can we introduce a PvP Resurrection sickness please?

dsalter

i'm talking 20% less stats for 1min, stacking, because lets be honest a group of 4 cheese players repeatedly ressing eachother in 2 seconds and more or less resetting fights till they get swarmed by 20+ players isnt good gameplay, its cheesy as hell.
the power ressing is problem of its own which tbh should be adressed but maybe weaker players after repeated res usage could solve that cheese at least.

also my favorite res thing, wiping out a massive attack in defence only for 1 shmuck setup to res in 2 seconds reviving the entire assault before you even get a chance to stop him.

NoFlash

This would be nice. Possible less lag with people dying with reduced stats.

Maura_Neysa

Hell no, this is a terrible idea. They already have no stats, unless someone has spec'd for support. If they have spec'd for support then its appropriate. If you cant kill them all before someone gets the rez off then so what? Just means at least one of them is only a half baked potato.

dsalter

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Hell no, this is a terrible idea. They already have no stats, unless someone has spec'd for support. If they have spec'd for support then its appropriate. If you cant kill them all before someone gets the rez off then so what? Just means at least one of them is only a half baked potato.

the ones befitting from these setups most are usually bomb groups or destro trains..

Nerftheforums

Imo there has to be a 1min cooldown on the possibility to res. It's ok to have people ressing others, but it's totally not ok to have dedicated pugs that the only thing they do is res people that have died 4 or 5 times already in less than 30 seconds.

Gythral

lmao
Maybe it should be every time someone is rezzed close(15m) to the op the op get dizzy

Maura_Neysa

dsalter wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Hell no, this is a terrible idea. They already have no stats, unless someone has spec'd for support. If they have spec'd for support then its appropriate. If you cant kill them all before someone gets the rez off then so what? Just means at least one of them is only a half baked potato.

the ones befitting from these setups most are usually bomb groups or destro trains..

Yes, they do. Personally I laugh because my build specializes in destroying Bomb zerg trains. Until ZoS does something to destroy the bomb zerg meta though, that wont change, and half stats definitely wont stop bomb zergs.

dsalter

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Hell no, this is a terrible idea. They already have no stats, unless someone has spec'd for support. If they have spec'd for support then its appropriate. If you cant kill them all before someone gets the rez off then so what? Just means at least one of them is only a half baked potato.

the ones befitting from these setups most are usually bomb groups or destro trains..

Yes, they do. Personally I laugh because my build specializes in destroying Bomb zerg trains. Until ZoS does something to destroy the bomb zerg meta though, that wont change, and half stats definitely wont stop bomb zergs.

stopping their ability to self sustain their numbers is that step in the right direction tho.
once the trains and bombs become so hard to be successful normal combat can finally be ocused

VaranisArano

I'm very skeptical of suggestions that require making sweeping changes to gameplay to fix very small problems.

Seriously, we're talking about handing everyone in PVP a massive debuff upon death in order to deal with a few players in rez-bot builds?

Death comes quick and often in ESO PVP. Its nice to be able to get up and get back in the fight, whether at a nearby keep (have to ride back to the fight), a rez camp (someone had to spend AP to drop it), or someone had to stop fighting to rez.

If you fight often in PVP, you will die. Adding a one minute massive debuff that gets worse the more you die is basically handing everyone a one minute time out penalty for dying in a game where you die a lot in PVP.

I don't like that. The current system where death is fairly cheap encourages people taking risks that might get them killed and gets them right back to the fight. A one minute time out because the debuff gets worse if I get killed? That's not fun, not fun at all.

When I was learning to play in Cyrodiil, I died a ton. Part of the learning process and I wasn't overly punished for dying. This suggestion would have been brutal on me when I was learning. Even now, I think I would be far less likely to take risks, jump into fights, defend lost causes, or tag along with PUGs, all of which are pretty normal Cyrodiil activities if there was a massive debuff timer on death.

If you have a problem like small groups rezzing players, please consider using various tactics to overcome those players before you turn to sweeping changes that affect a lot more players than the ones you are having problems with. If you must call for nerfs, maybe try getting Kagrenacs or the CP passive for rezzing changed instead, something that actually addresses the cheese.

