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Shieldbreaker and oblivion damage in general
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Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So a pointless video and go make a sorc is the best arguement you can all come up with! Maybe that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet is because SB does not prevent you from using any of the working counters above, but your all just stuck on repeat and refuse to adapt.
Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? Lol so keep shield stacking and crying for nerfs and see how that works out for you. I guess I'm not a top level sorc since I don't die to SB.
No its no the best argument.
All of us here have given good valid arguments with numbers, real in-game examples of the numbers that mutagen, healing ward, surge etc. pulls when compared to shieldbreaker and the unviability of builds that CAN handle shieldbreaker vs everybody else.
We've given them time and time again over months and months - to the same people time and time again - people who have never, ever played magsorc in PVP without dedicated healers. People who refuse to listen time and time again to those who HAVE played the class - a lot - and know what they are talking about.
We've given them until we're blue in the face and so sick to death of talking to a plank, we simply give you the TL:DR ... Do what BohnT did - make your own sorc - play it and see. It made him change his opinion on the set.
Nothing more to be said really. There's no point me pulling out real numbers again - cus you'll only ignore them.
Kind of like how you ignored everything I said. I play magscorc and I've seen all the numbers in the threads through the years and your second sentence demonstrates exactly why you're stuck in this cycle of complaining and dieing repeatedly.
If you're getting hit with SB stop shield stacking, yes healing ward is a shield! Have some health and resistance in your build and when you come across a SB user stop shield stacking, apply your hot's, cc them, and go on the offensive. If you're not stacking then SB is not hurting you, if you cc them they are not hurting you, if you're on the offensive they are not hurting you. Problem is you're all just stuck in this belief you have to play sorc the way it was 4 years ago and refuse to adapt.
Things have changed drastically since release and relying on the same thing you did 4 years ago doesn't work. Accept it, adapt, and overcome or keep complaining, but clearly that is not getting you anywhere.
Yeah you say that you play a sorc and that you made a competitive build that doesnt rely on shields yet everytime anyone tells you to share it you say nothing at all or change subject.
My gear is always changing, but my strategy has been the same and I've shared that multiple times. I do use hardened ward, but I have enough sense to keep an eye on my health bars and sound queues so I know when to stop shielding and have enough health, resistance, and hot's to carry me through long enough to burst down the squishy SB user or use LOS.
Shields or not I always keep 2 hot's going at all times on all my characters magic or stam, doing anything less in this Zerg meta is suicide. If you really want to get into gear then I've used spinners, shackle, necro, julianos, WM, chudan, etc, but none of that really matters if you're not willing to adjust your play style.
0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So a pointless video and go make a sorc is the best arguement you can all come up with! Maybe that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet is because SB does not prevent you from using any of the working counters above, but your all just stuck on repeat and refuse to adapt.
Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? Lol so keep shield stacking and crying for nerfs and see how that works out for you. I guess I'm not a top level sorc since I don't die to SB.
No its no the best argument.
All of us here have given good valid arguments with numbers, real in-game examples of the numbers that mutagen, healing ward, surge etc. pulls when compared to shieldbreaker and the unviability of builds that CAN handle shieldbreaker vs everybody else.
We've given them time and time again over months and months - to the same people time and time again - people who have never, ever played magsorc in PVP without dedicated healers. People who refuse to listen time and time again to those who HAVE played the class - a lot - and know what they are talking about.
We've given them until we're blue in the face and so sick to death of talking to a plank, we simply give you the TL:DR ... Do what BohnT did - make your own sorc - play it and see. It made him change his opinion on the set.
Nothing more to be said really. There's no point me pulling out real numbers again - cus you'll only ignore them.
Kind of like how you ignored everything I said. I play magscorc and I've seen all the numbers in the threads through the years and your second sentence demonstrates exactly why you're stuck in this cycle of complaining and dieing repeatedly.
If you're getting hit with SB stop shield stacking, yes healing ward is a shield! Have some health and resistance in your build and when you come across a SB user stop shield stacking, apply your hot's, cc them, and go on the offensive. If you're not stacking then SB is not hurting you, if you cc them they are not hurting you, if you're on the offensive they are not hurting you. Problem is you're all just stuck in this belief you have to play sorc the way it was 4 years ago and refuse to adapt.
Things have changed drastically since release and relying on the same thing you did 4 years ago doesn't work. Accept it, adapt, and overcome or keep complaining, but clearly that is not getting you anywhere.
Not once have I ever seen a SB user alone.... Tell a lie, I did last week, well - kind of drew him out.. then killed him.
It isn't about adapting, or the skill of the player - its simply that the set is stupidly overpowered.
Its about how much pressure a completely skillless player can put on somebody with it.
Its about blind luck as to whether YOU get cc'd at the time when you realise you're getting SB'd..
Its about how you have to massively outplay your opponent to simply have a chance.
If the only argument you can come up with is 'you're bad - adapt' - you're talking to the wrong person, and completely missing the point - as usual.Edited by Biro123 on April 25, 2018 7:13PMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So a pointless video and go make a sorc is the best arguement you can all come up with! Maybe that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet is because SB does not prevent you from using any of the working counters above, but your all just stuck on repeat and refuse to adapt.
Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? Lol so keep shield stacking and crying for nerfs and see how that works out for you. I guess I'm not a top level sorc since I don't die to SB.
No its no the best argument.
All of us here have given good valid arguments with numbers, real in-game examples of the numbers that mutagen, healing ward, surge etc. pulls when compared to shieldbreaker and the unviability of builds that CAN handle shieldbreaker vs everybody else.
We've given them time and time again over months and months - to the same people time and time again - people who have never, ever played magsorc in PVP without dedicated healers. People who refuse to listen time and time again to those who HAVE played the class - a lot - and know what they are talking about.
We've given them until we're blue in the face and so sick to death of talking to a plank, we simply give you the TL:DR ... Do what BohnT did - make your own sorc - play it and see. It made him change his opinion on the set.
