Why is DragonKnight still the only class with just 2 stamina costing morphs?

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Out of all the classes only DragonKnight has 2 stamina morphs and one of them, Noxious Breath is extremely weak. Thats right. Only 2 skills and one of them is half usefull in PvE

@ZOS
Can you buff Noxious Breath?
Can you add a third stamina costing morph just like every other class has?
Do you find stamDK overperforming with the only 2 stamina costing skills you have given us?
Do you find stamDK a class that has many viable options at its disposal?
Do you have a reason to ignore once again stamDK?

PS.
Wrobel: We decided to upgrade the tools in stamDKs arsenal and so we are giving Noxious Breath the addirtonal effect of Major Breach, so that stamDKs cannot utilize it. Their groups will surely appreciete it tho.
StamDKs real stenthg lies in providing their groups with Igneous weapons, and their groups enemies with Maj Frac/Breach

Baz · April 2018

Templar has 3 skills + 1 clunky ult
Sorc has 2 skills + 0 ult (+ maybe Dark Deal)

Every class use both magicka & stamina, this is why the game is designed for. I know that StamDK is not in a very good spot atm PvP wise. But a well-played StamDK is really, really annoying to fight against.

Considering PvE, they were at the top since Morrowind during the HA meta. Now this meta is ended & NB shine. It's like every games, witch patches, classes shines & drops.. A class can't be over the top
StamDDs are mostly based on weapon skills in PvE btw.
I played DK during 3 patches, then switch to NB. Next patch, if we discover that Warden (for example) become the top dog dps, I will switch to it. PvE is a team effort, & every team need support, healer, etc (like soccer, there is keeper, striker, defender, etc.)

Btw, I am a bit afraid about stamDK in PvE for Summerset with damages reduction on DW HA

Maybe the extra sustain passive they add will help to have a LA rotation ?

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

@Baz
I encourage you to go through all morphs from all classes and you will see that DK is the only class with 2 Stamina Costing morphs. And one of them, noxious breath is very weak.

Xuhora · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Baz
I encourage you to go through all morphs from all classes and you will see that DK is the only class with 2 Stamina Costing morphs. And one of them, noxious breath is very weak.

Thats the thing.... its very weak in PVP.. Allthou in PVE its still pretty high up the DPS ranking and it effects multiple Targets... If you fix it for PVP, the PVE stamDK suffers a huge throwback

Rohamad_Ali · April 2018

Buff StamDK !

Banana · April 2018

I prefer magicka

Baz · April 2018

Lol ok it seems you add Dark Exchange in your statement..
I do not really understand your topic "pls give us another stamina cost skill" as stamDK do not have a square in their bars in PvE.

Venomous Claw is probably the strongest ST DoT in the game who cost like 900 stam.
Noxious Breath is fine atm considering it's a AoE Dot + AoE Major Fracture. Maybe it can deserve a +8/10% damage buff. Maybe.

Asardes · April 2018

Stamina Sorcerer only has Hurricane so it's far more reliant on other weapon abilities, such as Shrouded Daggers / Rapid Strikes. One could argue that Stamina DK doesn't have a spammable, but that is no issue since the rotation is mostly about DoTs, and heavy attacks work as a spammable of sorts, with the bonus from Molten Armaments.

RoyJade · April 2018

The number of stamina costing skill is not the important part. It's the number of useable skill and passive along with the synergy between these and other generic useable skills. Giving a stamina costing flame of oblivion or igneous weapons (the two most probable as far as I know ZOS, I' afraid) would do nothing good.

No, stamDK need something else. Noxious breath could see a buff (poison damage increase on target?). FoO should use physical penetration if it's higher than spell pen. World in ruin can be changed to all attack, or at least all aoe and dots. Chocking talons may deal poison damage, but it won't be a huge change. And finally, igneous weapons should be changed to venomous weapons and either add a poison dot for 10 second with 10 second cooldown per target (avoiding the axe bleed overlapping problem) for the caster, or transform all physical damage the caster does to poison damage.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2018

Your complaint is that Noxious's AoE Major Breach is useless because it's not the only possible source of MB renders it somehow useless?

Can the other classes get an Ult that essentially negates incoming damage while also negating the enemies armor? Sounds pretty stam friendly to me.

If you're just arguing skill cost, which DK skill would you propose be changed (that would likely lead to it becoming OP)?

Supernatural · April 2018

Cauterize could be changed into a stamina morph which deals poison damage and also provides major savagery and then remove major prophecy on the base morph and have FoO give the major prophecy buff. That will give the stam dk some extra burst in solo PvE (like VMA) and PvP, where the class really suffers. Considering cauterize at its current state is pretty much useless, that is something that could be done.

