Maulkin wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Zaan's needs a lower cooldown and lower damage so that it isn't so bursty yet remains viable in PvE

Caluurion's is telegraphed AF soooooooooo... Yeah, that's on you

Not really. The best use of Caluurion I've seen (as with most proc sets) is by a mageblade, landing a Teleport Strike from Shadowy Disguise, followed up by an Incap.

Guaranteed proc of Caluurion on melee range, where the ball spawns practically inside you and has 0 travel time. Neither telegraphed nor easy to avoid. Unless your telling me the Cloak->Ambush->Incap combo is hard to land and very telegraphed.

Daus wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Carbonised

The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.

You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.

I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.

This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?

The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.

As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.

Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.

It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.

Daus wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Carbonised

The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.

You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.

I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.

This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?

The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.

As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.

Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.

It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.

Daus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Carbonised

The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.

You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.

I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.

This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?

The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.

As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.

Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.

It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.

Stamina outperforms magicka in PvP by a huge amount. It makes sense that magicka procs are stronger.

Lol not even close. You have one single Stam spec that's crushing it in PvP, and that's the Stam Warden. Other than that the magicka counterpart is superior in every other instance. Also Nightblades seem pretty even with a slight edge to magicka in a 1v1 scenario.

Daus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Carbonised

The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.

You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.

I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.

This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?

The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.

As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.

Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.

It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.

Stamina outperforms magicka in PvP by a huge amount. It makes sense that magicka procs are stronger.

Lol not even close. You have one single Stam spec that's crushing it in PvP, and that's the Stam Warden. Other than that the magicka counterpart is superior in every other instance. Also Nightblades seem pretty even with a slight edge to magicka in a 1v1 scenario.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Carbonised

The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.

You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.

I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.

This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?

The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.

As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.

Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.

It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.

Stamina outperforms magicka in PvP by a huge amount. It makes sense that magicka procs are stronger.

Lol not even close. You have one single Stam spec that's crushing it in PvP, and that's the Stam Warden. Other than that the magicka counterpart is superior in every other instance. Also Nightblades seem pretty even with a slight edge to magicka in a 1v1 scenario.

All stamina specs have higher burst and sustained damage than any magicka spec. Magicka warden is the worst of all.

BohnT wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Carbonised

The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.

You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.

I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.

This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?

The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.

As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.

Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.

It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.

Stamina outperforms magicka in PvP by a huge amount. It makes sense that magicka procs are stronger.

Lol not even close. You have one single Stam spec that's crushing it in PvP, and that's the Stam Warden. Other than that the magicka counterpart is superior in every other instance. Also Nightblades seem pretty even with a slight edge to magicka in a 1v1 scenario.

All stamina specs have higher burst and sustained damage than any magicka spec. Magicka warden is the worst of all.

Wrong.
Magnb has higher burst potential than stamnb but due to the playstyle this doesn't gets used to its full potential as magnb doesn't need it.
Magdk has wayyyy more burst than stamdk and much more pressure
Stamplar wins vs Magplar burst wise but loses sustained damage wise
Stamsorc has less burst than magsorc but more pressure
No discussion about Stamwarden it's broken op.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Carbonised

The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.

You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.

I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.

This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?

The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.

As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.

Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.

It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.

Stamina outperforms magicka in PvP by a huge amount. It makes sense that magicka procs are stronger.

Lol not even close. You have one single Stam spec that's crushing it in PvP, and that's the Stam Warden. Other than that the magicka counterpart is superior in every other instance. Also Nightblades seem pretty even with a slight edge to magicka in a 1v1 scenario.

All stamina specs have higher burst and sustained damage than any magicka spec. Magicka warden is the worst of all.

Wrong.
Magnb has higher burst potential than stamnb but due to the playstyle this doesn't gets used to its full potential as magnb doesn't need it.
Magdk has wayyyy more burst than stamdk and much more pressure
Stamplar wins vs Magplar burst wise but loses sustained damage wise
Stamsorc has less burst than magsorc but more pressure
No discussion about Stamwarden it's broken op.

What? Powerlash?

StamDKs have access to three executes, and strong abilities like Wrecking Blow, Snipe, Hidden Blade, etc.

Both MagDK and StamDk use Leap for burst... so that's moot.

