can we introduce a PvP Resurrection sickness please?

Stickbow · April 2018

I don't see the problem here - if they have 'dedicated rezzers', kill 'em, camp the bodies. They will have to release to a camp or a keep. They can release to a camp once - then have to release to a keep and make the run back.

Honestly, I'd like it to be *easier* to get back up/get back in the fight, especially when defending a keep. A group of 50 (two raids and random hangers-on) sieging a keep with half as many defenders is over way too fast most of the time - the walls are like paper. Let us res in the keep unless the outer walls are fully breached and the central keep is under attack (maybe with the same range as a FC; maybe only once like with a FC).

I'm looking forward to catapults helping with the huge group becoming zombie zergs - kill someone sieging, longer term AOE from the meat bag keeps interrupting the rezzers, you eventually kill 'em off enough they give up.

Dredlord · April 2018

No, its a bad idea. Especially in ESO.

Sarjako · April 2018

dsalter wrote: »

i'm talking 20% less stats for 1min, stacking, because lets be honest a group of 4 cheese players repeatedly ressing eachother in 2 seconds and more or less resetting fights till they get swarmed by 20+ players isnt good gameplay, its cheesy as hell.
the power ressing is problem of its own which tbh should be adressed but maybe weaker players after repeated res usage could solve that cheese at least.

also my favorite res thing, wiping out a massive attack in defence only for 1 shmuck setup to res in 2 seconds reviving the entire assault before you even get a chance to stop him.

I had a situation last night and I couldn't kill their group... we need a widespread nerf now.

disintegr8 · April 2018

I think that part of the tactics in group combat include watching for rez's and interrupting or preventing them. If they did not matter because the rez'd player came back easier to kill or dishing out less damage, you wouldn't worry about it so much.

Next call could be asking for the same when people respawn at forward camps.

Maybe this is wanted by those 1 v X'ers to make their life easier.

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

dsalter wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

FYI, I have played games which give more consequences for loss and res timers. They suck. This would apply to everyone also. You would sit there watching your group still have a chance of winning if you could only pop back up and join them but you can't.
You would definitely find situations where you hate your own request, but they can't customize it to your advantage, which is the whole point of this. Just another person who wants the developers to help them win rather than get player help or a better strategy.

i actually know how to deal with these groups, i'm literally setup for it, thing is i have to ditch what i find fun just to actually shut down the fun killers.
so why do i and 3 others have to go as a small team to shut down people, or at least try, just so others can actually get a chance to fight back and have some fun of their own?

edit: besides the tools we are given to deal with said groups are far less impactful than the hive mind, the moment they see us busting them up they get the 2-3 ressers on res duty and start chasing us till either the keep flips or they catch us.
the res duty undoes the group we "bust" faster than i can throw out 2(x4 cause 4 man group) inevitable dets because of stacking res speeds+templars, and the bonus of being revived not only with full hp but immediately ready to reunite with the hive mind

You're doing it wrong. That's why.
Don't 1vX. Don't Xv1. You're supposed to XvX where X=X.

Battlegrounds are what you want. Open world Cyrodiil pvp is always going to be broken because it allows for too much variation in population due to time of day and other factors. It never works in any game unless it is as popular as World of Warcraft at its peak and has a LOT of pvpers because the pvp combat is balanced better.
This game was designed with that in mind but they never got it right and the popularity was never going to be the same as WoW.

Welcome to the death of PVP in ESO, 5 years too late. Yes, it was mostly dead before the game launched because of the entire design.

Go play a "PVP Game" if you want PVP.

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

dsalter wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

i'm talking 20% less stats for 1min, stacking, because lets be honest a group of 4 cheese players repeatedly ressing eachother in 2 seconds and more or less resetting fights till they get swarmed by 20+ players isnt good gameplay, its cheesy as hell.
the power ressing is problem of its own which tbh should be adressed but maybe weaker players after repeated res usage could solve that cheese at least.

also my favorite res thing, wiping out a massive attack in defence only for 1 shmuck setup to res in 2 seconds reviving the entire assault before you even get a chance to stop him.

