ZOS not engaging in any class feedback threads per PTS launch

Raz415 · April 2018

The forums are a cesspool tbh, we should be ashamed. Most of the posts do not provide any constructive feedback at all. I wouldn't hold it against them if they listened to feedback from pros or from internal beta testers, and just sent someone to try and gather something useful from this dung pile.

aeowulf · April 2018

Sabbathius wrote: »

ESO is the only MMO I ever played, and I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online, and MUDs before that, where I'm actually *dreading* patch notes of major patches and expansions, instead of looking forward to them.

I feel exactly the same way.

I dreaded Morrowind, it removed NB tanks. (my class-role at the time)

I'm dreading Summerset, bolstering darkness is seeing a 50% mitigation reduction and a dration decrease, strife is seeing a 50% cost increase to balance with force pulse (which has a ton of + damage/status effect etc passives vs strife which does not). Initial testing has also shown 100% uptime on minor maim is lost from shades, in favour of AE.

Was meant to help the underplayed class-roles, not hurt them. I was looking forward to dusting off my NB tank until the notes were released

Mihael · April 2018

I feel like they should respond to some of the constructive threads so that way they can explain why that idea could be good/bad and if it’s bad the players can stop arguing about it and instead focus on a new better solution

Valkysas154 · April 2018

That's just how they are unless it something major like
Hews bane nude/small head bug they don't really care what gets past pts

Been bugging the sitting bug since MW PTS !

jmgrant44ub17_ESO · April 2018

They believe in their people and their mission to impact the bottom line and when you think you're smarter than everybody else, what's the old saying? When you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all.

zParallaxz · April 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Generally they don't post in them, if they do it's just clarification from Gina or Jess.

You have to wait until future updates to see what's been heard. Wrobel and his team are no doubt reading them though.

I think I have waited enough. I also believe wrobel and his team are biased. I honestly believe that, for real. As crazy as it sounds, I do not have any other explaination as to why my class gets completely ignored and doesn't get a single tweak over an entire year, I have no other way of explaining it, if you do, please share it with me.

EVE Online devs actively reply in threads on development. They still "cherry pick" and "ignore feedback"
If that's how you feel then you're not going to be appeased unless they do exactly what you want, which may not fit the direction they want the game to go in.
We'll also have class reps by the next update to help with direction of feedback.

So after waiting for a full year, you're telling me to wait even more. I'm sorry but it is too late for class reps or whatever. Well at least, too late after the trick they pulled off with summerset.

I would be actually fine with waiting if they didn't literally force me into buying summerset, with the way they implemented jewelrycrafting and new skill line, but now that Its literally ''buy summerset or be left behind'',so I have made my mind.

I'm sadly done with ESO.(no, you can't have my stuff), Just waiting for some miracle fix or something(though knowing its childish at this point), just any clue to show me that they actually read or care, anything. I've been waiting for ZOS to throw me a small bone for like a year now.

They don't deserve my support, for real, they don't. Or maybe I'm really bad at understanding their perspective. Who knows. they never bothered explaining to me.

Turelus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Generally they don't post in them, if they do it's just clarification from Gina or Jess.

You have to wait until future updates to see what's been heard. Wrobel and his team are no doubt reading them though.

I think I have waited enough. I also believe wrobel and his team are biased. I honestly believe that, for real. As crazy as it sounds, I do not have any other explaination as to why my class gets completely ignored and doesn't get a single tweak over an entire year, I have no other way of explaining it, if you do, please share it with me.

EVE Online devs actively reply in threads on development. They still "cherry pick" and "ignore feedback"
If that's how you feel then you're not going to be appeased unless they do exactly what you want, which may not fit the direction they want the game to go in.
We'll also have class reps by the next update to help with direction of feedback.

So after waiting for a full year, you're telling me to wait even more. I'm sorry but it is too late for class reps or whatever. Well at least, too late after the trick they pulled off with summerset.