Nothing more to be said really. There's no point me pulling out real numbers again - cus you'll only ignore them.
Kind of like how you ignored everything I said. I play magscorc and I've seen all the numbers in the threads through the years and your second sentence demonstrates exactly why you're stuck in this cycle of complaining and dieing repeatedly.
If you're getting hit with SB stop shield stacking, yes healing ward is a shield! Have some health and resistance in your build and when you come across a SB user stop shield stacking, apply your hot's, cc them, and go on the offensive. If you're not stacking then SB is not hurting you, if you cc them they are not hurting you, if you're on the offensive they are not hurting you. Problem is you're all just stuck in this belief you have to play sorc the way it was 4 years ago and refuse to adapt.
Things have changed drastically since release and relying on the same thing you did 4 years ago doesn't work. Accept it, adapt, and overcome or keep complaining, but clearly that is not getting you anywhere.
Yeah you say that you play a sorc and that you made a competitive build that doesnt rely on shields yet everytime anyone tells you to share it you say nothing at all or change subject.
My gear is always changing, but my strategy has been the same and I've shared that multiple times. I do use hardened ward, but I have enough sense to keep an eye on my health bars and sound queues so I know when to stop shielding and have enough health, resistance, and hot's to carry me through long enough to burst down the squishy SB user or use LOS.
Shields or not I always keep 2 hot's going at all times on all my characters magic or stam, doing anything less in this Zerg meta is suicide. If you really want to get into gear then I've used spinners, shackle, necro, julianos, WM, chudan, etc, but none of that really matters if you're not willing to adjust your play style.
So your comptetitive build that doesnt rely on shields is light armor with two HOTs. Yeah, we either have a very different definition of competitive or you simply dont understand what rely on shields mean. If you need hardened to survive that means you are relying on it.2 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its new to me, that you give up stats or something to get the shieldbreaker 5th boni. Most stamina builds with 2h/bow play a 5/5/2 setup, where one set is complete on the bow and one on the 2h. And by wearing shieldbreaker on the bow only you sacrify actually nothing, because all other boni of SB are stamina, stamina recovery and weapon damage, very needed stats for stamina chars. Therefore you sacrify nothing to wear that no brainer on the backbar.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: ».starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Ever since oblivion damage was introduced in the form of Shieldbreaker it has been a huge controversy.
Oblivion damage was in the game at launch. The unresistable damage rune? Yeah, that was Oblivion. It's also been around as a damage type for enemy attacks, particularly mandatory wipe mechanics. Again, since launch.
The only thing Shieldbreaker did was put that on a 5pc bonus.
And since then everything went to ****. And instead of realising what a dumb idea that was and just scrap it, they keep putting more **** like that in the game. Because what can possibly go wrong when you give people multiple sources of unmitigated dmg that doesnt scale with anything.
The part where it doesn't scale with anything is actually a good thing. (Except Knight Slayer, but that's a special case.)
No, seriously.
It means that you give up some potential damage for guaranteed damage. Except, in the case of Shieldbreaker, it's not guaranteed at all, because you don't know with absolute certainty that your opponent will be using a shield. Even if you are, you'll still be dealing less damage to most targets than you will going with a different damage set.
Shieldbreaker exists because players were stacking ridiculous shields in Cyrodiil without penalty. The set was created to make that strategy much riskier... and, you know what? It works.
Knight Slayer's a similar thing. It exists to make heavy mitigation builds that just wander around and do nothing far riskier. It works too.
So, does that mean you can create and play a competitive mag Sorc build that doesn't rely on stacking shields, isn't countered by Shieldbreaker and doesn't just wander around doing nothing?
Yes.
Please elaborate on your build, then? I know you think that, but I can't discuss it without information what makes you think that way.
Nearly any sorc build that doesn't go into PvP with 10k health. That can be simply starting with 25k health, to which I can already hear the cries of, "oh, but my damage goes down," which... you know... no, your damage does not go down in comparison to if you're dead.
A sorc that goes into combat in heavy armor. "Oh, but my damage!"
But, this entire, "no, the only possible way a sorc could survive is if I'm spamming shields," is how we got Shieldbreaker in the first place. Because idiots were going into Cyrodiil with 10-12k health, and 60k shields, and scampering around being unkillable, and it wasn't entertaining. So a counter was introduced with the Imperial City to make that strategy riskier.
This thread is, literally, a complaint about how someone is throwing rocks at your glass cannon, using light attacks.
Ahh, there's nothing like a huge dose of exaggeration sprinkled with a hint of ridiculous to make your point.
If you're thinking that the whole thing about shield stacking sorcs being THE meta for Cyrodiil... that's neither, actually. Back around 1.4 or 1.5, stacking shields was the way to go for PvP. Beyond that, the 10k health/60k shields thing was accurate back then.
This resulted in unkillable sorc DPSs dominating Cyrodiil, and it was not particularly fun to deal with them, for a number of reasons.
So, this would have been late 2014, early 2015, and by summer 2015, Shieldbreaker was added specifically to reduce this kind of behavior. In some ways, silver bullets like this are a much better way to manage abusive strategies. They don't outright nerf mechanics that are needed elsewhere (shields, in this case), they don't completely prevent the strategy from being used (you can still run a shield stacking glass cannon, as evidenced by the people who still think that one trick pony, is the way to go), but you do make the entire approach much riskier.
Unless the part where someone's telling you, "no, seriously, run some heavy armor pieces to avoid dying whenever someone looks at you funny," strikes you ridiculous... in which case, I may not be able to help you there.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭P.S. Scaling with stats and amplified with CP are two entirely different things. The fact that proc sets perform way better in no CP campaigns should be enough to tell you everything you need to know about procs and scaling. I also fail to see your point with shattering blows. It has nothing to do with what i told you.
Okay, here's a novel thought. If you're dealing with a proc set, that by your definition is over-performing, and it is procced based on actions that you take, not what the player wearing the armor is doing... maybe, just, don't proc the set in the first place?1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ever since oblivion damage was introduced in the form of Shieldbreaker it has been a huge controversy.
