Subversus wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

if you fail to hit 9/10 incaps it's your fault. you ac it and no one will avoid it wiht block or dodge, that single miss is due to passive Evasion but a good nb will always hit you.
Summoning @Subversus to tell People which spec is currently dominating everything (small hint it's stamnb)
Stamnb is the only class with enough burst skills to don't care about delayed burst skills.
Incap into will is 20k damage without LA weaving who cares if i had another delayed burst skill that guy is dead as the following 5 seconds every SA will hit harder than that incap also he has defile on him.

i'm sure incap is on par with DBoS when every nb is running incap including magnbs why aren't they running dbos when it's just as good or even better as you say? Because it's not with incap you can kill an enemy in 2 gcds and that's what makes a class which can disengage at will too strong. A delayed skill wouldn't even be needed most of the time you end mayn of your fights in few gcds after you leave cloak there wouldn't even be time to wait for the delayed burst to happen.

LOL... Hitting Incap 9/10 times? This tells me everything I need to know about you. You are a tourist on the class. As I have stated before you rolled a Nightblade and immediately ran to the forums crying the class needs buffed. You dueled your buddy against his Nightblade then decided the class needed nerfed. Off to the forums you go. I’m not making this up. These were your own posts.

Incap is better single target then DBoS. As it should be for SINGLE target. DBoS is better against groups and in a group. Period. I know every trick for landing Incap and I assure you with shuffle, random roll dodges, lag, and people block canceling skills lightning fast, you are not anywhere near 9/10 Incaps landing.

You invent scenarios to support your argument and exaggerate to promote your agenda.

I'm not a tourist, i just like to see everything rather than others who just stick to NB and nothing else.
I rolled my nb in the pre beta and not later when NB got buffs.
I decided the class needs nerf in my eyes after playing every other spec in the class and then returning to stamnb. When i played stamnb only like you do i thought it was weak but it's not.

What does it help that Dbos is better against groups when a NB can fight groups much better with Incap one by one. If you go full Rambo i know why you think stamnb is weak you try to force something that will not work because you are in a disadvantage.

You don't know every Trick if you don't hit atleast 8/10 incaps. You react to your enemy because he can't react to your incap if you AC it. The only reason your incap should miss is if you get unlucky with shuffle every other miss is a L2p issue on your side.

Ahhh. We are down to 8/10 now. Progress. Or maybe this is another completely fabricated number. Much like the time you claimed you killed 3 people in 10 seconds, with your Incap showing on every one of their recaps. I’ll clue you in on some things . If someone block cancels a skill at the same time I am Incapping. Blocked. If someone roll dodges the same time I AC cancel Incap. Dodged. Hell, I inadvertently block Incap all the time on my MagDK and Magplar, just from block canceling skills. This is the reality of it. And it happens with frustrating regularity. The only way to somewhat reliably land Incap is to Fear first, which renders the CC from Incap null and void.

I honestly don’t know what your getting at here. You say NB has too much burst? You obviously haven’t played against a good Stam Warden. If you are complaining about getting ganked then channel your uninformed and completely biased energy towards Focus Aim.

Stamden burst is not even close to stamblade burst. What does stamden have lmfaoooo, sub assault? Wrecking blow? Lol you’re full of bs. Incap is broken. If it wasn’t I wouldn’t use it on my MAGICKA nightblade over like 4 other possible ultimates.

Oh sweet! BohnT’s back up. WTF are you even talking about? Sub assault hitting in the same GCD as DBoS then Reverse Slice are about as nasty as it comes and this comes on a class with more group utility and great defensive options. As I’ve said before MagNB is top of the food chain 1v1 right now but gear sets and Merciless Resolve are as much to blame as anything. What I don’t want to see happen is StamNB get watered down into a class that really doesn’t bring anything to the PvP table anymore. Lmfaooo all you want but incap needs to stay as is.

So you’re saying that stamden has better burst than nb because of dawnbreaker? Did you really think this through?

Sub assault + 125 ult ability + finisher

Relentless + 75 ult ability + finisher

So basically, sub assault has a lower tooltip than relentless, dawnbreaker is more expensive than incap (and usually has a lower tooltip) but apparently stamden burst wins? Ok now I really don’t get it.

Stamden burst is telegraphed and easy to avoid. Outside their 125 ult burst window they do jack *** to you (especially if they run wrecking blow LOL), and if you’re smart you know how to play around that. The thing that makes stamden overpowered is not the burst, it is the passives. Burst is inferior to stamblade period.

And stamwarden gets like way too much healing and completely negates ranged builds

Also stamwarden doesn't kill you out of the dark.
A stamwarden has a big telegraph which tells you:
Beware i will try to kill you in exactly 3 seconds if you're ready or not. But stamnb pulls even higher burst without any cue you just eat lots of burst out of nowhere.
And as Subversuss already said a stamina warden either kills you in one go or he can start spamming dizzying swing and giving you easy counterplay while he wastes resources and time. Stamnb however puts out even more pressure after it's burst rota which is insane and way too strong especially with this much burst damage up front

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

if you fail to hit 9/10 incaps it's your fault. you ac it and no one will avoid it wiht block or dodge, that single miss is due to passive Evasion but a good nb will always hit you.
Summoning @Subversus to tell People which spec is currently dominating everything (small hint it's stamnb)
Stamnb is the only class with enough burst skills to don't care about delayed burst skills.
Incap into will is 20k damage without LA weaving who cares if i had another delayed burst skill that guy is dead as the following 5 seconds every SA will hit harder than that incap also he has defile on him.

i'm sure incap is on par with DBoS when every nb is running incap including magnbs why aren't they running dbos when it's just as good or even better as you say? Because it's not with incap you can kill an enemy in 2 gcds and that's what makes a class which can disengage at will too strong. A delayed skill wouldn't even be needed most of the time you end mayn of your fights in few gcds after you leave cloak there wouldn't even be time to wait for the delayed burst to happen.

LOL... Hitting Incap 9/10 times? This tells me everything I need to know about you. You are a tourist on the class. As I have stated before you rolled a Nightblade and immediately ran to the forums crying the class needs buffed. You dueled your buddy against his Nightblade then decided the class needed nerfed. Off to the forums you go. I’m not making this up. These were your own posts.

Incap is better single target then DBoS. As it should be for SINGLE target. DBoS is better against groups and in a group. Period. I know every trick for landing Incap and I assure you with shuffle, random roll dodges, lag, and people block canceling skills lightning fast, you are not anywhere near 9/10 Incaps landing.

You invent scenarios to support your argument and exaggerate to promote your agenda.

I'm not a tourist, i just like to see everything rather than others who just stick to NB and nothing else.
I rolled my nb in the pre beta and not later when NB got buffs.
I decided the class needs nerf in my eyes after playing every other spec in the class and then returning to stamnb. When i played stamnb only like you do i thought it was weak but it's not.

What does it help that Dbos is better against groups when a NB can fight groups much better with Incap one by one. If you go full Rambo i know why you think stamnb is weak you try to force something that will not work because you are in a disadvantage.

You don't know every Trick if you don't hit atleast 8/10 incaps. You react to your enemy because he can't react to your incap if you AC it. The only reason your incap should miss is if you get unlucky with shuffle every other miss is a L2p issue on your side.

Ahhh. We are down to 8/10 now. Progress. Or maybe this is another completely fabricated number. Much like the time you claimed you killed 3 people in 10 seconds, with your Incap showing on every one of their recaps. I’ll clue you in on some things . If someone block cancels a skill at the same time I am Incapping. Blocked. If someone roll dodges the same time I AC cancel Incap. Dodged. Hell, I inadvertently block Incap all the time on my MagDK and Magplar, just from block canceling skills. This is the reality of it. And it happens with frustrating regularity. The only way to somewhat reliably land Incap is to Fear first, which renders the CC from Incap null and void.

I honestly don’t know what your getting at here. You say NB has too much burst? You obviously haven’t played against a good Stam Warden. If you are complaining about getting ganked then channel your uninformed and completely biased energy towards Focus Aim.

Stamden burst is not even close to stamblade burst. What does stamden have lmfaoooo, sub assault? Wrecking blow? Lol you’re full of bs. Incap is broken. If it wasn’t I wouldn’t use it on my MAGICKA nightblade over like 4 other possible ultimates.

Oh sweet! BohnT’s back up. WTF are you even talking about? Sub assault hitting in the same GCD as DBoS then Reverse Slice are about as nasty as it comes and this comes on a class with more group utility and great defensive options. As I’ve said before MagNB is top of the food chain 1v1 right now but gear sets and Assassin’s Will are as much to blame as anything. What I don’t want to see happen is StamNB get watered down into a class that really doesn’t bring anything to the PvP table anymore. Lmfaooo all you want but incap needs to stay as is.

i really wouldn't talk crap about dueling with Sub. that guy wipes the Floor with almost any Player on pc eu in 1v1.
Neither do we want to see stamnb become a dead class but we also don't want to see it in its current overperfoming state.

I’m not talking crap. I’m calling you out for making disingenuous exaggerated posts. I don’t care how good he is on PC EU because I don’t have a clue how good everyone else is there by comparison. I know exactly who the top players are on Xbox NA and the classes they run. I try to be unbiased and look at StamNB as a person who duels and PvP’s on one and one who PvP’s against and duels them on other classes.

