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Zaan, Caluurion and Skoria balance issues
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ZOS_MikaadminWe have recently removed a handful of rude and insulting comments from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil. Personal attacks and name calling are both against the Community Rules. Please keep this in mind as the discussion continues.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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Ulfgarde✭✭✭✭✭Caluurion can be easy to dodge if you're ranged or at a distance. At melee, it can be harder to dodge I think, but I never really had too much of a problem with it.
Zaan proc is annoying as initial burst but can be broken fairly easy. Though I agree its damage needs to be nerfed, it isn't necessarily as strong as people think it is. (I also barely even see this set in PvP?)
Skoria is quite high burst, and for me, the telegraph sometimes does not appear. Perhaps this is the only skill that could be better telegraphed, but it isn't broken by far. Maybe a small damage nerf, and we can call it there.
This is nothing like the proc meta, at all.Edited by Ulfgarde on April 23, 2018 2:00PMVery athletic eso player
PC EU1 -
sharquez✭✭✭✭✭
✭If ya stopped building you characters like glass cannons you'd realize that these sets are defensible in 1v1 situations.5 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Skoria was already severely nerfed in the past and if you can't dodge it you deserve to get hit.
I sounds like a freight train coming in.Edited by TequilaFire on April 23, 2018 2:16PM1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Skoria was already severely nerfed in the past and if you can't dodge it you deserve to get hit.
Skoria is undodgeable it doesn't matter if you dodge or not you will be hit
Also skoria got a mix of buffs and nerfs over the years5 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Skoria was already severely nerfed in the past and if you can't dodge it you deserve to get hit.
Skoria is undodgeable it doesn't matter if you dodge or not you will be hit
Also skoria got a mix of buffs and nerfs over the years
How to avoid Skoria: don't get DoTs on you.
The only thing that can truly proc Skoria without "counterplay" is channeled ranged attacks, everything else (DoT applications included) can be dodged, leading to no Skoria procs for the opponent.Edited by DDuke on April 23, 2018 2:24PM2 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Skoria was already severely nerfed in the past and if you can't dodge it you deserve to get hit.
Skoria is undodgeable it doesn't matter if you dodge or not you will be hit
Also skoria got a mix of buffs and nerfs over the years
Even if it hits It rarely kills me, I dunno I block and roll with good success.
I know it got several adjustment, I was there.
Nerfing Skoria would just be one more Templar nerf.2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Skoria was already severely nerfed in the past and if you can't dodge it you deserve to get hit.
Skoria is undodgeable it doesn't matter if you dodge or not you will be hit
Also skoria got a mix of buffs and nerfs over the years
How to avoid Skoria: don't get DoTs on you.
The only thing that can truly proc Skoria without "counterplay" is channeled ranged attacks, everything else (DoTs included) can be dodged, leading to no Skoria procs for the opponent.
That's no counterplay and you know that. Even a rollerblade can get filled up with dots there is always a gap between the dodgerolls and once the dot is on you it'll stay there.
There might be one niche build where this doesn't work but one specific class tied build doesn't balance a set.
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lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭
well skoria does have a indicator just not visual just really loud noise that can be heard over anything.Skoria, first of all, needs a visual indicator around your feet like the Meteor ultie. Just different colour perhaps. They are both undodgeable and I can't see why a 200 cost ultie warns the target that he's about to be hit, but a set that procs every 5" does not. Other proc sets, like Selene or Veli give you a better visual and audio warning.
Currently Skoria only has a sound effect, which is so faint that you can't possibly hear it in heavy combat. You need adequate warning that you're about to get hit by a high damage proc set. You will then at least be able to block or shield it.
I say that as a Skoria user myself on like 3 different builds.
zaan idk ive never been hit more than 3k with it
DC PC NA
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AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
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magsorc0 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭LOL my comment got removed because I quoted the other guy?? xD
Again I'd propose to make Skoria either dodeable (how many times I got hit in dodgeroll and take the full damage - which leads into death) or make it a ground based meteor.
Regarding Caluurion's, the only problem I see is that its activation is timeable because the only proc condition is doing crit damage. Introduce a percetage chance to proc it, and people can't front bar it that easily to time with e.g. merciless or frags.
Voila, Problems solved0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭lucky_Sage wrote: »
well skoria does have a indicator just not visual just really loud noise that can be heard over anything.Skoria, first of all, needs a visual indicator around your feet like the Meteor ultie. Just different colour perhaps. They are both undodgeable and I can't see why a 200 cost ultie warns the target that he's about to be hit, but a set that procs every 5" does not. Other proc sets, like Selene or Veli give you a better visual and audio warning.
