt pay to win whatsoever i can suggest a game you go look at that has p2w litterally written all over it look up the game called TROVE that game is pay to win. real world money gives access to all kinds of broken stuff. plus their subscription(patron) litterally makes you more powerful. you wanna say something is pay to win look at a game that actually is pay to win before you mention that.1 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »#stopgivingpplthingsforfree
But... why? Do you not like free stuff? Or do you just hate other people? I mean, other people can suck, but like, not always, y'know?
people need to stop whining about something a subscription gives subs are always meant to have something nonsubs have an infinite craft bag being the thing nonsubs can do without.
I can't really disagree with how you interpret things - I mean that's completely up to you - but for my part, I don't think it's whining that the craft bag is locked behind a paywall, so much as asking if it's necessary to lock it behind a paywall. There are other reasons to sub, and the craft bag can in many ways be considered a basic necessity. Why not just lock the entire game behind a subscription like ESO used to do, in that case, right? It's a question to ask and think about, not so much someone complaining about not getting something they feel they're entitled to, from what I can tell.
My point though was why would you NOT want free stuff? Like, if ZOS could make it work, why would you be against free stuff? I have several friends who think this way, they want things to be difficult for the sake of being difficult (think Dark Souls players), and I never understood it, because I've seen the end where it locks less able people out. I mean, I'd rather have better rewards for more difficulty, not lesser rewards just being made more difficult to get. Just imagine if they gave the craft bag away for free but then gave subscribers something way cooler.
if anything was actually free life would be to easy and there wouldnt be a point to playing an mmo cause youd have everything at the start. subs are always meant to have an edge over free to play players always. whether that be in power, farming ability to armor or like the craft bag gives storage there is always meant to be something that makes subbing worth the sub. the sub is worth it cause of the craft bag. do people need it for free no way no how and if they did there would be a serious riot until they either reverted it or gave us something else worth having.
What are your thoughts on pay-to-win monetization strategies? Like I said, you could effectively be arguing for bringing back a P2P sub system (which has very clear benefits, as well as its own disadvantages) which isn't that far off from a P2W strategy. One of my main thoughts before was that the craft bag could be considered a basic necessity, aka something that significantly affects gameplay, rather than something cosmetic or efficiency related (although that last bit is extra debatable), so let's take that, just for the sake of argument, the craft bag makes it easier to "win". Would that change your opinion, and if so, why? Again, this is all from curiosity - I've never understood the viewpoint you're offering.
And to address that - what if ZOS gave the game and everything in it away for free, and was still able to stay running and giving us the same quality of content it would be able to as it is right now? What if they gave us more content, or even better content, but for free? What exactly would be the issue?
what im suggesting isnt pay to win whatsoever i can suggest a game you go look at that has p2w litterally written all over it look up the game called TROVE that game is pay to win. real world money gives access to all kinds of broken stuff. plus their subscription(patron) litterally makes you more powerful. you wanna say something is pay to win look at a game that actually is pay to win before you mention that.
Wasn't saying that ESO is pay-to-win. I asked how you felt about pay-to-win games.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sure give everyone the craft bag and then bring back monthly subscription to access the server and play.
Since this game has no mandatory subscription the incentives zos gives us for subbing seem well worth the $15.
Too many here think if it's not free then is has to be "pay to win".
How's about pay to keep the game financed ?3 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »#stopgivingpplthingsforfree
But... why? Do you not like free stuff? Or do you just hate other people? I mean, other people can suck, but like, not always, y'know?
people need to stop whining about something a subscription gives subs are always meant to have something nonsubs have an infinite craft bag being the thing nonsubs can do without.
I can't really disagree with how you interpret things - I mean that's completely up to you - but for my part, I don't think it's whining that the craft bag is locked behind a paywall, so much as asking if it's necessary to lock it behind a paywall. There are other reasons to sub, and the craft bag can in many ways be considered a basic necessity. Why not just lock the entire game behind a subscription like ESO used to do, in that case, right? It's a question to ask and think about, not so much someone complaining about not getting something they feel they're entitled to, from what I can tell.