Incap is a strong ultimate that is balanced by the fact that it is single target, blockable, and dodgeable. It hits more regularly against magic classes but shields render the defile almost useless. It hits less frequently on stamina but the defile now comes into play when it does. Templar can purge the defile all together. This leaves the stun and 20% damage for 6 seconds. DBoS has a stun (same as Incap) and a DOT (similar to 20% extra damage) but is AOE. So in essence, against stamina it’s unique in the fact that you get a defile but is counterbalanced by the fact that it can be blocked, dodged and shuffled. Against magica the defile is much less useful but the ultimate hits more often. And it is single target.

If I line my burst up perfectly shouldn’t I be able to kill someone. If not how else should I do it? It seems the only way these days. Too many classes can survive and heal to full or shield stack if you leave them hanging on. I also duel a lot on my MagDK. I roast people all the time with Meteor/Fossilize/Whip. That’s as OP as anything else. Is that next?

When you say things like Incap lands 9/10 times this simply isn’t true. No one hits me for 9/10 of their incaps. I don’t know a single person who would agree with this number. And I know some very good players. Maybe PC EU players are bad, potatoes, have bad connections, whatever. But when you make a blanket statement like this then apply it to the whole game, across all platforms, it makes it hard to take you serious. That’s my opinion.

1. PC EU is the most tryharding Server you can find

Incap is not balanced especially not in 1v1.
The CC opens up 1-2 gcd that's too much for a class with a higher frontloaded burst than other classes get as a backloaded burst.
An easy was too see this is what you have to do to kill an enemy with a certain skill level:
You put enough pressure on your enemies that's you can often skip to LA weave because of how hard incap hits and every SA afterwards hits even harder. On any other class you can forget getting any kills against anything except for the worst players out there iif you don't LA weave.
But that's subjective because you can't measure player skill all the time.

With the stun on incap you are guaranteed to hit your following ability. This means an enemy that takes an incap to the face also gets hit by the next ability and he's still CC'ed meaning he can't block or dodge the skill.

This means for stamnb:
1.GCD: Heavy attack+incap+ disease enchant ~ 9-11k damage
2. GCD: LA+ SA = 9-11k as well due to buffs or LA+ Will ~ 11-13k damage

That is 18-24k damage out of the dark in 2 gcds with not much reactive counterplay, in order to block or dodge incap you have to do it before the enemy is using it. When you AC incap you will hit it if you know when to use it unless the enemy is running major evasion but this is maybe the case for 20% of all players meaning:
Incaps dodged by shuffle are only 3% when you evenly fight against all classes.

And no nightblade isn't meant to kill the player in 1-2 GCD. The extra damage buff is there to give stamnb after it uses the ultimate a spammable that hits for more than the ultimate itself to kill the enemy even when he's defending himself. This is completely countered by the CC on incap that gets you so many kills and puts the enemy under pressure because he eats 2 skills with the damage of an ultimate if he can't block/ dodge incap which is pure luck.

Also a skill that is completely overperfoming in 1v1 isn't balanced because it's not good for other situations. 1v1 is the most elemental fight and a lot of things come down to a 1v1 if we are excluding bomb groups.
Incap is too strong in 1v1 as it let's you win fights where you aren't even in danger of getting one single hit by an enemy.

The removal of incap CC wil balance stamina nightblade but it will not kill them not at all.

I don’t know about removing the CC on incap though.. we gotta tread carefully or we’ll be back to every stamblade using soul harvest like it was before they changed incap. Incap without a stun doesn’t really “incapacitate”. I really don’t know what to do to be completely fair. I mean removing the damage passive would ruin stamblades for pve. Maybe removing the defile? Tough choice, I feel like any nerfs to incap will be a pill that’s hard to swallow for the long time stamblade mains.

I’ve dueled with a very very good rollerblade quite a lot lately, and I’ve come to realize that despite their burst stamblades (rollerblades, bleedblades are stupid op imo ) aren’t really doing much. They are easily instagibbed and the only thing that carries them now is the ability to dodge around then go in cloak to reset the cooldown on dodge. If anything, we need to change cloak first.

I mentioned before that removing the defile on Soul Harvest and leaving it only on incap would keep incap in the game. Soul Harvest caters so much more to PvE / bomb zergs with it's buff that i don't see too big of a problem removing it's defile.

Also nerfing cloak will result in something even worse. Every NB will just put everything into damage to really one shot players so they never have to rely on cloak again. With the removal of incap CC they are forced to stay in combat longer without cloaking around which also translates into an easier time to kill them.
They would still be able to dodge all the time but they aren't a threat then meaning they have to decide if they want to get the kill or play save and keep on dodging/ cloaking.
Also curious which class you were playing with vs the nb

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

if you fail to hit 9/10 incaps it's your fault. you ac it and no one will avoid it wiht block or dodge, that single miss is due to passive Evasion but a good nb will always hit you.
Summoning @Subversus to tell People which spec is currently dominating everything (small hint it's stamnb)
Stamnb is the only class with enough burst skills to don't care about delayed burst skills.
Incap into will is 20k damage without LA weaving who cares if i had another delayed burst skill that guy is dead as the following 5 seconds every SA will hit harder than that incap also he has defile on him.

i'm sure incap is on par with DBoS when every nb is running incap including magnbs why aren't they running dbos when it's just as good or even better as you say? Because it's not with incap you can kill an enemy in 2 gcds and that's what makes a class which can disengage at will too strong. A delayed skill wouldn't even be needed most of the time you end mayn of your fights in few gcds after you leave cloak there wouldn't even be time to wait for the delayed burst to happen.

LOL... Hitting Incap 9/10 times? This tells me everything I need to know about you. You are a tourist on the class. As I have stated before you rolled a Nightblade and immediately ran to the forums crying the class needs buffed. You dueled your buddy against his Nightblade then decided the class needed nerfed. Off to the forums you go. I’m not making this up. These were your own posts.

Incap is better single target then DBoS. As it should be for SINGLE target. DBoS is better against groups and in a group. Period. I know every trick for landing Incap and I assure you with shuffle, random roll dodges, lag, and people block canceling skills lightning fast, you are not anywhere near 9/10 Incaps landing.

You invent scenarios to support your argument and exaggerate to promote your agenda.

I'm not a tourist, i just like to see everything rather than others who just stick to NB and nothing else.
I rolled my nb in the pre beta and not later when NB got buffs.
I decided the class needs nerf in my eyes after playing every other spec in the class and then returning to stamnb. When i played stamnb only like you do i thought it was weak but it's not.

What does it help that Dbos is better against groups when a NB can fight groups much better with Incap one by one. If you go full Rambo i know why you think stamnb is weak you try to force something that will not work because you are in a disadvantage.

You don't know every Trick if you don't hit atleast 8/10 incaps. You react to your enemy because he can't react to your incap if you AC it. The only reason your incap should miss is if you get unlucky with shuffle every other miss is a L2p issue on your side.

Ahhh. We are down to 8/10 now. Progress. Or maybe this is another completely fabricated number. Much like the time you claimed you killed 3 people in 10 seconds, with your Incap showing on every one of their recaps. I’ll clue you in on some things . If someone block cancels a skill at the same time I am Incapping. Blocked. If someone roll dodges the same time I AC cancel Incap. Dodged. Hell, I inadvertently block Incap all the time on my MagDK and Magplar, just from block canceling skills. This is the reality of it. And it happens with frustrating regularity. The only way to somewhat reliably land Incap is to Fear first, which renders the CC from Incap null and void.

I honestly don’t know what your getting at here. You say NB has too much burst? You obviously haven’t played against a good Stam Warden. If you are complaining about getting ganked then channel your uninformed and completely biased energy towards Focus Aim.

Stamden burst is not even close to stamblade burst. What does stamden have lmfaoooo, sub assault? Wrecking blow? Lol you’re full of bs. Incap is broken. If it wasn’t I wouldn’t use it on my MAGICKA nightblade over like 4 other possible ultimates.

Oh sweet! BohnT’s back up. WTF are you even talking about? Sub assault hitting in the same GCD as DBoS then Reverse Slice are about as nasty as it comes and this comes on a class with more group utility and great defensive options. As I’ve said before MagNB is top of the food chain 1v1 right now but gear sets and Assassin’s Will are as much to blame as anything. What I don’t want to see happen is StamNB get watered down into a class that really doesn’t bring anything to the PvP table anymore. Lmfaooo all you want but incap needs to stay as is.

i really wouldn't talk crap about dueling with Sub. that guy wipes the Floor with almost any Player on pc eu in 1v1.
Neither do we want to see stamnb become a dead class but we also don't want to see it in its current overperfoming state.

I’m not talking crap. I’m calling you out for making disingenuous exaggerated posts. I don’t care how good he is on PC EU because I don’t have a clue how good everyone else is there by comparison. I know exactly who the top players are on Xbox NA and the classes they run. I try to be unbiased and look at StamNB as a person who duels and PvP’s on one and one who PvP’s against and duels them on other classes.

