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These constant uptraders are really getting on my nerves
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jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is the direct answer to those pushing for a global auction house: now you have it, enjoy it!
There exist an addon that effectively allows to short circuit the guild traders mechanism.
This lets people see hundreds of guild traders in 10 seconds and to know where to immediately go and relist items at inflated price.
You demanded the global auction house. You got it. Or the equivalent of it.
And now you whine because you found out it was not the panacea, right?
On the contrary, this defeats the main reason people give for opposing an auction house. They constantly say that the present system protects against this sort of thing, when it turns out that it does no such thing.
This does not defeat a "reason".
This is about circumventing it and achieve 50% of what would be without it.
Make a real AH, and you'll have 100% of it, that is, things would just get worse.
you bet.
if a global ah came in i would be buying and flipping like crazy.... because i could.1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »Honestly the rich cats that constantly empty the market of certain goods and then upsell it are really annoying...i understand that you want to make money - but how much more do you need if you already have millions? Besides, what i can't understand - new items appearing - if you cant get them withint 10 minutes they are gone and re-appear at 3x the price....
Happend for example yesterday - item was gone 16 minutes after it appeared on the GS when i tried to buy it and appeared an hour later at 3times the price....
How are these people even so fast that they can constantly be everywhere and buy every item within minutes?? Is that their whole game, buying and selling? For what if you dont use the money to actually play the game?
Just making money for money sake is completly pointless.
And people wonder why so many people are against a Global AH...imagine if these people could just sit in one location and buy out everything and not have to move around traders and cities etc.
At least this system makes them work for it to a point.
Yes just imagine if the average player might actually get an item because they knew where an item was going to be posted. It is much better now that only people running these programs know where and when things are posted.
You're assuming people only check the major cities for the items. I've found some of my best buys from the TGs that are just alone the road in random places. As somebody says a couple posts down from yours with the current system it's impossible to corner the market.
Since you can only be in 5 different guilds that leaves 178 other stores that can sell the item for less. You just have to be willing to look.
You seem to ignore what reverse prices correlation do for you. When price information "leaks", every market known by one market actor who got the leaked information is bound to slowly align to the others.
The less friction is to these leaks, the more aligned are the markets.
ESO guild trader system has been built to offer the maximum prices friction and the minumum access to information, in order to make vast scale price manipulation hard.
With just 1 (one) addon, you can already physically see and live the disastrous consequences of prices leaking.
If you removed information friction, that is if you made a global AH, then the phenomenon would be twice as bad.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO3 -
SergeantJinx✭✭✭It's because there is more than one of us.........
Seriously though iv'e seen BA Motifs selling for 20 - 30k, hell yeah I'm going to buy them and sell them for 100k, it's the current market price. You would be mad not to.Edited by SergeantJinx on May 4, 2018 3:42PM2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anyone with half a brain playing on PC would use those, since there isn't any downside to it.
You have to install mods written by random people on the Internet. They can be buggy, impact performance or cause issues when the game gets updated. There's also the issue of trust. You're installing executable programs on your computer. For some that's only a bunch of LUA scripts. Others require the installation of closed-source software that does who knows what.wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »TLDR; It is literally impossible to corner the market of an item in ESO. Yes you may have to shop to find it, but no one controls the market on anything. 183 kiosks and only 5 guilds to sell in insures this can't happen. A AH would make this possible.
Most of these traders might as well not exist because they get no traffic. You said yourself that it's time consuming to go everywhere. That true even more so for normal players who don't run a stack of add-ons to speed things up or who just want to play the game.
People stick to a couple of big locations like Belkarth, Mournhold, Elden Root or Wayrest. As a result, 5 guilds are enough to cover most of the market.
An auction house would make scalping harder because supply and - more importantly - the visibility of said supply would increase to a point where buying up everything becomes infeasible. Every MMORPG I've played with a proper auction house has a much more vibrant and functioning in-game economy than ESO.
I've made markets and manipulated prices since Horizons (a 2003 MMORPG). In EvE Online, I could manipulate (for short periods of time!) Zydrine and other still fairly common and pricey materials.
Don't understimate what a guy can do. In a MMORPG it's simple to become as powerful as a real world central bank could be. After that, you don't have a problem moving a whole AH, you have just to pick the right items, even if they are common enough.
Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »This is the direct answer to those pushing for a global auction house: now you have it, enjoy it!
There exist an addon that effectively allows to short circuit the guild traders mechanism.
This lets people see hundreds of guild traders in 10 seconds and to know where to immediately go and relist items at inflated price.
You demanded the global auction house. You got it. Or the equivalent of it.
And now you whine because you found out it was not the panacea, right?
On the contrary, this defeats the main reason people give for opposing an auction house. They constantly say that the present system protects against this sort of thing, when it turns out that it does no such thing.
This does not defeat a "reason".
This is about circumventing it and achieve 50% of what would be without it.
Make a real AH, and you'll have 100% of it, that is, things would just get worse.
you bet.
if a global ah came in i would be buying and flipping like crazy.... because i could.
I flipped up to 100 billions a day on Jita and Amarr in EvE. Like in ESO, all you need is a character logged off next to the main market hubs and then you dominate!
It's because I (and many others) have made markets for so many years that we are against repeating it again in ESO: its economy would be devastated.
