Shieldbreaker and oblivion damage in general

ak_pvp · April 2018

Shieldbreaker is OP. Oblivion is a little less so, its strong against everything, but weak as a basic attack and requires a lot more investment, to the point you will be quite weak elsewhere.

Both Xv1 ***, so nerf em for all I care.

Maulkin · April 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

every day these same guys makes new nerf threads that very few people agree with and they try to keep these threads on the top by spamming back and forth bickering in them, to make the thread stay on the top of the list. we shouldnt have to defend the same topics every single day from the same people who spamm these same threads daily.
it is very boring, and is getting really old.
please stop making these kinds of nerf threads.

this ^

BohnT wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this thread again?
shield spamming sorcerers are simply overpowered and unkillable tanks, this set was made to balance that out and isn't even that strong and takes a long time because it is infact only light attacks that are being used and it takes a long time to light attack shield spam sorc to death and many times the sorc kills you while trying to kill them, if anything the damage should be buffed.

sorcerers right now just as allways since shield breaker was made ARE killing people that wear shield breaker set.
right now in cryodiil you will find sorcerers killing people with shield breaker set just as often as sorcerers dying to people wearing the shield breaker set.

the set was made to balance out shield spamming sorcs
i fought a sorc last night that was not using shields as his main defence and he did just fine, it was a normal fight. the only thing this shield breaker set does is light attack slowly and takes forever but eventually brings down those stacked shields, just like it is suppose to do. it is only light attacks, and if you keep shield spamming and not fighting then the set works as intended.

right now just as allways if sorcs shield stack their pretty much unkillable unless you have a zerg, so the devs made this set to counter that, and it works properly and is balanced, it is not new and has been around for a few years, so its not like this was a new concept that wasnt thought out, it is thought out well and works like it is suppose to, everything is the same as it was when the shield breaker set was made, and we dont have any way of killing shield stacking sorcerers without it.

every day these same guys makes new nerf threads that very few people agree with and they try to keep these threads on the top by spamming back and forth bickering in them, to make the thread stay on the top of the list. we shouldnt have to defend the same topics every single day from the same people who spamm these same threads daily.
it is very boring, and is getting really old.
please stop making these kinds of nerf threads.

Why don't you reroll a sorc then if it's so strong just play them if they are so overperfoming compared to your stamnb.

i will make a new char on PC NA and i will duel you with my 400+ latency with shieldbreaker, should be easy for you to win that fight right?

Sshhh, no counter-arguments now. Only dreams.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Shield Breaker is balanced. I have a stamina and magic DPS of all classes as well as a tank/tanky build for all classes. Is it strong vs a shield hell yes no question about it. But that’s the point it should be shields are very strong even with the short timer. No crit or secondary effects shields are very strong. If you build with just a little bit of health and two pieces of heavy does a lot.

Shield breaker is only strong if shields are you sole defense. Low heath, resistance and or stamina is normal for most magic builds.

What a load of crap. To counter it you need HoTs, possibly a non-shield based burst heal and pets also help (as well as giving you that heal).
Max health, stamina and resistances slightly increase the time you have to burst down the Shieldbreaker user without shields up.

Maulkin wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Shield Breaker is balanced. I have a stamina and magic DPS of all classes as well as a tank/tanky build for all classes. Is it strong vs a shield hell yes no question about it. But that’s the point it should be shields are very strong even with the short timer. No crit or secondary effects shields are very strong. If you build with just a little bit of health and two pieces of heavy does a lot.

Shield breaker is only strong if shields are you sole defense. Low heath, resistance and or stamina is normal for most magic builds.

What does shield breaker, which deals unmitigated oblivion damage, have to do with 2 heavy pieces, resistances and your HP pool? Holy crap, this nonsense.

I love how people that presumably hardly ever play MagSorc, tell you to build a tanky build that counters shield breaker. As if 4 years of game history and countless people trying and failing, is not an an indication that you can't build a competitive heavy armour MagSorc that does not rely on wards.

Newsflash: the class is not MagBlade or MagDK, it has has no fecking HoTs or spammables

But I'm sure Mr. @kendellking_chaosb14_ESO is the first one to have managed it and he's about to share a video any minute now of his godly self wrecking anyone and everyone (incl. shield-breaker users) with his mighty tanky sorc in 2-piece heavy.

I'll wait.

I really hate magic builds like you guys you complain that you die without a shield yet when told to make the wild sacrifice of a 5-2 build over a 5-1-1 it’s like that will not going to help (you just want the higher magic) and when told that more health would keep you alive it’s nope nope not going to try. Shield breaker only deals damage to shields. Pop Mutagen and literally any heal you want burst or HoT heal + Mutagen, CC then however your class CCs and fight without a shield.

A load of crap is someone thinking that a defense with all of 2 counters is so weak because they they have low health without that’s not the shields fault if you less then 21k in PvP you will die just how it is. I see way too many mages with 15-16k health like they have not one bonus to health that’s your fault you died.

If you build for all damage and you don’t slot not one defense set or bonus it’s your fault you dies you’re a glass canon and glass canons don’t get to complain when they die. All my magic builds have Bastion of The Heartland on. Cuts my DPS and max magic, I take a whole 5 more seconds to kill someone but when my shield drops or I get CCed it’s not game over.

pieratsos · April 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ever since oblivion damage was introduced in the form of Shieldbreaker it has been a huge controversy.

Oblivion damage was in the game at launch. The unresistable damage rune? Yeah, that was Oblivion. It's also been around as a damage type for enemy attacks, particularly mandatory wipe mechanics. Again, since launch.

The only thing Shieldbreaker did was put that on a 5pc bonus.

And since then everything went to ****. And instead of realising what a dumb idea that was and just scrap it, they keep putting more **** like that in the game. Because what can possibly go wrong when you give people multiple sources of unmitigated dmg that doesnt scale with anything.

The part where it doesn't scale with anything is actually a good thing. (Except Knight Slayer, but that's a special case.)

No, seriously.

It means that you give up some potential damage for guaranteed damage. Except, in the case of Shieldbreaker, it's not guaranteed at all, because you don't know with absolute certainty that your opponent will be using a shield. Even if you are, you'll still be dealing less damage to most targets than you will going with a different damage set.

Shieldbreaker exists because players were stacking ridiculous shields in Cyrodiil without penalty. The set was created to make that strategy much riskier... and, you know what? It works.

Knight Slayer's a similar thing. It exists to make heavy mitigation builds that just wander around and do nothing far riskier. It works too.

You do not give up anything. Its the exact opposite mate. If the dmg scales it means i have to build for dmg, therefore i am actually sacrificing something like sustain or survivability. If the dmg doesnt scale with anything then i dont have to build for dmg and i can focus on sustain and survivability. Thats literally the entire concept of proc sets. Let ur gear do the dmg for you and just focus on everything else.

Its the concept of oblivion dmg at its root that is very problematic. Not the freaking conditions on how it deals that dmg. Its the fact that it deals that type of dmg. It ignores every form of defence in the game. Shieldbreaker doesnt work because it makes a strategy riskier or whatever the hell you want to call it. It works because its a stupid set that doesnt require any skill input and hardcounters an entire class/playstyle. I am sorry but thats not strategy. Thats stupidity. If you want a set to counter shields then it should be +X% dmg on shields. Aka, actual shieldbreaker that requires skill input and having a decent build. Thats actually making a playstyle riskier. Thats actually strategy.

Maulkin · April 2018

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Shield Breaker is balanced. I have a stamina and magic DPS of all classes as well as a tank/tanky build for all classes. Is it strong vs a shield hell yes no question about it. But that’s the point it should be shields are very strong even with the short timer. No crit or secondary effects shields are very strong. If you build with just a little bit of health and two pieces of heavy does a lot.