Incap is a strong ultimate that is balanced by the fact that it is single target, blockable, and dodgeable. It hits more regularly against magic classes but shields render the defile almost useless. It hits less frequently on stamina but the defile now comes into play when it does. Templar can purge the defile all together. This leaves the stun and 20% damage for 6 seconds. DBoS has a stun (same as Incap) and a DOT (similar to 20% extra damage) but is AOE. So in essence, against stamina it’s unique in the fact that you get a defile but is counterbalanced by the fact that it can be blocked, dodged and shuffled. Against magica the defile is much less useful but the ultimate hits more often. And it is single target.

If I line my burst up perfectly shouldn’t I be able to kill someone. If not how else should I do it? It seems the only way these days. Too many classes can survive and heal to full or shield stack if you leave them hanging on. I also duel a lot on my MagDK. I roast people all the time with Meteor/Fossilize/Whip. That’s as OP as anything else. Is that next?

When you say things like Incap lands 9/10 times this simply isn’t true. No one hits me for 9/10 of their incaps. I don’t know a single person who would agree with this number. And I know some very good players. Maybe PC EU players are bad, potatoes, have bad connections, whatever. But when you make a blanket statement like this then apply it to the whole game, across all platforms, it makes it hard to take you serious. That’s my opinion.

1. PC EU is the most tryharding Server you can find

Incap is not balanced especially not in 1v1.
The CC opens up 1-2 gcd that's too much for a class with a higher frontloaded burst than other classes get as a backloaded burst.
An easy was too see this is what you have to do to kill an enemy with a certain skill level:
You put enough pressure on your enemies that's you can often skip to LA weave because of how hard incap hits and every SA afterwards hits even harder. On any other class you can forget getting any kills against anything except for the worst players out there iif you don't LA weave.
But that's subjective because you can't measure player skill all the time.

With the stun on incap you are guaranteed to hit your following ability. This means an enemy that takes an incap to the face also gets hit by the next ability and he's still CC'ed meaning he can't block or dodge the skill.

This means for stamnb:
1.GCD: Heavy attack+incap+ disease enchant ~ 9-11k damage
2. GCD: LA+ SA = 9-11k as well due to buffs or LA+ Will ~ 11-13k damage

That is 18-24k damage out of the dark in 2 gcds with not much reactive counterplay, in order to block or dodge incap you have to do it before the enemy is using it. When you AC incap you will hit it if you know when to use it unless the enemy is running major evasion but this is maybe the case for 20% of all players meaning:
Incaps dodged by shuffle are only 3% when you evenly fight against all classes.

And no nightblade isn't meant to kill the player in 1-2 GCD. The extra damage buff is there to give stamnb after it uses the ultimate a spammable that hits for more than the ultimate itself to kill the enemy even when he's defending himself. This is completely countered by the CC on incap that gets you so many kills and puts the enemy under pressure because he eats 2 skills with the damage of an ultimate if he can't block/ dodge incap which is pure luck.

Also a skill that is completely overperfoming in 1v1 isn't balanced because it's not good for other situations. 1v1 is the most elemental fight and a lot of things come down to a 1v1 if we are excluding bomb groups.
Incap is too strong in 1v1 as it let's you win fights where you aren't even in danger of getting one single hit by an enemy.

The removal of incap CC wil balance stamina nightblade but it will not kill them not at all.

I don’t know about removing the CC on incap though.. we gotta tread carefully or we’ll be back to every stamblade using soul harvest like it was before they changed incap. Incap without a stun doesn’t really “incapacitate”. I really don’t know what to do to be completely fair. I mean removing the damage passive would ruin stamblades for pve. Maybe removing the defile? Tough choice, I feel like any nerfs to incap will be a pill that’s hard to swallow for the long time stamblade mains.

I’ve dueled with a very very good rollerblade quite a lot lately, and I’ve come to realize that despite their burst stamblades (rollerblades, bleedblades are stupid op imo ) aren’t really doing much. They are easily instagibbed and the only thing that carries them now is the ability to dodge around then go in cloak to reset the cooldown on dodge. If anything, we need to change cloak first.

I mentioned before that removing the defile on Soul Harvest and leaving it only on incap would keep incap in the game. Soul Harvest caters so much more to PvE / bomb zergs with it's buff that i don't see too big of a problem removing it's defile.

Also nerfing cloak will result in something even worse. Every NB will just put everything into damage to really one shot players so they never have to rely on cloak again. With the removal of incap CC they are forced to stay in combat longer without cloaking around which also translates into an easier time to kill them.
They would still be able to dodge all the time but they aren't a threat then meaning they have to decide if they want to get the kill or play save and keep on dodging/ cloaking.
Also curious which class you were playing with vs the nb

Magsorc at the time, arguably one of the biggest counters to rollerblades hahaha. Camp mines and instagib with rune cage

If I am on my magblade rollerblades usually have the upper hand (good ones that know what they’re doing at least). Nothing we have is undodgeable and there is not enough damage to instagib them, especially since incap > merciless doesn’t actually work against most good players cause they can just break and dodge.

Get your tinfoil hats, i noticed along with the guys I'm playing with that it is much easier to break free from incap and dodge again after break free than on any other class. It really sounds stupid but whenever i run around with my Stamnb incap is no issue i get stunned but can break free and dodge with ease. As soon as i change my class it seems to be almost impossible to break free fast enough. I also noticed this the other way around when fighting stamnbs or other specs with my meele magnb or my stamnb. The stamnbs don't have much issue with incap+ will and often avoid it but others just take it straight to the face even when they already dodged. @Derra has a discussion about dodge and incap recently

Well bleedblade with mark is also a great counter

A

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

if you fail to hit 9/10 incaps it's your fault. you ac it and no one will avoid it wiht block or dodge, that single miss is due to passive Evasion but a good nb will always hit you.
Summoning @Subversus to tell People which spec is currently dominating everything (small hint it's stamnb)
Stamnb is the only class with enough burst skills to don't care about delayed burst skills.
Incap into will is 20k damage without LA weaving who cares if i had another delayed burst skill that guy is dead as the following 5 seconds every SA will hit harder than that incap also he has defile on him.

i'm sure incap is on par with DBoS when every nb is running incap including magnbs why aren't they running dbos when it's just as good or even better as you say? Because it's not with incap you can kill an enemy in 2 gcds and that's what makes a class which can disengage at will too strong. A delayed skill wouldn't even be needed most of the time you end mayn of your fights in few gcds after you leave cloak there wouldn't even be time to wait for the delayed burst to happen.

LOL... Hitting Incap 9/10 times? This tells me everything I need to know about you. You are a tourist on the class. As I have stated before you rolled a Nightblade and immediately ran to the forums crying the class needs buffed. You dueled your buddy against his Nightblade then decided the class needed nerfed. Off to the forums you go. I’m not making this up. These were your own posts.

Incap is better single target then DBoS. As it should be for SINGLE target. DBoS is better against groups and in a group. Period. I know every trick for landing Incap and I assure you with shuffle, random roll dodges, lag, and people block canceling skills lightning fast, you are not anywhere near 9/10 Incaps landing.

You invent scenarios to support your argument and exaggerate to promote your agenda.

I'm not a tourist, i just like to see everything rather than others who just stick to NB and nothing else.
I rolled my nb in the pre beta and not later when NB got buffs.
I decided the class needs nerf in my eyes after playing every other spec in the class and then returning to stamnb. When i played stamnb only like you do i thought it was weak but it's not.

What does it help that Dbos is better against groups when a NB can fight groups much better with Incap one by one. If you go full Rambo i know why you think stamnb is weak you try to force something that will not work because you are in a disadvantage.

You don't know every Trick if you don't hit atleast 8/10 incaps. You react to your enemy because he can't react to your incap if you AC it. The only reason your incap should miss is if you get unlucky with shuffle every other miss is a L2p issue on your side.

Ahhh. We are down to 8/10 now. Progress. Or maybe this is another completely fabricated number. Much like the time you claimed you killed 3 people in 10 seconds, with your Incap showing on every one of their recaps. I’ll clue you in on some things . If someone block cancels a skill at the same time I am Incapping. Blocked. If someone roll dodges the same time I AC cancel Incap. Dodged. Hell, I inadvertently block Incap all the time on my MagDK and Magplar, just from block canceling skills. This is the reality of it. And it happens with frustrating regularity. The only way to somewhat reliably land Incap is to Fear first, which renders the CC from Incap null and void.

I honestly don’t know what your getting at here. You say NB has too much burst? You obviously haven’t played against a good Stam Warden. If you are complaining about getting ganked then channel your uninformed and completely biased energy towards Focus Aim.

Stamden burst is not even close to stamblade burst. What does stamden have lmfaoooo, sub assault? Wrecking blow? Lol you’re full of bs. Incap is broken. If it wasn’t I wouldn’t use it on my MAGICKA nightblade over like 4 other possible ultimates.

