Should we encourage more players to complete vMA as a learning program?

JJBoomer · April 2018

I'm going to say a hard NO, on content gating anything in this form. vMA sucks. I would never force that on anyone. However, those that wish to be competitive end-gamers, sure, encourage them to do it.

But as far as the people that play this game simply to have fun should not be barred from content because they didn't complete one single aspect of it.

As far as teaching players. I stand behind the community approach of like, actually being nice to be people and teaching them ourselves and actually feeling accomplished. But I know being nice to people in this game is difficult for a lot of the Super Special Awesome Skilled Players™

Knowledge · April 2018

Aurielle wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

I’d rather gate veteran DLC and base game vet II content behind completion of the normal versions of those dungeons; a lot of those dungeons have mechanics that can’t be bypassed with DPS, so completing them on normal first ensures that everyone at least has a basic idea of what to expect.

VMA does teach you a lot about your class and how to survive in difficult content, but it’s completely unrealistic to gate group content behind completion of vMA.

How can we give incentive for doing it without forcing players to do it?

Perhaps more rewards? Weapons tokens, weapon choice? If you beat it.

The weapons and titles are already incentive enough. I realize you’re probably just trolling, but I’ll bite: if you genuinely want to encourage someone to run vMA, explain the benefit of the weapons you get from the content, explain the benefit of learning the content (e.g. better survival skills), and help them learn how to complete it. Gating content behind vMA will only drive people away. You really have to WANT to complete vMA to have the patience to see it through to the end. If it’s just an unwanted roadblock on the way to other content, people are going to play other games that don’t have such restrictive gating conditions.

Why do you assume I am trolling? There's no basis and my argument is legitimate. Perhaps I am just a person that is willing to argue for things that others would but worry about being liked. I understand there will be dissenting opinion but I am sure this thread will bring out others, as it has, that would have otherwise made a post or idea like this.

The purpose of this extreme idea is to come up with better and more reasonable compromises. For example, we now how a poster suggesting a training course that is designed for players. It's becoming a productive discussion.

Last, this game can be daunting at the high levels of play for most. It's a harder MMORPG and not as forgiving or hand holding as WoW so training is essential, in my eyes.

The Uninvited · April 2018

Silly thread. Some of us were running trials/vDSA long before vMA came to be.

I like group activities, that's why I don't like the place at all.

Wayshuba · April 2018

No.

vMA usually requires a build built for tackling it - a build you wouldn't use in a lot of circumstances.

Tanks/Healers, it is self-explanatory - they are mainly built for group or PvP activities.

DPS will have specific rotations to maximize DPS in dungeons/trials which are not always useful in vMA.

If players want to learn a particular type of content - PvP, trials, or vet group activities - they will get better by doing the actual content they are trying to get good at. vMA is not going to help someone be much better for trials.

Sure, you can learn mechanics and environmental awareness, but you will get that in Vet dungeons and trials.

Might as well say that for training, new players should do the Menagerie fight on Veteran repeatedly until no one dies in the fight. If you can do that fight on Vet regularly, I think you got your environmental awareness down pretty good.

Karm1cOne · April 2018

I personally prefer my mmos to be group play. Vma is fine for those who are into soul crushing content, but I play this game to play with friends.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · April 2018

Why not opening a chest with 2 random Maelstrom items with 150 undaunted keys. You know, since you can get SPC without ever entering the WGT, why not doing the same with the Maelstrom...

Aurielle · April 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

I’d rather gate veteran DLC and base game vet II content behind completion of the normal versions of those dungeons; a lot of those dungeons have mechanics that can’t be bypassed with DPS, so completing them on normal first ensures that everyone at least has a basic idea of what to expect.

VMA does teach you a lot about your class and how to survive in difficult content, but it’s completely unrealistic to gate group content behind completion of vMA.

How can we give incentive for doing it without forcing players to do it?

Perhaps more rewards? Weapons tokens, weapon choice? If you beat it.

The weapons and titles are already incentive enough. I realize you’re probably just trolling, but I’ll bite: if you genuinely want to encourage someone to run vMA, explain the benefit of the weapons you get from the content, explain the benefit of learning the content (e.g. better survival skills), and help them learn how to complete it. Gating content behind vMA will only drive people away. You really have to WANT to complete vMA to have the patience to see it through to the end. If it’s just an unwanted roadblock on the way to other content, people are going to play other games that don’t have such restrictive gating conditions.

Why do you assume I am trolling? There's no basis and my argument is legitimate. Perhaps I am just a person that is willing to argue for things that others would but worry about being liked. I understand there will be dissenting opinion but I am sure this thread will bring out others, as it has, that would have otherwise made a post or idea like this.