Shield breaker is only strong if shields are you sole defense. Low heath, resistance and or stamina is normal for most magic builds.

What a load of crap. To counter it you need HoTs, possibly a non-shield based burst heal and pets also help (as well as giving you that heal).
Max health, stamina and resistances slightly increase the time you have to burst down the Shieldbreaker user without shields up.

Maulkin wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Shield Breaker is balanced. I have a stamina and magic DPS of all classes as well as a tank/tanky build for all classes. Is it strong vs a shield hell yes no question about it. But that’s the point it should be shields are very strong even with the short timer. No crit or secondary effects shields are very strong. If you build with just a little bit of health and two pieces of heavy does a lot.

Shield breaker is only strong if shields are you sole defense. Low heath, resistance and or stamina is normal for most magic builds.

What does shield breaker, which deals unmitigated oblivion damage, have to do with 2 heavy pieces, resistances and your HP pool? Holy crap, this nonsense.

I love how people that presumably hardly ever play MagSorc, tell you to build a tanky build that counters shield breaker. As if 4 years of game history and countless people trying and failing, is not an an indication that you can't build a competitive heavy armour MagSorc that does not rely on wards.

Newsflash: the class is not MagBlade or MagDK, it has has no fecking HoTs or spammables

But I'm sure Mr. @kendellking_chaosb14_ESO is the first one to have managed it and he's about to share a video any minute now of his godly self wrecking anyone and everyone (incl. shield-breaker users) with his mighty tanky sorc in 2-piece heavy.

I'll wait.

I really hate magic builds like you guys you complain that you die without a shield yet when told to make the wild sacrifice of a 5-2 build over a 5-1-1 it’s like that will not going to help (you just want the higher magic) and when told that more health would keep you alive it’s nope nope not going to try. Shield breaker only deals damage to shields. Pop Mutagen and literally any heal you want burst or HoT heal + Mutagen, CC then however your class CCs and fight without a shield.

A load of crap is someone thinking that a defense with all of 2 counters is so weak because they they have low health without that’s not the shields fault if you less then 21k in PvP you will die just how it is. I see way too many mages with 15-16k health like they have not one bonus to health that’s your fault you died.

If you build for all damage and you don’t slot not one defense set or bonus it’s your fault you dies you’re a glass canon and glass canons don’t get to complain when they die. All my magic builds have Bastion of The Heartland on. Cuts my DPS and max magic, I take a whole 5 more seconds to kill someone but when my shield drops or I get CCed it’s not game over.

Right okay, so you're trolling. I'll leave you be then.

Mr_Nobody · April 2018

Shield Breaker was introduced so sorcs stay as they are back in 1.6/IC launch ~ Sorcs were nr1 dominant PvP class thus measures had to be taken. Sorcs are still probably Nr2 after stamina nightblades.

ToRelax · April 2018

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Shield Breaker is balanced. I have a stamina and magic DPS of all classes as well as a tank/tanky build for all classes. Is it strong vs a shield hell yes no question about it. But that’s the point it should be shields are very strong even with the short timer. No crit or secondary effects shields are very strong. If you build with just a little bit of health and two pieces of heavy does a lot.

Shield breaker is only strong if shields are you sole defense. Low heath, resistance and or stamina is normal for most magic builds.

What a load of crap. To counter it you need HoTs, possibly a non-shield based burst heal and pets also help (as well as giving you that heal).
Max health, stamina and resistances slightly increase the time you have to burst down the Shieldbreaker user without shields up.

Maulkin wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Shield Breaker is balanced. I have a stamina and magic DPS of all classes as well as a tank/tanky build for all classes. Is it strong vs a shield hell yes no question about it. But that’s the point it should be shields are very strong even with the short timer. No crit or secondary effects shields are very strong. If you build with just a little bit of health and two pieces of heavy does a lot.

Shield breaker is only strong if shields are you sole defense. Low heath, resistance and or stamina is normal for most magic builds.

What does shield breaker, which deals unmitigated oblivion damage, have to do with 2 heavy pieces, resistances and your HP pool? Holy crap, this nonsense.

I love how people that presumably hardly ever play MagSorc, tell you to build a tanky build that counters shield breaker. As if 4 years of game history and countless people trying and failing, is not an an indication that you can't build a competitive heavy armour MagSorc that does not rely on wards.

Newsflash: the class is not MagBlade or MagDK, it has has no fecking HoTs or spammables

But I'm sure Mr. @kendellking_chaosb14_ESO is the first one to have managed it and he's about to share a video any minute now of his godly self wrecking anyone and everyone (incl. shield-breaker users) with his mighty tanky sorc in 2-piece heavy.

I'll wait.

I really hate magic builds like you guys you complain that you die without a shield yet when told to make the wild sacrifice of a 5-2 build over a 5-1-1 it’s like that will not going to help (you just want the higher magic) and when told that more health would keep you alive it’s nope nope not going to try. Shield breaker only deals damage to shields. Pop Mutagen and literally any heal you want burst or HoT heal + Mutagen, CC then however your class CCs and fight without a shield.

A load of crap is someone thinking that a defense with all of 2 counters is so weak because they they have low health without that’s not the shields fault if you less then 21k in PvP you will die just how it is. I see way too many mages with 15-16k health like they have not one bonus to health that’s your fault you died.

If you build for all damage and you don’t slot not one defense set or bonus it’s your fault you dies you’re a glass canon and glass canons don’t get to complain when they die. All my magic builds have Bastion of The Heartland on. Cuts my DPS and max magic, I take a whole 5 more seconds to kill someone but when my shield drops or I get CCed it’s not game over.

Fyi, on my life build I have a significantly higher health pool and higher resistances than most magSorcs, better defense with Riposte, 7 impen and very good stam sustain. You know what all of those things have in common? They don't counter Shieldbreaker and they're not the target of Shieldbreaker.

ak_pvp · April 2018

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Shield Breaker was introduced so sorcs stay as they are back in 1.6/IC launch ~ Sorcs were nr1 dominant PvP class thus measures had to be taken. Sorcs are still probably Nr2 after stamina nightblades.

Nah, its stamblade>stamden>magblade, rest (various strengths/weaknesses) >stamDK/Magplar. Magsorc is a lot weaker since their killing power got a bit of a nerf, as well as the sustain nerf affecting them heavier than some other classes, since using shields every second/GCD is a lot more costly than cloak every 2.5s

Sorcs were dominant mag from IC-Morrow, then just decent post that.

Sanctum74 · April 2018

These SB nerf threads are always so entertaining. Maybe Zos hasn't nerfed SB yet is because none of you can still give a valid arguement as to why it's op after all the countless threads throughout the years.

It's always the same old blah blah about how sorcs shouldn't have to slot hot's or adjust their build because they have been playing the same way since the game came out. Think about how stupid that is, maybe we should go back to living in caves then since cavemen did that for so long. I play every class and I've had to adjust my builds and play styles many times on all of them throughout the years including sorc.

Then there's the oh no top level sorcs are dieing to SB arguement, sorry but your not a top level sorc if your repeatedly dieing to SB. Not trying to smash any egos, but that's just a fact.

So if you want to be taken serious and want SB to be nerfed then answer the following questions.

Why can't sorcs use hot's or vitality pots?

Why can't sorcs have some resistance in their builds?

Why can't sorcs use los since they have the best mobility in the game?

Why can't sorcs look at their resource bar and notice their health is going down under their shield and derp stop applying shields, pop a vitality pot and hot's, and go on the offensive?

How does SB magically make you unable to cc the person and go on the offensive?

Why are sorcs the only magic class that whines about SB when other magic classes also rely on shields and get by just fine?

Why are sorcs still relying on only one form of damage mitigation and then whine when it gets countered?