Currently Skoria only has a sound effect, which is so faint that you can't possibly hear it in heavy combat. You need adequate warning that you're about to get hit by a high damage proc set. You will then at least be able to block or shield it.
I say that as a Skoria user myself on like 3 different builds.
zaan idk ive never been hit more than 3k with it
I strongly disagree on "can be heard over everything". It certainly can't. There's a lot louder effects in-game.
Visual indicators are always better received anyway. You can track a lot more things with your eyes than your ears and can prioritise the importance of visual cues better. If you somehow didn't hear a Selene proc (speaking of effects louder than Skoria), could you possibly miss the visual cue to gtfo of the red area? Zaan is barely audible, but do you ever miss the giant red flame-beam on your screen?
Imagine how toxic skills like Power of the Light or Haunting Curse would be if they had only sound and no visual indicators on your body. There's no good argument against having a visual queue for Skoria.
Edited by Maulkin on April 23, 2018 3:09PMEU | PC | AD2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sound cues should never be your only indicator for a high damage ability. Not when sound cuts do happen in Cyrodiil or when the sound isn’t prominent to begin with. Visual cues are better, although sometimes they don’t render either. Best would be a stable environment without lags, but that’s a wish we all share.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.5 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Zaan's needs a lower cooldown and lower damage so that it isn't so bursty yet remains viable in PvE
Caluurion's is telegraphed AF soooooooooo... Yeah, that's on you
Not really. The best use of Caluurion I've seen (as with most proc sets) is by a mageblade, landing a Teleport Strike from Shadowy Disguise, followed up by an Incap.
Guaranteed proc of Caluurion on melee range, where the ball spawns practically inside you and has 0 travel time. Neither telegraphed nor easy to avoid. Unless your telling me the Cloak->Ambush->Incap combo is hard to land and very telegraphed.EU | PC | AD2 -
Capt_Morgan✭✭✭From SotH till HotR we had a more or less prelevant Proc meta.
With sets like Viper, widowmaker, selene, red mountain, velidreth you could create builds with pathetic stats (35k health, 25k stamina, 2.6k wpn damage etc.) that could inflict massive amounts of burst with a single light attack or one skill that hits like a wet noodle.
All those sets have been nerfed to be Dots or have a delay + easy counterplay by simply walking out of their AoE.
And this is how every proc set should be balanced:
It doesn't cost the wearer additional resources to get the damage so the target shouldn't be forced to use resources or if he doesn't take stupid amounts of damage.
The 3 sets mentioned above however didn't get this treatment.
Skoria is delayed yes, but it is still a fire and forget projectile, it will always hit the target and deal it's damage which can only be reduced by blocking or cloaking, purge.
However only cloak is a viable counter.
You can purge a maximum of 5 debuffs before skoria hits you during a fight you'll have between 10-14 Debuffs on you which makes removing skoria gamble.
Blocking isn't good counterplay aswell, it costs stamina and you still take damage while your enemy didn't spend any resources on that damage.
Change this set to work like Selene. A ground targeted AoE that inflicts it's damage after 1 second.
For everyone crying it will make skoria useless, see how many players still use selene it's far from useless.
Zaan: This abomination of a set should have never made it into the game. A set that provides more damage than a purely damage focused ultimate (soul assault) is wrong as well as the fact that a player that isn't defending himself will die to one set of the enemy.
Also all available counterplay except for cloak is a joke. Through block you still eat massive amounts of damage, Running away 10m isn't an option in a game where anyone with a functioning brain can stay in a 10m radius to an enemy player with ease.
This set has to be nerfed drastically:
Change it to an ground based 7m fire beam that doesn't move at all meaning a player is able to walk out of the thing to stop all damage without giving the wearer the opportunity to easily remove this counterplay with gapclosers or own movement.
Caluurion’s Legacy: Viper was a pretty bad set so why not make a set that has double the tooltip that also applies either a 1k dot, 8% more damage taken, major defile or 15% less damage dealt and a 2.5x longer cooldown that will surely be balanced.
There a small visual cue to show the proc which is even hard to see in 1v1, the projectile itself travels really fast and is hard to see. In any situation were more than 2 people are involved it's almost impossible to see the proc at all or countering it.
You can dodge or block the projectile but due to the difficulties involved with tracking the proc you have to get really lucky to dodge or block in the right moment and if you don't you take between 5-7k burst damage which is more than most people hit with their ultimates.
Change the set to deal dot damage over 6 seconds and completely get rid of the stupid status effects which are applied on top.
