Yeah, I don't have time to read 5 pages of this, so I'll jump straight to the anecdote:

We were doing Scalecaller Peak yesterday, it was my first time, and I was running my stamina warden healer (which is not optimal, but far from crap).

I was healing, and 2 friends of mine were on tank and DD, we were one short so we had to pug the 2nd DD.

We got someone fairly high in CP (770 iirc), and we went on with the dungeon.

Was soon apparent that the guy was far from being a pro. Our DD was doing 60% of the group damage, and I (the healer) was doing 18%.

We were on voice and got a bit frustrated, but said nothing and decided to /carry instead.

First boss the pug died (I died too), and then died a second time near execute, and started writing in chat "plssss". it wasn't a "ress plssss", so I can't be sure it wasn't just a frustration thing. One thing for sure, you don't ress people during execute.

Our tank was very frustrated, because less dps means he has to tank for longer, but wrote nothing in chat. Plus he hates people.

In hope of getting more survivability, the pug switched to a heavy armor setup (the tank was very displeased, at this point he was quite furious), in hope of surviving more, not realizing it was the oneshot mechanics that was killing them, and not the lack of healing (I was putting out 35k Hot).

By the time we got to the Nereids, and as any ESO player knows, when you see a Nereid, you kill the Nereid, the pug was just standing behind watching.

We got to the Matron, and the tank started a vote to kick.

Some less than gracious comment was made in the Say channel by our tank.

At this point you're probably thinking either "Fair is fair" or "Wow what a bunch of elitists"

Here's the thing.

If that person decided to take the time and write in chat anything like "I've never done this dungeon", or "Sorry guys, I'm new to this", or the more common "I don't think I can complete, if you want to replace me it's fine", here's what would've happened:

That person would've been invited to our discord, explained the mechanics, and carried through the dungeon if necessary.

Instead they choose to stay silent.

Personally, I don't care if it's fear, social anxiety or just plain selfishness in deciding to say nothing and see how far you can go. It's a new dungeon, and people are expected to do their part. If you can't, at least say something. That was rude.

If you have social anxiety, don't sign up for social content, or have the decency to pull out on your own if it's content that requires interaction.

If you can't communicate (don't speak a chosen language, e.g. English, spoken by the majority of the group) don't sign up for content that requires communication.

If you fear the reaction of people when you say stuff like "I'm new to this", ask to be kicked, and you can queue up straight away.

Sometimes you think it's rude.

Sometimes, maybe, people just don't like to have their time wasted.

I work all day, I can rarely play in the afternoon. If you expect me to carry your ass through content you can't do, at least have the decency to offer to drop out, I'll probably carry your ass then, but at least I know I've been treated with respect.

MercyKilling wrote: »

duendology wrote: »

if people followed one simple rule....JUST ONE! Treat others as you want to be treated.

So when someone is being a d**chenozzle, you can be one back?

Yes.

To the limits of what's allowed by the ToS and the EULA, ofc.

You can't berate their creed, sexual orientation, ethnic features or invite them to commit suicide (in a nutshell).

Minyassa wrote: »

Something that people who never encounter rude people should know: You are blessed. Seriously, you have Radiant Apex Mount luck. The RNG of life favors you. And I think this is a good analogy, because if you won several Radiant Apex Mounts, wouldn't you think that it's normal and other people complaining about not winning them are just complaining over nothing, making it up, or not even opening crown crates? We only know what our own experiences are...unless we listen to other people and do not assume they are lying.

I have a friend who had never been maliciously mudballed or griefed in this game, and she was boggled at my and another friend's tales of being followed by mudballers or people who were angry about being duel-request-denied because that just wasn't real to her. I had the feeling she thought I was exaggerating. One day I tp'd to her to show her something, and some rando came out of the wayshrine and started mudballing me repeatedly for several minutes. She was flabbergasted. That *never* happens to her, she'd never seen it before, and so to her this was not a real thing that happened, until she saw it happen to me.