Temeraire507

Yeah, when you get overrun and you die you don't want to be ressed anymore. Great idea. Having attribute debuff once you died in a group combat situation would be like holding up a 'kill me' sign....

Temeraire507

I totally disagree on that idea

VaranisArano

Temeraire507 wrote: »

Yeah, when you get overrun and you die you don't want to be ressed anymore. Great idea. Having attribute debuff once you died in a group combat situation would be like holding up a 'kill me' sign....

Personally, I think it'd be more likely that most people wouldn't want to reengage after dying, which really slows down the PVP experience.

I mean, if I die defending a keep and get rezzed, I get a nasty debuff that will stack and get worse if I die again in a minute, so practically speaking Im better off standing on the walls light attacking and taking very few risks for the next minute. Boy, that's going to make for some thrilling PVP!

It would probably destroy the Bridge farm though, so YMMV on how positive that is.

vamp_emily

It seems like every time someone loses a battle they have to come up with some reason for why they lost and it has nothing to do with the real reason why. I see a lot of that recently on DC. Instead of players showing up to defend home keeps they would rather zone pvp and talk about how nobody is on, how ep is cheating.. ect. They have 1000s of excuses why they never have any keeps when they actually have to fight against players.

This is why I really believe they need to have a competitive campaign. No, Vivec is not competitive on DC side, it is a bunch of high cp players that just like to zone chat and take empty keeps.

Temeraire507

VaranisArano wrote: »

Temeraire507 wrote: »

Yeah, when you get overrun and you die you don't want to be ressed anymore. Great idea. Having attribute debuff once you died in a group combat situation would be like holding up a 'kill me' sign....

Personally, I think it'd be more likely that most people wouldn't want to reengage after dying, which really slows down the PVP experience.

I mean, if I die defending a keep and get rezzed, I get a nasty debuff that will stack and get worse if I die again in a minute, so practically speaking Im better off standing on the walls light attacking and taking very few risks for the next minute. Boy, that's going to make for some thrilling PVP!

It would probably destroy the Bridge farm though, so YMMV on how positive that is.

That could be a very positive effect but it also increases your potential of being overrun while defending

xaraan

I'd like to see this as well, but instead of dinging player stats or regen, just increase the time - either it takes twice as long to rez a player after they have been rezzed within X amount of time, stacking. Or add an increasing release counter kind of like the counter that pops up in IC to release. Either way, winning fights by zombie armies just rezzing and dying and throwing bodies at a problem needs to be curtailed a bit - they already have a ton of advantage just with base numbers at the start of a battle.

umagon

I like the idea of resurrection sickness for pvp. And forward camps need to have much longer cooldowns, somewhere around 30mins. Death needs to have some type of meaning and the zombie hordes need to end. There will be situations where opposing forces will be cleared out of the area then ten seconds later all 20+ of them are right back. The battles comedown to which side has the most camps or the largest force; not so much on who has the best tactics or strategies. And I am going say it even if people don’t like it; earthgore is like a mobile forward camp crutch in pvp and needs to be toned down.

Mystrius_Archaion

dsalter wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Hell no, this is a terrible idea. They already have no stats, unless someone has spec'd for support. If they have spec'd for support then its appropriate. If you cant kill them all before someone gets the rez off then so what? Just means at least one of them is only a half baked potato.

the ones befitting from these setups most are usually bomb groups or destro trains..

Yes, they do. Personally I laugh because my build specializes in destroying Bomb zerg trains. Until ZoS does something to destroy the bomb zerg meta though, that wont change, and half stats definitely wont stop bomb zergs.

stopping their ability to self sustain their numbers is that step in the right direction tho.
once the trains and bombs become so hard to be successful normal combat can finally be ocused

Cyrodiil is supposed to be Alliance Vs Alliance.
You can't stop big groups without killing it even more.

So, no, this will not change. Get a bigger group yourself.