Just to be clear I would love to see all proc sets removed from this game, but I just don't think it's right to go on crusade to nerf one particular set because people don't want to adjust their builds or play style. Adapt and overcome and just maybe some of you will become that top level sorc you think you are.

BohnT · April 2018

Sanctum74 wrote: »

These SB nerf threads are always so entertaining. Maybe Zos hasn't nerfed SB yet is because none of you can still give a valid arguement as to why it's op after all the countless threads throughout the years.

It's always the same old blah blah about how sorcs shouldn't have to slot hot's or adjust their build because they have been playing the same way since the game came out. Think about how stupid that is, maybe we should go back to living in caves then since cavemen did that for so long. I play every class and I've had to adjust my builds and play styles many times on all of them throughout the years including sorc.

Then there's the oh no top level sorcs are dieing to SB arguement, sorry but your not a top level sorc if your repeatedly dieing to SB. Not trying to smash any egos, but that's just a fact.

So if you want to be taken serious and want SB to be nerfed then answer the following questions.

Why can't sorcs use hot's or vitality pots?

Why can't sorcs have some resistance in their builds?

Why can't sorcs use los since they have the best mobility in the game?

Why can't sorcs look at their resource bar and notice their health is going down under their shield and derp stop applying shields, pop a vitality pot and hot's, and go on the offensive?

How does SB magically make you unable to cc the person and go on the offensive?

Why are sorcs the only magic class that whines about SB when other magic classes also rely on shields and get by just fine?

Why are sorcs still relying on only one form of damage mitigation and then whine when it gets countered?

Just to be clear I would love to see all proc sets removed from this game, but I just don't think it's right to go on crusade to nerf one particular set because people don't want to adjust their builds or play style. Adapt and overcome and just maybe some of you will become that top level sorc you think you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcKUKBy7_uk&t=1s

this should answer all your questions
short answer because it doesn't work at all

Maulkin · April 2018

Sanctum74 wrote: »

These SB nerf threads are always so entertaining. Maybe Zos hasn't nerfed SB yet is because none of you can still give a valid arguement as to why it's op after all the countless threads throughout the years.

It's always the same old blah blah about how sorcs shouldn't have to slot hot's or adjust their build because they have been playing the same way since the game came out. Think about how stupid that is, maybe we should go back to living in caves then since cavemen did that for so long. I play every class and I've had to adjust my builds and play styles many times on all of them throughout the years including sorc.

Then there's the oh no top level sorcs are dieing to SB arguement, sorry but your not a top level sorc if your repeatedly dieing to SB. Not trying to smash any egos, but that's just a fact.

So if you want to be taken serious and want SB to be nerfed then answer the following questions.

Why can't sorcs use hot's or vitality pots?

Why can't sorcs have some resistance in their builds?

Why can't sorcs use los since they have the best mobility in the game?

Why can't sorcs look at their resource bar and notice their health is going down under their shield and derp stop applying shields, pop a vitality pot and hot's, and go on the offensive?

How does SB magically make you unable to cc the person and go on the offensive?

Why are sorcs the only magic class that whines about SB when other magic classes also rely on shields and get by just fine?

Why are sorcs still relying on only one form of damage mitigation and then whine when it gets countered?

Just to be clear I would love to see all proc sets removed from this game, but I just don't think it's right to go on crusade to nerf one particular set because people don't want to adjust their builds or play style. Adapt and overcome and just maybe some of you will become that top level sorc you think you are.

Here's a great idea. Instead of me writing a wall of text you won't even read. How about you go make a magsorc and tell me how all these suggestions work out, hm?

Gilvoth · April 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

These SB nerf threads are always so entertaining. Maybe Zos hasn't nerfed SB yet is because none of you can still give a valid arguement as to why it's op after all the countless threads throughout the years.

It's always the same old blah blah about how sorcs shouldn't have to slot hot's or adjust their build because they have been playing the same way since the game came out. Think about how stupid that is, maybe we should go back to living in caves then since cavemen did that for so long. I play every class and I've had to adjust my builds and play styles many times on all of them throughout the years including sorc.

Then there's the oh no top level sorcs are dieing to SB arguement, sorry but your not a top level sorc if your repeatedly dieing to SB. Not trying to smash any egos, but that's just a fact.

So if you want to be taken serious and want SB to be nerfed then answer the following questions.

Why can't sorcs use hot's or vitality pots?

Why can't sorcs have some resistance in their builds?

Why can't sorcs use los since they have the best mobility in the game?

Why can't sorcs look at their resource bar and notice their health is going down under their shield and derp stop applying shields, pop a vitality pot and hot's, and go on the offensive?

How does SB magically make you unable to cc the person and go on the offensive?

Why are sorcs the only magic class that whines about SB when other magic classes also rely on shields and get by just fine?

Why are sorcs still relying on only one form of damage mitigation and then whine when it gets countered?

Just to be clear I would love to see all proc sets removed from this game, but I just don't think it's right to go on crusade to nerf one particular set because people don't want to adjust their builds or play style. Adapt and overcome and just maybe some of you will become that top level sorc you think you are.

Here's a great idea. Instead of me writing a wall of text you won't even read. How about you go make a magsorc and tell me how all these suggestions work out, hm?

that is all you guys do, you bicker and nit pik small short sentences in responce to our detailed and down to a science answers.
the fact remains that you guys dont want to accept that this armor set is balanced and you keep spaming aurguments to keep the thread on top of the threads list so i say again the following:
we shouldnt have to defend the same topics every single day from the same people who spamm these same threads daily.
it is very boring, and is getting really old.
please stop making these kinds of nerf threads.

Maulkin · April 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

These SB nerf threads are always so entertaining. Maybe Zos hasn't nerfed SB yet is because none of you can still give a valid arguement as to why it's op after all the countless threads throughout the years.

It's always the same old blah blah about how sorcs shouldn't have to slot hot's or adjust their build because they have been playing the same way since the game came out. Think about how stupid that is, maybe we should go back to living in caves then since cavemen did that for so long. I play every class and I've had to adjust my builds and play styles many times on all of them throughout the years including sorc.

Then there's the oh no top level sorcs are dieing to SB arguement, sorry but your not a top level sorc if your repeatedly dieing to SB. Not trying to smash any egos, but that's just a fact.

So if you want to be taken serious and want SB to be nerfed then answer the following questions.

Why can't sorcs use hot's or vitality pots?

Why can't sorcs have some resistance in their builds?

Why can't sorcs use los since they have the best mobility in the game?

Why can't sorcs look at their resource bar and notice their health is going down under their shield and derp stop applying shields, pop a vitality pot and hot's, and go on the offensive?

How does SB magically make you unable to cc the person and go on the offensive?

Why are sorcs the only magic class that whines about SB when other magic classes also rely on shields and get by just fine?

Why are sorcs still relying on only one form of damage mitigation and then whine when it gets countered?

Just to be clear I would love to see all proc sets removed from this game, but I just don't think it's right to go on crusade to nerf one particular set because people don't want to adjust their builds or play style. Adapt and overcome and just maybe some of you will become that top level sorc you think you are.

Here's a great idea. Instead of me writing a wall of text you won't even read. How about you go make a magsorc and tell me how all these suggestions work out, hm?

that is all you guys do, you bicker and nit pik small short sentences in responce to our detailed and down to a science answers.
the fact remains that you guys dont want to accept that this armor set is balanced and you keep spaming aurguments to keep the thread on top of the threads list so i say again the following:
we shouldnt have to defend the same topics every single day from the same people who spamm these same threads daily.
it is very boring, and is getting really old.
please stop making these kinds of nerf threads.

Thanks for the entertainment, as always.