You may not run into rude people in the game, and that's GREAT for you, it really is, you have a rare and unique fortune. But do NOT assume it means that other people aren't encountering the worst dregs of human garbage in this game on a regular basis, because some people *do* have bad luck with the type of people they meet, and it colors their view of what the game community is made of. Be glad if that isn't your experience, but don't snort at others who claim differently. You haven't been them.

Is your char an argonian? Maybe that's it...

Aliyavana wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Yeah the ESO community is horrible worst MMO community I've been apart of if this wasn't an Elder Scrolls game I would have left long ago.

I feel you havnt played many mmos

I've started with WOW in 2007 granted I was a super casual never raided or anything endgame stop playing in 09 ive played a lot of crap free to play MMOs on and off such as Aura Kingdom, Skyforge Star Trek Online both PC and later on Xbox One same with Neverwinter and Tera and since getting a new PC last month I'm level 35 in FF14:RR

In Star Trek Online, Neverwinter and Tera people were generally pretty nice to me and helpful wanting me to join guilds left and right and offering build advice which is surprising for free to play games since they usually bring the worst of the worst. there was a few scammers and loud mouths but generally ok

but compared to ESO its night and day its crazy the crap I've put up with in this game I had to block 100+ in a 3 month period last year. I was talking in zone chat to a buddy of mine and some random kid xbox live messaged me that I sucked for no reason. I made a guildmate free twice born star and upgraded it to blue 2 days later he gets online and for no reason the guy flips out on me and tells me off you would have thought I slept with his girlfriend or something the way this guy was yelling and bad mouthing me and my guild. I used to get death threats regularly in Cyrodill pvp and not just the "your bad kid kys" like some seriously vulgar stuff I can't even begin to repeat on here maybe this game is tamer on PC but in my limited experience on PC its just as bad.

Never played SWTOR so I have no idea how bad it was but I've been told it was bad

I will say these forums are pretty tame compared to those others and I used to be a regular on the Battlefield 3/4 Fourms those were crazy times

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

People can deny it all they want but most human beings are actually genuinely disgusting.

They are rude on the net because they can get away with it.

Yup you are right

Get a thicker skin. What more is there to be said.

Millennials especially in my experience, walk around as if the world owes them a pat on the back and some cuddles. It doesn't. Respect is earned and before that you can expect people to disregard you completely. Its called human nature.

RainfeatherUK wrote: »

Get a thicker skin. What more is there to be said.

Millennials especially in my experience, walk around as if the world owes them a pat on the back and some cuddles. It doesn't. Respect is earned and before that you can expect people to disregard you completely. Its called human nature.

Your right, I shouldn't expect other people not to judge what they don't know. But I recon some basic forms of proper behavior isn't to much to expect??
I know that that's how I approach players I don't know.....
You Never know what happens, one of the oldest “friends“ I have here I met in combat and we've gotten on very well ever since, simply by sticking to some basic rules of communication for example “don't judge him and or his abilities by the 2 min fight you had over some resource“ etc...

I usually try and explaining it in different ways, for example if the person does something technical irl ill adjust my explanation vs someone who for example some guy who work in a supermarket. Maby they ar ent just dumb but having problems understanding the explanation??? Works for me..

" Be excellent to each other!"

Bill S. Preston

Juju_beans wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I once tried to help out a lowbie on his bow la spamming build when he qued into my vet scalecaller, he called me an elitist and said that high end players are toxic. Some lowbies take build critism badly

Only give advice if advice was asked for.

You didn't "give advice" because none was asked. You criticized him..you judged him. Criticizing generates destructive energy.

That's psychology 101.

This is wrong in many levels

I have no issue with players trying to be effective and falling a little short; we’ve all been there and I don’t mind doing a little more. The fake tanks and healers are really an issue though. They should create a system where as a tank if you don’t take 50% or more of the damage or as a healer you don’t do 50% or more of the teams total heals then you don’t get drops.

RebornV3x wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Yeah the ESO community is horrible worst MMO community I've been apart of if this wasn't an Elder Scrolls game I would have left long ago.

