ZOS not engaging in any class feedback threads per PTS launch

Grimm13 · April 2018

repeatedly we see people saying the staff is reading these, or people wonder do they really.

Would be excellent is there was a tag that marked is any member of the staff reads the post. Does not have to count how many, just mark it once. Would go a hugely long way for customer confidence.

Avran_Sylt · April 2018

@Grimm13

Then every damned post would be flagged. Staff includes forum moderators.

Are you saying you want posts to be flagged if certain ZoS employees view them?

If anything, the least you'll get is only having posts marked with the [Z] symbol if the post is included in the dev tracker responses.

(This omits forum moderation implying that a post is being more observed by staff for the ideas present, rather than the obscenities present).

Grimm13 · April 2018

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Grimm13

Then every damned post would be flagged. Staff includes forum moderators.

Are you saying you want posts to be flagged if certain ZoS employees view them?

If anything, the least you'll get is only having posts marked with the [Z] symbol if the post is included in the dev tracker responses.

(This omits forum moderation implying that a post is being more observed by staff for the ideas present, rather than the obscenities present).

You're right not the best idea. It is just that frustrating having the wall of silence. Could not even be the cone ad that would be humorous at least.

axxlesoft_ESO · April 2018

"Something about the whole affair felt wrong to me, like warm water in an otherwise cool stream."

Slick_007 · April 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I think I have waited enough. I also believe wrobel and his team are biased. I honestly believe that, for real. As crazy as it sounds, I do not have any other explaination as to why my class gets completely ignored and doesn't get a single tweak over an entire year, I have no other way of explaining it, if you do, please share it with me.

my other theory is that they just don't know ANYTHING, about their own game.
Which one is worse? I honestly don't know.

did you ever think that maybe they dont respond to you because you make it clear you hate them? also they dont have to post to read your feedback and make changes that they think are necessary. and thats the thing. its changes THEY think are necessary because THEY have all the data. You can make suggestions, but if you think they must make changes because you said so, you need to go make your own game.

Sevn · April 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I think I have waited enough. I also believe wrobel and his team are biased. I honestly believe that, for real. As crazy as it sounds, I do not have any other explaination as to why my class gets completely ignored and doesn't get a single tweak over an entire year, I have no other way of explaining it, if you do, please share it with me.

my other theory is that they just don't know ANYTHING, about their own game.
Which one is worse? I honestly don't know.

did you ever think that maybe they dont respond to you because you make it clear you hate them? also they dont have to post to read your feedback and make changes that they think are necessary. and thats the thing. its changes THEY think are necessary because THEY have all the data. You can make suggestions, but if you think they must make changes because you said so, you need to go make your own game.

I actually wonder why so many armchair experts don't work for these gaming companies, surely someone with so much in depth knowledge should have zero issues getting hired?

They obviously know more about their product than those currently employed.

FlamingBeard · April 2018

Sevn wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I think I have waited enough. I also believe wrobel and his team are biased. I honestly believe that, for real. As crazy as it sounds, I do not have any other explaination as to why my class gets completely ignored and doesn't get a single tweak over an entire year, I have no other way of explaining it, if you do, please share it with me.

my other theory is that they just don't know ANYTHING, about their own game.
Which one is worse? I honestly don't know.

did you ever think that maybe they dont respond to you because you make it clear you hate them? also they dont have to post to read your feedback and make changes that they think are necessary. and thats the thing. its changes THEY think are necessary because THEY have all the data. You can make suggestions, but if you think they must make changes because you said so, you need to go make your own game.

I actually wonder why so many armchair experts don't work for these gaming companies, surely someone with so much in depth knowledge should have zero issues getting hired?

They obviously know more about their product than those currently employed.

The devs at ZOS can't even clear their own hard mode PvE content (both Dragon Bones dungeons, vAS+2, etc) and yet you sit here and give ZOS devs more credit than players who know those places inside and out and request balance changes or bug fixes and are ignored for entire PTS cycles (such as the vAS+2 exploit that saw dozens of players banned a few months back, even though the bug was reported during PTS).

How about less white-knighting, and more contribution?

Anti_Virus · April 2018

As I've stated in other threads I believe the devs do read these threads but 99% of the time they don't consider your feedback because they have their own set path for combat balance.

For example people have been asking for stamDK changes for over a year now and no changes occured, you should get the message that the combat team clearly seems to be content with the state of stam dk despite popular forum opinion. Or when they removed the stun from c-frags, added and extra explosion to curse even though no one asked for this change.

This is fine it's their game after all but it would best if they communicated why they would or wouldn't make X,Y or Z change.