You don't like how Jute is expensive? Wait until there's a global AH and we'll reprice it to 3x to what's today!Edited by Vahrokh on May 4, 2018 3:44PMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO2 -
jssriot✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, it's called flipping.
My advice is: if you're relatively new to trading in ESO and the trade guild you're in pressures players to do flipping, GET OUT. No, really. If you don't know much about trading and don't know how to make gold, flipping will be a very bad thing for you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you saw that YT vid with the guy who says he makes millions of gold in a day flipping. Ignore the noise.
Aside from the simple fact that making a lot of gold with flipping requires you to invest a considerable amount of gold before you really make a profit, the big tell I've observed about flippers is flippers get seriously burnt out.It pretty fast. Flipping flat out kills the game for them. It's not just a big investment in gold, but also time, and it's boring af. It turns players into a cranky, cynical, miserable jerks who just view other players as dupes to be taken advantage of or as competition. This is why I hate being in guilds with a lot of flippers (and why I'm very, very soon leaving a trade guild that is big on flipping). You don't want to be that kind of player, trust me. No one will like you, except maybe other flippers, until they're fed up with you or you them.
Also, and no, and global auction house will not fix this problem.
Edited by jssriot on May 4, 2018 3:43PMPC-NA since 2015. Tired and unimpressed.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Honestly the rich cats that constantly empty the market of certain goods and then upsell it are really annoying...i understand that you want to make money - but how much more do you need if you already have millions? Besides, what i can't understand - new items appearing - if you cant get them withint 10 minutes they are gone and re-appear at 3x the price....
Happend for example yesterday - item was gone 16 minutes after it appeared on the GS when i tried to buy it and appeared an hour later at 3times the price....
How are these people even so fast that they can constantly be everywhere and buy every item within minutes?? Is that their whole game, buying and selling? For what if you dont use the money to actually play the game?
Just making money for money sake is completly pointless.
So, two things worth noting.
TTC's information on when an item is listed... isn't really. It's telling you when an addon last indexed an item. So, if someone listed an item thirteen days ago, but someone with TTC running uploaded the data six minutes ago... the website will tell you that it was last seen six minutes ago, not when it was originally listed.
TTC only uploads data when you perform specific actions. Off hand I know a /reloadui will force an upload. I think logging out will as well, but I'm less certain of that. If someone saw the item, and then didn't issue a /reloadui, it's entirely possible that it was sold before it even hit the website. This is especially likely if the item is in high demand, and the trader is in a popular location.
Also remember, you're not the only person looking for something. If someone listed Dreadhorn Chests for 10k or Aetherial Dust for 25k, you better believe someone's who knows what they're doing will snap those up on the spot. If they're in the right place, at the right time, they don't even need TTC to get them there.
Also, some people will intentionally search guild stores for the most recently listed items, and just spot check through those looking for good deals. Again, if you do any significant trading, you're going to develop a sense for where prices should, normally, be, and you'll probably grab and flip anything you find that's significantly below market value.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Regulated fixed maximum prices, similar to BDO perhaps?
Because market shortages are soo much better.
That is the problem with BDO. You have a ludicrously valuable item. The game says, "no, it's not worth that much." You don't list it. Then zone is populated with players begging and pleading with people to list the items they want.0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »This is the direct answer to those pushing for a global auction house: now you have it, enjoy it!
There exist an addon that effectively allows to short circuit the guild traders mechanism.
This lets people see hundreds of guild traders in 10 seconds and to know where to immediately go and relist items at inflated price.
You demanded the global auction house. You got it. Or the equivalent of it.
And now you whine because you found out it was not the panacea, right?
On the contrary, this defeats the main reason people give for opposing an auction house. They constantly say that the present system protects against this sort of thing, when it turns out that it does no such thing.
This does not defeat a "reason".
This is about circumventing it and achieve 50% of what would be without it.
Make a real AH, and you'll have 100% of it, that is, things would just get worse.
you bet.
if a global ah came in i would be buying and flipping like crazy.... because i could.
I flipped up to 100 billions a day on Jita and Amarr in EvE. Like in ESO, all you need is a character logged off next to the main market hubs and then you dominate!
It's because I (and many others) have made markets for so many years that we are against repeating it again in ESO: its economy would be devastated.
You don't like how Jute is expensive? Wait until there's a global AH and we'll reprice it to 3x to what's today!
entirely agree.
did similar things in lotro and swtor and it was sooooo easy.2 -
jssriot✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jolipinator wrote: »BOB's your uncle.
Bind On Buy.
Wow, no. Good example of why:
Not long ago there was a bug where the Already in Your Library marker on CWC and HOTR motifs wasn't showing up for some players on toons that knew those motif pages. This resulted in me buying 3 Ebonshadow pages that my crafter actually already knew, at a time when they were going for primal prices. I resold them at lower prices than I bought them for, just to get rid of them, but if I couldn't have been able to sell them, I would have been pretty pissed.
Overall I generally oppose "solutions" that punish honest people more than they do the scammers. Try again.PC-NA since 2015. Tired and unimpressed.3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jolipinator wrote: »BOB's your uncle.
Bind On Buy.
Wow, no. Good example of why:
Not long ago there was a bug where the Already in Your Library marker on CWC and HOTR motifs wasn't showing up for some players on toons that knew those motif pages. This resulted in me buying 3 Ebonshadow pages that my crafter actually already knew, at a time when they were going for primal prices. I resold them at lower prices than I bought them for, just to get rid of them, but if I couldn't have been able to sell them, I would have been pretty pissed.