The purpose of this extreme idea is to come up with better and more reasonable compromises. For example, we now how a poster suggesting a training course that is designed for players. It's becoming a productive discussion.

Last, this game can be daunting at the high levels of play for most. It's a harder MMORPG and not as forgiving or hand holding as WoW so training is essential, in my eyes.

I assume you’re trolling because the suggestion is so unreasonable, unrealistic, and not at all in keeping with the soft level gating that ZOS has implemented since day one. You can’t possibly believe that ZOS would take this thread seriously, can you?

VMA has only been completed by a small fraction of players. I completed vet Scalecaller Peak before I completed VMA, so the suggestion that it better prepares players for tough vet content is unfounded. VMA teaches you nothing about effective group play; it simply teaches you to get good at surviving tough content solo while also dishing out a respectable amount of damage. That’s useful, to be sure, but it would make far more sense to gate tough veteran group content behind account-bound completion of the same content on normal mode. Once you learn the mechanics on normal, it is easier to complete the content on veteran. Getting past stage 9 on VMA ain’t gonna help someone with vet Zaan; completing nSP will.

kylewwefan · April 2018

No freaking way! I spent over a year in there stuck at the last boss. Spent 45 minutes a day for a month trying to beat him. Sure, it made me a better player, and I still play Maelstrom. But I couldn’t see forcing anyone to do it.

Normal won’t help you. And vet is soul crushing. Not everyone plays at that level.

If you look at the playerbase that has completed it well that’s %0.4 on PS4. It has gone up quite a bit, but nowhere near the levels to consider it a prerequisite.

I think most people would quit the game before stepping foot in there.

VaranisArano · April 2018

I'm not sure how this suggestion got past the obvious problem.

Veteran Maelstrom Arena is part of the Orsinium DLC. Not base game content.

You can't gate player access to base game content or content in other DLCs or chapters behind something contained in a DLC.

Then again, ignoring obvious problems with the central idea is a common trend on these sorts of threads.

Mannix1958 · April 2018

Aesthier wrote: »

"Brilliant. Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"

~Abnur Tharn

I'd give you another awesome if I could...great use of the quote

TequilaFire · April 2018

I will go along with the idea as long as being at least a Legate in PvP is also required.

Leandor · April 2018

@Knowledge tell me, why would you make a thread like this? Why start off with a good idea (i.e. discuss a way to make vMA more attractive for players) and hide in between a terribly controversial and very harmful idea of content gating behind something that will exclude a significant part of the game population from progressing beyond this gate?

What is your purpose behind this? Do you want to aggravate people? Why hide the controversial part so well that many will read over it? What is the use of this discussion other than duping people to agree to something no one in their right mind would want?

I sincerely do not understand why, in almost all of your posts, your participate in this underhanded way. Please enlighten me.

Betsararie · April 2018

I've always loved VMA, not because it's particularly fun, but because it's a true test of one's skill. It's more than valid for VMA to be used as a qualifier of sorts.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2018

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DPS doenst have to be insanely high to complete it, 25k dps is good enough.

^^THIS^^ is EXACTLY the type of comment that needs to be avoided if you want to encourage people to try vMA. Because 25K dps IS an INSANELY HIGH amount of dps for over 90% of players.

Betsararie · April 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DPS doenst have to be insanely high to complete it, 25k dps is good enough.

Because 25K dps IS an INSANELY HIGH amount of dps for over 90% of players.

Nope. It's an insanely high DPS for no one

Harrdarrzarr · April 2018

For reason like these, I really like the new tutorial from Summerset

FearlessOne_2014 · April 2018

I got a idea! how about giving people the option to only queue up with others that have the vMA clear achievement? That way content wouldn't be gated for those who can't clear it. And those who can clear can have the option to only queue with those who can.

Something like this may get me back interested in doing harder group dungeon content. That none of my guilds want to do at all.

DanteYoda · April 2018

Final fantasy online tried this.. gating the story line behind stupid dungeons.. I quit after one month..

NordSwordnBoard · April 2018

Encourage? Yes

Gate other content? No

shootatme80 · April 2018

I wouldn't force it on anyone. I suggest everyone try vma at some point. You will come out a better player

Aesthier · April 2018

Mannix1958 wrote: »

Aesthier wrote: »

"Brilliant. Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"

~Abnur Tharn

I'd give you another awesome if I could...great use of the quote

I was working on the companion quests while reading the forums and I heard that about 10 seconds after reading the OP's opening statement.

It was a sign I could not ignore.