Yamenstein · April 2018

Yeah they should add more stamina morphs, then you can have heaps to pick from and not know what to slot. Maybe you can also get some stamina sustain issues as well

Yamenstein · April 2018

Supernatural wrote: »

Cauterize could be changed into a stamina morph which deals poison damage and also provides major savagery and then remove major prophecy on the base morph and have FoO give the major prophecy buff. That will give the stam dk some extra burst in solo PvE (like VMA) and PvP, where the class really suffers. Considering cauterize at its current state is pretty much useless, that is something that could be done.

One less skill for DK healers. So you'll have to suggest something else, can't shaft one play style for another.

Yamenstein · April 2018

Out of curiosity. What skills do you stamDK players use currently, and which ones would you remove if you had more stamina options from the DK skill lines.

Enslaved · April 2018

sDK is a class with only 2 stamina class skills, and that is correct.
Ultimates we use are ok for stamina, all 3 can be used - leap, corrosive armor and any of two morphs of standard, depending on content.

I for once agree with OP that there might be a skill with stamina morph added to sDK arsenal. I cannot suggest what skill should be changed, only the list of skills that should not be changed into stamina.

Petrify. Its fine, no need to change it to stamina.
Volatile/hardened armor - same as petrify, fine skill that need no changes
wings - Only thing I would change here is to make it 10-115% cheaper. with new patch we also get snare removal, and I hope, at least 2 sec of snare immunity
chains - fine as they are now. For stamina type of these, there will be new FG skill
flames of oblivion - fine as they are now, not expensive and no need for stam morph
dragon blood - fine at this point, maybe it cost could be a bit lower
inhale - no need to convert it to stamina, also what would be the point
igneous shield - would be mighty stupid to convert to stamina, as it is skill that many of us use to get that 990 stamina anyways lol

ascan7 · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Can you add a third stamina costing morph just like every other class has?

What do you suggest? Poison whip? Physical stone fist?

Enslaved · April 2018

ascan7 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Can you add a third stamina costing morph just like every other class has?

What do you suggest? Poison whip? Physical stone fist?

tbh, poison whip sounds like fun. If they ever give us this, it could make target vulnerable to poison for the next 3-5 seconds.
And stone fist is kinda physical thingy lol. Would be fire fist if not made of freaking stone.

The_Protagonist · April 2018

ascan7 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Can you add a third stamina costing morph just like every other class has?

What do you suggest? Poison whip? Physical stone fist?

Poison whip would be very nice.

ZOS_Mika · April 2018

We have recently removed some unnecessary and insulting comments from this thread. Please keep all discussion civil and constructive. While it is fine to disagree, personal attacks are inappropriate. Thank you for your understanding.

Supernatural · April 2018

Yamenstein wrote: »

Supernatural wrote: »

Cauterize could be changed into a stamina morph which deals poison damage and also provides major savagery and then remove major prophecy on the base morph and have FoO give the major prophecy buff. That will give the stam dk some extra burst in solo PvE (like VMA) and PvP, where the class really suffers. Considering cauterize at its current state is pretty much useless, that is something that could be done.

One less skill for DK healers. So you'll have to suggest something else, can't shaft one play style for another.

Are dragonknight healers a thing?

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

I would ask for a CC on Noxious Breath.
Just like terror works for NB, Noxious Breath should make enemies run with toxic flames on them.
Or stamina Talons
Or stamina Stonefist
Or an improved stamina Igneous(caustic) Weapons

Ulfgarde · April 2018

You might only have 2 stamina costing skills, but you still have a ton of utility as an stamDK. Consider igneous, volatile armor, green dragon blood, fossilize, etc. All very much viable and useful to a stamDK depending on how you play it.

The problem is more that you lack implicit sustain in your class, with a sustain passive that encourages bad ulti usage. You also do not have enough damage in general to take down targets as you would on other classes. Instead, you focus on wearing down single enemies over time with DoTs and weaved skills (heavy attack + skill + bash), assuming you're 2h/1h&s. StamDK has enough CC and implicit DoT pressure to keep people on the defensive. What they lack is raw damage and burst potential, and in open world they can be quite challenging to play sometimes.

Next patch will buff magDK's sustain fairly well, but not as well for stamDK's. I don't get the stam whip unless it has a specific mechanic attached to it. Heroic slash / Puncture are strong enough abilities. Cauterize is a skill I would like to see use for stamDKs; either that or buff FoO.