Overall I generally oppose "solutions" that punish honest people more than they do the scammers. Try again.
Always knew my uncles were *******s. Nice to see confirmation.
But, yeah, no, that would be a terrible system.0 -
Malmai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Honestly the rich cats that constantly empty the market of certain goods and then upsell it are really annoying...i understand that you want to make money - but how much more do you need if you already have millions? Besides, what i can't understand - new items appearing - if you cant get them withint 10 minutes they are gone and re-appear at 3x the price....
Happend for example yesterday - item was gone 16 minutes after it appeared on the GS when i tried to buy it and appeared an hour later at 3times the price....
How are these people even so fast that they can constantly be everywhere and buy every item within minutes?? Is that their whole game, buying and selling? For what if you dont use the money to actually play the game?
Just making money for money sake is completly pointless.
Thats why Global Auction house... Also somebody said bind on buy thats is great idea...Edited by Malmai on May 4, 2018 4:11PM1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »This is the direct answer to those pushing for a global auction house: now you have it, enjoy it!
There exist an addon that effectively allows to short circuit the guild traders mechanism.
This lets people see hundreds of guild traders in 10 seconds and to know where to immediately go and relist items at inflated price.
You demanded the global auction house. You got it. Or the equivalent of it.
And now you whine because you found out it was not the panacea, right?
On the contrary, this defeats the main reason people give for opposing an auction house. They constantly say that the present system protects against this sort of thing, when it turns out that it does no such thing.
This does not defeat a "reason".
This is about circumventing it and achieve 50% of what would be without it.
Make a real AH, and you'll have 100% of it, that is, things would just get worse.
you bet.
if a global ah came in i would be buying and flipping like crazy.... because i could.
I flipped up to 100 billions a day on Jita and Amarr in EvE. Like in ESO, all you need is a character logged off next to the main market hubs and then you dominate!
It's because I (and many others) have made markets for so many years that we are against repeating it again in ESO: its economy would be devastated.
You don't like how Jute is expensive? Wait until there's a global AH and we'll reprice it to 3x to what's today!
entirely agree.
did similar things in lotro and swtor and it was sooooo easy.
It gets even more amusing when you think of stuff that 90% of players cannot farm. Like Silverweave, or any of the other mid-tier CR mats. If you don't have points invested, you can't farm it at all once you've hit 150, and you can only half farm it, if you've bought up to that tier. At the same time, some players legitimately need that stuff to do writs... *obnoxious cash register noises*
A GAH allows you to surgically target niche groups with an immediate demand and a manageable supply. I mean, to be fair, it'd be bad all over, but it would be so much worse for crafters.
I mean, I used to do this in STO. With a GAH it's neither difficult, nor particularly time consuming.1 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »This is the direct answer to those pushing for a global auction house: now you have it, enjoy it!
There exist an addon that effectively allows to short circuit the guild traders mechanism.
This lets people see hundreds of guild traders in 10 seconds and to know where to immediately go and relist items at inflated price.
You demanded the global auction house. You got it. Or the equivalent of it.
And now you whine because you found out it was not the panacea, right?
On the contrary, this defeats the main reason people give for opposing an auction house. They constantly say that the present system protects against this sort of thing, when it turns out that it does no such thing.
This does not defeat a "reason".
This is about circumventing it and achieve 50% of what would be without it.
Make a real AH, and you'll have 100% of it, that is, things would just get worse.
you bet.
if a global ah came in i would be buying and flipping like crazy.... because i could.
I flipped up to 100 billions a day on Jita and Amarr in EvE. Like in ESO, all you need is a character logged off next to the main market hubs and then you dominate!
It's because I (and many others) have made markets for so many years that we are against repeating it again in ESO: its economy would be devastated.
You don't like how Jute is expensive? Wait until there's a global AH and we'll reprice it to 3x to what's today!
entirely agree.
did similar things in lotro and swtor and it was sooooo easy.
It gets even more amusing when you think of stuff that 90% of players cannot farm. Like Silverweave, or any of the other mid-tier CR mats. If you don't have points invested, you can't farm it at all once you've hit 150, and you can only half farm it, if you've bought up to that tier. At the same time, some players legitimately need that stuff to do writs... *obnoxious cash register noises*
A GAH allows you to surgically target niche groups with an immediate demand and a manageable supply. I mean, to be fair, it'd be bad all over, but it would be so much worse for crafters.
I mean, I used to do this in STO. With a GAH it's neither difficult, nor particularly time consuming.
yup.... you would not believe what i have in my craft bag.
the incredible thing is that people actually want a situation where that kind of market play would be permitted.0 -
VelimOrthic✭✭✭The knowledge that you, one among hundreds of thousands of people, had single-handedly changed an entire economy: are you really telling me you can't see the satisfaction gotten out of that? Come on now. You aren't so innocent. You're just begging for some mercy.0
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Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...
You fail to consider how every bogeyman wealthy player is still far outweighed by the combined might of the general public.
Look at how the combined might of the general public hammered the tar out of even the most expensive motifs due to their ability to farm at over 95 times as much as all the rich players combined.