Checkmath · April 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

These SB nerf threads are always so entertaining. Maybe Zos hasn't nerfed SB yet is because none of you can still give a valid arguement as to why it's op after all the countless threads throughout the years.

It's always the same old blah blah about how sorcs shouldn't have to slot hot's or adjust their build because they have been playing the same way since the game came out. Think about how stupid that is, maybe we should go back to living in caves then since cavemen did that for so long. I play every class and I've had to adjust my builds and play styles many times on all of them throughout the years including sorc.

Then there's the oh no top level sorcs are dieing to SB arguement, sorry but your not a top level sorc if your repeatedly dieing to SB. Not trying to smash any egos, but that's just a fact.

So if you want to be taken serious and want SB to be nerfed then answer the following questions.

Why can't sorcs use hot's or vitality pots?

Why can't sorcs have some resistance in their builds?

Why can't sorcs use los since they have the best mobility in the game?

Why can't sorcs look at their resource bar and notice their health is going down under their shield and derp stop applying shields, pop a vitality pot and hot's, and go on the offensive?

How does SB magically make you unable to cc the person and go on the offensive?

Why are sorcs the only magic class that whines about SB when other magic classes also rely on shields and get by just fine?

Why are sorcs still relying on only one form of damage mitigation and then whine when it gets countered?

Just to be clear I would love to see all proc sets removed from this game, but I just don't think it's right to go on crusade to nerf one particular set because people don't want to adjust their builds or play style. Adapt and overcome and just maybe some of you will become that top level sorc you think you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcKUKBy7_uk&t=1s
this should answer all your questions
short answer because it doesn't work at all

Hahaha indigitally girl is a real zergling, funny that she makes a video, where most kills are a Xv1 scenario...bad luck for those good magsorcs dying to her by shieldbreaker....

BohnT · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

These SB nerf threads are always so entertaining. Maybe Zos hasn't nerfed SB yet is because none of you can still give a valid arguement as to why it's op after all the countless threads throughout the years.

It's always the same old blah blah about how sorcs shouldn't have to slot hot's or adjust their build because they have been playing the same way since the game came out. Think about how stupid that is, maybe we should go back to living in caves then since cavemen did that for so long. I play every class and I've had to adjust my builds and play styles many times on all of them throughout the years including sorc.

Then there's the oh no top level sorcs are dieing to SB arguement, sorry but your not a top level sorc if your repeatedly dieing to SB. Not trying to smash any egos, but that's just a fact.

So if you want to be taken serious and want SB to be nerfed then answer the following questions.

Why can't sorcs use hot's or vitality pots?

Why can't sorcs have some resistance in their builds?

Why can't sorcs use los since they have the best mobility in the game?

Why can't sorcs look at their resource bar and notice their health is going down under their shield and derp stop applying shields, pop a vitality pot and hot's, and go on the offensive?

How does SB magically make you unable to cc the person and go on the offensive?

Why are sorcs the only magic class that whines about SB when other magic classes also rely on shields and get by just fine?

Why are sorcs still relying on only one form of damage mitigation and then whine when it gets countered?

Just to be clear I would love to see all proc sets removed from this game, but I just don't think it's right to go on crusade to nerf one particular set because people don't want to adjust their builds or play style. Adapt and overcome and just maybe some of you will become that top level sorc you think you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcKUKBy7_uk&t=1s
this should answer all your questions
short answer because it doesn't work at all

Hahaha indigitally girl is a real zergling, funny that she makes a video, where most kills are a Xv1 scenario...bad luck for those good magsorcs dying to her by shieldbreaker....

no way indi is a girl

Biro123 · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

These SB nerf threads are always so entertaining. Maybe Zos hasn't nerfed SB yet is because none of you can still give a valid arguement as to why it's op after all the countless threads throughout the years.

It's always the same old blah blah about how sorcs shouldn't have to slot hot's or adjust their build because they have been playing the same way since the game came out. Think about how stupid that is, maybe we should go back to living in caves then since cavemen did that for so long. I play every class and I've had to adjust my builds and play styles many times on all of them throughout the years including sorc.

Then there's the oh no top level sorcs are dieing to SB arguement, sorry but your not a top level sorc if your repeatedly dieing to SB. Not trying to smash any egos, but that's just a fact.

So if you want to be taken serious and want SB to be nerfed then answer the following questions.

Why can't sorcs use hot's or vitality pots?

Why can't sorcs have some resistance in their builds?

Why can't sorcs use los since they have the best mobility in the game?

Why can't sorcs look at their resource bar and notice their health is going down under their shield and derp stop applying shields, pop a vitality pot and hot's, and go on the offensive?

How does SB magically make you unable to cc the person and go on the offensive?

Why are sorcs the only magic class that whines about SB when other magic classes also rely on shields and get by just fine?

Why are sorcs still relying on only one form of damage mitigation and then whine when it gets countered?

Just to be clear I would love to see all proc sets removed from this game, but I just don't think it's right to go on crusade to nerf one particular set because people don't want to adjust their builds or play style. Adapt and overcome and just maybe some of you will become that top level sorc you think you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcKUKBy7_uk&t=1s
this should answer all your questions
short answer because it doesn't work at all

Hahaha indigitally girl is a real zergling, funny that she makes a video, where most kills are a Xv1 scenario...bad luck for those good magsorcs dying to her by shieldbreaker....

Hah - yeah I though that was funny. I'm only average but last time I fought him(her)? was a 1v4 and he(she)? was the first to drop despite that sb crap.. (I was 2nd to drop - lol)

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2018

Here the short of it if you are a stamina build and your only defense is roll dodge then undodgable attacks will kill you. If your only defense is blocking unblockable CCs will open you up to dying. If all you have as defense is shields then you will die to Shield Breaker.

If you have have no defensive sets you’re a glass canon. If someone gets the drop on you or you pop shields back to while running you will dead to a set that’s only useful vs mages. You can’t say stamina builds are everywhere then turn around and say a anti-magic set is too OP who outside of random gankers is using this?

Sanctum74 · April 2018

So a pointless video and go make a sorc is the best arguement you can all come up with! Maybe that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet is because SB does not prevent you from using any of the working counters above, but your all just stuck on repeat and refuse to adapt.

Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? Lol so keep shield stacking and crying for nerfs and see how that works out for you. I guess I'm not a top level sorc since I don't die to SB.

ToRelax · April 2018

Sanctum74 wrote: »

These SB nerf threads are always so entertaining. Maybe Zos hasn't nerfed SB yet is because none of you can still give a valid arguement as to why it's op after all the countless threads throughout the years.

It's always the same old blah blah about how sorcs shouldn't have to slot hot's or adjust their build because they have been playing the same way since the game came out. Think about how stupid that is, maybe we should go back to living in caves then since cavemen did that for so long. I play every class and I've had to adjust my builds and play styles many times on all of them throughout the years including sorc.

Then there's the oh no top level sorcs are dieing to SB arguement, sorry but your not a top level sorc if your repeatedly dieing to SB. Not trying to smash any egos, but that's just a fact.

So if you want to be taken serious and want SB to be nerfed then answer the following questions.

Why can't sorcs use hot's or vitality pots?

Why can't sorcs have some resistance in their builds?

Why can't sorcs use los since they have the best mobility in the game?

Why can't sorcs look at their resource bar and notice their health is going down under their shield and derp stop applying shields, pop a vitality pot and hot's, and go on the offensive?

How does SB magically make you unable to cc the person and go on the offensive?

Why are sorcs the only magic class that whines about SB when other magic classes also rely on shields and get by just fine?

Why are sorcs still relying on only one form of damage mitigation and then whine when it gets countered?

Just to be clear I would love to see all proc sets removed from this game, but I just don't think it's right to go on crusade to nerf one particular set because people don't want to adjust their builds or play style. Adapt and overcome and just maybe some of you will become that top level sorc you think you are.