But don't fret ever so often they do take community feedback into consideration. I remeber when Rich Lambert appeared on ESO live and said that Radiant Destruction and morphs were fine despite community stating otherwise it was finally nerfed next patch.

Alcast · April 2018

Only because they do not respond, does not mean they do not listen. They read all the feedback (or lets just call it QQ, because that is what 90% of threads are in here).

Whenever a dev comments on smth, like 200 ppl jump on them and tag them, so I would also not post anything here, but just watch and reach.

Subversus · April 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Generally they don't post in them, if they do it's just clarification from Gina or Jess.

You have to wait until future updates to see what's been heard. Wrobel and his team are no doubt reading them though.

I think I read this the wrong way. Did you claim that Wrobel, as in lead combat designer of ESO, actually reads feedback posts on the forums? After all these years? LUL

schattenkind · April 2018

@Mods
I suggest a sticky thread with a list of collected reported bugs / issues.

There are so many people posting stuff, many many issues are posted multiple times, often in several own threads for the exact same thing and after only almost a week it is impossible to keep track of what is been posted already and what not. And yet there are few more weeks to go...

Obviously some people are too lazy / dont have time to search the official bug threads or they just cant find the postings, as there are thousands already...

We know, you cant change people - but you can help by giving a sticky with all gathered infos, which might reduce the amount of reposting stuff all over.
Having more overview would save a lot of us and you precious time.

Also, it would show that the posts have been noticed. So it would be a win / win for all of us.

Please consider helping us all.

zParallaxz · April 2018

Sevn wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I think I have waited enough. I also believe wrobel and his team are biased. I honestly believe that, for real. As crazy as it sounds, I do not have any other explaination as to why my class gets completely ignored and doesn't get a single tweak over an entire year, I have no other way of explaining it, if you do, please share it with me.

my other theory is that they just don't know ANYTHING, about their own game.
Which one is worse? I honestly don't know.

did you ever think that maybe they dont respond to you because you make it clear you hate them? also they dont have to post to read your feedback and make changes that they think are necessary. and thats the thing. its changes THEY think are necessary because THEY have all the data. You can make suggestions, but if you think they must make changes because you said so, you need to go make your own game.

I actually wonder why so many armchair experts don't work for these gaming companies, surely someone with so much in depth knowledge should have zero issues getting hired?

They obviously know more about their product than those currently employed.

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I think I have waited enough. I also believe wrobel and his team are biased. I honestly believe that, for real. As crazy as it sounds, I do not have any other explaination as to why my class gets completely ignored and doesn't get a single tweak over an entire year, I have no other way of explaining it, if you do, please share it with me.

my other theory is that they just don't know ANYTHING, about their own game.
Which one is worse? I honestly don't know.

did you ever think that maybe they dont respond to you because you make it clear you hate them? also they dont have to post to read your feedback and make changes that they think are necessary. and thats the thing. its changes THEY think are necessary because THEY have all the data. You can make suggestions, but if you think they must make changes because you said so, you need to go make your own game.

I actually wonder why so many armchair experts don't work for these gaming companies, surely someone with so much in depth knowledge should have zero issues getting hired?

They obviously know more about their product than those currently employed.

The devs at ZOS can't even clear their own hard mode PvE content (both Dragon Bones dungeons, vAS+2, etc) and yet you sit here and give ZOS devs more credit than players who know those places inside and out and request balance changes or bug fixes and are ignored for entire PTS cycles (such as the vAS+2 exploit that saw dozens of players banned a few months back, even though the bug was reported during PTS).

How about less white-knighting, and more contribution?

Lol u basically just said any developers who make a game are somehow inherently better at the game than people who play it more. Pretty sure every game that’s ever been released has players who are better at the game than the developers. Seriously bro stop wanking Zos, take that white knight role player some where else.

MaxwellC · April 2018

@Alcast
I get your point but again as I stated before you do not need to adhere to one players' comment but rather just make a broad statement e.g."Interesting feedback" or "lurk". The developers are listening is something I take with a grain of salt especially when players who have been commenting on how PvP Stamina DK is performing from 3-4 PTS ago still have the same issue this time around i.e it just sucks to be one in PvP.

You are right that 90% of the thread is pretty much QQ heck even I've made my QQ threads about changes but that stems from the same issue still being there even when players have made feedback about that issue(s) years ago. I can see if I'm the only one harping about it but no it's a pretty large group even asking players in zone chat in PvP (on console) most have either switched to Mag DK or gone to warden.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2018

Gonna say it again.....if the fully seperate PvE from PvP they’d be in a better position. Anything you do is going to touch another group. It’s a bad strategy and the comments of you can’t please everyone.......true but your upsetting so many so frequently, at least work to please a large majority for 18 months

Alcast · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Alcast
I get your point but again as I stated before you do not need to adhere to one players' comment but rather just make a broad statement e.g."Interesting feedback" or "lurk". The developers are listening is something I take with a grain of salt especially when players who have been commenting on how PvP Stamina DK is performing from 3-4 PTS ago still have the same issue this time around i.e it just sucks to be one in PvP.