You haven’t realized that the avalanche of motifs we saw is a mini version of the free market that would be seen across all sectors of the economy if a publicly available trader was open to the 95% of the people that don’t have a trader right now.
The rich moneybags players might try to buy the low priced items as they entered the market, but they don’t have the bag space or the listing slots to buy 100 newly listed tempers and list 30, while also buying 100 newly listed wax that has to wait for a list slot to open, and rosin, and solvent, and furniture, and Columbine, and farmed gear, and so on.
Every wealthy player would be outnumbered 95 to 1 in bag space, available farming time, and trader listing slots.
You may feel powerful and full of fire when you look at your 100 mill in the bank, but in a public trader you have 30 slots and your noob peasant farming competition is using 2850 slots to undercut you.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
Xbox NA0 -
Pops_ND_Irish✭✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Honestly the rich cats that constantly empty the market of certain goods and then upsell it are really annoying...i understand that you want to make money - but how much more do you need if you already have millions? Besides, what i can't understand - new items appearing - if you cant get them withint 10 minutes they are gone and re-appear at 3x the price....
Happend for example yesterday - item was gone 16 minutes after it appeared on the GS when i tried to buy it and appeared an hour later at 3times the price....
How are these people even so fast that they can constantly be everywhere and buy every item within minutes?? Is that their whole game, buying and selling? For what if you dont use the money to actually play the game?
Just making money for money sake is completly pointless.
Your point ? Earn it0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...
You fail to consider how every bogeyman wealthy player is still far outweighed by the combined might of the general public.
Look at how the combined might of the general public hammered the tar out of even the most expensive motifs due to their ability to farm at over 95 times as much as all the rich players combined.
You haven’t realized that the avalanche of motifs we saw is a mini version of the free market that would be seen across all sectors of the economy if a publicly available trader was open to the 95% of the people that don’t have a trader right now.
The rich moneybags players might try to buy the low priced items as they entered the market, but they don’t have the bag space or the listing slots to buy 100 newly listed tempers and list 30, while also buying 100 newly listed wax that has to wait for a list slot to open, and rosin, and solvent, and furniture, and Columbine, and farmed gear, and so on.
Every wealthy player would be outnumbered 95 to 1 in bag space, available farming time, and trader listing slots.
You may feel powerful and full of fire when you look at your 100 mill in the bank, but in a public trader you have 30 slots and your noob peasant farming competition is using 2850 slots to undercut you.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
have you not heard of the craft bag?1 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Aside from the simple fact that making a lot of gold with flipping requires you to invest a considerable amount of gold before you really make a profit, the big tell I've observed about flippers is flippers get seriously burnt out.It pretty fast. Flipping flat out kills the game for them. It's not just a big investment in gold, but also time, and it's boring af.
Personally I find shopping around for deals to be pretty fun. At least it is more fun than farming chests/urns or picking NPC pocket over and over hoping to get some rare motif, grinding mobs, picking mats for several hours etc. There is always risk, but it's usually a faster way to earn gold.Also, and no, and global auction house will not fix this problem.
Definitely agree about global auction house. It would result in negative experience for most players because AH is too easy for a few rich players to corner markets.
Edited by IcyDeadPeople on May 4, 2018 8:11PM2 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...
You fail to consider how every bogeyman wealthy player is still far outweighed by the combined might of the general public.
Look at how the combined might of the general public hammered the tar out of even the most expensive motifs due to their ability to farm at over 95 times as much as all the rich players combined.
You haven’t realized that the avalanche of motifs we saw is a mini version of the free market that would be seen across all sectors of the economy if a publicly available trader was open to the 95% of the people that don’t have a trader right now.
The rich moneybags players might try to buy the low priced items as they entered the market, but they don’t have the bag space or the listing slots to buy 100 newly listed tempers and list 30, while also buying 100 newly listed wax that has to wait for a list slot to open, and rosin, and solvent, and furniture, and Columbine, and farmed gear, and so on.
Every wealthy player would be outnumbered 95 to 1 in bag space, available farming time, and trader listing slots.
You may feel powerful and full of fire when you look at your 100 mill in the bank, but in a public trader you have 30 slots and your noob peasant farming competition is using 2850 slots to undercut you.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
have you not heard of the craft bag?
Of course I have.
You keep hammering on the aspect of being able to buy whatever is listed at one UI window. But that’s only half of the scene. That’s items moving into your inventory.
What you keep failing to explain is how you are going to move items OUT of your inventory at the same speed as they flow in.
Currently 95% of the playerbase cannot be in a trading guild because there is a member cap. Those people are still hitting the random crafting node, still getting the purple rings from the dolmen, still getting the motif from the random crate or urn.
The half of the scene you conveniently neglect is the power of those 95% have to flood what you want to flip. The motif event is a pale example of the whole playerbase having something to sell.
You may try to buy up and flip, but purely in terms of logistics you will be trying to buy up the lowballed stuff from 95 people’s listings and move it out through your 1 person listings. You get 30 listings. The 95 people you are trying to use as sources have 2850 listings.
You cannot keep up. You physically cannot read through and consider 2850 listed items and move the stuff out through your 30 listings.
What you describe with your ‘buy it all and resell as I feel’ strategy is not grounded in anything other than your fantasyland mind. Because you cannot condense 2850 item listings flowing into your inventory and push it out of a 30 item listing output.