I feel you havnt played many mmos

I've started with WOW in 2007 granted I was a super casual never raided or anything endgame stop playing in 09 ive played a lot of crap free to play MMOs on and off such as Aura Kingdom, Skyforge Star Trek Online both PC and later on Xbox One same with Neverwinter and Tera and since getting a new PC last month I'm level 35 in FF14:RR

In Star Trek Online, Neverwinter and Tera people were generally pretty nice to me and helpful wanting me to join guilds left and right and offering build advice which is surprising for free to play games since they usually bring the worst of the worst. there was a few scammers and loud mouths but generally ok

but compared to ESO its night and day its crazy the crap I've put up with in this game I had to block 100+ in a 3 month period last year. I was talking in zone chat to a buddy of mine and some random kid xbox live messaged me that I sucked for no reason. I made a guildmate free twice born star and upgraded it to blue 2 days later he gets online and for no reason the guy flips out on me and tells me off you would have thought I slept with his girlfriend or something the way this guy was yelling and bad mouthing me and my guild. I used to get death threats regularly in Cyrodill pvp and not just the "your bad kid kys" like some seriously vulgar stuff I can't even begin to repeat on here maybe this game is tamer on PC but in my limited experience on PC its just as bad.

Never played SWTOR so I have no idea how bad it was but I've been told it was bad

I will say these forums are pretty tame compared to those others and I used to be a regular on the Battlefield 3/4 Fourms those were crazy times

Most if those are dead mmo. And don't really count as mmo because of counter productive systems that lean more on solo play vs group play.

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

RainfeatherUK wrote: »

Get a thicker skin. What more is there to be said.

Millennials especially in my experience, walk around as if the world owes them a pat on the back and some cuddles. It doesn't. Respect is earned and before that you can expect people to disregard you completely. Its called human nature.

Your right, I shouldn't expect other people not to judge what they don't know. But I recon some basic forms of proper behavior isn't to much to expect??
I know that that's how I approach players I don't know.....
You Never know what happens, one of the oldest “friends“ I have here I met in combat and we've gotten on very well ever since, simply by sticking to some basic rules of communication for example “don't judge him and or his abilities by the 2 min fight you had over some resource“ etc...

You shouldn't assume that people will adhere to standards of behavior. We aren't living in a day of chivalry and good charity but rather capitalism and extreme vanity. People associate by what you might call 'clique'ism' - they strongly associate by demographic and value their place in that. They won't so much as acknowledge you as relevant in an anonymous 'world' like the net, because its a passive way of engendering a value to their clique.

That said; your latter part/last paragraph, is true across time. It reflects what I said about respect. Just as Saladin and King Richard came to regard each other with respect for their respective achievements; so to do people come to appreciate earned equals. Battle is unique in this regard on many levels; just look at how people regard the 40's generation. They aren't called the 'greatest generation' because they sat at home expecting respect; they earned it head on. Earning them the admiration of generations to come.

Initial negativity by human beings, as unpleasant as it can be, is an important element of human self defense and protection. People have the free will to dislike something and act upon it. The only caveat being consequence of action. Which is why people perceive a lack of empathy or respect in games as you have. It is however, more correct to say that its simply 'human nature amplified' here.

That shouldn't be made to change. Even though the opposite can seem to be the case. Much adversity leads to growth. Peoples cliques create value in a world where many feel value-less. Its about perspective. The harder respect is won; the more it matters to everyone. That shouldn't be discredited.

Its the same with charity. Its a good thing; until its used over abundantly and without discernment. At which point it becomes trite and meaningless. Devoid of weight and social impact.

Much as it would be in peoples wishes to make everyone in an MMO 'friendly on arrival' it cannot be thus and arguably never should be in this life. When you take away contrast and lead toward homogeneity, diversity and meaning are forever damaged in very unpredictable ways.

I actually like the trolls and the fools. They set the context and substance of why we even try to be better in the first place.