Oh sweet! BohnT’s back up. WTF are you even talking about? Sub assault hitting in the same GCD as DBoS then Reverse Slice are about as nasty as it comes and this comes on a class with more group utility and great defensive options. As I’ve said before MagNB is top of the food chain 1v1 right now but gear sets and Assassin’s Will are as much to blame as anything. What I don’t want to see happen is StamNB get watered down into a class that really doesn’t bring anything to the PvP table anymore. Lmfaooo all you want but incap needs to stay as is.

i really wouldn't talk crap about dueling with Sub. that guy wipes the Floor with almost any Player on pc eu in 1v1.
Neither do we want to see stamnb become a dead class but we also don't want to see it in its current overperfoming state.

I’m not talking crap. I’m calling you out for making disingenuous exaggerated posts. I don’t care how good he is on PC EU because I don’t have a clue how good everyone else is there by comparison. I know exactly who the top players are on Xbox NA and the classes they run. I try to be unbiased and look at StamNB as a person who duels and PvP’s on one and one who PvP’s against and duels them on other classes.

Incap is a strong ultimate that is balanced by the fact that it is single target, blockable, and dodgeable. It hits more regularly against magic classes but shields render the defile almost useless. It hits less frequently on stamina but the defile now comes into play when it does. Templar can purge the defile all together. This leaves the stun and 20% damage for 6 seconds. DBoS has a stun (same as Incap) and a DOT (similar to 20% extra damage) but is AOE. So in essence, against stamina it’s unique in the fact that you get a defile but is counterbalanced by the fact that it can be blocked, dodged and shuffled. Against magica the defile is much less useful but the ultimate hits more often. And it is single target.

If I line my burst up perfectly shouldn’t I be able to kill someone. If not how else should I do it? It seems the only way these days. Too many classes can survive and heal to full or shield stack if you leave them hanging on. I also duel a lot on my MagDK. I roast people all the time with Meteor/Fossilize/Whip. That’s as OP as anything else. Is that next?

When you say things like Incap lands 9/10 times this simply isn’t true. No one hits me for 9/10 of their incaps. I don’t know a single person who would agree with this number. And I know some very good players. Maybe PC EU players are bad, potatoes, have bad connections, whatever. But when you make a blanket statement like this then apply it to the whole game, across all platforms, it makes it hard to take you serious. That’s my opinion.

1. PC EU is the most tryharding Server you can find

Incap is not balanced especially not in 1v1.
The CC opens up 1-2 gcd that's too much for a class with a higher frontloaded burst than other classes get as a backloaded burst.
An easy was too see this is what you have to do to kill an enemy with a certain skill level:
You put enough pressure on your enemies that's you can often skip to LA weave because of how hard incap hits and every SA afterwards hits even harder. On any other class you can forget getting any kills against anything except for the worst players out there iif you don't LA weave.
But that's subjective because you can't measure player skill all the time.

With the stun on incap you are guaranteed to hit your following ability. This means an enemy that takes an incap to the face also gets hit by the next ability and he's still CC'ed meaning he can't block or dodge the skill.

This means for stamnb:
1.GCD: Heavy attack+incap+ disease enchant ~ 9-11k damage
2. GCD: LA+ SA = 9-11k as well due to buffs or LA+ Will ~ 11-13k damage

That is 18-24k damage out of the dark in 2 gcds with not much reactive counterplay, in order to block or dodge incap you have to do it before the enemy is using it. When you AC incap you will hit it if you know when to use it unless the enemy is running major evasion but this is maybe the case for 20% of all players meaning:
Incaps dodged by shuffle are only 3% when you evenly fight against all classes.

And no nightblade isn't meant to kill the player in 1-2 GCD. The extra damage buff is there to give stamnb after it uses the ultimate a spammable that hits for more than the ultimate itself to kill the enemy even when he's defending himself. This is completely countered by the CC on incap that gets you so many kills and puts the enemy under pressure because he eats 2 skills with the damage of an ultimate if he can't block/ dodge incap which is pure luck.

Also a skill that is completely overperfoming in 1v1 isn't balanced because it's not good for other situations. 1v1 is the most elemental fight and a lot of things come down to a 1v1 if we are excluding bomb groups.
Incap is too strong in 1v1 as it let's you win fights where you aren't even in danger of getting one single hit by an enemy.

The removal of incap CC wil balance stamina nightblade but it will not kill them not at all.

I don’t know about removing the CC on incap though.. we gotta tread carefully or we’ll be back to every stamblade using soul harvest like it was before they changed incap. Incap without a stun doesn’t really “incapacitate”. I really don’t know what to do to be completely fair. I mean removing the damage passive would ruin stamblades for pve. Maybe removing the defile? Tough choice, I feel like any nerfs to incap will be a pill that’s hard to swallow for the long time stamblade mains.

I’ve dueled with a very very good rollerblade quite a lot lately, and I’ve come to realize that despite their burst stamblades (rollerblades, bleedblades are stupid op imo ) aren’t really doing much. They are easily instagibbed and the only thing that carries them now is the ability to dodge around then go in cloak to reset the cooldown on dodge. If anything, we need to change cloak first.

I mentioned before that removing the defile on Soul Harvest and leaving it only on incap would keep incap in the game. Soul Harvest caters so much more to PvE / bomb zergs with it's buff that i don't see too big of a problem removing it's defile.

Also nerfing cloak will result in something even worse. Every NB will just put everything into damage to really one shot players so they never have to rely on cloak again. With the removal of incap CC they are forced to stay in combat longer without cloaking around which also translates into an easier time to kill them.
They would still be able to dodge all the time but they aren't a threat then meaning they have to decide if they want to get the kill or play save and keep on dodging/ cloaking.
Also curious which class you were playing with vs the nb

Magsorc at the time, arguably one of the biggest counters to rollerblades hahaha. Camp mines and instagib with rune cage

If I am on my magblade rollerblades usually have the upper hand (good ones that know what they’re doing at least). Nothing we have is undodgeable and there is not enough damage to instagib them, especially since incap > merciless doesn’t actually work against most good players cause they can just break and dodge.

Get your tinfoil hats, i noticed along with the guys I'm playing with that it is much easier to break free from incap and dodge again after break free than on any other class. It really sounds stupid but whenever i run around with my Stamnb incap is no issue i get stunned but can break free and dodge with ease. As soon as i change my class it seems to be almost impossible to break free fast enough. I also noticed this the other way around when fighting stamnbs or other specs with my meele magnb or my stamnb. The stamnbs don't have much issue with incap+ will and often avoid it but others just take it straight to the face even when they already dodged. @Derra has a discussion about dodge and incap recently

Well bleedblade with mark is also a great counter

I think @Ragnaroek93 and @DDuke tested the incap relentless thing actually. Think there’s even a video? Not sure, but due to the newly prolonged travel time on the bow you can now break free and dodge even if point blank. It’s really stupid to be completely fair, it makes magblade burst bleh against decent players.

With the current Sound bug of will i seem to hit all of them and most of the time will into incap seems to be better than vice versa against decent players as they know the normal burst combo what they don't expect is getting hit by cancelled will without any sound followed by an incap with SA.

I overlooked concealed weapon. I always felt it was strange this didn't apply Major Breech as the magicka coutnerpart, while Surprise Attack granted Major Fracture. Maybe this could be added into the skill as a tiny benefit?

Also, if you are going to use Dark Cloak, you won't be able to benefit from the effects of either morph (Stun and off balance) of this skill other than using it for your initial strike from crouched Stealth.

mod
Greetings, we removed a few comments that were baiting which is not permitted as outlined in our forum rules. This is a friendly reminder to remain on topic and keep comments productive to the conversation. Thank you for your understanding.

You would not of had any baiting comments if you ZOS would not of started this whole mess with the Nightblade changes in the first place. That also holds true for all the other class changes coming with the new expansion. Somethings are best left alone.

Would be nice if you put as much effort into fixing the numerous bugs and performance issues in this game.

technohic wrote: »

Did you just suggest nerfing the lesser used morph as a trade off to “nerf” the more used morph? Lol

Removing the stun would do very little considering NBs have stuns to chose from with fear and concealed weapon ( early. Can’t think of base ability) . The problem with Incap over those is people can’t break free as quickly as the concealed weapon stun, and fear is as buggy but runs players away from you making it have opportunity cost and it costs magicka.

If they made the stun more reasonable to break free it would be fine. No need to make the other morph become a dead slot for passives even more.

It's Veiled strike. Also, I would like it if Fear wouldn't cause the running away animation, but have them stay in place cowering or something like that. That would keep people from dropping through ground surfaces, and allow Nightblade tanks to use Fear skills as an actual CC in Dungeons.

technohic wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

if you fail to hit 9/10 incaps it's your fault. you ac it and no one will avoid it wiht block or dodge, that single miss is due to passive Evasion but a good nb will always hit you.
Summoning @Subversus to tell People which spec is currently dominating everything (small hint it's stamnb)
Stamnb is the only class with enough burst skills to don't care about delayed burst skills.
Incap into will is 20k damage without LA weaving who cares if i had another delayed burst skill that guy is dead as the following 5 seconds every SA will hit harder than that incap also he has defile on him.

i'm sure incap is on par with DBoS when every nb is running incap including magnbs why aren't they running dbos when it's just as good or even better as you say? Because it's not with incap you can kill an enemy in 2 gcds and that's what makes a class which can disengage at will too strong. A delayed skill wouldn't even be needed most of the time you end mayn of your fights in few gcds after you leave cloak there wouldn't even be time to wait for the delayed burst to happen.