If you tried, you would end up with a lot in your craft bag, but the negative effect on your cash flow would leave you with zero liquid gold, at which time you would watch all those newly listed items and tempers and motifs scroll by to be bought by others.
Like I said.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.Xbox NA0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...
You fail to consider how every bogeyman wealthy player is still far outweighed by the combined might of the general public.
Look at how the combined might of the general public hammered the tar out of even the most expensive motifs due to their ability to farm at over 95 times as much as all the rich players combined.
You haven’t realized that the avalanche of motifs we saw is a mini version of the free market that would be seen across all sectors of the economy if a publicly available trader was open to the 95% of the people that don’t have a trader right now.
The rich moneybags players might try to buy the low priced items as they entered the market, but they don’t have the bag space or the listing slots to buy 100 newly listed tempers and list 30, while also buying 100 newly listed wax that has to wait for a list slot to open, and rosin, and solvent, and furniture, and Columbine, and farmed gear, and so on.
Every wealthy player would be outnumbered 95 to 1 in bag space, available farming time, and trader listing slots.
You may feel powerful and full of fire when you look at your 100 mill in the bank, but in a public trader you have 30 slots and your noob peasant farming competition is using 2850 slots to undercut you.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
have you not heard of the craft bag?
Of course I have.
You keep hammering on the aspect of being able to buy whatever is listed at one UI window. But that’s only half of the scene. That’s items moving into your inventory.
What you keep failing to explain is how you are going to move items OUT of your inventory at the same speed as they flow in.
Currently 95% of the playerbase cannot be in a trading guild because there is a member cap. Those people are still hitting the random crafting node, still getting the purple rings from the dolmen, still getting the motif from the random crate or urn.
The half of the scene you conveniently neglect is the power of those 95% have to flood what you want to flip. The motif event is a pale example of the whole playerbase having something to sell.
You may try to buy up and flip, but purely in terms of logistics you will be trying to buy up the lowballed stuff from 95 people’s listings and move it out through your 1 person listings. You get 30 listings. The 95 people you are trying to use as sources have 2850 listings.
You cannot keep up. You physically cannot read through and consider 2850 listed items and move the stuff out through your 30 listings.
What you describe with your ‘buy it all and resell as I feel’ strategy is not grounded in anything other than your fantasyland mind. Because you cannot condense 2850 item listings flowing into your inventory and push it out of a 30 item listing output.
If you tried, you would end up with a lot in your craft bag, but the negative effect on your cash flow would leave you with zero liquid gold, at which time you would watch all those newly listed items and tempers and motifs scroll by to be bought by others.
Like I said.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
you seem to be conflating two things. the current guild trader and a global auction house. i was talking about just a global auction house. or do you think gah would operate in exactly the same manner as the gt?
gaming a gah is easy..... people have done it.0 -
Wolfenbelle✭✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Just making money for money sake is completly pointless.
Especially since it is not really money, but just a fantasy currency in a fantasy game.0 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...
You fail to consider how every bogeyman wealthy player is still far outweighed by the combined might of the general public.
Look at how the combined might of the general public hammered the tar out of even the most expensive motifs due to their ability to farm at over 95 times as much as all the rich players combined.
You haven’t realized that the avalanche of motifs we saw is a mini version of the free market that would be seen across all sectors of the economy if a publicly available trader was open to the 95% of the people that don’t have a trader right now.
The rich moneybags players might try to buy the low priced items as they entered the market, but they don’t have the bag space or the listing slots to buy 100 newly listed tempers and list 30, while also buying 100 newly listed wax that has to wait for a list slot to open, and rosin, and solvent, and furniture, and Columbine, and farmed gear, and so on.
Every wealthy player would be outnumbered 95 to 1 in bag space, available farming time, and trader listing slots.
You may feel powerful and full of fire when you look at your 100 mill in the bank, but in a public trader you have 30 slots and your noob peasant farming competition is using 2850 slots to undercut you.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
have you not heard of the craft bag?
Of course I have.
You keep hammering on the aspect of being able to buy whatever is listed at one UI window. But that’s only half of the scene. That’s items moving into your inventory.
What you keep failing to explain is how you are going to move items OUT of your inventory at the same speed as they flow in.
Currently 95% of the playerbase cannot be in a trading guild because there is a member cap. Those people are still hitting the random crafting node, still getting the purple rings from the dolmen, still getting the motif from the random crate or urn.
The half of the scene you conveniently neglect is the power of those 95% have to flood what you want to flip. The motif event is a pale example of the whole playerbase having something to sell.
You may try to buy up and flip, but purely in terms of logistics you will be trying to buy up the lowballed stuff from 95 people’s listings and move it out through your 1 person listings. You get 30 listings. The 95 people you are trying to use as sources have 2850 listings.
You cannot keep up. You physically cannot read through and consider 2850 listed items and move the stuff out through your 30 listings.
What you describe with your ‘buy it all and resell as I feel’ strategy is not grounded in anything other than your fantasyland mind. Because you cannot condense 2850 item listings flowing into your inventory and push it out of a 30 item listing output.
If you tried, you would end up with a lot in your craft bag, but the negative effect on your cash flow would leave you with zero liquid gold, at which time you would watch all those newly listed items and tempers and motifs scroll by to be bought by others.
Like I said.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
you seem to be conflating two things. the current guild trader and a global auction house. i was talking about just a global auction house. or do you think gah would operate in exactly the same manner as the gt?
gaming a gah is easy..... people have done it.