Mystrius_Archaion

FYI, I have played games which give more consequences for loss and res timers. They suck. This would apply to everyone also. You would sit there watching your group still have a chance of winning if you could only pop back up and join them but you can't.
You would definitely find situations where you hate your own request, but they can't customize it to your advantage, which is the whole point of this. Just another person who wants the developers to help them win rather than get player help or a better strategy.

GeorgeBlack

Cyrodiil is a hostile environment alrdy.
Loading screens
Horseriding. Adding a rez penalty would increase the time of non enjoyable game.

Then dont forget how punishing PvP is for inexperienced players.
Never in a game have I seen 1v5+. In most games 1v3 would end up bad for the one, unless the 1 is 75lv and the 3 are 20lv.

By penalizing the losers you make PvP a place where they are just tools for the enjoyment of others while they do not enjoy PvP.

I am against Death Penalties.
Delete Forward camps and we are good

GreenSoup2HoT

we need a stake that we can stab into players preventing rez.

like a stomp in GW2

dsalter

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

FYI, I have played games which give more consequences for loss and res timers. They suck. This would apply to everyone also. You would sit there watching your group still have a chance of winning if you could only pop back up and join them but you can't.
You would definitely find situations where you hate your own request, but they can't customize it to your advantage, which is the whole point of this. Just another person who wants the developers to help them win rather than get player help or a better strategy.

i actually know how to deal with these groups, i'm literally setup for it, thing is i have to ditch what i find fun just to actually shut down the fun killers.
so why do i and 3 others have to go as a small team to shut down people, or at least try, just so others can actually get a chance to fight back and have some fun of their own?

edit: besides the tools we are given to deal with said groups are far less impactful than the hive mind, the moment they see us busting them up they get the 2-3 ressers on res duty and start chasing us till either the keep flips or they catch us.
the res duty undoes the group we "bust" faster than i can throw out 2(x4 cause 4 man group) inevitable dets because of stacking res speeds+templars, and the bonus of being revived not only with full hp but immediately ready to reunite with the hive mind

bella_nyx

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Imo there has to be a 1min cooldown on the possibility to res. It's ok to have people ressing others, but it's totally not ok to have dedicated pugs that the only thing they do is res people that have died 4 or 5 times already in less than 30 seconds.

I like this idea. Seems very fair.

DoctorESO

dsalter wrote: »

i'm talking 20% less stats for 1min, stacking, because lets be honest a group of 4 cheese players repeatedly ressing eachother in 2 seconds and more or less resetting fights till they get swarmed by 20+ players isnt good gameplay, its cheesy as hell.
the power ressing is problem of its own which tbh should be adressed but maybe weaker players after repeated res usage could solve that cheese at least.

also my favorite res thing, wiping out a massive attack in defence only for 1 shmuck setup to res in 2 seconds reviving the entire assault before you even get a chance to stop him.

No one likes the thought of having to ride on a horse for 5-10 minutes to get back to the fight.

dsalter

DoctorESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

i'm talking 20% less stats for 1min, stacking, because lets be honest a group of 4 cheese players repeatedly ressing eachother in 2 seconds and more or less resetting fights till they get swarmed by 20+ players isnt good gameplay, its cheesy as hell.
the power ressing is problem of its own which tbh should be adressed but maybe weaker players after repeated res usage could solve that cheese at least.

also my favorite res thing, wiping out a massive attack in defence only for 1 shmuck setup to res in 2 seconds reviving the entire assault before you even get a chance to stop him.

No one likes the thought of having to ride on a horse for 5-10 minutes to get back to the fight.

well there is that side of the coin... wonder if there is a middle ground, more places to spawn? res cooldown? i want to cure the irritation that is putting down a hive mind without them getting back up in seconds unless guarded until they release, do you know how boring camping a swarm is for 6-8mins is? just so they cant get up in less than a minute and terrorize the masses again?