You are right that 90% of the thread is pretty much QQ heck even I've made my QQ threads about changes but that stems from the same issue still being there even when players have made feedback about that issue(s) years ago. I can see if I'm the only one harping about it but no it's a pretty large group even asking players in zone chat in PvP (on console) most have either switched to Mag DK or gone to warden.

Ye, that is true. I also would like to see the devs explain some changes better and what their thoughts are. Tho tbh, if they would explain, we would be like "wait what? Why..how..." xD

atm I am already happy that they finally have a lead gameplay designer again....

jeskah · April 2018

Alcast wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Alcast
I get your point but again as I stated before you do not need to adhere to one players' comment but rather just make a broad statement e.g."Interesting feedback" or "lurk". The developers are listening is something I take with a grain of salt especially when players who have been commenting on how PvP Stamina DK is performing from 3-4 PTS ago still have the same issue this time around i.e it just sucks to be one in PvP.

You are right that 90% of the thread is pretty much QQ heck even I've made my QQ threads about changes but that stems from the same issue still being there even when players have made feedback about that issue(s) years ago. I can see if I'm the only one harping about it but no it's a pretty large group even asking players in zone chat in PvP (on console) most have either switched to Mag DK or gone to warden.

Ye, that is true. I also would like to see the devs explain some changes better and what their thoughts are. Tho tbh, if they would explain, we would be like "wait what? Why..how..." xD

atm I am already happy that they finally have a lead gameplay designer again....

What? They did not have it before? Damn... For how long did he work?

Alcast · April 2018

jeskah wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Alcast
I get your point but again as I stated before you do not need to adhere to one players' comment but rather just make a broad statement e.g."Interesting feedback" or "lurk". The developers are listening is something I take with a grain of salt especially when players who have been commenting on how PvP Stamina DK is performing from 3-4 PTS ago still have the same issue this time around i.e it just sucks to be one in PvP.

You are right that 90% of the thread is pretty much QQ heck even I've made my QQ threads about changes but that stems from the same issue still being there even when players have made feedback about that issue(s) years ago. I can see if I'm the only one harping about it but no it's a pretty large group even asking players in zone chat in PvP (on console) most have either switched to Mag DK or gone to warden.

Ye, that is true. I also would like to see the devs explain some changes better and what their thoughts are. Tho tbh, if they would explain, we would be like "wait what? Why..how..." xD

atm I am already happy that they finally have a lead gameplay designer again....

What? They did not have it before? Damn... For how long did he work?

iirc Lambert used to be Gameplay lead dev, but he got promoted to Creative Directer like 2 years ago?, and since then the job was vacant.

jeskah · April 2018

Alcast wrote: »

jeskah wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Alcast
I get your point but again as I stated before you do not need to adhere to one players' comment but rather just make a broad statement e.g."Interesting feedback" or "lurk". The developers are listening is something I take with a grain of salt especially when players who have been commenting on how PvP Stamina DK is performing from 3-4 PTS ago still have the same issue this time around i.e it just sucks to be one in PvP.

You are right that 90% of the thread is pretty much QQ heck even I've made my QQ threads about changes but that stems from the same issue still being there even when players have made feedback about that issue(s) years ago. I can see if I'm the only one harping about it but no it's a pretty large group even asking players in zone chat in PvP (on console) most have either switched to Mag DK or gone to warden.

Ye, that is true. I also would like to see the devs explain some changes better and what their thoughts are. Tho tbh, if they would explain, we would be like "wait what? Why..how..." xD

atm I am already happy that they finally have a lead gameplay designer again....

What? They did not have it before? Damn... For how long did he work?

iirc Lambert used to be Gameplay lead dev, but he got promoted to Creative Directer like 2 years ago?, and since then the job was vacant.

I see, thanks.

Numerikuu · April 2018

Considering with what happened last year in regards to Morrowind? I'm not surprised in the slightest. I don't expect things to change for the better either. However, if they do? I'll eat my mouse and keyboard.

TequilaFire · April 2018

@ZOS_RichLambert bring back \lurk!

usmguy1234 · April 2018

Turelus wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I know Zos selected class representatives. They should be acting as liaisons compiling the data from these threads and presenting them to Zos. The class representatives should be informing the masses on the feedback from Zos. This seems to be the most logical flow of data. I think calling out Zos for not commenting on these threads is a little undue.