No, the forum here has a habit of calling it an auction house when there is not actually any bidding - it’s not an *auction*.
Even if you really meant to have a mini-eBay going on in game, that is irrelevant. You keep hanging your hat on the post of centralized buying, while I am pointing out that you will never be able to keep up with flipping because you are outnumbered at least 95 to 1. You do not have the physical ability. For every 1 hour you farm the listings the other 95 EACH have an hour to farm and list their items. You are literally attempting to convince us that your business model doesn’t have you own singular nature as the bottleneck.Xbox NA0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...
You fail to consider how every bogeyman wealthy player is still far outweighed by the combined might of the general public.
Look at how the combined might of the general public hammered the tar out of even the most expensive motifs due to their ability to farm at over 95 times as much as all the rich players combined.
You haven’t realized that the avalanche of motifs we saw is a mini version of the free market that would be seen across all sectors of the economy if a publicly available trader was open to the 95% of the people that don’t have a trader right now.
The rich moneybags players might try to buy the low priced items as they entered the market, but they don’t have the bag space or the listing slots to buy 100 newly listed tempers and list 30, while also buying 100 newly listed wax that has to wait for a list slot to open, and rosin, and solvent, and furniture, and Columbine, and farmed gear, and so on.
Every wealthy player would be outnumbered 95 to 1 in bag space, available farming time, and trader listing slots.
You may feel powerful and full of fire when you look at your 100 mill in the bank, but in a public trader you have 30 slots and your noob peasant farming competition is using 2850 slots to undercut you.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
have you not heard of the craft bag?
Of course I have.
You keep hammering on the aspect of being able to buy whatever is listed at one UI window. But that’s only half of the scene. That’s items moving into your inventory.
What you keep failing to explain is how you are going to move items OUT of your inventory at the same speed as they flow in.
Currently 95% of the playerbase cannot be in a trading guild because there is a member cap. Those people are still hitting the random crafting node, still getting the purple rings from the dolmen, still getting the motif from the random crate or urn.
The half of the scene you conveniently neglect is the power of those 95% have to flood what you want to flip. The motif event is a pale example of the whole playerbase having something to sell.
You may try to buy up and flip, but purely in terms of logistics you will be trying to buy up the lowballed stuff from 95 people’s listings and move it out through your 1 person listings. You get 30 listings. The 95 people you are trying to use as sources have 2850 listings.
You cannot keep up. You physically cannot read through and consider 2850 listed items and move the stuff out through your 30 listings.
What you describe with your ‘buy it all and resell as I feel’ strategy is not grounded in anything other than your fantasyland mind. Because you cannot condense 2850 item listings flowing into your inventory and push it out of a 30 item listing output.
If you tried, you would end up with a lot in your craft bag, but the negative effect on your cash flow would leave you with zero liquid gold, at which time you would watch all those newly listed items and tempers and motifs scroll by to be bought by others.
Like I said.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
you seem to be conflating two things. the current guild trader and a global auction house. i was talking about just a global auction house. or do you think gah would operate in exactly the same manner as the gt?
gaming a gah is easy..... people have done it.
No, the forum here has a habit of calling it an auction house when there is not actually any bidding - it’s not an *auction*.
Even if you really meant to have a mini-eBay going on in game, that is irrelevant. You keep hanging your hat on the post of centralized buying, while I am pointing out that you will never be able to keep up with flipping because you are outnumbered at least 95 to 1. You do not have the physical ability. For every 1 hour you farm the listings the other 95 EACH have an hour to farm and list their items. You are literally attempting to convince us that your business model doesn’t have you own singular nature as the bottleneck.
what i'm talking about is the way that people game gah. this is not a fantasy it has been done in every game with a gah.0 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It really does suck and it's frustrating as hell, especially when the addons that might let you shop a little easier (I have yet to see one that lets you look at ALL the guilds, I was told that doesn't exist) effect game performance in a huge way for so many of us. I had to uninstall Master Merchant. And that one doesn't even let you look at all the guild stores, it just helps with price determination.
Few things in the game are more frustrating than going to TTC to try to find something you *need*, seeing it listed many times over at a price you can afford, and then running around for an hour to all the different kiosks to discover that some jerk bought them all to put them up at a price you *can't* afford and then you have to wait a few days and hope that nobody's paying attention and make sure you do your shopping very late/early just in order to be able to afford the thing you need. Ugh.1 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TTC is actually a godsend for the smaller traders in the middle of nowhere.
It's not perfect (and I hope it won't ever be) but it allows people to find stuff there. Few players run around the one trader spots - except when they see that something had been listed there half an hour ago or so.
So at least for PC, "no one buys at small traders" isn't really true any more.2 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...
You fail to consider how every bogeyman wealthy player is still far outweighed by the combined might of the general public.
Look at how the combined might of the general public hammered the tar out of even the most expensive motifs due to their ability to farm at over 95 times as much as all the rich players combined.
You haven’t realized that the avalanche of motifs we saw is a mini version of the free market that would be seen across all sectors of the economy if a publicly available trader was open to the 95% of the people that don’t have a trader right now.