MagDK outbursts sdk by a lot,since they can run light and clutch on shields whereas stamDK nearly needs heavy. (no passives or synergy, shields are just that strong, though DK is still the worst class for a resto playstyle) Inhale, Foss, powerlash, foo is massive burst. And 15k leaps. Only problem is powerlash landing, its too telegraphed and preventable to be so easily dodged.

I would say stamDK if running a niche build can outpressure, but really just because of bleeds.

maxjapank wrote: »

The op is consistent in trying to make the game their way. Thankfully, they are not a developer.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Skoria? Of all things? If anything, offensive proc sets should work like Skoria. Like forcing people to build for it to work reliably. Skoria is only really useful if you have 3 or more dots ticking for a while instead of some high percentage left click no specific set of skillbar for it to do proc damage. High stat proc gear is totally possible with the sets you mentioned.

Also, stam is more burstier than magicka in general.

NyassaV wrote: »

If Valkyn had the same proc conditions as Grothdarr then that would warrant a change but as is it's sorta ok

TequilaFire wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

If Valkyn had the same proc conditions as Grothdarr then that would warrant a change but as is it's sorta ok

No because the proc condition on skoria isn't as bad as players say it is and the damage of skoria is much better than Grothdarr because it's burst damage and not a weak dot like Grothdarr.

The best way to show why skoria is unbalanced is DDukes Magdk video he gets a kill on an enemy player while he isn't even actively attacking him.

When i did my 1000 kill achievement in BGs with my stamplar i did the first 350 kills with a build utilising bloodspawn or slimecraw then i switched to skoria.
I did the last 650 kills in the same time versus the same players. I went straight from ∅10 kills per BG to ∅20 only from swapping bloodspawn/ slimecraw with skoria my deaths didn't even increase they went down because a dead enemy can't kill you.

Switching from support/stat buff sets to damage set I guess you would see an increase in kills.
Apple/Oranges.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Carbonised

The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.

You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.

I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.

This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?

The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.

As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.

Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.

It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.

Stamina outperforms magicka in PvP by a huge amount. It makes sense that magicka procs are stronger.

Lol not even close. You have one single Stam spec that's crushing it in PvP, and that's the Stam Warden. Other than that the magicka counterpart is superior in every other instance. Also Nightblades seem pretty even with a slight edge to magicka in a 1v1 scenario.

All stamina specs have higher burst and sustained damage than any magicka spec. Magicka warden is the worst of all.

Wrong.
Magnb has higher burst potential than stamnb but due to the playstyle this doesn't gets used to its full potential as magnb doesn't need it.
Magdk has wayyyy more burst than stamdk and much more pressure
Stamplar wins vs Magplar burst wise but loses sustained damage wise
Stamsorc has less burst than magsorc but more pressure
No discussion about Stamwarden it's broken op.

What? Powerlash?

StamDKs have access to three executes, and strong abilities like Wrecking Blow, Snipe, Hidden Blade, etc.

Both MagDK and StamDk use Leap for burst... so that's moot.

MagDK outbursts sdk by a lot,since they can run light and clutch on shields whereas stamDK nearly needs heavy. (no passives or synergy, shields are just that strong, though DK is still the worst class for a resto playstyle) Inhale, Foss, powerlash, foo is massive burst. And 15k leaps. Only problem is powerlash landing, its too telegraphed and preventable to be so easily dodged.

I would say stamDK if running a niche build can outpressure, but really just because of bleeds.

It's weird. I run Innate + Silks + Valkyn on my MagDK and I run Innate + Automaton + Selene on my StamDK.

I usually feel like my Wrecking Blow, Take Flight, Executioner combo is more powerful than my Empowering Chains, Ferocious Leap, Flaming Talons, Powerlash combo.

But you are correct- nothing holds a candle to bleed build pressure. I'm still wishing magicka based characters had something similar. (And no, Oblivion Damage isn't the same... for those of you about to say it.)

pieratsos wrote: »

We are way past the point of giving counters to procs. They just keep introducing more and more and it will always be an endless cycle. Its safe to say that the only way to change them once and for all is to make every single set dmg proc set not affect players. Then you can buff all of them make them crit or whatever for PVE and everyone is happy.