DoctorESO

dsalter wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

i'm talking 20% less stats for 1min, stacking, because lets be honest a group of 4 cheese players repeatedly ressing eachother in 2 seconds and more or less resetting fights till they get swarmed by 20+ players isnt good gameplay, its cheesy as hell.
the power ressing is problem of its own which tbh should be adressed but maybe weaker players after repeated res usage could solve that cheese at least.

also my favorite res thing, wiping out a massive attack in defence only for 1 shmuck setup to res in 2 seconds reviving the entire assault before you even get a chance to stop him.

No one likes the thought of having to ride on a horse for 5-10 minutes to get back to the fight.

well there is that side of the coin... wonder if there is a middle ground, more places to spawn? res cooldown? i want to cure the irritation that is putting down a hive mind without them getting back up in seconds unless guarded until they release, do you know how boring camping a swarm is for 6-8mins is? just so they cant get up in less than a minute and terrorize the masses again?

Yeah, its boring!

IAVITNI

too be fair if you let someone res outside of combat you didn't check your corners so it's really your fault. I would like to see this applied to players that fail to resurrect i.e. are interrupted.

Also doesn't sound like your targeting bomb trains but small scale players that fight outnumbered. Solo/small scale is dying out. No need to punish them more. If it takes +20 players to kill 4 people, the real cheese is why are you sending +20 people to kill 4 people?

dsalter

IAVITNI wrote: »

too be fair if you let someone res outside of combat you didn't check your corners so it's really your fault. I would like to see this applied to players that fail to resurrect i.e. are interrupted.

Also doesn't sound like your targeting bomb trains but small scale players that fight outnumbered. Solo/small scale is dying out. No need to punish them more. If it takes +20 players to kill 4 people, the real cheese is why are you sending +20 people to kill 4 people?

no. i'm fighting trains and bombs, my setup is specifically built for them, small scale i hit like a noodle, the 4 man cheese groups being able to cause such a problem because of res abuse just shows how imbalanced some builds actually are, personally i find it fine to maybe 1v3 or 4, but anything higher and your builds over performing.

when i roam with a random small scale of 5-10 i always find being ressed more than once means your going to end this fight with a keep teleport in the end because if they'v put you down twice, your just stalling at that rate.
the hive mind tho, they work differently, they dont aim to keep the castles they hit them for kills and make keeping the swarm alive a priority as the less there is the less they can spam AoE super damage to purge everyone in its path, they'll haply wait you out before releasing just to get up and continue plaguing the map for their sweet ap juice.

Slick_007

dsalter wrote: »

stopping their ability to self sustain their numbers is that step in the right direction tho.
once the trains and bombs become so hard to be successful normal combat can finally be ocused

maybe you should learn to kill them all, or interrupt rezzes. i bet you didnt even know you could do that.

SydneyGrey

No.

dsalter

Slick_007 wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

stopping their ability to self sustain their numbers is that step in the right direction tho.
once the trains and bombs become so hard to be successful normal combat can finally be ocused

maybe you should learn to kill them all, or interrupt rezzes. i bet you didnt even know you could do that.

as pointed out above, do you know how mind numbingly boring it is to camp the whole lot of them till auto release is triggered?
6-8mins of sitting twiddling your thumbs in case the possibility of a power mass res happens and they siege straight away to cut you off so they can go round 20+ with their pathetic farm trains since the way the system works is if you ignore them, they make you look, just like a drunk dark elf woman.

now call me crazy, but if a train/bomb group can holt an entire segment of players by being able to sustain themselves with 2second res casts (ok its roughly 2.5, i have a resplar and its cheesy af, i rarely use it unless trains are duffing us harder) because you dont just "inturrupt" 2-3 dedicated res spammers in the center of a ball group picking up their dead, the moment they are stood up again they go back to work as if nothing happened, fully functioning.
every other MMO, hell even ESO OWN respawn feature in BG's works on a CD, not much but its there to STOP this kind of cheese.

Twohothardware

I think there should be a time limit to Rez a dead player before their forced to respawn. It would force players to go for the Rez in the fight if they want to save teammates instead of being able to kill everyone then get all the dead players up making it pointless that u killed any of them since u didn't kill all of them.