The rich moneybags players might try to buy the low priced items as they entered the market, but they don’t have the bag space or the listing slots to buy 100 newly listed tempers and list 30, while also buying 100 newly listed wax that has to wait for a list slot to open, and rosin, and solvent, and furniture, and Columbine, and farmed gear, and so on.
Every wealthy player would be outnumbered 95 to 1 in bag space, available farming time, and trader listing slots.
You may feel powerful and full of fire when you look at your 100 mill in the bank, but in a public trader you have 30 slots and your noob peasant farming competition is using 2850 slots to undercut you.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
have you not heard of the craft bag?
Of course I have.
You keep hammering on the aspect of being able to buy whatever is listed at one UI window. But that’s only half of the scene. That’s items moving into your inventory.
What you keep failing to explain is how you are going to move items OUT of your inventory at the same speed as they flow in.
Currently 95% of the playerbase cannot be in a trading guild because there is a member cap. Those people are still hitting the random crafting node, still getting the purple rings from the dolmen, still getting the motif from the random crate or urn.
The half of the scene you conveniently neglect is the power of those 95% have to flood what you want to flip. The motif event is a pale example of the whole playerbase having something to sell.
You may try to buy up and flip, but purely in terms of logistics you will be trying to buy up the lowballed stuff from 95 people’s listings and move it out through your 1 person listings. You get 30 listings. The 95 people you are trying to use as sources have 2850 listings.
You cannot keep up. You physically cannot read through and consider 2850 listed items and move the stuff out through your 30 listings.
What you describe with your ‘buy it all and resell as I feel’ strategy is not grounded in anything other than your fantasyland mind. Because you cannot condense 2850 item listings flowing into your inventory and push it out of a 30 item listing output.
If you tried, you would end up with a lot in your craft bag, but the negative effect on your cash flow would leave you with zero liquid gold, at which time you would watch all those newly listed items and tempers and motifs scroll by to be bought by others.
Like I said.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
you seem to be conflating two things. the current guild trader and a global auction house. i was talking about just a global auction house. or do you think gah would operate in exactly the same manner as the gt?
gaming a gah is easy..... people have done it.
No, the forum here has a habit of calling it an auction house when there is not actually any bidding - it’s not an *auction*.
Even if you really meant to have a mini-eBay going on in game, that is irrelevant. You keep hanging your hat on the post of centralized buying, while I am pointing out that you will never be able to keep up with flipping because you are outnumbered at least 95 to 1. You do not have the physical ability. For every 1 hour you farm the listings the other 95 EACH have an hour to farm and list their items. You are literally attempting to convince us that your business model doesn’t have you own singular nature as the bottleneck.
what i'm talking about is the way that people game gah. this is not a fantasy it has been done in every game with a gah.
All I see is you engaging in magical thinking. The magic being in the way you handwave away the issues involved in moving the product back out of your inventory.
I won’t deny that a few hundred million in gold would allow you to buy up a lot of lowballed items. But the bottleneck is then getting those items back out of your craft bag.
Quit being coy with the details. Currently 95% of the people cannot list a darn thing for the general public, and a general market would grant them that. Say you team up and you are given the task of watching 95 specific people as they start selling for the first time ever. Each one lists 10 tempers, 10 wax, 10 columbine for 1k. You buy it all, spending 2.85million. And how are you going to flip it with your measly 30 slots? You going to only sell stacks at your flipped price? And what happens tomorrow, day 2, when each of them lists 10 rosin, 10 nirnroot, and another 10 wax? And again on day 3? Day 4?
Your measly 30 slots will not keep up.
Your craft bag will grow, but because you cannot output the product at anywhere near the speed that it flows in, you will be running a deficit of over 2 million gold per DAY.
You wouldn’t last 3 months with those deficit numbers. Your gold pike would disappear, and the very next day you would see 2850 items listed and selling to everyone else for the non-inflated value.
No matter how many times you ignore it, the fact that any buyer cannot output at a rate to match the input means your wild ravings about the market being rigged are just that - wild ravings.Xbox NA1 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...
You fail to consider how every bogeyman wealthy player is still far outweighed by the combined might of the general public.
Look at how the combined might of the general public hammered the tar out of even the most expensive motifs due to their ability to farm at over 95 times as much as all the rich players combined.
You haven’t realized that the avalanche of motifs we saw is a mini version of the free market that would be seen across all sectors of the economy if a publicly available trader was open to the 95% of the people that don’t have a trader right now.
The rich moneybags players might try to buy the low priced items as they entered the market, but they don’t have the bag space or the listing slots to buy 100 newly listed tempers and list 30, while also buying 100 newly listed wax that has to wait for a list slot to open, and rosin, and solvent, and furniture, and Columbine, and farmed gear, and so on.
Every wealthy player would be outnumbered 95 to 1 in bag space, available farming time, and trader listing slots.
You may feel powerful and full of fire when you look at your 100 mill in the bank, but in a public trader you have 30 slots and your noob peasant farming competition is using 2850 slots to undercut you.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
have you not heard of the craft bag?
Of course I have.
You keep hammering on the aspect of being able to buy whatever is listed at one UI window. But that’s only half of the scene. That’s items moving into your inventory.
What you keep failing to explain is how you are going to move items OUT of your inventory at the same speed as they flow in.
Currently 95% of the playerbase cannot be in a trading guild because there is a member cap. Those people are still hitting the random crafting node, still getting the purple rings from the dolmen, still getting the motif from the random crate or urn.