I don't believe they've been chosen yet, if they have it's not public yet.

If that is the case Zos needs to step up and get the ball rolling.

I'm fine if they don't rush this and actually look into the people they choose rather than getting it done fast to appease the masses. I want quality and professional people chosen.

I think you are making it more difficult than it needs to be. I can appreciate the need for quality candidates. I bet if you think about every class you could name people who would do the job and be great at it. I can do that as a forum lurker of less than a few months.

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Generally they don't post in them, if they do it's just clarification from Gina or Jess.

You have to wait until future updates to see what's been heard. Wrobel and his team are no doubt reading them though.

I think I have waited enough. I also believe wrobel and his team are biased. I honestly believe that, for real. As crazy as it sounds, I do not have any other explaination as to why my class gets completely ignored and doesn't get a single tweak over an entire year, I have no other way of explaining it, if you do, please share it with me.

EVE Online devs actively reply in threads on development. They still "cherry pick" and "ignore feedback"
If that's how you feel then you're not going to be appeased unless they do exactly what you want, which may not fit the direction they want the game to go in.
We'll also have class reps by the next update to help with direction of feedback.

So after waiting for a full year, you're telling me to wait even more. I'm sorry but it is too late for class reps or whatever. Well at least, too late after the trick they pulled off with summerset.

I would be actually fine with waiting if they didn't literally force me into buying summerset, with the way they implemented jewelrycrafting and new skill line, but now that Its literally ''buy summerset or be left behind'',so I have made my mind.

I'm sadly done with ESO.(no, you can't have my stuff), Just waiting for some miracle fix or something(though knowing its childish at this point), just any clue to show me that they actually read or care, anything. I've been waiting for ZOS to throw me a small bone for like a year now.

They don't deserve my support, for real, they don't. Or maybe I'm really bad at understanding their perspective. Who knows. they never bothered explaining to me.

As I said you're not going to be happy because you're looking for the developers to appease your desires and ignoring all the other desires they've appeased and opinions they've listened to in the past.

You've made up your mind and are just venting frustrations at this point.

I do agree that it is childish to expect devs to do everything as I want. I do not wish anything special for myself. I just wanted my stamDK to be treated the very same way others are treated. Equally.

It seems like taking a few months of break will make me see better, so we will see if my opinion in this changes.

Before going, one thing I would like to make clear that devs or you lucky part of community does not understand.

When a bad change is done, the people who rage against it, are the ones who love that part of the game. Whether the change is right or wrong, A person will not rage over a video game, unless he/she really cares about it and feels the changes are deeply wrong. People that do not care about a game will simply play something else.

When the day comes that people aren't scared of patch notes, but waiting eagerly for it, will be the day that these forums will not have a single QQ post.

Will day they come? Can pigs fly? we'll see.

starkerealm · April 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Generally they don't post in them, if they do it's just clarification from Gina or Jess.

You have to wait until future updates to see what's been heard. Wrobel and his team are no doubt reading them though.

I think I have waited enough. I also believe wrobel and his team are biased. I honestly believe that, for real. As crazy as it sounds, I do not have any other explaination as to why my class gets completely ignored and doesn't get a single tweak over an entire year, I have no other way of explaining it, if you do, please share it with me.

my other theory is that they just don't know ANYTHING, about their own game.
Which one is worse? I honestly don't know.

Which class? All of the original four are getting major changes with Summerset.

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Generally they don't post in them, if they do it's just clarification from Gina or Jess.

You have to wait until future updates to see what's been heard. Wrobel and his team are no doubt reading them though.

I think I have waited enough. I also believe wrobel and his team are biased. I honestly believe that, for real. As crazy as it sounds, I do not have any other explaination as to why my class gets completely ignored and doesn't get a single tweak over an entire year, I have no other way of explaining it, if you do, please share it with me.

my other theory is that they just don't know ANYTHING, about their own game.
Which one is worse? I honestly don't know.

Which class? All of the original four are getting major changes with Summerset.

Kind of obvious for people who know me, I'm a long time stamDk main. With summerset I'm getting I think about 2 seconds of extra major mending, and a ''poor man's bloodthorn'' passive that probably will not proc %70 of the time due to how status effects work.

in the end, my point for an entire year was that stamDk is just a mere shadow of stamden, and even with all the changes, it still stands that way. My post was to refer what happened pre-summerset. As with summerset we definitely got some changes.

starkerealm · April 2018

Subversus wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Generally they don't post in them, if they do it's just clarification from Gina or Jess.