The main problem with shieldbreaker is that it forces anyone relying on shields as a main defence to completely stop using shields as a defence when fighting someone wearing shieldbreaker as there is no non healing focused build that can get a 3.5k HPS in cyro (2075 damage per light attack /0.6s per LA)
Most stamina builds would struggle to reach such healing in a prolonged fight.
The issue is that in order to reach the full potential of shields you are forced to run light armor and don't invest as much into health as shields work as an additional health pool. Due to these build restrictions a sorc or any build focusing on active shield useage is very vulnerable to burst as soon as their shields go down or in the case of oblivion damage / shieldbreaker can't be applied at all.
This makes shieldbreaker a hardcounter vs those builds which translates into an huge issue that players with mediocre or bad skill can easily win fights against the best sorcs out there.
The PC EU sorcs know what is ment by that
The next issue with oblivion damage is that it's not affected by any offensive or defensive stats, the only way to increase oblivion damage is using a OD Glyph with infused and torugs (which is another problem)
also there is no way to reduce the incoming damage no Form of mitigation be it named buffs like major protection, resistances or other sources of mitigation can't change anything about how much damage it will deal.
This opens pandora's Box as you can deal high amounts of damage while running around with an unkillable tank build with 40k health to prevent your enemy from killing you.
My suggestions for shieldbreaker is to completely rework the set like this:
Your direct damage abilities deal 20% more damage to damage shields and blocking targets
With this change you still get a huge bonus while fighting against players using damage shields while also making the set useable in more situations and versus more builds.
About oblivion damage glyphs and infused torugs pact, the game has to be strict and keep it in line that oblivion damage cannot be increased but also cannont be decreased by anything.
For people saying you can easily heal through shieldbreaker, you can't as shields work out differently than players who haven't used those builds think they do.
Imagine you run around with your stamina build and everytime you get hit by a LA your max health is reduced by ~10% which is cumultative abd you can only get back some of your max health if you get healing when you heal while being at 100% health (to simulate the low healing of viable shield focused)I please the Forum mods to remove any posts like this as they only derail the post:
Shieldbreaker is fine. (No explanation)
L2P. (No constructive feedback)
Sorc is already weak. (False information based on lack of skill/ experience)
You can't kill X without shieldbreaker. (False information based on lack of experience)
See bold. Your're using your own subjective assessment of players' skills to argue for changing Shield Breaker. I suggest narrowing the argument to remove subjective reasoning that relies on your personal assessment of other players.1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: ».starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Ever since oblivion damage was introduced in the form of Shieldbreaker it has been a huge controversy.
Oblivion damage was in the game at launch. The unresistable damage rune? Yeah, that was Oblivion. It's also been around as a damage type for enemy attacks, particularly mandatory wipe mechanics. Again, since launch.
The only thing Shieldbreaker did was put that on a 5pc bonus.
And since then everything went to ****. And instead of realising what a dumb idea that was and just scrap it, they keep putting more **** like that in the game. Because what can possibly go wrong when you give people multiple sources of unmitigated dmg that doesnt scale with anything.
The part where it doesn't scale with anything is actually a good thing. (Except Knight Slayer, but that's a special case.)
No, seriously.
It means that you give up some potential damage for guaranteed damage. Except, in the case of Shieldbreaker, it's not guaranteed at all, because you don't know with absolute certainty that your opponent will be using a shield. Even if you are, you'll still be dealing less damage to most targets than you will going with a different damage set.
Shieldbreaker exists because players were stacking ridiculous shields in Cyrodiil without penalty. The set was created to make that strategy much riskier... and, you know what? It works.
Knight Slayer's a similar thing. It exists to make heavy mitigation builds that just wander around and do nothing far riskier. It works too.
So, does that mean you can create and play a competitive mag Sorc build that doesn't rely on stacking shields, isn't countered by Shieldbreaker and doesn't just wander around doing nothing?
Yes.
Please elaborate on your build, then? I know you think that, but I can't discuss it without information what makes you think that way.
Nearly any sorc build that doesn't go into PvP with 10k health. That can be simply starting with 25k health, to which I can already hear the cries of, "oh, but my damage goes down," which... you know... no, your damage does not go down in comparison to if you're dead.
A sorc that goes into combat in heavy armor. "Oh, but my damage!"
But, this entire, "no, the only possible way a sorc could survive is if I'm spamming shields," is how we got Shieldbreaker in the first place. Because idiots were going into Cyrodiil with 10-12k health, and 60k shields, and scampering around being unkillable, and it wasn't entertaining. So a counter was introduced with the Imperial City to make that strategy riskier.
This thread is, literally, a complaint about how someone is throwing rocks at your glass cannon, using light attacks.
Ahh, there's nothing like a huge dose of exaggeration sprinkled with a hint of ridiculous to make your point.
If you're thinking that the whole thing about shield stacking sorcs being THE meta for Cyrodiil... that's neither, actually. Back around 1.4 or 1.5, stacking shields was the way to go for PvP. Beyond that, the 10k health/60k shields thing was accurate back then.
This resulted in unkillable sorc DPSs dominating Cyrodiil, and it was not particularly fun to deal with them, for a number of reasons.
So, this would have been late 2014, early 2015, and by summer 2015, Shieldbreaker was added specifically to reduce this kind of behavior. In some ways, silver bullets like this are a much better way to manage abusive strategies. They don't outright nerf mechanics that are needed elsewhere (shields, in this case), they don't completely prevent the strategy from being used (you can still run a shield stacking glass cannon, as evidenced by the people who still think that one trick pony, is the way to go), but you do make the entire approach much riskier.
Unless the part where someone's telling you, "no, seriously, run some heavy armor pieces to avoid dying whenever someone looks at you funny," strikes you ridiculous... in which case, I may not be able to help you there.