The half of the scene you conveniently neglect is the power of those 95% have to flood what you want to flip. The motif event is a pale example of the whole playerbase having something to sell.
You may try to buy up and flip, but purely in terms of logistics you will be trying to buy up the lowballed stuff from 95 people’s listings and move it out through your 1 person listings. You get 30 listings. The 95 people you are trying to use as sources have 2850 listings.
You cannot keep up. You physically cannot read through and consider 2850 listed items and move the stuff out through your 30 listings.
What you describe with your ‘buy it all and resell as I feel’ strategy is not grounded in anything other than your fantasyland mind. Because you cannot condense 2850 item listings flowing into your inventory and push it out of a 30 item listing output.
If you tried, you would end up with a lot in your craft bag, but the negative effect on your cash flow would leave you with zero liquid gold, at which time you would watch all those newly listed items and tempers and motifs scroll by to be bought by others.
Like I said.
You. Would. Fall. Splat.
you seem to be conflating two things. the current guild trader and a global auction house. i was talking about just a global auction house. or do you think gah would operate in exactly the same manner as the gt?
gaming a gah is easy..... people have done it.
No, the forum here has a habit of calling it an auction house when there is not actually any bidding - it’s not an *auction*.
Even if you really meant to have a mini-eBay going on in game, that is irrelevant. You keep hanging your hat on the post of centralized buying, while I am pointing out that you will never be able to keep up with flipping because you are outnumbered at least 95 to 1. You do not have the physical ability. For every 1 hour you farm the listings the other 95 EACH have an hour to farm and list their items. You are literally attempting to convince us that your business model doesn’t have you own singular nature as the bottleneck.
what i'm talking about is the way that people game gah. this is not a fantasy it has been done in every game with a gah.
All I see is you engaging in magical thinking. The magic being in the way you handwave away the issues involved in moving the product back out of your inventory.
I won’t deny that a few hundred million in gold would allow you to buy up a lot of lowballed items. But the bottleneck is then getting those items back out of your craft bag.
Quit being coy with the details. Currently 95% of the people cannot list a darn thing for the general public, and a general market would grant them that. Say you team up and you are given the task of watching 95 specific people as they start selling for the first time ever. Each one lists 10 tempers, 10 wax, 10 columbine for 1k. You buy it all, spending 2.85million. And how are you going to flip it with your measly 30 slots? You going to only sell stacks at your flipped price? And what happens tomorrow, day 2, when each of them lists 10 rosin, 10 nirnroot, and another 10 wax? And again on day 3? Day 4?
Your measly 30 slots will not keep up.
Your craft bag will grow, but because you cannot output the product at anywhere near the speed that it flows in, you will be running a deficit of over 2 million gold per DAY.
You wouldn’t last 3 months with those deficit numbers. Your gold pike would disappear, and the very next day you would see 2850 items listed and selling to everyone else for the non-inflated value.
No matter how many times you ignore it, the fact that any buyer cannot output at a rate to match the input means your wild ravings about the market being rigged are just that - wild ravings.
you are still conflating gah and tg.
i was talking specifically what can, and has, happened with gah in other games.0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Honestly the rich cats that constantly empty the market of certain goods and then upsell it are really annoying...i understand that you want to make money - but how much more do you need if you already have millions? Besides, what i can't understand - new items appearing - if you cant get them withint 10 minutes they are gone and re-appear at 3x the price....
What this means is simply that the original sellers priced the items much too low. If someone can buy it up at the low price, and repost at a much higher price AND manage to sell it... it means that people are willing to pay that price. And that is what determines what something is worth: what its purchaser will pay for it.
Those original sellers were pricing their goods much too low. Or maybe they just wanted their sold really fast and there priced them very low. If those players reselling goods didn't immediately buy up these goods at the low price, then no one would, not immediately. It would take time. So you see, there is a meaning behind all this. Don't blame the resellers, blame yourself for not standing ready when the good offers are posted.2 -
Eyro✭✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »Honestly the rich cats that constantly empty the market of certain goods and then upsell it are really annoying...i understand that you want to make money - but how much more do you need if you already have millions? Besides, what i can't understand - new items appearing - if you cant get them withint 10 minutes they are gone and re-appear at 3x the price....
Happend for example yesterday - item was gone 16 minutes after it appeared on the GS when i tried to buy it and appeared an hour later at 3times the price....
How are these people even so fast that they can constantly be everywhere and buy every item within minutes?? Is that their whole game, buying and selling? For what if you dont use the money to actually play the game?
Just making money for money sake is completly pointless.
And people wonder why so many people are against a Global AH...imagine if these people could just sit in one location and buy out everything and not have to move around traders and cities etc.
At least this system makes them work for it to a point.
Yes just imagine if the average player might actually get an item because they knew where an item was going to be posted. It is much better now that only people running these programs know where and when things are posted.
You're assuming people only check the major cities for the items. I've found some of my best buys from the TGs that are just alone the road in random places. As somebody says a couple posts down from yours with the current system it's impossible to corner the market.
Since you can only be in 5 different guilds that leaves 178 other stores that can sell the item for less. You just have to be willing to look.
And your assuming that people trying to corner the market are using one account. Lots of people in this thread seem to think people that do this market cornering thing are in fact gold sellers and bots. You think they are limiting themselves to 1 account?1