No one likes the thought of having to ride on a horse for 5-10 minutes to get back to the fight.

well there is that side of the coin... wonder if there is a middle ground, more places to spawn? res cooldown? i want to cure the irritation that is putting down a hive mind without them getting back up in seconds unless guarded until they release, do you know how boring camping a swarm is for 6-8mins is? just so they cant get up in less than a minute and terrorize the masses again?

Get your own swarm. That's what the developers intended in this game from the very start, just like any other alliance vs alliance pvp in any other game.
They're just wiser than you are about how best to PVP with the game design we are given.

Battlegrounds are how pvp needs to be to be how you want. Open World pvp was messed up this way before launch and will stay messed up. Your idea would only hurt it more as even small groups like yours would be deterred by res sickness while the big groups figure out ways around it, like forward camps.

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

I think there should be a time limit to Rez a dead player before their forced to respawn. It would force players to go for the Rez in the fight if they want to save teammates instead of being able to kill everyone then get all the dead players up making it pointless that u killed any of them since u didn't kill all of them.

I've heard there is already.

NBrookus · April 2018

Since forward camps already have a cooldown, and horse sim is dull, rez penalty should be *only* for battlefield rezzes, and like forward camps, have a cooldown on penalty.

For example:
death #1
battlefield rez, no penalty
death #2
forward camp - no penalty
keep/outpost/gate rez - no penalty
battlefield rez - if within x minutes of last battlefield rez, has penalty; otherwise no penalty

Doesn't prevent group play, doesn't prevent rejoining a battle after an oops, but would prevent zombie re-rezzing.

Mystrius_Archaion · May 2018

Death penalties suck in any game, even in PVE let alone PVP.
So no, just no.

Anyone else remember corpse runs just to get your armor back? Remember finding that somebody else stole it even though you're on a PVE server?

Why don't we just add perma-death and make everyone think more carefully about even attempting pvp? I'm sure that won't backfire and kill it off.

Where do we draw the line at adding more pain points to PVP?

I'll say it again....
Get rid of any loss or hassle associated with death in pvp and suddenly pvp will become a lot more popular if people can easily join it and run in and die and come back all they want. People will start laughing at how they die rather than gettign upset that they died because death won't really matter.

A lot more people should have played local multiplayer in games like Halo Combat Evolved and Goldeneye 007 when they were younger. Those were fun to see what hi-jinks we could get into, including stacking grenades under vehicles and seeing how far and high we could launch ourselves. Often we would forget the mission goal for a good hour of trying to get "revenge"(since we weren't angry) on each other for accidental friendly fire.

Sparky617 · May 2018

I'd be more in favor of something that limited the rate at which players can be resurrected in Cyrodil
10 minutes between deaths to reset, taking a wayshrine resets the timer
Death 1 = instant res
Death 2 = 1 minute delay
Death 3 = 3 minute delay
Death 4 = 5 minute delay
Death 5 = Shrine only
In addition, a live player can only have ONE outstanding res active that is subject to the person they tried to res waiting out their timer and accepting it, or taking a Shrine ride. If the dead player takes the shrine route, the live player is then good to resurrect another dead player.

Mystrius_Archaion · May 2018

Sparky617 wrote: »

In addition, a live player can only have ONE outstanding res active that is subject to the person they tried to res waiting out their timer and accepting it, or taking a Shrine ride. If the dead player takes the shrine route, the live player is then good to resurrect another dead player.

Not a good idea for 2 reasons:

1) If a player can res multiple other people while under fire, then they are good enough to deserve to be able to or their opponents really aren't paying attention and thus wouldn't matter anyway.

2) This would inevitably spread to PVE since they haven't proven able to make most abilities work differently versus PVP. This would really hurt endgame groups or those times somebody tries to res a random afk player on the ground just to be nice which screws their group as that player can stay logged in quite a while.

ToRelax · May 2018

A simple cooldown on rez by another player would solve most problems. You shouldn't have to camp a corpse of someone you killed just to make sure they don't stand up and join the fight again.