Okay. So, back at launch until 1.4 hit, I used a destro/bow build with shieldstacking and surge. In 1.4, I took on Healing Ward. With 1.5 Harness was nerfed and I resorted to dropping Hardened along with it to rely on Surge + Rapid Regen, which wasn't competitive in 1v1, but neither was Sorc as a whole.
Then 1.6 hit, nerfed Surge to the ground, removed softcaps which allowed shieldstacking for days while making burst much more and thus HoTs much less effective. 2.1 then decreased burst damage by a huge amount, gutted mobility and also introduced SB, while not giving Sorc any HoTs back to actually deal with it.
Fast forward to present and overall burst has been slowly rising thanks to totally unpredictable powercreep and there are still people who tell us we should try focusing more on HoTs despite still only having a nerfed Surge, instead of focusing on shields, which are actually good against burst damage, in order to deal with burst damage.

So, please. I would love to rely on HoTs. It's also not possible on a competitive level. I'm trying to be nice because I think I'm dealing with ignorance more than anything here, but I would hope for either a willingness to learn (that is, going out there on a magSorc and learning to play it at such a high level that you are qualified to comment on it balance wise) or for those who don't, to shut up about things they do not have an informed opinion about.

Biro123 · April 2018

Sanctum74 wrote: »

So a pointless video and go make a sorc is the best arguement you can all come up with! Maybe that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet is because SB does not prevent you from using any of the working counters above, but your all just stuck on repeat and refuse to adapt.

Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? Lol so keep shield stacking and crying for nerfs and see how that works out for you. I guess I'm not a top level sorc since I don't die to SB.

No its no the best argument.

All of us here have given good valid arguments with numbers, real in-game examples of the numbers that mutagen, healing ward, surge etc. pulls when compared to shieldbreaker and the unviability of builds that CAN handle shieldbreaker vs everybody else.

We've given them time and time again over months and months - to the same people time and time again - people who have never, ever played magsorc in PVP without dedicated healers. People who refuse to listen time and time again to those who HAVE played the class - a lot - and know what they are talking about.

We've given them until we're blue in the face and so sick to death of talking to a plank, we simply give you the TL:DR ... Do what BohnT did - make your own sorc - play it and see. It made him change his opinion on the set.

Nothing more to be said really. There's no point me pulling out real numbers again - cus you'll only ignore them.

starkerealm · April 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

.

starkerealm wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ever since oblivion damage was introduced in the form of Shieldbreaker it has been a huge controversy.

Oblivion damage was in the game at launch. The unresistable damage rune? Yeah, that was Oblivion. It's also been around as a damage type for enemy attacks, particularly mandatory wipe mechanics. Again, since launch.

The only thing Shieldbreaker did was put that on a 5pc bonus.

And since then everything went to ****. And instead of realising what a dumb idea that was and just scrap it, they keep putting more **** like that in the game. Because what can possibly go wrong when you give people multiple sources of unmitigated dmg that doesnt scale with anything.

The part where it doesn't scale with anything is actually a good thing. (Except Knight Slayer, but that's a special case.)

No, seriously.

It means that you give up some potential damage for guaranteed damage. Except, in the case of Shieldbreaker, it's not guaranteed at all, because you don't know with absolute certainty that your opponent will be using a shield. Even if you are, you'll still be dealing less damage to most targets than you will going with a different damage set.

Shieldbreaker exists because players were stacking ridiculous shields in Cyrodiil without penalty. The set was created to make that strategy much riskier... and, you know what? It works.

Knight Slayer's a similar thing. It exists to make heavy mitigation builds that just wander around and do nothing far riskier. It works too.

So, does that mean you can create and play a competitive mag Sorc build that doesn't rely on stacking shields, isn't countered by Shieldbreaker and doesn't just wander around doing nothing?

Yes.

Please elaborate on your build, then? I know you think that, but I can't discuss it without information what makes you think that way.

Nearly any sorc build that doesn't go into PvP with 10k health. That can be simply starting with 25k health, to which I can already hear the cries of, "oh, but my damage goes down," which... you know... no, your damage does not go down in comparison to if you're dead.

A sorc that goes into combat in heavy armor. "Oh, but my damage!"

But, this entire, "no, the only possible way a sorc could survive is if I'm spamming shields," is how we got Shieldbreaker in the first place. Because idiots were going into Cyrodiil with 10-12k health, and 60k shields, and scampering around being unkillable, and it wasn't entertaining. So a counter was introduced with the Imperial City to make that strategy riskier.

This thread is, literally, a complaint about how someone is throwing rocks at your glass cannon, using light attacks.

Biro123 · April 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

.

starkerealm wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ever since oblivion damage was introduced in the form of Shieldbreaker it has been a huge controversy.

Oblivion damage was in the game at launch. The unresistable damage rune? Yeah, that was Oblivion. It's also been around as a damage type for enemy attacks, particularly mandatory wipe mechanics. Again, since launch.

The only thing Shieldbreaker did was put that on a 5pc bonus.

And since then everything went to ****. And instead of realising what a dumb idea that was and just scrap it, they keep putting more **** like that in the game. Because what can possibly go wrong when you give people multiple sources of unmitigated dmg that doesnt scale with anything.

The part where it doesn't scale with anything is actually a good thing. (Except Knight Slayer, but that's a special case.)

No, seriously.

It means that you give up some potential damage for guaranteed damage. Except, in the case of Shieldbreaker, it's not guaranteed at all, because you don't know with absolute certainty that your opponent will be using a shield. Even if you are, you'll still be dealing less damage to most targets than you will going with a different damage set.

Shieldbreaker exists because players were stacking ridiculous shields in Cyrodiil without penalty. The set was created to make that strategy much riskier... and, you know what? It works.

Knight Slayer's a similar thing. It exists to make heavy mitigation builds that just wander around and do nothing far riskier. It works too.

So, does that mean you can create and play a competitive mag Sorc build that doesn't rely on stacking shields, isn't countered by Shieldbreaker and doesn't just wander around doing nothing?

Yes.

Please elaborate on your build, then? I know you think that, but I can't discuss it without information what makes you think that way.

Nearly any sorc build that doesn't go into PvP with 10k health. That can be simply starting with 25k health, to which I can already hear the cries of, "oh, but my damage goes down," which... you know... no, your damage does not go down in comparison to if you're dead.

A sorc that goes into combat in heavy armor. "Oh, but my damage!"

But, this entire, "no, the only possible way a sorc could survive is if I'm spamming shields," is how we got Shieldbreaker in the first place. Because idiots were going into Cyrodiil with 10-12k health, and 60k shields, and scampering around being unkillable, and it wasn't entertaining. So a counter was introduced with the Imperial City to make that strategy riskier.

This thread is, literally, a complaint about how someone is throwing rocks at your glass cannon, using light attacks.

Ahh, there's nothing like a huge dose of exaggeration sprinkled with a hint of ridiculous to make your point.

Sanctum74 · April 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

These SB nerf threads are always so entertaining. Maybe Zos hasn't nerfed SB yet is because none of you can still give a valid arguement as to why it's op after all the countless threads throughout the years.

It's always the same old blah blah about how sorcs shouldn't have to slot hot's or adjust their build because they have been playing the same way since the game came out. Think about how stupid that is, maybe we should go back to living in caves then since cavemen did that for so long. I play every class and I've had to adjust my builds and play styles many times on all of them throughout the years including sorc.

Then there's the oh no top level sorcs are dieing to SB arguement, sorry but your not a top level sorc if your repeatedly dieing to SB. Not trying to smash any egos, but that's just a fact.

So if you want to be taken serious and want SB to be nerfed then answer the following questions.