Look, you obviously don't remember the time you are talking about very well, so, maybe, don't base your argument on it?starkerealm wrote: »P.S. Scaling with stats and amplified with CP are two entirely different things. The fact that proc sets perform way better in no CP campaigns should be enough to tell you everything you need to know about procs and scaling. I also fail to see your point with shattering blows. It has nothing to do with what i told you.
Okay, here's a novel thought. If you're dealing with a proc set, that by your definition is over-performing, and it is procced based on actions that you take, not what the player wearing the armor is doing... maybe, just, don't proc the set in the first place?
That gets you killed against any skilled player or when outnumbered.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »P.S. Scaling with stats and amplified with CP are two entirely different things. The fact that proc sets perform way better in no CP campaigns should be enough to tell you everything you need to know about procs and scaling. I also fail to see your point with shattering blows. It has nothing to do with what i told you.
Okay, here's a novel thought. If you're dealing with a proc set, that by your definition is over-performing, and it is procced based on actions that you take, not what the player wearing the armor is doing... maybe, just, don't proc the set in the first place?
Hmm, ok.. So you start a fight, have no idea sb is involved, shield up, and take 30k damage by the time your shield wears off....
This is actually half of the problem with it. Not knowing if it will be involved in the fight and also not knowing who the user is.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Ever since oblivion damage was introduced in the form of Shieldbreaker it has been a huge controversy.
The main problem with shieldbreaker is that it forces anyone relying on shields as a main defence to completely stop using shields as a defence when fighting someone wearing shieldbreaker as there is no non healing focused build that can get a 3.5k HPS in cyro (2075 damage per light attack /0.6s per LA)
Most stamina builds would struggle to reach such healing in a prolonged fight.
The issue is that in order to reach the full potential of shields you are forced to run light armor and don't invest as much into health as shields work as an additional health pool. Due to these build restrictions a sorc or any build focusing on active shield useage is very vulnerable to burst as soon as their shields go down or in the case of oblivion damage / shieldbreaker can't be applied at all.
This makes shieldbreaker a hardcounter vs those builds which translates into an huge issue that players with mediocre or bad skill can easily win fights against the best sorcs out there.
The PC EU sorcs know what is ment by that
The next issue with oblivion damage is that it's not affected by any offensive or defensive stats, the only way to increase oblivion damage is using a OD Glyph with infused and torugs (which is another problem)
also there is no way to reduce the incoming damage no Form of mitigation be it named buffs like major protection, resistances or other sources of mitigation can't change anything about how much damage it will deal.
This opens pandora's Box as you can deal high amounts of damage while running around with an unkillable tank build with 40k health to prevent your enemy from killing you.
My suggestions for shieldbreaker is to completely rework the set like this:
Your direct damage abilities deal 20% more damage to damage shields and blocking targets
With this change you still get a huge bonus while fighting against players using damage shields while also making the set useable in more situations and versus more builds.
About oblivion damage glyphs and infused torugs pact, the game has to be strict and keep it in line that oblivion damage cannot be increased but also cannont be decreased by anything.
For people saying you can easily heal through shieldbreaker, you can't as shields work out differently than players who haven't used those builds think they do.
Imagine you run around with your stamina build and everytime you get hit by a LA your max health is reduced by ~10% which is cumultative abd you can only get back some of your max health if you get healing when you heal while being at 100% health (to simulate the low healing of viable shield focused)I please the Forum mods to remove any posts like this as they only derail the post:
Shieldbreaker is fine. (No explanation)
L2P. (No constructive feedback)
Sorc is already weak. (False information based on lack of skill/ experience)
You can't kill X without shieldbreaker. (False information based on lack of experience)
See bold. Your're using your own subjective assessment of players' skills to argue for changing Shield Breaker. I suggest narrowing the argument to remove subjective reasoning that relies on your personal assessment of other players.
I do like the implication that the "best player on PCEU," is mindlessly shieldstacking, as opposed to actually learning to play their class.
Also the implication that the "worst player" on PCEU is running a very narrowly tailored Tel Var set. I mean, on PCNA, I'm used to seeing stam players hitting the sewers with 10k-12k health, and then getting salty when they catch fire and burn. But, the floor must be way higher on PCEU... or there may be some hyperbole involved.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »P.S. Scaling with stats and amplified with CP are two entirely different things. The fact that proc sets perform way better in no CP campaigns should be enough to tell you everything you need to know about procs and scaling. I also fail to see your point with shattering blows. It has nothing to do with what i told you.
Okay, here's a novel thought. If you're dealing with a proc set, that by your definition is over-performing, and it is procced based on actions that you take, not what the player wearing the armor is doing... maybe, just, don't proc the set in the first place?
Hmm, ok.. So you start a fight, have no idea sb is involved, shield up, and take 30k damage by the time your shield wears off....
This is actually half of the problem with it. Not knowing if it will be involved in the fight and also not knowing who the user is.
Or, don't rely on shields as your first recourse to artificially inflate your health to garbage tank levels on a glass cannon... before you know what you're walking into... just a thought.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Who said anything about shield stacking even? I do use it, but along with several other defensive mechanics. And quite successfully, too, I might add.starkerealm wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Ever since oblivion damage was introduced in the form of Shieldbreaker it has been a huge controversy.
The main problem with shieldbreaker is that it forces anyone relying on shields as a main defence to completely stop using shields as a defence when fighting someone wearing shieldbreaker as there is no non healing focused build that can get a 3.5k HPS in cyro (2075 damage per light attack /0.6s per LA)
Most stamina builds would struggle to reach such healing in a prolonged fight.
The issue is that in order to reach the full potential of shields you are forced to run light armor and don't invest as much into health as shields work as an additional health pool. Due to these build restrictions a sorc or any build focusing on active shield useage is very vulnerable to burst as soon as their shields go down or in the case of oblivion damage / shieldbreaker can't be applied at all.
This makes shieldbreaker a hardcounter vs those builds which translates into an huge issue that players with mediocre or bad skill can easily win fights against the best sorcs out there.