GreenhaloX · April 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Veteran Maelstrom Arena can teach a person a lot about how to play their class and how to play the game beyond a basic level. This would be an ideal training course for prospective guild members, group members, or PVPers. Perhaps, in an effort to better the community, we should take it upon ourselves to suggest that people who have not done vMA do it and also lobby for some sort of content gating behind the completion of Veteran Maelstrom Arena.

VMA is a good solo endgame challenge and can surely improve upon a player's ability of the toon, but, there are many other contents (such as soloing world bosses and vet dungeons, or dueling and PvP) that can also teach a player the same on knowing the skills and abilities of a class/toon (and themselves on improvement on their gameplay.) However, I think folks do not need encouragement to do vMA or any of the world boss pits and vet dungeons sololy. I'm sure they could decide for themselves if such higher level of difficulty contents are meant for them to do sololy. Also, vMA is not really consider a training course for anything. It is more for you masochists, sorry, I meant hardcore ESO gamers wanting the Maelstrom weapons.

Anrose · April 2018

I think as players, we should encourage other players to complete it. But gate content behind a clear? Nah, that’s lame.

The journey to my first vMA clear made me a much better player in all aspects of the game. The need to rely on yourself for buffs, resources, heals, etc combined with the situational awareness needed to complete it really helped my become a better PvEer as well as a better PvPer.

So yeah, if someone is looking to challenge themselves to be a better player, definitely encourage them to do it. But if they don’t want to, then you can’t make them.

JKorr · April 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

I’d rather gate veteran DLC and base game vet II content behind completion of the normal versions of those dungeons; a lot of those dungeons have mechanics that can’t be bypassed with DPS, so completing them on normal first ensures that everyone at least has a basic idea of what to expect.

VMA does teach you a lot about your class and how to survive in difficult content, but it’s completely unrealistic to gate group content behind completion of vMA.

How can we give incentive for doing it without forcing players to do it?

Perhaps more rewards? Weapons tokens, weapon choice? If you beat it.

"Forcing" players to do anything is a total no, Knowledge. You may be some kind of competitive professional uber god player who skips the "normal" level content, but many others play this game for fun, enjoyment, and relaxation. Forcing me to do content I don't want to do in order to do other content I do want to do would make me quit playing. Doesn't matter what that content is; force me into pvp to do pve content and I'd walk. Force me into battlegrounds, same result. I have no interest in trials. Its taken me from early access until now to get the normal group dungeons done, and I still have 2 to go for the Aldemeri Dominion.

I've been playing since early access, have a second account, I went through Doshia and the dopplegangers before they nerfed the content and died quite a bit, but that was okay because I was interested in the game and wanted to do it. Force me into content I don't want and have no interest in and I'll drop the game, despite the time and money I've put into it [been subbed since early access; bought all the dlc, bought all the senche mounts that aren't in the crates along with some other stuff]. It would no longer be worth it.

ZOS_Ragnar · April 2018

We have removed several posts from this thread that were off-topic and non-constructive. Please ensure that future posts contribute to the discussion.

Kuramas9tails · April 2018

First thing, make VMA base game like they are with Battle Grounds.

Vapirko · April 2018

Normal MA maybe. vMA is really only something you can handle once you have a very solid grasp on your class and how to dps, self heal and kite. I mean you have people struggling with overland mobs. That person is not gonna benefit from vet Maelstrom Arena.

Micah_Bayer · April 2018

timb16_ESO85 wrote: »

/sarcasm

Yes, let healers and tank be tested in vMA, that's a great idea. If they can complete it with a completely different build than is required for their role, they sure have a good grasp on the game. We could certainly use more tanks who think their role is running in and making sure everything either dies or attacks and kills the healer in dungeon finder groups.

/end sarcasm

I don't think there is a healer role really...good spell dmg, lots of magicka =healer and dps. Normally healers just use breath of life and if one skill makes you a healer then I guess my dps is a healer too. Healers can fight..they contribute. They do not only stay in the back.

Septimus_Magna · April 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DPS doenst have to be insanely high to complete it, 25k dps is good enough.

^^THIS^^ is EXACTLY the type of comment that needs to be avoided if you want to encourage people to try vMA. Because 25K dps IS an INSANELY HIGH amount of dps for over 90% of players.

Maybe they should try something else than light attack bow spam

Edit: Joking aside, anyone how has access to Youtube can learn to do 25k dps with sets that are easy to obtain.
If you think its really hard to parse that something about your build/playstyle is fundamentally off.

Orjix · April 2018

Been stuck on rink of frozen blood for about a year now, imma have to go with "no"