Why can't sorcs use hot's or vitality pots?

Why can't sorcs have some resistance in their builds?

Why can't sorcs use los since they have the best mobility in the game?

Why can't sorcs look at their resource bar and notice their health is going down under their shield and derp stop applying shields, pop a vitality pot and hot's, and go on the offensive?

How does SB magically make you unable to cc the person and go on the offensive?

Why are sorcs the only magic class that whines about SB when other magic classes also rely on shields and get by just fine?

Why are sorcs still relying on only one form of damage mitigation and then whine when it gets countered?

Just to be clear I would love to see all proc sets removed from this game, but I just don't think it's right to go on crusade to nerf one particular set because people don't want to adjust their builds or play style. Adapt and overcome and just maybe some of you will become that top level sorc you think you are.

Okay. So, back at launch until 1.4 hit, I used a destro/bow build with shieldstacking and surge. In 1.4, I took on Healing Ward. With 1.5 Harness was nerfed and I resorted to dropping Hardened along with it to rely on Surge + Rapid Regen, which wasn't competitive in 1v1, but neither was Sorc as a whole.
Then 1.6 hit, nerfed Surge to the ground, removed softcaps which allowed shieldstacking for days while making burst much more and thus HoTs much less effective. 2.1 then decreased burst damage by a huge amount, gutted mobility and also introduced SB, while not giving Sorc any HoTs back to actually deal with it.
Fast forward to present and overall burst has been slowly rising thanks to totally unpredictable powercreep and there are still people who tell us we should try focusing more on HoTs despite still only having a nerfed Surge, instead of focusing on shields, which are actually good against burst damage, in order to deal with burst damage.

So, please. I would love to rely on HoTs. It's also not possible on a competitive level. I'm trying to be nice because I think I'm dealing with ignorance more than anything here, but I would hope for either a willingness to learn (that is, going out there on a magSorc and learning to play it at such a high level that you are qualified to comment on it balance wise) or for those who don't, to shut up about things they do not have an informed opinion about.

Thank you for trying to be nice, but you're definately right about dealing with ignorance if you're not willing to adapt your play style and keep complaining about the same thing. I also find it rude to tell others to shut up when you're obviously not the competitive high level sorc you think you are if you keep dieing to SB, maybe you shouldn't be commenting then according to your reasoning.

ToRelax · April 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

.

starkerealm wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ever since oblivion damage was introduced in the form of Shieldbreaker it has been a huge controversy.

Oblivion damage was in the game at launch. The unresistable damage rune? Yeah, that was Oblivion. It's also been around as a damage type for enemy attacks, particularly mandatory wipe mechanics. Again, since launch.

The only thing Shieldbreaker did was put that on a 5pc bonus.

And since then everything went to ****. And instead of realising what a dumb idea that was and just scrap it, they keep putting more **** like that in the game. Because what can possibly go wrong when you give people multiple sources of unmitigated dmg that doesnt scale with anything.

The part where it doesn't scale with anything is actually a good thing. (Except Knight Slayer, but that's a special case.)

No, seriously.

It means that you give up some potential damage for guaranteed damage. Except, in the case of Shieldbreaker, it's not guaranteed at all, because you don't know with absolute certainty that your opponent will be using a shield. Even if you are, you'll still be dealing less damage to most targets than you will going with a different damage set.

Shieldbreaker exists because players were stacking ridiculous shields in Cyrodiil without penalty. The set was created to make that strategy much riskier... and, you know what? It works.

Knight Slayer's a similar thing. It exists to make heavy mitigation builds that just wander around and do nothing far riskier. It works too.

So, does that mean you can create and play a competitive mag Sorc build that doesn't rely on stacking shields, isn't countered by Shieldbreaker and doesn't just wander around doing nothing?

Yes.

Please elaborate on your build, then? I know you think that, but I can't discuss it without information what makes you think that way.

Nearly any sorc build that doesn't go into PvP with 10k health. That can be simply starting with 25k health, to which I can already hear the cries of, "oh, but my damage goes down," which... you know... no, your damage does not go down in comparison to if you're dead.

A sorc that goes into combat in heavy armor. "Oh, but my damage!"

But, this entire, "no, the only possible way a sorc could survive is if I'm spamming shields," is how we got Shieldbreaker in the first place. Because idiots were going into Cyrodiil with 10-12k health, and 60k shields, and scampering around being unkillable, and it wasn't entertaining. So a counter was introduced with the Imperial City to make that strategy riskier.

This thread is, literally, a complaint about how someone is throwing rocks at your glass cannon, using light attacks.

It is, and has been even when SB was introduced, literally impossible to enter PvP with 12k hp or less. Nice strawman.
You're also not going to hear such crying from me, because my build has around 28k hp in CP. Which, once again, does not counter SB. I asked you to make an argument. To point out how SB could be countered on magSorc without making a build non-competitive against anything else. And what do I get? Dodging, strawman arguments and wrong assumptions screaming "I don't actually have the experience to talk about the topic but do it anyway".

ToRelax · April 2018

Sanctum74 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

These SB nerf threads are always so entertaining. Maybe Zos hasn't nerfed SB yet is because none of you can still give a valid arguement as to why it's op after all the countless threads throughout the years.

It's always the same old blah blah about how sorcs shouldn't have to slot hot's or adjust their build because they have been playing the same way since the game came out. Think about how stupid that is, maybe we should go back to living in caves then since cavemen did that for so long. I play every class and I've had to adjust my builds and play styles many times on all of them throughout the years including sorc.

Then there's the oh no top level sorcs are dieing to SB arguement, sorry but your not a top level sorc if your repeatedly dieing to SB. Not trying to smash any egos, but that's just a fact.

So if you want to be taken serious and want SB to be nerfed then answer the following questions.

Why can't sorcs use hot's or vitality pots?

Why can't sorcs have some resistance in their builds?

Why can't sorcs use los since they have the best mobility in the game?

Why can't sorcs look at their resource bar and notice their health is going down under their shield and derp stop applying shields, pop a vitality pot and hot's, and go on the offensive?

How does SB magically make you unable to cc the person and go on the offensive?

Why are sorcs the only magic class that whines about SB when other magic classes also rely on shields and get by just fine?

Why are sorcs still relying on only one form of damage mitigation and then whine when it gets countered?

Just to be clear I would love to see all proc sets removed from this game, but I just don't think it's right to go on crusade to nerf one particular set because people don't want to adjust their builds or play style. Adapt and overcome and just maybe some of you will become that top level sorc you think you are.

Okay. So, back at launch until 1.4 hit, I used a destro/bow build with shieldstacking and surge. In 1.4, I took on Healing Ward. With 1.5 Harness was nerfed and I resorted to dropping Hardened along with it to rely on Surge + Rapid Regen, which wasn't competitive in 1v1, but neither was Sorc as a whole.
Then 1.6 hit, nerfed Surge to the ground, removed softcaps which allowed shieldstacking for days while making burst much more and thus HoTs much less effective. 2.1 then decreased burst damage by a huge amount, gutted mobility and also introduced SB, while not giving Sorc any HoTs back to actually deal with it.
Fast forward to present and overall burst has been slowly rising thanks to totally unpredictable powercreep and there are still people who tell us we should try focusing more on HoTs despite still only having a nerfed Surge, instead of focusing on shields, which are actually good against burst damage, in order to deal with burst damage.

So, please. I would love to rely on HoTs. It's also not possible on a competitive level. I'm trying to be nice because I think I'm dealing with ignorance more than anything here, but I would hope for either a willingness to learn (that is, going out there on a magSorc and learning to play it at such a high level that you are qualified to comment on it balance wise) or for those who don't, to shut up about things they do not have an informed opinion about.