The PC EU sorcs know what is ment by that
The next issue with oblivion damage is that it's not affected by any offensive or defensive stats, the only way to increase oblivion damage is using a OD Glyph with infused and torugs (which is another problem)
also there is no way to reduce the incoming damage no Form of mitigation be it named buffs like major protection, resistances or other sources of mitigation can't change anything about how much damage it will deal.
This opens pandora's Box as you can deal high amounts of damage while running around with an unkillable tank build with 40k health to prevent your enemy from killing you.
My suggestions for shieldbreaker is to completely rework the set like this:
Your direct damage abilities deal 20% more damage to damage shields and blocking targets
With this change you still get a huge bonus while fighting against players using damage shields while also making the set useable in more situations and versus more builds.
About oblivion damage glyphs and infused torugs pact, the game has to be strict and keep it in line that oblivion damage cannot be increased but also cannont be decreased by anything.
For people saying you can easily heal through shieldbreaker, you can't as shields work out differently than players who haven't used those builds think they do.
Imagine you run around with your stamina build and everytime you get hit by a LA your max health is reduced by ~10% which is cumultative abd you can only get back some of your max health if you get healing when you heal while being at 100% health (to simulate the low healing of viable shield focused)I please the Forum mods to remove any posts like this as they only derail the post:
Shieldbreaker is fine. (No explanation)
L2P. (No constructive feedback)
Sorc is already weak. (False information based on lack of skill/ experience)
You can't kill X without shieldbreaker. (False information based on lack of experience)
See bold. Your're using your own subjective assessment of players' skills to argue for changing Shield Breaker. I suggest narrowing the argument to remove subjective reasoning that relies on your personal assessment of other players.
I do like the implication that the "best player on PCEU," is mindlessly shieldstacking, as opposed to actually learning to play their class.
Also the implication that the "worst player" on PCEU is running a very narrowly tailored Tel Var set. I mean, on PCNA, I'm used to seeing stam players hitting the sewers with 10k-12k health, and then getting salty when they catch fire and burn. But, the floor must be way higher on PCEU... or there may be some hyperbole involved.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Who said anything about shield stacking even? I do use it, but along with several other defensive mechanics. And quite successfully, too, I might add.
The person complaining about how their shield build is hard countered by a set that was designed to shift the meta away from mindlessly shield stacking on sorcs. So, you know, not you.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Also the implication that the "worst player" on PCEU is running a very narrowly tailored Tel Var set. I mean, on PCNA, I'm used to seeing stam players hitting the sewers with 10k-12k health, and then getting salty when they catch fire and burn. But, the floor must be way higher on PCEU... or there may be some hyperbole involved.
So, you're saying you haven't seen fragile as **** builds in Cyrodiil and the Sewers? Or, just that you feel it's hyperbole. Because I do see those guys from time to time. Not, you know, the norm, but often enough to notice, "oh, hey, there's a new guy with no food active, no points in health, running a pure PvE, stam DPS build."
You've never seen that on PCNA?0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Who said anything about shield stacking even? I do use it, but along with several other defensive mechanics. And quite successfully, too, I might add.
The person complaining about how their shield build is hard countered by a set that was designed to shift the meta away from mindlessly shield stacking on sorcs. So, you know, not you.
I'm not mindlessly stacking shields, but my build is hardcountered anyway. That's what this thread is about.starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Also the implication that the "worst player" on PCEU is running a very narrowly tailored Tel Var set. I mean, on PCNA, I'm used to seeing stam players hitting the sewers with 10k-12k health, and then getting salty when they catch fire and burn. But, the floor must be way higher on PCEU... or there may be some hyperbole involved.
So, you're saying you haven't seen fragile as **** builds in Cyrodiil and the Sewers? Or, just that you feel it's hyperbole. Because I do see those guys from time to time. Not, you know, the norm, but often enough to notice, "oh, hey, there's a new guy with no food active, no points in health, running a pure PvE, stam DPS build."
You've never seen that on PCNA?
You are claiming people enter the Sewers with 10k-12k health. I'm saying it's hyperbole because it's not possible.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Who said anything about shield stacking even? I do use it, but along with several other defensive mechanics. And quite successfully, too, I might add.
The person complaining about how their shield build is hard countered by a set that was designed to shift the meta away from mindlessly shield stacking on sorcs. So, you know, not you.
I'm not mindlessly stacking shields, but my build is hardcountered anyway. That's what this thread is about.
And, when Shield Breaker was added to the game, that build was something that desperately needed a hard counter. Take it away, and we'd be (mostly) back where we were three years ago on that subject.starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Also the implication that the "worst player" on PCEU is running a very narrowly tailored Tel Var set. I mean, on PCNA, I'm used to seeing stam players hitting the sewers with 10k-12k health, and then getting salty when they catch fire and burn. But, the floor must be way higher on PCEU... or there may be some hyperbole involved.
So, you're saying you haven't seen fragile as **** builds in Cyrodiil and the Sewers? Or, just that you feel it's hyperbole. Because I do see those guys from time to time. Not, you know, the norm, but often enough to notice, "oh, hey, there's a new guy with no food active, no points in health, running a pure PvE, stam DPS build."
You've never seen that on PCNA?
You are claiming people enter the Sewers with 10k-12k health. I'm saying it's hyperbole because it's not possible.
Do you really want me to log in and give you the exact value, after appropriate campaign buffs are applied?0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Who said anything about shield stacking even? I do use it, but along with several other defensive mechanics. And quite successfully, too, I might add.
The person complaining about how their shield build is hard countered by a set that was designed to shift the meta away from mindlessly shield stacking on sorcs. So, you know, not you.
I'm not mindlessly stacking shields, but my build is hardcountered anyway. That's what this thread is about.
And, when Shield Breaker was added to the game, that build was something that desperately needed a hard counter. Take it away, and we'd be (mostly) back where we were three years ago on that subject.starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Also the implication that the "worst player" on PCEU is running a very narrowly tailored Tel Var set. I mean, on PCNA, I'm used to seeing stam players hitting the sewers with 10k-12k health, and then getting salty when they catch fire and burn. But, the floor must be way higher on PCEU... or there may be some hyperbole involved.