My point though was why would you NOT want free stuff? Like, if ZOS could make it work, why would you be against free stuff? I have several friends who think this way, they want things to be difficult for the sake of being difficult (think Dark Souls players), and I never understood it, because I've seen the end where it locks less able people out. I mean, I'd rather have better rewards for more difficulty, not lesser rewards just being made more difficult to get. Just imagine if they gave the craft bag away for free but then gave subscribers something way cooler.
if anything was actually free life would be to easy and there wouldnt be a point to playing an mmo cause youd have everything at the start. subs are always meant to have an edge over free to play players always. whether that be in power, farming ability to armor or like the craft bag gives storage there is always meant to be something that makes subbing worth the sub. the sub is worth it cause of the craft bag. do people need it for free no way no how and if they did there would be a serious riot until they either reverted it or gave us something else worth having.
What are your thoughts on pay-to-win monetization strategies? Like I said, you could effectively be arguing for bringing back a P2P sub system (which has very clear benefits, as well as its own disadvantages) which isn't that far off from a P2W strategy. One of my main thoughts before was that the craft bag could be considered a basic necessity, aka something that significantly affects gameplay, rather than something cosmetic or efficiency related (although that last bit is extra debatable), so let's take that, just for the sake of argument, the craft bag makes it easier to "win". Would that change your opinion, and if so, why? Again, this is all from curiosity - I've never understood the viewpoint you're offering.
And to address that - what if ZOS gave the game and everything in it away for free, and was still able to stay running and giving us the same quality of content it would be able to as it is right now? What if they gave us more content, or even better content, but for free? What exactly would be the issue?
what im suggesting isnt pay to win whatsoever i can suggest a game you go look at that has p2w litterally written all over it look up the game called TROVE that game is pay to win. real world money gives access to all kinds of broken stuff. plus their subscription(patron) litterally makes you more powerful. you wanna say something is pay to win look at a game that actually is pay to win before you mention that.
Wasn't saying that ESO is pay-to-win. I asked how you felt about pay-to-win games.
without massive amounts of scaling content pay to win is boring. but nothing in eso is pay to win. nor is anything i suggested. free to play players do not need or deserve access to the craft bag.1 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭@DuskMarinewhat if ZOS gave the game and everything in it away for free, and was still able to stay running and giving us the same quality of content it would be able to as it is right now? What if they gave us more content, or even better content, but for free? What exactly would be the issue?
Edited by Marginis on May 5, 2018 12:25AM@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You just gave them the reason not to lol. You’d cancel if not for that so why should they? I mean I’m with you, the eso+ sub is more or less useless minus the craft bag and I hate paying just for that. Which is probably stupid since I don’t even use a lot of what’s not in there. It would be great if that were part of the base game though or at least someway to upgrade it.0 -
jssriot✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm a subber and would be very happy if they made the craft bag available to non-subbers too. I used to sub before there was a craft bag. There are still reason to sub---dlc access, XP bonus, research time bonus, costume dying.
The sub-only craft bag is pretty evil. It's like either you sub or you don't play at all, because if you're a player like me, one big reason you log on everyday is crafting writs and hirelings, which would quickly create an inventory management nightmare without the craft bag. And they are going ot add daily log-on rewards? I don't want to deal that, honestly. But it would be nice if I could un-sub for a couple of months, take a break and not feel dread at coming back because of not having a craft bag unless I re-sub. This alone is why when I unsub again, I probably won't ever re-sub and return to the game, unless they make the craft bag free to everyone and not make returning a pita for inventory management.PC-NA since 2015. Tired and unimpressed.2 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »#stopgivingpplthingsforfree
But... why? Do you not like free stuff? Or do you just hate other people? I mean, other people can suck, but like, not always, y'know?
people need to stop whining about something a subscription gives subs are always meant to have something nonsubs have an infinite craft bag being the thing nonsubs can do without.