Thank you for trying to be nice, but you're definately right about dealing with ignorance if you're not willing to adapt your play style and keep complaining about the same thing. I also find it rude to tell others to shut up when you're obviously not the competitive high level sorc you think you are if you keep dieing to SB, maybe you shouldn't be commenting then according to your reasoning.

I die to SB 1v1 against skilled opponents and sometimes 1vX against potatoes. The latter ones usually die a lot more often - in 1vX. Try again.

starkerealm · April 2018

pieratsos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ever since oblivion damage was introduced in the form of Shieldbreaker it has been a huge controversy.

Oblivion damage was in the game at launch. The unresistable damage rune? Yeah, that was Oblivion. It's also been around as a damage type for enemy attacks, particularly mandatory wipe mechanics. Again, since launch.

The only thing Shieldbreaker did was put that on a 5pc bonus.

And since then everything went to ****. And instead of realising what a dumb idea that was and just scrap it, they keep putting more **** like that in the game. Because what can possibly go wrong when you give people multiple sources of unmitigated dmg that doesnt scale with anything.

The part where it doesn't scale with anything is actually a good thing. (Except Knight Slayer, but that's a special case.)

No, seriously.

It means that you give up some potential damage for guaranteed damage. Except, in the case of Shieldbreaker, it's not guaranteed at all, because you don't know with absolute certainty that your opponent will be using a shield. Even if you are, you'll still be dealing less damage to most targets than you will going with a different damage set.

Shieldbreaker exists because players were stacking ridiculous shields in Cyrodiil without penalty. The set was created to make that strategy much riskier... and, you know what? It works.

Knight Slayer's a similar thing. It exists to make heavy mitigation builds that just wander around and do nothing far riskier. It works too.

You do not give up anything. Its the exact opposite mate.

You give up a 5pc bonus. That's, you know,, something. You could have Julianos, or Silks of the Sun, you could be running BSW, or Bloodthorn. You could be running freakin' Durok's, but instead you decided to slot Shieldbreaker, and, oh look, no one has any shields, you gave up your 5pc bonus for nothing.

That's what you give up. The option of bringing a useful 5pc bonus, instead of wandering around with one that is only a situational counter.

pieratsos wrote: »

If the dmg scales it means i have to build for dmg

Well, you're in luck, because the damage from Shieldbreaker scales with... nothing. Okay, it probably scales with Master-at-Arms like EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME. But, that's it. There is no, "hey, I want to do extra oblivion damage," star, because that would be comically broken.

pieratsos wrote: »

therefore i am actually sacrificing something like sustain or survivability. If the dmg doesnt scale with anything then i dont have to build for dmg and i can focus on sustain and survivability.

Except, of course, for the part where Shieldbreaker isn't a conventional proc set. Red Mountain doesn't care what your opponent is wearing or how if they started the round licking toads. It's always going to perform (baddly). Maw of the Infernal doesn't care about your opponent's armor weight, he just wants to give them a hug. But, Shieldbreaker? Shieldbreaker only works if they're trying to survive using a damage shield. Go toe to toe with the vast majority of players in the game, and it does nothing. At that point you would have, literally, gotten better millage from slotting something like Alessia's Bulwark, because at least you know your opponent will be dealing damage.

pieratsos wrote: »

Thats literally the entire concept of proc sets. Let ur gear do the dmg for you and just focus on everything else.

Then you may have missed the part where nearly every other proc set in the game actually does scale with other things. Particularly champion stars. "Oh, hey, Selenes!" Yeah, that scales with Mighty. Stormfist? Oh, right, same. Illambris? Elemental Expert. Oh, and all of those scale with Master-at-Arms, mentioned before. Velidreth? Yeah, that's Mighty again, and Thaumaturgy, instead of Master-At-Arms.

pieratsos wrote: »

Its the concept of oblivion dmg at its root that is very problematic. Not the freaking conditions on how it deals that dmg. Its the fact that it deals that type of dmg. It ignores every form of defence in the game. Shieldbreaker doesnt work because it makes a strategy riskier or whatever the hell you want to call it. It works because its a stupid set that doesnt require any skill input and hardcounters an entire class/playstyle.

Actually, no, it's a pretty solid counter for one very specific, toxic, build that used to dominate in Cyrodiil. Now you see intelligent players using it sparingly, if at all, because it's actually a little risky.

pieratsos wrote: »

I am sorry but thats not strategy. Thats stupidity.

I agree, wandering around PvP with 10k health is stupid. Put some prismatic glyphs on that build.

pieratsos wrote: »

If you want a set to counter shields then it should be +X% dmg on shields.

That's shattering blows, and everyone (with a coherant PvP loadout on their stars) already runs it to some extent.

pieratsos wrote: »

Aka, actual shieldbreaker that requires skill input and having a decent build. Thats actually making a playstyle riskier. Thats actually strategy.

No, this is actually a gamble. "Will I meet an idiot who has almost no health, but hides behind their shields? Or should I slot something that's actually useful?"

With a side of, "should I run around with almost no health, and hide behind shields, or will I run across someone who gave up their offensive options specifically to make my life miserable?"

It's a choice. A fairly expensive one, given it's on the 5pc bonus for a Tel Var set.

Sanctum74 · April 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

So a pointless video and go make a sorc is the best arguement you can all come up with! Maybe that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet is because SB does not prevent you from using any of the working counters above, but your all just stuck on repeat and refuse to adapt.

Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? Lol so keep shield stacking and crying for nerfs and see how that works out for you. I guess I'm not a top level sorc since I don't die to SB.

No its no the best argument.

All of us here have given good valid arguments with numbers, real in-game examples of the numbers that mutagen, healing ward, surge etc. pulls when compared to shieldbreaker and the unviability of builds that CAN handle shieldbreaker vs everybody else.

We've given them time and time again over months and months - to the same people time and time again - people who have never, ever played magsorc in PVP without dedicated healers. People who refuse to listen time and time again to those who HAVE played the class - a lot - and know what they are talking about.

We've given them until we're blue in the face and so sick to death of talking to a plank, we simply give you the TL:DR ... Do what BohnT did - make your own sorc - play it and see. It made him change his opinion on the set.

Nothing more to be said really. There's no point me pulling out real numbers again - cus you'll only ignore them.

Kind of like how you ignored everything I said. I play magscorc and I've seen all the numbers in the threads through the years and your second sentence demonstrates exactly why you're stuck in this cycle of complaining and dieing repeatedly.

If you're getting hit with SB stop shield stacking, yes healing ward is a shield! Have some health and resistance in your build and when you come across a SB user stop shield stacking, apply your hot's, cc them, and go on the offensive. If you're not stacking then SB is not hurting you, if you cc them they are not hurting you, if you're on the offensive they are not hurting you. Problem is you're all just stuck in this belief you have to play sorc the way it was 4 years ago and refuse to adapt.

Things have changed drastically since release and relying on the same thing you did 4 years ago doesn't work. Accept it, adapt, and overcome or keep complaining, but clearly that is not getting you anywhere.

pieratsos · April 2018

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

So a pointless video and go make a sorc is the best arguement you can all come up with! Maybe that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet is because SB does not prevent you from using any of the working counters above, but your all just stuck on repeat and refuse to adapt.

Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? Lol so keep shield stacking and crying for nerfs and see how that works out for you. I guess I'm not a top level sorc since I don't die to SB.

No its no the best argument.

All of us here have given good valid arguments with numbers, real in-game examples of the numbers that mutagen, healing ward, surge etc. pulls when compared to shieldbreaker and the unviability of builds that CAN handle shieldbreaker vs everybody else.

We've given them time and time again over months and months - to the same people time and time again - people who have never, ever played magsorc in PVP without dedicated healers. People who refuse to listen time and time again to those who HAVE played the class - a lot - and know what they are talking about.