So, you're saying you haven't seen fragile as **** builds in Cyrodiil and the Sewers? Or, just that you feel it's hyperbole. Because I do see those guys from time to time. Not, you know, the norm, but often enough to notice, "oh, hey, there's a new guy with no food active, no points in health, running a pure PvE, stam DPS build."
You've never seen that on PCNA?
You are claiming people enter the Sewers with 10k-12k health. I'm saying it's hyperbole because it's not possible.
Do you really want me to log in and give you the exact value, after appropriate campaign buffs are applied?
With no health food, health set bonuses or skillpoints, and only a couple of tri-stat glyphs, health in cyro is almost 18k.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Who said anything about shield stacking even? I do use it, but along with several other defensive mechanics. And quite successfully, too, I might add.
The person complaining about how their shield build is hard countered by a set that was designed to shift the meta away from mindlessly shield stacking on sorcs. So, you know, not you.
I'm not mindlessly stacking shields, but my build is hardcountered anyway. That's what this thread is about.
And, when Shield Breaker was added to the game, that build was something that desperately needed a hard counter. Take it away, and we'd be (mostly) back where we were three years ago on that subject.starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Also the implication that the "worst player" on PCEU is running a very narrowly tailored Tel Var set. I mean, on PCNA, I'm used to seeing stam players hitting the sewers with 10k-12k health, and then getting salty when they catch fire and burn. But, the floor must be way higher on PCEU... or there may be some hyperbole involved.
So, you're saying you haven't seen fragile as **** builds in Cyrodiil and the Sewers? Or, just that you feel it's hyperbole. Because I do see those guys from time to time. Not, you know, the norm, but often enough to notice, "oh, hey, there's a new guy with no food active, no points in health, running a pure PvE, stam DPS build."
You've never seen that on PCNA?
You are claiming people enter the Sewers with 10k-12k health. I'm saying it's hyperbole because it's not possible.
Do you really want me to log in and give you the exact value, after appropriate campaign buffs are applied?
- No, we didn't need it then, we most certainly didn't need it after the update it was introduced with and today it's just a bad joke.
- You are trying to call out people on hyperbole all the while making widely inaccurate statements yourself. You don't have to tell me how much health people run, you need to make fact based arguments if you want your opinion to be taken seriously.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »P.S. Scaling with stats and amplified with CP are two entirely different things. The fact that proc sets perform way better in no CP campaigns should be enough to tell you everything you need to know about procs and scaling. I also fail to see your point with shattering blows. It has nothing to do with what i told you.
Okay, here's a novel thought. If you're dealing with a proc set, that by your definition is over-performing, and it is procced based on actions that you take, not what the player wearing the armor is doing... maybe, just, don't proc the set in the first place?
Hmm, ok.. So you start a fight, have no idea sb is involved, shield up, and take 30k damage by the time your shield wears off....
This is actually half of the problem with it. Not knowing if it will be involved in the fight and also not knowing who the user is.
Or, don't rely on shields as your first recourse to artificially inflate your health to garbage tank levels on a glass cannon... before you know what you're walking into... just a thought.
Riight... I can guarantee you that will result in a LOT more deaths. You're simply spewing shield-hating bile. I think I've spotted the shieldbreaker user!
I see you're also the kind of blinkered person who thinks all sorcs should be glass cannons... Well is probably about time you learned that they are not that cannony and also not glass... Kind of like pretty much every other PvP setup, no matter the class. You just can't handle the idea that somebody wearing a dress can be hard to kill.
Well, that isn't this game.Edited by Biro123 on April 25, 2018 9:14PMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, we didn't need it then, we most certainly didn't need it after the update it was introduced with and today it's just a bad joke.
Given how many people were running cookie cutter shield builds at the time... yeah, we kinda did.You are trying to call out people on hyperbole all the while making widely inaccurate statements yourself. You don't have to tell me how much health people run, you need to make fact based arguments if you want your opinion to be taken seriously.
...and here we are with a thread, with posters crying about how they can't simply shield up to turn on god mode in PvP. Yeah... I think we still kinda need it.
That's not hyperbole. That is exactly what this thread is about. People crying because they can't 1vX simply for being a sorc.
EDIT: Oh, right, and that giving up a 5pc bonus on your PvP build is, "free." Right.Edited by starkerealm on April 25, 2018 9:19PM2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »No, we didn't need it then, we most certainly didn't need it after the update it was introduced with and today it's just a bad joke.
Given how many people were running cookie cutter shield builds at the time... yeah, we kinda did.You are trying to call out people on hyperbole all the while making widely inaccurate statements yourself. You don't have to tell me how much health people run, you need to make fact based arguments if you want your opinion to be taken seriously.
...and here we are with a thread, with posters crying about how they can't simply shield up to turn on god mode in PvP. Yeah... I think we still kinda need it.
That's not hyperbole. That is exactly what this thread is about. People crying because they can't 1vX simply for being a sorc.
EDIT: Oh, right, and that giving up a 5pc bonus on your PvP build is, "free." Right.
It becomes increasingly obvious you have some kind of anti-magsorc bias. I'm not sure why, considering you claim to play one competitively yourself (not that I'd believe that).
Regardless, I can 1vX simply for being a good player. This thread is about an imbalanced set, and you are doing an awful job trying to defend it right now.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For those who, honestly, don't understand how Shieldbreaker works, let me explain what the set does. It's really kind of interesting because this is a set that has it's primary effect even if you do not own a single piece of it.
If Shieldbreaker didn't exist, you could take a sorc (or Templar, or DK, though Sorcs do it best) and stack up your shields, to create a significant amount of artificial health in PvP. The exact values vary based on a lot of build factors, but you can create a substantial buffer that is very difficult to burn through. There's no question, no risk, just, "do this and reap the rewards."