I can't really disagree with how you interpret things - I mean that's completely up to you - but for my part, I don't think it's whining that the craft bag is locked behind a paywall, so much as asking if it's necessary to lock it behind a paywall. There are other reasons to sub, and the craft bag can in many ways be considered a basic necessity. Why not just lock the entire game behind a subscription like ESO used to do, in that case, right? It's a question to ask and think about, not so much someone complaining about not getting something they feel they're entitled to, from what I can tell.
My point though was why would you NOT want free stuff? Like, if ZOS could make it work, why would you be against free stuff? I have several friends who think this way, they want things to be difficult for the sake of being difficult (think Dark Souls players), and I never understood it, because I've seen the end where it locks less able people out. I mean, I'd rather have better rewards for more difficulty, not lesser rewards just being made more difficult to get. Just imagine if they gave the craft bag away for free but then gave subscribers something way cooler.
if anything was actually free life would be to easy and there wouldnt be a point to playing an mmo cause youd have everything at the start. subs are always meant to have an edge over free to play players always. whether that be in power, farming ability to armor or like the craft bag gives storage there is always meant to be something that makes subbing worth the sub. the sub is worth it cause of the craft bag. do people need it for free no way no how and if they did there would be a serious riot until they either reverted it or gave us something else worth having.
If everything was free, you would still have a level 1 character with no gear at the start. They are neither giving away nor selling max level characters with BiS gear.Edited by DaveMoeDee on May 5, 2018 12:35AM0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm a subber and would be very happy if they made the craft bag available to non-subbers too. I used to sub before there was a craft bag. There are still reason to sub---dlc access, XP bonus, research time bonus, costume dying.
The sub-only craft bag is pretty evil. It's like either you sub or you don't play at all, because if you're a player like me, one big reason you log on everyday is crafting writs and hirelings, which would quickly create an inventory management nightmare without the craft bag. And they are going ot add daily log-on rewards? I don't want to deal that, honestly. But it would be nice if I could un-sub for a couple of months, take a break and not feel dread at coming back because of not having a craft bag unless I re-sub. This alone is why when I unsub again, I probably won't ever re-sub and return to the game, unless they make the craft bag free to everyone and not make returning a pita for inventory management.
I am like what you mention. I sub a few months a year, and then I don't really play much other months. Thing is, it would be boring as hell for me to play this game 12 months a year anyway. I love this game, but 12 months would require repeating content over and over. Nah.0 -
Stewart1874✭✭✭✭✭Primary reason I sub.
I reckon they need to increase the Crowns given to subs. I think the price of content in the crownstore has grown beyond the crowns currently given.. call it inflation. Tbh it wouldn't surprise me if the price of items has been inflated to compensate for the free crowns given (cancelling out the free element of it).
More fringe benefits for subs would be a welcome sight. I think there should be a loyalty system that increases rewards based on loyalty, for example, if you sub for 3 months or longer a 5% discount in the crown store. That adds to the benefit of the free crowns.
Anyway, yeah.. no chance!PS4 - Europe - Aldmeri Dominion1 -
Toast_STS✭✭✭✭I had subbed from April 2014 - April 2018. Just cancelled it to save some money. Can't use my bank anymore and I am done crafting now I guess. The gear that I currently have on my characters will not be easy to change.
It would be nice if the sold the craft bag like the merchants in the crown store.
Edit: My ESO plus ran out the day they started the ESO+ trial and it bugged out so I didn't get crown crates or access to the free trial.Edited by Toast_STS on May 5, 2018 12:49AMVR14 DK Leaps-in-keeps0 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ESO+ is far more than a craft bag.. Anyone who says they only use it for that is either lying or not played free in so long they've forgotten how limited free actually is..3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well with Summerset we will have jewellery crafting and some new alchemy reagents. So we will have:
- basic raw material - 1 slot
- basic refined material - 1 slot
- 9 new traits materials - 9 slots
- 6 of those traits materials will have a raw material that you need to refine to get a trait material - so 6 slots
- 2 new alchemy reagents - 2 slots.