Vercingetorix · April 2018

Inhale:
- 1 magicka morph, the current Draw Essence
- 1 stamina morph that leaves a poison DoT effect for a short time on each enemy hit; deals poison damage

Flame Whip:
- 1 magicka morph, the current Flame Lash
- 1 stamina morph that deals poison damage; deals increased damage if target is affected by Poisoned status

Those IMO are the only one that could truly benefit from a morph change since their alternative morph currently is underused. Keep in mind not everything needs to have a stamina morph - being able to draw from your magicka reserves to keep your stamina reasonably topped off for damage is very helpful.

venomsky · April 2018

Why flames of oblivion critical damage buff works only on 1 bar even after casting it?wroobbeeeeelllll

iceman784 · April 2018

Supernatural wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Supernatural wrote: »

Cauterize could be changed into a stamina morph which deals poison damage and also provides major savagery and then remove major prophecy on the base morph and have FoO give the major prophecy buff. That will give the stam dk some extra burst in solo PvE (like VMA) and PvP, where the class really suffers. Considering cauterize at its current state is pretty much useless, that is something that could be done.

One less skill for DK healers. So you'll have to suggest something else, can't shaft one play style for another.

Are dragonknight healers a thing?

Yeah. Haven't you heard of ESO Daily

Durham · April 2018

venomsky wrote: »

Why flames of oblivion critical damage buff works only on 1 bar even after casting it?wroobbeeeeelllll

This would help imo 15 secs of crit increase and go across both bars ...would be helpful in the class...
Armor buff also needs to be further reduced in cost or something else added...
Ingenious Shields needs rework a > 1k shield with extra major mending from 3 secs to 5 secs costing 4k magicka is put of hand..

Durham · April 2018

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Inhale:
- 1 magicka morph, the current Draw Essence
- 1 stamina morph that leaves a poison DoT effect for a short time on each enemy hit; deals poison damage

Flame Whip:
- 1 magicka morph, the current Flame Lash
- 1 stamina morph that deals poison damage; deals increased damage if target is affected by Poisoned status

Those IMO are the only one that could truly benefit from a morph change since their alternative morph currently is underused. Keep in mind not everything needs to have a stamina morph - being able to draw from your magicka reserves to keep your stamina reasonably topped off for damage is very helpful.

Nice suggestions

Kanar · April 2018

- Standard: deal poison or flame damage based on whatever stat pool is higher
- FoO: poison damage would be nice but I don't want a skill named PoO
- Stonefist/stone giant: comon man this has to do physical damage, just look at the name. Make it a stamina morph with better secondary effect than minor resolve; also increase base damage but remove the on KD damage. This would then be a decent skill for bow/bow.
- igneous weapons: add an additional effect like poison dot on the weapon, LA damage buff or something.

Ofc poison whip would be nice too. In general I think every skill should have 1 or 2 stam versions, would open up a lot of variety. Each skill could have 4 morphs.

Asgari · April 2018

The problem is mDK uses almost all of the mag skills available. Stamina dk doesnt need more stam skills from the class and if it were to take something it would hurt mDK.

Stam dk could use maybe a stam version of stone fist, but no way should it take a morph of whip or inhale.

Riggsy · April 2018

Yamenstein wrote: »

Out of curiosity. What skills do you stamDK players use currently, and which ones would you remove if you had more stamina options from the DK skill lines.

I PVP sDK, I only use: Volatile Armor, Igneous Shield, and Ferocious Leap. All 3 are mag abilities. I know they won't change Leap back to physical damage and for passive reasons Shield doesn't make sense as a stam ability. Not really sure what I'd change but the class feels really generic when only 3 abilities of 12 are class based. I don't necessarily need another stam ability (would be nice), but retooling the ones we have to be more effective in PVP might make them more enticing, Stam wings is a good idea, and anything that would increase ultimate regen would be welcomed.

Yamenstein · April 2018

Supernatural wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Supernatural wrote: »

Cauterize could be changed into a stamina morph which deals poison damage and also provides major savagery and then remove major prophecy on the base morph and have FoO give the major prophecy buff. That will give the stam dk some extra burst in solo PvE (like VMA) and PvP, where the class really suffers. Considering cauterize at its current state is pretty much useless, that is something that could be done.

One less skill for DK healers. So you'll have to suggest something else, can't shaft one play style for another.

Are dragonknight healers a thing?

Doesn't matter if it's a "thing". I heal with my magDK. It is fun and different to other healers. If it's not a thing it should be one, but removing skills won't help that goal. Skills need to be flexible to fit multiple roles when required, not all of them and not all at once.

Maybe instead of changing morphs and getting rid of build ideas from one group of players just other suit another, they should add skills or morphs so you can make up for a lack of skills.

But some of us don't care for that. For some reason having class skills be able to do everything is more important. Which is why I think it shouldn't matter if the DK only has two stamina morphs for skills. With that said cauterize being changed doesn't matter to me, because as stated before new skills and morphs might mean we don't need to use! I just don't like the idea that people are happy to have skills changed so it works for them and doesn't consider other peoples playstyles.