LOL... Hitting Incap 9/10 times? This tells me everything I need to know about you. You are a tourist on the class. As I have stated before you rolled a Nightblade and immediately ran to the forums crying the class needs buffed. You dueled your buddy against his Nightblade then decided the class needed nerfed. Off to the forums you go. I’m not making this up. These were your own posts.

Incap is better single target then DBoS. As it should be for SINGLE target. DBoS is better against groups and in a group. Period. I know every trick for landing Incap and I assure you with shuffle, random roll dodges, lag, and people block canceling skills lightning fast, you are not anywhere near 9/10 Incaps landing.

You invent scenarios to support your argument and exaggerate to promote your agenda.

I'm not a tourist, i just like to see everything rather than others who just stick to NB and nothing else.
I rolled my nb in the pre beta and not later when NB got buffs.
I decided the class needs nerf in my eyes after playing every other spec in the class and then returning to stamnb. When i played stamnb only like you do i thought it was weak but it's not.

What does it help that Dbos is better against groups when a NB can fight groups much better with Incap one by one. If you go full Rambo i know why you think stamnb is weak you try to force something that will not work because you are in a disadvantage.

You don't know every Trick if you don't hit atleast 8/10 incaps. You react to your enemy because he can't react to your incap if you AC it. The only reason your incap should miss is if you get unlucky with shuffle every other miss is a L2p issue on your side.

Ahhh. We are down to 8/10 now. Progress. Or maybe this is another completely fabricated number. Much like the time you claimed you killed 3 people in 10 seconds, with your Incap showing on every one of their recaps. I’ll clue you in on some things . If someone block cancels a skill at the same time I am Incapping. Blocked. If someone roll dodges the same time I AC cancel Incap. Dodged. Hell, I inadvertently block Incap all the time on my MagDK and Magplar, just from block canceling skills. This is the reality of it. And it happens with frustrating regularity. The only way to somewhat reliably land Incap is to Fear first, which renders the CC from Incap null and void.

I honestly don’t know what your getting at here. You say NB has too much burst? You obviously haven’t played against a good Stam Warden. If you are complaining about getting ganked then channel your uninformed and completely biased energy towards Focus Aim.

Stamden burst is not even close to stamblade burst. What does stamden have lmfaoooo, sub assault? Wrecking blow? Lol you’re full of bs. Incap is broken. If it wasn’t I wouldn’t use it on my MAGICKA nightblade over like 4 other possible ultimates.

Oh sweet! BohnT’s back up. WTF are you even talking about? Sub assault hitting in the same GCD as DBoS then Reverse Slice are about as nasty as it comes and this comes on a class with more group utility and great defensive options. As I’ve said before MagNB is top of the food chain 1v1 right now but gear sets and Assassin’s Will are as much to blame as anything. What I don’t want to see happen is StamNB get watered down into a class that really doesn’t bring anything to the PvP table anymore. Lmfaooo all you want but incap needs to stay as is.

i really wouldn't talk crap about dueling with Sub. that guy wipes the Floor with almost any Player on pc eu in 1v1.
Neither do we want to see stamnb become a dead class but we also don't want to see it in its current overperfoming state.

I’m not talking crap. I’m calling you out for making disingenuous exaggerated posts. I don’t care how good he is on PC EU because I don’t have a clue how good everyone else is there by comparison. I know exactly who the top players are on Xbox NA and the classes they run. I try to be unbiased and look at StamNB as a person who duels and PvP’s on one and one who PvP’s against and duels them on other classes.

Incap is a strong ultimate that is balanced by the fact that it is single target, blockable, and dodgeable. It hits more regularly against magic classes but shields render the defile almost useless. It hits less frequently on stamina but the defile now comes into play when it does. Templar can purge the defile all together. This leaves the stun and 20% damage for 6 seconds. DBoS has a stun (same as Incap) and a DOT (similar to 20% extra damage) but is AOE. So in essence, against stamina it’s unique in the fact that you get a defile but is counterbalanced by the fact that it can be blocked, dodged and shuffled. Against magica the defile is much less useful but the ultimate hits more often. And it is single target.

If I line my burst up perfectly shouldn’t I be able to kill someone. If not how else should I do it? It seems the only way these days. Too many classes can survive and heal to full or shield stack if you leave them hanging on. I also duel a lot on my MagDK. I roast people all the time with Meteor/Fossilize/Whip. That’s as OP as anything else. Is that next?

When you say things like Incap lands 9/10 times this simply isn’t true. No one hits me for 9/10 of their incaps. I don’t know a single person who would agree with this number. And I know some very good players. Maybe PC EU players are bad, potatoes, have bad connections, whatever. But when you make a blanket statement like this then apply it to the whole game, across all platforms, it makes it hard to take you serious. That’s my opinion.

1. PC EU is the most tryharding Server you can find

Incap is not balanced especially not in 1v1.
The CC opens up 1-2 gcd that's too much for a class with a higher frontloaded burst than other classes get as a backloaded burst.
An easy was too see this is what you have to do to kill an enemy with a certain skill level:
You put enough pressure on your enemies that's you can often skip to LA weave because of how hard incap hits and every SA afterwards hits even harder. On any other class you can forget getting any kills against anything except for the worst players out there iif you don't LA weave.
But that's subjective because you can't measure player skill all the time.

With the stun on incap you are guaranteed to hit your following ability. This means an enemy that takes an incap to the face also gets hit by the next ability and he's still CC'ed meaning he can't block or dodge the skill.

This means for stamnb:
1.GCD: Heavy attack+incap+ disease enchant ~ 9-11k damage
2. GCD: LA+ SA = 9-11k as well due to buffs or LA+ Will ~ 11-13k damage

That is 18-24k damage out of the dark in 2 gcds with not much reactive counterplay, in order to block or dodge incap you have to do it before the enemy is using it. When you AC incap you will hit it if you know when to use it unless the enemy is running major evasion but this is maybe the case for 20% of all players meaning:
Incaps dodged by shuffle are only 3% when you evenly fight against all classes.

And no nightblade isn't meant to kill the player in 1-2 GCD. The extra damage buff is there to give stamnb after it uses the ultimate a spammable that hits for more than the ultimate itself to kill the enemy even when he's defending himself. This is completely countered by the CC on incap that gets you so many kills and puts the enemy under pressure because he eats 2 skills with the damage of an ultimate if he can't block/ dodge incap which is pure luck.

Also a skill that is completely overperfoming in 1v1 isn't balanced because it's not good for other situations. 1v1 is the most elemental fight and a lot of things come down to a 1v1 if we are excluding bomb groups.
Incap is too strong in 1v1 as it let's you win fights where you aren't even in danger of getting one single hit by an enemy.

The removal of incap CC wil balance stamina nightblade but it will not kill them not at all.

I don’t know about removing the CC on incap though.. we gotta tread carefully or we’ll be back to every stamblade using soul harvest like it was before they changed incap. Incap without a stun doesn’t really “incapacitate”. I really don’t know what to do to be completely fair. I mean removing the damage passive would ruin stamblades for pve. Maybe removing the defile? Tough choice, I feel like any nerfs to incap will be a pill that’s hard to swallow for the long time stamblade mains.

I’ve dueled with a very very good rollerblade quite a lot lately, and I’ve come to realize that despite their burst stamblades (rollerblades, bleedblades are stupid op imo ) aren’t really doing much. They are easily instagibbed and the only thing that carries them now is the ability to dodge around then go in cloak to reset the cooldown on dodge. If anything, we need to change cloak first.

I mentioned before that removing the defile on Soul Harvest and leaving it only on incap would keep incap in the game. Soul Harvest caters so much more to PvE / bomb zergs with it's buff that i don't see too big of a problem removing it's defile.

Also nerfing cloak will result in something even worse. Every NB will just put everything into damage to really one shot players so they never have to rely on cloak again. With the removal of incap CC they are forced to stay in combat longer without cloaking around which also translates into an easier time to kill them.
They would still be able to dodge all the time but they aren't a threat then meaning they have to decide if they want to get the kill or play save and keep on dodging/ cloaking.
Also curious which class you were playing with vs the nb

Did you just suggest nerfing the lesser used morph as a trade off to “nerf” the more used morph? Lol

Removing the stun would do very little considering NBs have stuns to chose from with fear and concealed weapon ( early. Can’t think of base ability) . The problem with Incap over those is people can’t break free as quickly as the concealed weapon stun, and fear is as buggy but runs players away from you making it have opportunity cost and it costs magicka.

If they made the stun more reasonable to break free it would be fine. No need to make the other morph become a dead slot for passives even more.

It's about burst gcds. Incap gives you 1 gcd which is massive Burst wise i made the calculations more than once already.
As soon as NBs have to use a cc before hitting 2 high damage skills the second skill isn't as guaranteed as it is right now.