You have to wait until future updates to see what's been heard. Wrobel and his team are no doubt reading them though.

I think I read this the wrong way. Did you claim that Wrobel, as in lead combat designer of ESO, actually reads feedback posts on the forums? After all these years? LUL

Either that, or his psychic powers are growing to truly frightening levels.

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Generally they don't post in them, if they do it's just clarification from Gina or Jess.

You have to wait until future updates to see what's been heard. Wrobel and his team are no doubt reading them though.

I think I read this the wrong way. Did you claim that Wrobel, as in lead combat designer of ESO, actually reads feedback posts on the forums? After all these years? LUL

Either that, or his psychic powers are growing to truly frightening levels.

Its probably the beard granting him telepathic powers, beyond one's imagination.

legends say he reads your thoughts and sees into future.

starkerealm · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Alcast
I get your point but again as I stated before you do not need to adhere to one players' comment but rather just make a broad statement e.g."Interesting feedback" or "lurk". The developers are listening is something I take with a grain of salt especially when players who have been commenting on how PvP Stamina DK is performing from 3-4 PTS ago still have the same issue this time around i.e it just sucks to be one in PvP.

You are right that 90% of the thread is pretty much QQ heck even I've made my QQ threads about changes but that stems from the same issue still being there even when players have made feedback about that issue(s) years ago. I can see if I'm the only one harping about it but no it's a pretty large group even asking players in zone chat in PvP (on console) most have either switched to Mag DK or gone to warden.

@MaxwellC, it's also worth remembering that, sometimes, we are wrong. There's a few common knowledge assumptions floating around in the community that aren't really supported by in depth statistical analysis.

Where it legitimately sucks is when you've got guilds, and peer pressure, pushing people away from viable options because, "everyone knows that's a garbage build now."

Hell, I had a guildie who could, legitimately, pull +50k on a StamKnight, who was being told, "no, bring something useful," by another guild two weeks ago.

Since CWC, consistently, my highest DPS parses have been on a freakin' Breton StamKnight. This isn't a class that's been suffering in functionality. It's a class that's been getting slapped around by the community because, "everyone knows," it under-performs.

Carbonised · April 2018

@starkerealm @Alcast

Yet what happened to all that feedback that was given at the player summit not long ago? I see that none of it made it to the PTS, since the PTS patch notes are exact copies of what the participating players teased us with when they came back from there.

Sure, things can take time, but Summerset was supposed to be the big, balancing update, and yet none of the feedback from the summit was apparently taken into account when we got the PTS.
It's stuff like that that makes someone a bit sceptical when we hear the trite old "we hear you".

MaxwellC · April 2018

@starkerealm I never mentioned anything about the sDK in PvE content but actually I've stated that "Stamina DK in PvE is preforms well while Stamina DK in PvP still sucks".

I'm not saying I'm always 100% correct but if there's a general consensus about sDK performing in PvP then I'd assume that to be an better representation of how the class is performing. In PvP I rarely see a sDK (aside from myself) and when I do they're always cruch on bloodspawn because that's the best they've got. I don't rock proc sets but the lack of anything other than wrecking blow take flight is pretty sad.

People have expressed their opinions about sDK in PvP and as I stated it has been unanimously ignored even when we fought back against the helping hands change in droves, that too was ignored.

Edit: I should add wrecking blow take flight will soon disappear just to make the new skill line ability "imbue" more appealing as empower now only benefits light attacks rather than all abilities... So that is another nerf. This thread isn't solely about my Stamina DK if I might add, this is solely about the lack of engagement or acknowledgement of the feedback players have put in the threads which ZOS has requested feedback for this upcoming chapter.

starkerealm · April 2018

Carbonised wrote: »

@starkerealm @Alcast

Yet what happened to all that feedback that was given at the player summit not long ago? I see that none of it made it to the PTS, since the PTS patch notes are exact copies of what the participating players teased us with when they came back from there.

Sure, things can take time, but Summerset was supposed to be the big, balancing update, and yet none of the feedback from the summit was apparently taken into account when we got the PTS.
It's stuff like that that makes someone a bit sceptical when we hear the trite old "we hear you".

That's actually not true. Ryan and I have found a couple suggestions that did make it into the current build. Among other things the changes to Hircine's Veneer, and Bursting Vines' cooldown were based on feedback. Silver Leash's change may have been feedback, though Wrobel did say they were already considering making changes like that to the ability. Given that Hiricine's and Leash did not make the patch notes, I'm inclined to think those may have been the result of feedback.

Also worth noting that some of the feedback given will take a bit longer to implement. So you probably won't see it with Summerset.