Caluurions moves about as fast as walking speed. Hits for the equivalent of a force pulse and you are so wrong it isn't even funny about the dodging. Dodging in this game works that if you dodge at ANYTIME that a projectile is traveling it will count as dodged. It is so slow it can even be dodged in melee range if procced from a stun like flame reach from 1m away. And guess what, if you do dodge it you've just negated the ENTIRE 5th piece bonus of your opponent and are now at a HUGE advantage for the rest of that fight like unreal potentially 500 wep spell dmg advantage and all it cost you was a dodge roll.
Zaans is annoying but the counter play is the fact that it starts out as a wet noodle and gives you like 3 seconds to do something before it starts doing real dmg. You have all the time in the world to get away, just have to take it more seriously and actually prioritize counter play against it, if no purge then you can root/snare the user and dodge roll the opposite way.
Skoria is just block, even if you don't block its not enough damage to cry about, it's like one extra GCD attack.
I heartily disagree with this write up. These sets are no way close to what viper was. Only thing even close is Zaan and that is in no way an instant up front unavoidable burst that viper was. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
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Capt_Morgan✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »@Carbonised
The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.
You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.
I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.
This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?
The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.
As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.
Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.
It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.
Probably because viper was instantly applied at 100% chance and only visual cue was small green mist on the user's chest. Caluurions is the slowest traveling projectile in the game with an Audio cue and GIANT GLOWING ORBS above your oppenents shoulder.3 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Capt_Morgan wrote: »
Probably because viper was instantly applied at 100% chance and only visual cue was small green mist on the user's chest. Caluurions is the slowest traveling projectile in the game with an Audio cue and GIANT GLOWING ORBS above your oppenents shoulder.
And yet it is still a guaranteed and unavoidable proc in certain situations, and it can hit for more than twice as much as viper.Edited by Rianai on April 23, 2018 3:32PM2 -
Capt_Morgan✭✭✭Capt_Morgan wrote: »
Probably because viper was instantly applied at 100% chance and only visual cue was small green mist on the user's chest. Caluurions is the slowest traveling projectile in the game with an Audio cue and GIANT GLOWING ORBS above your oppenents shoulder.
And yet it is still a guaranteed and unavoidable proc in certain situations, and it can hit for more than twice as much as viper.
There is nothing guaranteed about it though. It is possible to break free and dodge roll from a concealed weapon out of cloak stun to dodge a merciless arrow proc. Caluurions has a short delay before firing and travels slower than merciless and is as such even easier to dodge. And even if you do get hit from the opener that is only one proc, the next will come over 10 seconds later and this time you won't be stunned.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Procs are good. They allow players to change up and be rewarded for other playstyles. I would remove the RNG from them, and instead have it be more numbers based. i.e. every 25 dot ticks skoria drops. Or every 10th light attacks in melee range procs zaan. (10s CD before it counts again post proc) But that aside, all three are OK.
Skoria requires dots, which aren't incredibly strong on most, only a few classes, stamplar/sorc and the occasional NB an run full pressure with bleed and in built in burst to finish of, the rest have quite weak dots.
Zaan can be dealt with easily, since its melee, cloak/purge/streakable, and if it is dealt with, its out of action for around 20s. If it works properly with LOS then it is all good imo. On my DK I mist it and the damage is like 10k max over 6s. Small pain in BGs, where damage is higher and evading is more painful overall. (Objectives etc)
Caluurion is eh ST damage, highish cooldown, quite telegraphed. Not my cup of tea. Its the least playstyle based though, just relying on crit.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is no travel time in melee range. Same as old Selene, just with even more dmg. Cooldown is pretty much irrelevant, if the opener kills the target. Aside from this, why should i be forced to burn a quite significant amout of resources, just to avoid free dmg that hits harder than ults, which have even longer "cd" in most cases?1 -
Extinct_Solo_Player✭✭✭✭✭Zaan goes through collision too which needs to be fixed because having a beam go through a wall is broken.0 -
Killset✭✭✭✭
Caluurions, Zaan, and Skoria are ridiculously strong. Caluurions tool tips for 21-24k on Sorc and 18kish on my MagDK. Zaan is so strong stamina toons use it to great effect in BGs. If these were stamina sets the forums would be lit up with nerf threads. I thought the ESO community as a whole came to the consensus that proc sets were bad? Is this not the case anymore? Or was it only stamina proc sets.Carbonised wrote: »I see you're still struggling with having to deal with a delayed burst single target low proc chance non-crit monster set with a lengthy cooldown (Zaan).
Your ineptitude of dealing with simple monster sets aside, your claim that proc sets in general "cost their wearers no resources" is simply ludicrous, considering the 5-set bonus to sustain or stat boosters, or 2-set bonus to sustain or damage, that you have to forego to even use these sets.