Yes i advised a double nerf. 1 Morph for pve one for pvp. to prevent making incap a dead skill it has to have something over Soul Harvest, not the cc as we can see who's the clear winner right now. You could put another debuff on it but which one? Stamnb already has Access to most debuffs and buffs it Needs and incap already has 2 powerful debuffs/buffs. A minor buff wouldn't be enough for most Players to give up the 10 ult you get from Soul HArvest

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

if you fail to hit 9/10 incaps it's your fault. you ac it and no one will avoid it wiht block or dodge, that single miss is due to passive Evasion but a good nb will always hit you.
Summoning @Subversus to tell People which spec is currently dominating everything (small hint it's stamnb)
Stamnb is the only class with enough burst skills to don't care about delayed burst skills.
Incap into will is 20k damage without LA weaving who cares if i had another delayed burst skill that guy is dead as the following 5 seconds every SA will hit harder than that incap also he has defile on him.

i'm sure incap is on par with DBoS when every nb is running incap including magnbs why aren't they running dbos when it's just as good or even better as you say? Because it's not with incap you can kill an enemy in 2 gcds and that's what makes a class which can disengage at will too strong. A delayed skill wouldn't even be needed most of the time you end mayn of your fights in few gcds after you leave cloak there wouldn't even be time to wait for the delayed burst to happen.

LOL... Hitting Incap 9/10 times? This tells me everything I need to know about you. You are a tourist on the class. As I have stated before you rolled a Nightblade and immediately ran to the forums crying the class needs buffed. You dueled your buddy against his Nightblade then decided the class needed nerfed. Off to the forums you go. I’m not making this up. These were your own posts.

Incap is better single target then DBoS. As it should be for SINGLE target. DBoS is better against groups and in a group. Period. I know every trick for landing Incap and I assure you with shuffle, random roll dodges, lag, and people block canceling skills lightning fast, you are not anywhere near 9/10 Incaps landing.

You invent scenarios to support your argument and exaggerate to promote your agenda.

I'm not a tourist, i just like to see everything rather than others who just stick to NB and nothing else.
I rolled my nb in the pre beta and not later when NB got buffs.
I decided the class needs nerf in my eyes after playing every other spec in the class and then returning to stamnb. When i played stamnb only like you do i thought it was weak but it's not.

What does it help that Dbos is better against groups when a NB can fight groups much better with Incap one by one. If you go full Rambo i know why you think stamnb is weak you try to force something that will not work because you are in a disadvantage.

You don't know every Trick if you don't hit atleast 8/10 incaps. You react to your enemy because he can't react to your incap if you AC it. The only reason your incap should miss is if you get unlucky with shuffle every other miss is a L2p issue on your side.

Ahhh. We are down to 8/10 now. Progress. Or maybe this is another completely fabricated number. Much like the time you claimed you killed 3 people in 10 seconds, with your Incap showing on every one of their recaps. I’ll clue you in on some things . If someone block cancels a skill at the same time I am Incapping. Blocked. If someone roll dodges the same time I AC cancel Incap. Dodged. Hell, I inadvertently block Incap all the time on my MagDK and Magplar, just from block canceling skills. This is the reality of it. And it happens with frustrating regularity. The only way to somewhat reliably land Incap is to Fear first, which renders the CC from Incap null and void.

I honestly don’t know what your getting at here. You say NB has too much burst? You obviously haven’t played against a good Stam Warden. If you are complaining about getting ganked then channel your uninformed and completely biased energy towards Focus Aim.

Stamden burst is not even close to stamblade burst. What does stamden have lmfaoooo, sub assault? Wrecking blow? Lol you’re full of bs. Incap is broken. If it wasn’t I wouldn’t use it on my MAGICKA nightblade over like 4 other possible ultimates.

Oh sweet! BohnT’s back up. WTF are you even talking about? Sub assault hitting in the same GCD as DBoS then Reverse Slice are about as nasty as it comes and this comes on a class with more group utility and great defensive options. As I’ve said before MagNB is top of the food chain 1v1 right now but gear sets and Assassin’s Will are as much to blame as anything. What I don’t want to see happen is StamNB get watered down into a class that really doesn’t bring anything to the PvP table anymore. Lmfaooo all you want but incap needs to stay as is.

i really wouldn't talk crap about dueling with Sub. that guy wipes the Floor with almost any Player on pc eu in 1v1.
Neither do we want to see stamnb become a dead class but we also don't want to see it in its current overperfoming state.

I’m not talking crap. I’m calling you out for making disingenuous exaggerated posts. I don’t care how good he is on PC EU because I don’t have a clue how good everyone else is there by comparison. I know exactly who the top players are on Xbox NA and the classes they run. I try to be unbiased and look at StamNB as a person who duels and PvP’s on one and one who PvP’s against and duels them on other classes.

Incap is a strong ultimate that is balanced by the fact that it is single target, blockable, and dodgeable. It hits more regularly against magic classes but shields render the defile almost useless. It hits less frequently on stamina but the defile now comes into play when it does. Templar can purge the defile all together. This leaves the stun and 20% damage for 6 seconds. DBoS has a stun (same as Incap) and a DOT (similar to 20% extra damage) but is AOE. So in essence, against stamina it’s unique in the fact that you get a defile but is counterbalanced by the fact that it can be blocked, dodged and shuffled. Against magica the defile is much less useful but the ultimate hits more often. And it is single target.

If I line my burst up perfectly shouldn’t I be able to kill someone. If not how else should I do it? It seems the only way these days. Too many classes can survive and heal to full or shield stack if you leave them hanging on. I also duel a lot on my MagDK. I roast people all the time with Meteor/Fossilize/Whip. That’s as OP as anything else. Is that next?

When you say things like Incap lands 9/10 times this simply isn’t true. No one hits me for 9/10 of their incaps. I don’t know a single person who would agree with this number. And I know some very good players. Maybe PC EU players are bad, potatoes, have bad connections, whatever. But when you make a blanket statement like this then apply it to the whole game, across all platforms, it makes it hard to take you serious. That’s my opinion.

1. PC EU is the most tryharding Server you can find

Incap is not balanced especially not in 1v1.
The CC opens up 1-2 gcd that's too much for a class with a higher frontloaded burst than other classes get as a backloaded burst.
An easy was too see this is what you have to do to kill an enemy with a certain skill level:
You put enough pressure on your enemies that's you can often skip to LA weave because of how hard incap hits and every SA afterwards hits even harder. On any other class you can forget getting any kills against anything except for the worst players out there iif you don't LA weave.
But that's subjective because you can't measure player skill all the time.

With the stun on incap you are guaranteed to hit your following ability. This means an enemy that takes an incap to the face also gets hit by the next ability and he's still CC'ed meaning he can't block or dodge the skill.

This means for stamnb:
1.GCD: Heavy attack+incap+ disease enchant ~ 9-11k damage
2. GCD: LA+ SA = 9-11k as well due to buffs or LA+ Will ~ 11-13k damage

That is 18-24k damage out of the dark in 2 gcds with not much reactive counterplay, in order to block or dodge incap you have to do it before the enemy is using it. When you AC incap you will hit it if you know when to use it unless the enemy is running major evasion but this is maybe the case for 20% of all players meaning:
Incaps dodged by shuffle are only 3% when you evenly fight against all classes.

And no nightblade isn't meant to kill the player in 1-2 GCD. The extra damage buff is there to give stamnb after it uses the ultimate a spammable that hits for more than the ultimate itself to kill the enemy even when he's defending himself. This is completely countered by the CC on incap that gets you so many kills and puts the enemy under pressure because he eats 2 skills with the damage of an ultimate if he can't block/ dodge incap which is pure luck.

Also a skill that is completely overperfoming in 1v1 isn't balanced because it's not good for other situations. 1v1 is the most elemental fight and a lot of things come down to a 1v1 if we are excluding bomb groups.
Incap is too strong in 1v1 as it let's you win fights where you aren't even in danger of getting one single hit by an enemy.

The removal of incap CC wil balance stamina nightblade but it will not kill them not at all.

I don’t know about removing the CC on incap though.. we gotta tread carefully or we’ll be back to every stamblade using soul harvest like it was before they changed incap. Incap without a stun doesn’t really “incapacitate”. I really don’t know what to do to be completely fair. I mean removing the damage passive would ruin stamblades for pve. Maybe removing the defile? Tough choice, I feel like any nerfs to incap will be a pill that’s hard to swallow for the long time stamblade mains.

I’ve dueled with a very very good rollerblade quite a lot lately, and I’ve come to realize that despite their burst stamblades (rollerblades, bleedblades are stupid op imo ) aren’t really doing much. They are easily instagibbed and the only thing that carries them now is the ability to dodge around then go in cloak to reset the cooldown on dodge. If anything, we need to change cloak first.

I mentioned before that removing the defile on Soul Harvest and leaving it only on incap would keep incap in the game. Soul Harvest caters so much more to PvE / bomb zergs with it's buff that i don't see too big of a problem removing it's defile.

Also nerfing cloak will result in something even worse. Every NB will just put everything into damage to really one shot players so they never have to rely on cloak again. With the removal of incap CC they are forced to stay in combat longer without cloaking around which also translates into an easier time to kill them.
They would still be able to dodge all the time but they aren't a threat then meaning they have to decide if they want to get the kill or play save and keep on dodging/ cloaking.
Also curious which class you were playing with vs the nb

Magsorc at the time, arguably one of the biggest counters to rollerblades hahaha. Camp mines and instagib with rune cage

If I am on my magblade rollerblades usually have the upper hand (good ones that know what they’re doing at least). Nothing we have is undodgeable and there is not enough damage to instagib them, especially since incap > merciless doesn’t actually work against most good players cause they can just break and dodge.