Now, it's not completely skill-less. But it is very simple, and can be retrofitted onto most light armor builds, resulting in survivability that is, frankly, absurd with some practice. With virtually no downside.
What Shieldbreaker does is introduce an element of risk to that approach. You can still make a LA build incredibly durable, but, if someone else has taken the time, and put in the effort, to collect this set, then it will blow through your defenses.
In a practical sense, if you encounter Shieldbreaker, and you're relying on your shields as your only real defense, you're hosed. (If you're using other methods to buff your defenses, including self heals, or increased base health, then Shieldbreaker starts to become a lot less appealing. Particularly if you're only using shields situationally, instead as a panacea against all incoming damage.
It forces you to change how you approach PvP, because it exists, not because someone's wearing it. You can ignore the threat and plow ahead, but that invites people to step back and change a major portion of their build specifically to counter you.
As to actually equipping Shieldbreaker, this is something you never want to do unless you know you're facing opponents who are abusing shields. If they're not, you have wasted a 5pc set bonus. Remember, you only get, at most, 2 of those on a character. In practical terms, you're giving up half your gear build to deal with one player. (Or a collection of fools.)
So, maybe, actually let the set do it's job, and avoid spamming shields at all times. Save them for when you actually need the bonus health. Or just slot barrier, and get every one of your nearby allies to hate you... that's an option too, I guess.3 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »For those who, honestly, don't understand how Shieldbreaker works, let me explain what the set does. It's really kind of interesting because this is a set that has it's primary effect even if you do not own a single piece of it.
If Shieldbreaker didn't exist, you could take a sorc (or Templar, or DK, though Sorcs do it best) and stack up your shields, to create a significant amount of artificial health in PvP. The exact values vary based on a lot of build factors, but you can create a substantial buffer that is very difficult to burn through. There's no question, no risk, just, "do this and reap the rewards."
Now, it's not completely skill-less. But it is very simple, and can be retrofitted onto most light armor builds, resulting in survivability that is, frankly, absurd with some practice. With virtually no downside.
What Shieldbreaker does is introduce an element of risk to that approach. You can still make a LA build incredibly durable, but, if someone else has taken the time, and put in the effort, to collect this set, then it will blow through your defenses.
In a practical sense, if you encounter Shieldbreaker, and you're relying on your shields as your only real defense, you're hosed. (If you're using other methods to buff your defenses, including self heals, or increased base health, then Shieldbreaker starts to become a lot less appealing. Particularly if you're only using shields situationally, instead as a panacea against all incoming damage.
It forces you to change how you approach PvP, because it exists, not because someone's wearing it. You can ignore the threat and plow ahead, but that invites people to step back and change a major portion of their build specifically to counter you.
As to actually equipping Shieldbreaker, this is something you never want to do unless you know you're facing opponents who are abusing shields. If they're not, you have wasted a 5pc set bonus. Remember, you only get, at most, 2 of those on a character. In practical terms, you're giving up half your gear build to deal with one player. (Or a collection of fools.)
So, maybe, actually let the set do it's job, and avoid spamming shields at all times. Save them for when you actually need the bonus health. Or just slot barrier, and get every one of your nearby allies to hate you... that's an option too, I guess.
This set is not dependent on the target relying only on shields as their defense. It ignores half the defensive mechanisms you could use completely while investing into the other half enough to deal with the sets turns your build non-competitive.
Stop creating strawmen, ffs. Use numbers and concrete examples if you want to make an argument.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The thread is highly entertaining. Like every topic that involves Sorcs it doesn’t fail to deliver on the hilarious end of the spectrum. I won’t enter that discussion, because frankly, been there, done that. You simply won’t convince anyone who has “shields OP” as one of his most firm beliefs that SB is a bad idea. You can give all the numbers you want, point out the shortcomings of all the available HoTs, the ability to be abused in Xv1 scenarios specifically, and the fact you can run it on your bow bar only - you’ll just get done ridiculous answers that boil down to play a tank in HA.
What I find so amusing:
People on here always claim how easy it is to counter and that you’re just a scrub if you can’t. It’s almost like the set needed buffs if you read the answers. Yet the dichotomy how it gets defended in full force mode is a striking one. You’d expect that a set that is easy to counter is no loss if it gets ditched. That people angrily defend the set instead is the biggest proof it’s a problematic set - otherwise it wouldn’t be so.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭So a pointless video and go make a sorc is the best arguement you can all come up with! Maybe that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet is because SB does not prevent you from using any of the working counters above, but your all just stuck on repeat and refuse to adapt.
Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? Lol so keep shield stacking and crying for nerfs and see how that works out for you. I guess I'm not a top level sorc since I don't die to SB.
No its no the best argument.
All of us here have given good valid arguments with numbers, real in-game examples of the numbers that mutagen, healing ward, surge etc. pulls when compared to shieldbreaker and the unviability of builds that CAN handle shieldbreaker vs everybody else.
We've given them time and time again over months and months - to the same people time and time again - people who have never, ever played magsorc in PVP without dedicated healers. People who refuse to listen time and time again to those who HAVE played the class - a lot - and know what they are talking about.
We've given them until we're blue in the face and so sick to death of talking to a plank, we simply give you the TL:DR ... Do what BohnT did - make your own sorc - play it and see. It made him change his opinion on the set.
Nothing more to be said really. There's no point me pulling out real numbers again - cus you'll only ignore them.
I have a MagSorc and I can say with 21k health, a defensive set and good self heals up can win against SB. All the top Sorc builds are glass canon builds with Ward as your main defense. If you seen a MagBlade with cloak as it’s main defense and they made a post about Mage light and detect pots you would have the same argument. You can’t be rewarded for pure max stats at every turn there needs to be a trade off without SB you don’t need the extra health or impen you can rock all divine and 50k magic.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »So a pointless video and go make a sorc is the best arguement you can all come up with! Maybe that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet is because SB does not prevent you from using any of the working counters above, but your all just stuck on repeat and refuse to adapt.
Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? Lol so keep shield stacking and crying for nerfs and see how that works out for you. I guess I'm not a top level sorc since I don't die to SB.
No its no the best argument.
All of us here have given good valid arguments with numbers, real in-game examples of the numbers that mutagen, healing ward, surge etc. pulls when compared to shieldbreaker and the unviability of builds that CAN handle shieldbreaker vs everybody else.
We've given them time and time again over months and months - to the same people time and time again - people who have never, ever played magsorc in PVP without dedicated healers. People who refuse to listen time and time again to those who HAVE played the class - a lot - and know what they are talking about.
We've given them until we're blue in the face and so sick to death of talking to a plank, we simply give you the TL:DR ... Do what BohnT did - make your own sorc - play it and see. It made him change his opinion on the set.
Nothing more to be said really. There's no point me pulling out real numbers again - cus you'll only ignore them.
I have a MagSorc and I can say with 21k health, a defensive set and good self heals up can win against SB. All the top Sorc builds are glass canon builds with Ward as your main defense. If you seen a MagBlade with cloak as it’s main defense and they made a post about Mage light and detect pots you would have the same argument. You can’t be rewarded for pure max stats at every turn there needs to be a trade off without SB you don’t need the extra health or impen you can rock all divine and 50k magic.
There are enough posts about how bad cloak is and how easy you can counter cloak...0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »So a pointless video and go make a sorc is the best arguement you can all come up with! Maybe that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet is because SB does not prevent you from using any of the working counters above, but your all just stuck on repeat and refuse to adapt.
Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? Lol so keep shield stacking and crying for nerfs and see how that works out for you. I guess I'm not a top level sorc since I don't die to SB.
No its no the best argument.
All of us here have given good valid arguments with numbers, real in-game examples of the numbers that mutagen, healing ward, surge etc. pulls when compared to shieldbreaker and the unviability of builds that CAN handle shieldbreaker vs everybody else.
We've given them time and time again over months and months - to the same people time and time again - people who have never, ever played magsorc in PVP without dedicated healers. People who refuse to listen time and time again to those who HAVE played the class - a lot - and know what they are talking about.
We've given them until we're blue in the face and so sick to death of talking to a plank, we simply give you the TL:DR ... Do what BohnT did - make your own sorc - play it and see. It made him change his opinion on the set.
Nothing more to be said really. There's no point me pulling out real numbers again - cus you'll only ignore them.
I have a MagSorc and I can say with 21k health, a defensive set and good self heals up can win against SB. All the top Sorc builds are glass canon builds with Ward as your main defense. If you seen a MagBlade with cloak as it’s main defense and they made a post about Mage light and detect pots you would have the same argument. You can’t be rewarded for pure max stats at every turn there needs to be a trade off without SB you don’t need the extra health or impen you can rock all divine and 50k magic.
There are enough posts about how bad cloak is and how easy you can counter cloak...
The key difference. and its huge.. is that magblade comes with cloak and shield (harness/dampen/healing). And class-based hots - just by light attacking or using the main spammable. That's easy access to 3 different defensive mechanisms.
Defile? Got cloak and shield.
Marked? Got shield and hots
ShieldBreakered? Got cloak and hots..
Magsorc gets shield - and, you guessed it - shield.
Yes, hots can be added - but they take up extra slots rather than being part of the offensive toolkit and so come with a cost - they are also not reliable in terms of who they heal, and not enough alone.
So one thing - Shieldbreaker royally screws up much more of a sorcs defence than any one of the above do to magblade.
Edited by Biro123 on April 26, 2018 9:24AMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »So a pointless video and go make a sorc is the best arguement you can all come up with! Maybe that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet is because SB does not prevent you from using any of the working counters above, but your all just stuck on repeat and refuse to adapt.
Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? Lol so keep shield stacking and crying for nerfs and see how that works out for you. I guess I'm not a top level sorc since I don't die to SB.
No its no the best argument.
All of us here have given good valid arguments with numbers, real in-game examples of the numbers that mutagen, healing ward, surge etc. pulls when compared to shieldbreaker and the unviability of builds that CAN handle shieldbreaker vs everybody else.
We've given them time and time again over months and months - to the same people time and time again - people who have never, ever played magsorc in PVP without dedicated healers. People who refuse to listen time and time again to those who HAVE played the class - a lot - and know what they are talking about.
We've given them until we're blue in the face and so sick to death of talking to a plank, we simply give you the TL:DR ... Do what BohnT did - make your own sorc - play it and see. It made him change his opinion on the set.
Nothing more to be said really. There's no point me pulling out real numbers again - cus you'll only ignore them.
I have a MagSorc and I can say with 21k health, a defensive set and good self heals up can win against SB. All the top Sorc builds are glass canon builds with Ward as your main defense. If you seen a MagBlade with cloak as it’s main defense and they made a post about Mage light and detect pots you would have the same argument. You can’t be rewarded for pure max stats at every turn there needs to be a trade off without SB you don’t need the extra health or impen you can rock all divine and 50k magic.
There are enough posts about how bad cloak is and how easy you can counter cloak...
The key difference. and its huge.. is that magblade comes with cloak and shield (harness/dampen/healing). And class-based hots - just by light attacking or using the main spammable. That's easy access to 3 different defensive mechanisms.
Defile? Got cloak and shield.
Marked? Got shield and hots
ShieldBreakered? Got cloak and hots..
Magsorc gets shield - and, you guessed it - shield.
Yes, hots can be added - but they take up extra slots rather than being part of the offensive toolkit and so come with a cost - they are also not reliable in terms of who they heal, and not enough alone.
So one thing - Shieldbreaker royally screws up much more of a sorcs defence than any one of the above do to magblade.
Yet magnb get wrecked just as much by shieldbreaker in some cases even more. There is simply no way for any class utilising shields reaching 3.5k hps or for any class in a real fight atm.
This set needs to be looked at and needs to be balanced.
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