Everyone who frequents these forums know of your hatred for anything that remotely resembles a proc set and your continuing crusade against them, and quite frankly your continuing posts on the matter bring nothing new to the table, you just keep repeating the same ludicrous "suggestions" that you try and pass off as "balanced".
You are talking about opportunity costs and there is no damage stat providing set that can keep up with the burst these sets provide. Who cares about sustain when your main damage can be dealt with LA also you don't lose much sustain as procs free up your mundus and jewelry enchants as you don't need to stack into damage as procs don't scale very well.
Well feel free to hit me up in game for a duel i'll slot Zaan and you show me how you'll defend right? The @name can be found on your ignore list.
And yes i want every offensive proc set and most defensive procs to die because they completely contradict skill based gameplay.
Also my suggestions are balanced more so than most other peoples proposals are who play one class and one class alone or want to keep their training wheels because it's surely hard to learn to play without these.
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TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What it boils down to is stamina wanting revenge on magicka based sets as usual.0 -
Asgari✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I dont get why some are so unhappy with zaan? by the end of the dmg tick it does at most 4k .. ive used it plenty in pvp and never seen some of the ticks people claim it does. on avg most i see at the end is 3.5k on some random target. generally it is doing 2-2.5k ticks which is not much with its down time and how close you have to be to the target.Formerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
Princess Asgari | Sorc
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Killset✭✭✭✭
I don’t think it’s fine as is. Not even close. Everybody I play with agrees these sets are too strong.Carbonised wrote: »@Carbonised
The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.
You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.
I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.
This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?
The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.
As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.
Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »@Carbonised
The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.
You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.
I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.
This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?
The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.
As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.
Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.
It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.
Stamina outperforms magicka in PvP by a huge amount. It makes sense that magicka procs are stronger.Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 23, 2018 6:07PM1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »@Carbonised
The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.
You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.
I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.
This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?
The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.
As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.
Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.
It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.
Stamina outperforms magicka in PvP by a huge amount. It makes sense that magicka procs are stronger.
The two overperfoming stamspecs do the rest is pretty balanced with Stamdk being the weakest spec overall then comes magwarden followed by the other specs which are all more or less balanced0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »@Carbonised
The high damage proc sets are a relatively recent addition, they certainly were not in the game when it was still Veteran Ranks instead of CP. Also, telling someone to suck it up because the sets aren’t going away isn’t very helpful. @BohnT certainly isn’t the only thinking that armour shouldn’t do that much damage.
You hardly ever see Zaan used in PvP. OP is trying to make a huge problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Even very experienced players such as Joy_Division have mentioned how they are unimpressed by Zaan in PvP.
I mentioned several reasons why Zaan isn't a big deal, it's more or less melee ranged, has a low proc chance that basically requires you to spam light attacks 5 times in average to proc it, it doesn't crit, it has to build up over a long time to be a real threat, it's single target and if the beam is broken/cleansed/cloaked, it goes on a very lengthy cooldown. Plus of course the beam can be broken by anyone with a modicum of self-awareness. All this needs to be taken into consideration when calculating the appropriate damage as well.
This is Zaan, Skoria is even less of a problem, the overall damage is easy to deal with in numerous ways, and it only works well on a DoT build that is already plagued by the many, many drawbacks of being DoT based. We already have a Skoria that functions as a delayed proc burst, it's called Nerien'eth. Who last saw one of those being used in PvP?
The "armor doing the damage for them" argument always pops up in these discussions, especially from the die-hard pvp players. The armor is doing no more or no less damage than proc'ing clever alchemist before ganking someone back when that was possible, or proc'ing 300 spell damage on your armor. Some, again pretty much only the pvp hardcore environment, wish to see all proc sets nerfed into the ground and beyond, but I can tell you that a game where the only set bonuses that were available was flat stat enhancers is a very boring game design indeed.
As I have already mentioned, by quoting the OP outright on this, his agenda is not to try and balance anything, he simply rages against proc sets until they are either removed from the game or nerfed into uselessnes. And that isn't very likely to happen any time soon.
Also, while there is a very die-hard vocal minority that keeps harping on this (OP is among those), the times it has been polled or voted on, the overwhelming majority think it's fine as it is.
It's funny how there was so much outrage when Viper's Sting (7800 damage every 6 seconds), and Selene (11.6k damage) were the main damaging proc sets, but when we get even stronger magicka variants it's all of a sudden balanced. Gotta love the hypocrisy. They're all bad, and they're crutches for bad players.
Stamina outperforms magicka in PvP by a huge amount. It makes sense that magicka procs are stronger.
Tbf, that was last patch. With the light attack changes and the nerf of physical penetration sets, we don't know how classes line up yet.EU | PC | AD0