Get your tinfoil hats, i noticed along with the guys I'm playing with that it is much easier to break free from incap and dodge again after break free than on any other class. It really sounds stupid but whenever i run around with my Stamnb incap is no issue i get stunned but can break free and dodge with ease. As soon as i change my class it seems to be almost impossible to break free fast enough. I also noticed this the other way around when fighting stamnbs or other specs with my meele magnb or my stamnb. The stamnbs don't have much issue with incap+ will and often avoid it but others just take it straight to the face even when they already dodged. @Derra has a discussion about dodge and incap recently

Well bleedblade with mark is also a great counter

So wait. Now StamNB is able to CC break and dodge roll faster than other classes for you? Are you going to start a thread to nerf StamNB CC break? Or maybe other players don’t experience the same issues you do. I don’t. But that doesn’t stop you from screaming for nerfs based on your own biased opinion.

And when you say PC EU is the most try hard server I laugh. How do you know this?

[/quote]

1. PC EU is the most tryharding Server you can find

Incap is not balanced especially not in 1v1.
The CC opens up 1-2 gcd that's too much for a class with a higher frontloaded burst than other classes get as a backloaded burst.
An easy was too see this is what you have to do to kill an enemy with a certain skill level:
You put enough pressure on your enemies that's you can often skip to LA weave because of how hard incap hits and every SA afterwards hits even harder. On any other class you can forget getting any kills against anything except for the worst players out there iif you don't LA weave.
But that's subjective because you can't measure player skill all the time.

With the stun on incap you are guaranteed to hit your following ability. This means an enemy that takes an incap to the face also gets hit by the next ability and he's still CC'ed meaning he can't block or dodge the skill.

This means for stamnb:
1.GCD: Heavy attack+incap+ disease enchant ~ 9-11k damage
2. GCD: LA+ SA = 9-11k as well due to buffs or LA+ Will ~ 11-13k damage

That is 18-24k damage out of the dark in 2 gcds with not much reactive counterplay, in order to block or dodge incap you have to do it before the enemy is using it. When you AC incap you will hit it if you know when to use it unless the enemy is running major evasion but this is maybe the case for 20% of all players meaning:
Incaps dodged by shuffle are only 3% when you evenly fight against all classes.

And no nightblade isn't meant to kill the player in 1-2 GCD. The extra damage buff is there to give stamnb after it uses the ultimate a spammable that hits for more than the ultimate itself to kill the enemy even when he's defending himself. This is completely countered by the CC on incap that gets you so many kills and puts the enemy under pressure because he eats 2 skills with the damage of an ultimate if he can't block/ dodge incap which is pure luck.

Also a skill that is completely overperfoming in 1v1 isn't balanced because it's not good for other situations. 1v1 is the most elemental fight and a lot of things come down to a 1v1 if we are excluding bomb groups.
Incap is too strong in 1v1 as it let's you win fights where you aren't even in danger of getting one single hit by an enemy.

The removal of incap CC wil balance stamina nightblade but it will not kill them not at all.[/quote]

What part of Assassination are you not getting with this class? What is the likeliness of an HA-incap-disease enchant scenario happening? I've main'ed a NB since beta, and have experienced all the nerfs/buffs, and read most of the pitchfork posts. There is an undeniable part of the community that just hates dying to an assassin class (the gank). I am killed by NBs, and I don't run to forums calling for nerfs. I build to counter, or accept the fact that I have been bested.

If a NB opens up with incap and the stun is applied, then how is that different from any other ability that grants a stun? Its an ult designed to do its job, incapacitate the enemy. What about other spammed abilities like reverse slash, momentum, dawnbreaker, or dragon leap. These skills respectively operate to an advantage for it's user, and a disadvantage to the receiver?

Making the case that incap needs a nerf because someone is using it as intended makes your argument illogical/unreasonable. The ability and the user is making the assassination class work as it is suppose to. Otherwise, lets pitchfork less damage reduction for a DK, less healing for a templar, and less DPS for a sorc (which I don't know where the strengths are for the sorc 100%). NO! These classes have strengths, and counters are in place for those strengths.

Killset wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

if you fail to hit 9/10 incaps it's your fault. you ac it and no one will avoid it wiht block or dodge, that single miss is due to passive Evasion but a good nb will always hit you.
Summoning @Subversus to tell People which spec is currently dominating everything (small hint it's stamnb)
Stamnb is the only class with enough burst skills to don't care about delayed burst skills.
Incap into will is 20k damage without LA weaving who cares if i had another delayed burst skill that guy is dead as the following 5 seconds every SA will hit harder than that incap also he has defile on him.

i'm sure incap is on par with DBoS when every nb is running incap including magnbs why aren't they running dbos when it's just as good or even better as you say? Because it's not with incap you can kill an enemy in 2 gcds and that's what makes a class which can disengage at will too strong. A delayed skill wouldn't even be needed most of the time you end mayn of your fights in few gcds after you leave cloak there wouldn't even be time to wait for the delayed burst to happen.

LOL... Hitting Incap 9/10 times? This tells me everything I need to know about you. You are a tourist on the class. As I have stated before you rolled a Nightblade and immediately ran to the forums crying the class needs buffed. You dueled your buddy against his Nightblade then decided the class needed nerfed. Off to the forums you go. I’m not making this up. These were your own posts.

Incap is better single target then DBoS. As it should be for SINGLE target. DBoS is better against groups and in a group. Period. I know every trick for landing Incap and I assure you with shuffle, random roll dodges, lag, and people block canceling skills lightning fast, you are not anywhere near 9/10 Incaps landing.

You invent scenarios to support your argument and exaggerate to promote your agenda.

I'm not a tourist, i just like to see everything rather than others who just stick to NB and nothing else.
I rolled my nb in the pre beta and not later when NB got buffs.
I decided the class needs nerf in my eyes after playing every other spec in the class and then returning to stamnb. When i played stamnb only like you do i thought it was weak but it's not.

What does it help that Dbos is better against groups when a NB can fight groups much better with Incap one by one. If you go full Rambo i know why you think stamnb is weak you try to force something that will not work because you are in a disadvantage.

You don't know every Trick if you don't hit atleast 8/10 incaps. You react to your enemy because he can't react to your incap if you AC it. The only reason your incap should miss is if you get unlucky with shuffle every other miss is a L2p issue on your side.

Ahhh. We are down to 8/10 now. Progress. Or maybe this is another completely fabricated number. Much like the time you claimed you killed 3 people in 10 seconds, with your Incap showing on every one of their recaps. I’ll clue you in on some things . If someone block cancels a skill at the same time I am Incapping. Blocked. If someone roll dodges the same time I AC cancel Incap. Dodged. Hell, I inadvertently block Incap all the time on my MagDK and Magplar, just from block canceling skills. This is the reality of it. And it happens with frustrating regularity. The only way to somewhat reliably land Incap is to Fear first, which renders the CC from Incap null and void.

I honestly don’t know what your getting at here. You say NB has too much burst? You obviously haven’t played against a good Stam Warden. If you are complaining about getting ganked then channel your uninformed and completely biased energy towards Focus Aim.

Stamden burst is not even close to stamblade burst. What does stamden have lmfaoooo, sub assault? Wrecking blow? Lol you’re full of bs. Incap is broken. If it wasn’t I wouldn’t use it on my MAGICKA nightblade over like 4 other possible ultimates.

Oh sweet! BohnT’s back up. WTF are you even talking about? Sub assault hitting in the same GCD as DBoS then Reverse Slice are about as nasty as it comes and this comes on a class with more group utility and great defensive options. As I’ve said before MagNB is top of the food chain 1v1 right now but gear sets and Merciless Resolve are as much to blame as anything. What I don’t want to see happen is StamNB get watered down into a class that really doesn’t bring anything to the PvP table anymore. Lmfaooo all you want but incap needs to stay as is.

So you’re saying that stamden has better burst than nb because of dawnbreaker? Did you really think this through?

Sub assault + 125 ult ability + finisher

Relentless + 75 ult ability + finisher

So basically, sub assault has a lower tooltip than relentless, dawnbreaker is more expensive than incap (and usually has a lower tooltip) but apparently stamden burst wins? Ok now I really don’t get it.

Stamden burst is telegraphed and easy to avoid. Outside their 125 ult burst window they do jack *** to you (especially if they run wrecking blow LOL), and if you’re smart you know how to play around that. The thing that makes stamden overpowered is not the burst, it is the passives. Burst is inferior to stamblade period.

Yes. I did think it through. Sub and DBoS can hit you in the same GCD where Incap and Relentless can’t. The cost of the ultimate is irrelevant to the amount of damage you can take in one second. Incap is easy to avoid too. So is the bow. Dizzying swing is easy to avoid on Stamina. Not so much on some Magic classes.