That is at least 19 new slots in bank taken by crafting materials. The problem for me is not lack of space for gear. I have 4 "mule" characters with 200 inventory upgrade and some home storage chests. The problem I can see is inventory management. Currently we have our inventory, bank, other characters (alts) inventory and home storage. Crafting stations only "see" your inventory and your bank inventory. And what will happen if we will have more crafting mats than 240 (max bank space) ? ? Suddenly non - eso+ players will lose some functionality. Suddenly in order to regain that functionality people will be forced to use eso+ just to regain what they lost. And many of non - eso+ players have bought all DLCs, and some other stuff from crown store. Does that make them some kind worse than eso+ players ?
I would suggest either making crafting bag a "one time" account upgrade (something like "Any Race Any Alliance") or just allow us to upgrade our bank further than 240 (move the cap to something like 260 - since there are more items that you need to collect & keep in order to craft stuff). The other way is just to make housing storage to be visible for crafting stations.1 -
Toast_STS✭✭✭✭ESO+ is far more than a craft bag.. Anyone who says they only use it for that is either lying or not played free in so long they've forgotten how limited free actually is..
I only play PvP. Yes there is also double bank space and Imperial City but it is not worth it for me.VR14 DK Leaps-in-keeps0 -
klowdy1✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, give the craft bag to everyone, and make this game a mandatory subscription game again. The constant whining and complaining was at least focused on actual problems back then, like balance. Now it's all about how horrible crates are, how pathetic discounts are, and how evil ZOS is for.throwing out some free stuff for playing their game.3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It seems that some of you don't get it. Crafting bag (and eso+) is optional. Crafting bag only exists so you could hoard unlimited amount of crafting materials - Want to keep 10000000 stacks of wood ? With eso+ you can !
Currently if you want to be a dedicated crafter - you don't need eso+ You can use your bank just to store crafting materials and you will be fine.
Now here is the part that worries me:
With every new motive ZOS introduces new style material. That means more slots in bank are being taken by new crafting materials (if you are doing master crafting writs to get crafting vouchers that often require random style material). Soon - with new chapter we will have jewellery crafting - more crafting materials (about 19 new crafting materials, not counting new motives / style material). That means at least 19 new slots in bank will be taken by new crafting materials at minimum (if you will not keep different level quality base & raw material).
You see where it is all going ? For a past 2 - 3 years ZOS was slowy introducing new motives (and a side affect of that was style materials). Now we will have more crafting materials. And max bank space ? It did not changed. It is still 240 slots for regular players. At some point non - eso+ players (yes even those that buy DLCs) will simply run out of space in bank. That means it will be more & more difficult to have multiple crafting characters and craft stuff in general.
It is extremely bad when a buy-to-play game is designed to force you to use something optional (eso+ crafting bag) just to be able to do basic stuff. It is even worse when it happens after some time.
As you see the issue is not crafting bag for me. It might be eso+ only feature. But If you (ZOS) introduces more & more crafting materials and the game changes over time - you should also "update" max bank space to compensate this.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on May 5, 2018 8:37AM0 -
Uviryth✭✭✭✭✭Without the crafting bag, only the fattest cats would stay subscribed, and the suits at Zenimax know that. So do you really think they will change that?0 -
Flynch✭✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »People here literally saying no to free stuff. What is wrong with you
You lose a good portion of subbers and so then the revenue slack has to be taken up elsewhere.
Guess what - they'd most likely add a limit to the limitless crafting bag and then charge you to upgrade it, much like you would with the normal bank - only entirely in crowns.1 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Without the crafting bag, only the fattest cats would stay subscribed, and the suits at Zenimax know that. So do you really think they will change that?
They could atleast have a premium type of account like mostly all other MMO's do, IE: Pay for 1 month become premium if you were F2p and have perks but not as many as Vip Access.0