We've given them until we're blue in the face and so sick to death of talking to a plank, we simply give you the TL:DR ... Do what BohnT did - make your own sorc - play it and see. It made him change his opinion on the set.

Nothing more to be said really. There's no point me pulling out real numbers again - cus you'll only ignore them.

Kind of like how you ignored everything I said. I play magscorc and I've seen all the numbers in the threads through the years and your second sentence demonstrates exactly why you're stuck in this cycle of complaining and dieing repeatedly.

If you're getting hit with SB stop shield stacking, yes healing ward is a shield! Have some health and resistance in your build and when you come across a SB user stop shield stacking, apply your hot's, cc them, and go on the offensive. If you're not stacking then SB is not hurting you, if you cc them they are not hurting you, if you're on the offensive they are not hurting you. Problem is you're all just stuck in this belief you have to play sorc the way it was 4 years ago and refuse to adapt.

Things have changed drastically since release and relying on the same thing you did 4 years ago doesn't work. Accept it, adapt, and overcome or keep complaining, but clearly that is not getting you anywhere.

Yeah you say that you play a sorc and that you made a competitive build that doesnt rely on shields yet everytime anyone tells you to share it you say nothing at all or change subject.

Biro123 · April 2018

Why do you people think more health makes any difference.? Do you not understand this game at all?

Surviving is a contest between the rate you take damage vs the rate you recover from it, with a whole bunch of other stuff impacting them - avoidance/mitigation/cc/buffs/debuffs etc..

Health is only needed as a buffer to survive burst. You could maximise health - but you're losing your ability to match your recov with their damage and only prolonging the inevitable. It's pointless.

Some numbers. Shieldbreaker alone kicks out 2250 damage every 0.6 seconds on bow light attacks. That's 3750dps. Add in an infused oblivion glyph hitting every 3rd attack (not exactly sure how often, tbf) = 1900 every 1.8 seconds. Another 1000 dps - so 4750.

To do 10k damage it takes just over 2 seconds.
20k = 4.2 seconds
30k = 6.3 seconds.

I'll say that again.. 20k damage in 4.2 seconds.

DO you know how much damage viper does in that time? Around 4k and then it gets mitigated by armour, so maybe 3k? (not to mention it has to be melee)... 20k ranged vs 3k melee... I'll let that sink in for a mo. People tend to think Viper is balanced nowadays..

Mutagen heals for around 700 per second.(1200 on crit). Haha... 700 vs 4700.. that's a great counter right there!!! It doesn't matter how high your health is - in fact the higher you make your health, the weaker you make your heal ticks..

The point is... 20k ranged off sb, 3k ranged Viper.. And you guys think its balanced.

pieratsos · April 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ever since oblivion damage was introduced in the form of Shieldbreaker it has been a huge controversy.

Oblivion damage was in the game at launch. The unresistable damage rune? Yeah, that was Oblivion. It's also been around as a damage type for enemy attacks, particularly mandatory wipe mechanics. Again, since launch.

The only thing Shieldbreaker did was put that on a 5pc bonus.

And since then everything went to ****. And instead of realising what a dumb idea that was and just scrap it, they keep putting more **** like that in the game. Because what can possibly go wrong when you give people multiple sources of unmitigated dmg that doesnt scale with anything.

The part where it doesn't scale with anything is actually a good thing. (Except Knight Slayer, but that's a special case.)

No, seriously.

It means that you give up some potential damage for guaranteed damage. Except, in the case of Shieldbreaker, it's not guaranteed at all, because you don't know with absolute certainty that your opponent will be using a shield. Even if you are, you'll still be dealing less damage to most targets than you will going with a different damage set.

Shieldbreaker exists because players were stacking ridiculous shields in Cyrodiil without penalty. The set was created to make that strategy much riskier... and, you know what? It works.

Knight Slayer's a similar thing. It exists to make heavy mitigation builds that just wander around and do nothing far riskier. It works too.

You do not give up anything. Its the exact opposite mate.

You give up a 5pc bonus. That's, you know,, something. You could have Julianos, or Silks of the Sun, you could be running BSW, or Bloodthorn. You could be running freakin' Durok's, but instead you decided to slot Shieldbreaker, and, oh look, no one has any shields, you gave up your 5pc bonus for nothing.

That's what you give up. The option of bringing a useful 5pc bonus, instead of wandering around with one that is only a situational counter.

pieratsos wrote: »

If the dmg scales it means i have to build for dmg

Well, you're in luck, because the damage from Shieldbreaker scales with... nothing. Okay, it probably scales with Master-at-Arms like EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME. But, that's it. There is no, "hey, I want to do extra oblivion damage," star, because that would be comically broken.

pieratsos wrote: »

therefore i am actually sacrificing something like sustain or survivability. If the dmg doesnt scale with anything then i dont have to build for dmg and i can focus on sustain and survivability.

Except, of course, for the part where Shieldbreaker isn't a conventional proc set. Red Mountain doesn't care what your opponent is wearing or how if they started the round licking toads. It's always going to perform (baddly). Maw of the Infernal doesn't care about your opponent's armor weight, he just wants to give them a hug. But, Shieldbreaker? Shieldbreaker only works if they're trying to survive using a damage shield. Go toe to toe with the vast majority of players in the game, and it does nothing. At that point you would have, literally, gotten better millage from slotting something like Alessia's Bulwark, because at least you know your opponent will be dealing damage.

pieratsos wrote: »

Thats literally the entire concept of proc sets. Let ur gear do the dmg for you and just focus on everything else.

Then you may have missed the part where nearly every other proc set in the game actually does scale with other things. Particularly champion stars. "Oh, hey, Selenes!" Yeah, that scales with Mighty. Stormfist? Oh, right, same. Illambris? Elemental Expert. Oh, and all of those scale with Master-at-Arms, mentioned before. Velidreth? Yeah, that's Mighty again, and Thaumaturgy, instead of Master-At-Arms.

pieratsos wrote: »

Its the concept of oblivion dmg at its root that is very problematic. Not the freaking conditions on how it deals that dmg. Its the fact that it deals that type of dmg. It ignores every form of defence in the game. Shieldbreaker doesnt work because it makes a strategy riskier or whatever the hell you want to call it. It works because its a stupid set that doesnt require any skill input and hardcounters an entire class/playstyle.

Actually, no, it's a pretty solid counter for one very specific, toxic, build that used to dominate in Cyrodiil. Now you see intelligent players using it sparingly, if at all, because it's actually a little risky.

pieratsos wrote: »

I am sorry but thats not strategy. Thats stupidity.

I agree, wandering around PvP with 10k health is stupid. Put some prismatic glyphs on that build.

pieratsos wrote: »

If you want a set to counter shields then it should be +X% dmg on shields.

That's shattering blows, and everyone (with a coherant PvP loadout on their stars) already runs it to some extent.

pieratsos wrote: »

Aka, actual shieldbreaker that requires skill input and having a decent build. Thats actually making a playstyle riskier. Thats actually strategy.

No, this is actually a gamble. "Will I meet an idiot who has almost no health, but hides behind their shields? Or should I slot something that's actually useful?"

With a side of, "should I run around with almost no health, and hide behind shields, or will I run across someone who gave up their offensive options specifically to make my life miserable?"

It's a choice. A fairly expensive one, given it's on the 5pc bonus for a Tel Var set.

Id actually bother to answer all ur dumb points but i lost you after the 10k health and prismatic thing. It seems like you still live in 2015 or something.

P.S. Scaling with stats and amplified with CP are two entirely different things. The fact that proc sets perform way better in no CP campaigns should be enough to tell you everything you need to know about procs and scaling. I also fail to see your point with shattering blows. It has nothing to do with what i told you.