With the small difference that incap does more damage than Dbos and shalks do less damage than will. Also it doesn't matter if there is one gcd in between if you have a stun on one ability because the stun generally guarantees the next skill to hit.
Also if you survive wardens burst he can't do much to you for atleast 1 second, atleast 3 if you know how to counter dizzying, but as you said it's hard to avoid i start to realise why you say stamnb is balanced. You can simply walk through your enemy to avoid dizzying it doesn't even cost you anything to completely negate the ability. If you survive the stamnb burst however the nb has a spammable that hits harder than incap with 20% extra damage on all other damage aswell and even better you'll have major defile on you.

Stamwarden burst either kills you in the first hit or it takes atleast 3 seconds for the next burst to Kick in, stamnb either kills you in the first hit and if that doesn't work the next 6 seconds it will have even more pressure on you.

How do people really believe magblade doesn't need snare immunity and removal. A class that is based on mobility has to crutch on a two hand sword just to move in cyrodiil. That's ridiculous if you can't be mobile what's the point of playing magblade. Even with shade you'll waste all your stamina kiting away from your shade when someone is spamming you with roots. The fact that people really believe magblade doesn't need something to combat snares and roots leads me to believe that people just hate the class. A magblade should be just as mobile as a class wearing medium armor.

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.

I see you are still going strong on the nerf Nightblade campaign trail. Incap is a single target, dodgeable, and blockable ultimate. The defile is next to useless against shield users and the “low cost ultimate” often times translates into 140/210 ultimate after shuffles, blocks, and roll dodges are figured in. The defile only really hurts stamina (and not even Stamplar) and stamina has many tools to counter it. The stun and extra damage is on par with DBoS which is undodgeable, AOE, and has a DOT.

Nightblades have poor group utility (unlike every other class), no layered burst (unlike every other class aside from DK), and now you would see them have their single target effectiveness watered down even further.
If you were to have your way, why on earth would I ever play this class over a Stamplar, Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden, which offers so much more. Nightblades only claim to fame is strength in 1v1 and yet Stamblade is middle of the pack in this regard except against potatoes but who isn’t good against that.

if you fail to hit 9/10 incaps it's your fault. you ac it and no one will avoid it wiht block or dodge, that single miss is due to passive Evasion but a good nb will always hit you.
Summoning @Subversus to tell People which spec is currently dominating everything (small hint it's stamnb)
Stamnb is the only class with enough burst skills to don't care about delayed burst skills.
Incap into will is 20k damage without LA weaving who cares if i had another delayed burst skill that guy is dead as the following 5 seconds every SA will hit harder than that incap also he has defile on him.

i'm sure incap is on par with DBoS when every nb is running incap including magnbs why aren't they running dbos when it's just as good or even better as you say? Because it's not with incap you can kill an enemy in 2 gcds and that's what makes a class which can disengage at will too strong. A delayed skill wouldn't even be needed most of the time you end mayn of your fights in few gcds after you leave cloak there wouldn't even be time to wait for the delayed burst to happen.

LOL... Hitting Incap 9/10 times? This tells me everything I need to know about you. You are a tourist on the class. As I have stated before you rolled a Nightblade and immediately ran to the forums crying the class needs buffed. You dueled your buddy against his Nightblade then decided the class needed nerfed. Off to the forums you go. I’m not making this up. These were your own posts.

Incap is better single target then DBoS. As it should be for SINGLE target. DBoS is better against groups and in a group. Period. I know every trick for landing Incap and I assure you with shuffle, random roll dodges, lag, and people block canceling skills lightning fast, you are not anywhere near 9/10 Incaps landing.

You invent scenarios to support your argument and exaggerate to promote your agenda.

I'm not a tourist, i just like to see everything rather than others who just stick to NB and nothing else.
I rolled my nb in the pre beta and not later when NB got buffs.
I decided the class needs nerf in my eyes after playing every other spec in the class and then returning to stamnb. When i played stamnb only like you do i thought it was weak but it's not.

What does it help that Dbos is better against groups when a NB can fight groups much better with Incap one by one. If you go full Rambo i know why you think stamnb is weak you try to force something that will not work because you are in a disadvantage.

You don't know every Trick if you don't hit atleast 8/10 incaps. You react to your enemy because he can't react to your incap if you AC it. The only reason your incap should miss is if you get unlucky with shuffle every other miss is a L2p issue on your side.

Ahhh. We are down to 8/10 now. Progress. Or maybe this is another completely fabricated number. Much like the time you claimed you killed 3 people in 10 seconds, with your Incap showing on every one of their recaps. I’ll clue you in on some things . If someone block cancels a skill at the same time I am Incapping. Blocked. If someone roll dodges the same time I AC cancel Incap. Dodged. Hell, I inadvertently block Incap all the time on my MagDK and Magplar, just from block canceling skills. This is the reality of it. And it happens with frustrating regularity. The only way to somewhat reliably land Incap is to Fear first, which renders the CC from Incap null and void.

I honestly don’t know what your getting at here. You say NB has too much burst? You obviously haven’t played against a good Stam Warden. If you are complaining about getting ganked then channel your uninformed and completely biased energy towards Focus Aim.

Stamden burst is not even close to stamblade burst. What does stamden have lmfaoooo, sub assault? Wrecking blow? Lol you’re full of bs. Incap is broken. If it wasn’t I wouldn’t use it on my MAGICKA nightblade over like 4 other possible ultimates.

Oh sweet! BohnT’s back up. WTF are you even talking about? Sub assault hitting in the same GCD as DBoS then Reverse Slice are about as nasty as it comes and this comes on a class with more group utility and great defensive options. As I’ve said before MagNB is top of the food chain 1v1 right now but gear sets and Merciless Resolve are as much to blame as anything. What I don’t want to see happen is StamNB get watered down into a class that really doesn’t bring anything to the PvP table anymore. Lmfaooo all you want but incap needs to stay as is.

So you’re saying that stamden has better burst than nb because of dawnbreaker? Did you really think this through?

Sub assault + 125 ult ability + finisher

Relentless + 75 ult ability + finisher

So basically, sub assault has a lower tooltip than relentless, dawnbreaker is more expensive than incap (and usually has a lower tooltip) but apparently stamden burst wins? Ok now I really don’t get it.

Stamden burst is telegraphed and easy to avoid. Outside their 125 ult burst window they do jack *** to you (especially if they run wrecking blow LOL), and if you’re smart you know how to play around that. The thing that makes stamden overpowered is not the burst, it is the passives. Burst is inferior to stamblade period.

Yes. I did think it through. Sub and DBoS can hit you in the same GCD where Incap and Relentless can’t. The cost of the ultimate is irrelevant to the amount of damage you can take in one second. Incap is easy to avoid too. So is the bow. Dizzying swing is easy to avoid on Stamina. Not so much on some Magic classes.

With the small difference that incap does more damage than Dbos and shalks do less damage than will. Also it doesn't matter if there is one gcd in between if you have a stun on one ability because the stun generally guarantees the next skill to hit.
Also if you survive wardens burst he can't do much to you for atleast 1 second, atleast 3 if you know how to counter dizzying, but as you said it's hard to avoid i start to realise why you say stamnb is balanced. You can simply walk through your enemy to avoid dizzying it doesn't even cost you anything to completely negate the ability. If you survive the stamnb burst however the nb has a spammable that hits harder than incap with 20% extra damage on all other damage aswell and even better you'll have major defile on you.

Stamwarden burst either kills you in the first hit or it takes atleast 3 seconds for the next burst to Kick in, stamnb either kills you in the first hit and if that doesn't work the next 6 seconds it will have even more pressure on you.

Again. Completely fabricated numbers to support your argument. On top of that you present scenarios with omitted facts to make your case. You say Incap and Relentless do more than DBoS and Sub. For arguments sake let’s say that’s true. What you conveniently failed to mention is that Incap and Relentless Focus are hitting in 2 GCD’s where DBoS and Sub is hitting in 1. If you are going to compare 2 GCD’s worth of damage then do so for both classes. Which means adding in the Reverse Slice for StamWarden. Incap + Relentless vs. Sub Assault, DBoS and Reverse Slice. Very similar burst. DBoS also stuns so you are in the same boat for the Next GCD.

When you say Incap hits harder than DBoS this is completely made up. Fully spun up Fury builds, Ravager, etc, can hit crazy hard Dawnbreaker’s. Some builds run all damage, some builds run medium damage/medium sustain and for whatever reason, some people go for all sustain. Whatever the case the damage varies greatly from build to build. The StamNB hitting the super hard Incaps are the same ones you can roast when you catch them.

And don’t tell me you can walk through Dizzying swing like your letting me in on a secret lol. This is PvP 101. Every Stamwarden in the world is using some form of major expedition so sometimes it can get tricky on magic classes. This also doesn’t take into account fighting XvX, lag, other CC’s, snares and just plain old getting hit from behind. In whatever context, however you arrive at the combos, the numbers can be VERY similar. StamWarden is just one example of a class with similar burst. Stamplar with PoTL is another.

My contention is this shouldn’t be the case. The two above examples can produce similar damage and bring WAY more to a group. If we nerf Stamblade 1v1 burst to less than everything else WTF would I even play the class anymore.

As it stands now, when I duel StamNB on my MagDK or MagPlar, 90% of them don’t really concern me.