DoctorESO · May 2018

How about a rezzing profession or skill line?

SwampRaider · May 2018

Terrible idea, that would make kagrenac hope obsolete set. I rely on kagrenac Hope for small man and competitive organized PVP. If the raid leader is down I need to get him up ASAP and his stats should not be diminished especially if he has a Destro already to go off and we're going to push.

ToRelax · May 2018

SwampRaider wrote: »

Terrible idea, that would make kagrenac hope obsolete set. I rely on kagrenac Hope for small man and competitive organized PVP. If the raid leader is down I need to get him up ASAP and his stats should not be diminished especially if he has a Destro already to go off and we're going to push.

I mean, that's kind of the point... he shouldn't be able to get up ASAP. Someone killed him and a few seconds later it was rendered irrelevant.

Micah_Bayer · May 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm very skeptical of suggestions that require making sweeping changes to gameplay to fix very small problems.

Seriously, we're talking about handing everyone in PVP a massive debuff upon death in order to deal with a few players in rez-bot builds?

Death comes quick and often in ESO PVP. Its nice to be able to get up and get back in the fight, whether at a nearby keep (have to ride back to the fight), a rez camp (someone had to spend AP to drop it), or someone had to stop fighting to rez.

If you fight often in PVP, you will die. Adding a one minute massive debuff that gets worse the more you die is basically handing everyone a one minute time out penalty for dying in a game where you die a lot in PVP.

I don't like that. The current system where death is fairly cheap encourages people taking risks that might get them killed and gets them right back to the fight. A one minute time out because the debuff gets worse if I get killed? That's not fun, not fun at all.

When I was learning to play in Cyrodiil, I died a ton. Part of the learning process and I wasn't overly punished for dying. This suggestion would have been brutal on me when I was learning. Even now, I think I would be far less likely to take risks, jump into fights, defend lost causes, or tag along with PUGs, all of which are pretty normal Cyrodiil activities if there was a massive debuff timer on death.

If you have a problem like small groups rezzing players, please consider using various tactics to overcome those players before you turn to sweeping changes that affect a lot more players than the ones you are having problems with. If you must call for nerfs, maybe try getting Kagrenacs or the CP passive for rezzing changed instead, something that actually addresses the cheese.

He's only saying that the debuff applies to people rezzed from the field with soul gems.

TequilaFire · May 2018

Just no.
There is risk in rezzing already as you are vulnerable during the channel as is the player just rezzed has low stats.
Most of my deaths in PvP are when I stop to rez another player.

VaranisArano · May 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

SwampRaider wrote: »

Terrible idea, that would make kagrenac hope obsolete set. I rely on kagrenac Hope for small man and competitive organized PVP. If the raid leader is down I need to get him up ASAP and his stats should not be diminished especially if he has a Destro already to go off and we're going to push.

I mean, that's kind of the point... he shouldn't be able to get up ASAP. Someone killed him and a few seconds later it was rendered irrelevant.

Why ever not? Its the fault of the attackers that someone was able to get the raid lead right back in the fight.

You want the game devs to prevent rezzes when its your job to prevent rezzes.

ToRelax · May 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

SwampRaider wrote: »

Terrible idea, that would make kagrenac hope obsolete set. I rely on kagrenac Hope for small man and competitive organized PVP. If the raid leader is down I need to get him up ASAP and his stats should not be diminished especially if he has a Destro already to go off and we're going to push.

I mean, that's kind of the point... he shouldn't be able to get up ASAP. Someone killed him and a few seconds later it was rendered irrelevant.

Why ever not? Its the fault of the attackers that someone was able to get the raid lead right back in the fight.

You want the game devs to prevent rezzes when its your job to prevent rezzes.

The problem arises in every scenario in which it is not conceivable to expend the effort required to prevent a rez. This usually happens when one side is outnumbered and although capable of killing their enemies can't capitalize on it because they get rezzed instantly.
You basically erase one side's chance at finishing the job by telling them if they can kill a lot of players they must also be able to camp a lot of corpses...