I would be actually fine with waiting if they didn't literally force me into buying summerset, with the way they implemented jewelrycrafting and new skill line, but now that Its literally ''buy summerset or be left behind'',so I have made my mind.

I'm sadly done with ESO.(no, you can't have my stuff), Just waiting for some miracle fix or something(though knowing its childish at this point), just any clue to show me that they actually read or care, anything. I've been waiting for ZOS to throw me a small bone for like a year now.

They don't deserve my support, for real, they don't. Or maybe I'm really bad at understanding their perspective. Who knows. they never bothered explaining to me.

As I said you're not going to be happy because you're looking for the developers to appease your desires and ignoring all the other desires they've appeased and opinions they've listened to in the past.

You've made up your mind and are just venting frustrations at this point.

The problem here that everyone knows is that they never make a drastic change in pts even when the consensus of people want a certain change. Case in point, I bet 200$ they won’t add snare immunity to wings even when it’s logical to HAVE it. This same old lip service of “oh use the pts to help fine tune the patches so everyone likes the changes” only to see that nothing has changed from the first version of pts except lower/higher cool downs, more/less damage to a skill, shorter/longer durations, and then a random nerf no one asked for I.e frag stun. To sum it up we won’t see reworks of skills or passives just duration changes guaranteed.
Lol on top of saying we will balance combat more next patch in the upcoming 3+ months. This bs has been happening for a couple years.

Sevn · April 2018

Most folks idea of "constructive criticism" is nicely asking to revert any and all changes. Most feedback is completely biased and solely focused on a singular narrow view, not how it might work in a broader sense within the game.

Perfect example, nerf cloak, pve be damn! Or no one uses cloak in pve anyway! Says who? It's essential to my money making habits.

zParallaxz · April 2018

Sevn wrote: »

Most folks idea of "constructive criticism" is nicely asking to revert any and all changes. Most feedback is completely biased and solely focused on a singular narrow view, not how it might work in a broader sense within the game.

Perfect example, nerf cloak, pve be damn! Or no one uses cloak in pve anyway! Says who? It's essential to my money making habits.

............ yeah let’s not nerf cloak because of the 5 cp 120s who use it in pve quest to avoid enemies. That’s was such a redundant post lol get out bro.

Sevn · April 2018

zParallaxz wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Most folks idea of "constructive criticism" is nicely asking to revert any and all changes. Most feedback is completely biased and solely focused on a singular narrow view, not how it might work in a broader sense within the game.

Perfect example, nerf cloak, pve be damn! Or no one uses cloak in pve anyway! Says who? It's essential to my money making habits.

............ yeah let’s not nerf cloak because of the 5 cp 120s who use it in pve quest to avoid enemies. That’s was such a redundant post lol get out bro.

Thx for proving my point, bro.

MaxwellC · April 2018

Like I said I understand that they can't comment but in every class feedback thread, everyone has given their feedback based on their own perspectives.
There has been no comment on those threads giving at-least one sign of "Hey we hear you" or any sort of acknowledgement and that is pretty annoying because last patch Stamina DKs like myself spoke on the PTS and we didn't get anything that we argued for but you could argue we got the opposite.

So in short I'm just tired of the lack of communication on feedback threads regarding our classes when they want us to provide feedback or at-least that is the appearance because the actions are contradictory to said appearance. It seems they would rather listen to streamers who have no clue about how a DK would preform in PvP e.g. a streamer arguing stonefists' changes were amazing when they are still pathetic and terrible.

Sevn · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

Like I said I understand that they can't comment but in every class feedback thread, everyone has given their feedback based on their own perspectives.
There has been no comment on those threads giving at-least one sign of "Hey we hear you" or any sort of acknowledgement and that is pretty annoying because last patch Stamina DKs like myself spoke on the PTS and we didn't get anything that we argued for but you could argue we got the opposite.

So in short I'm just tired of the lack of communication on feedback threads regarding our classes when they want us to provide feedback or at-least that is the appearance because the actions are contradictory to said appearance. It seems they would rather listen to streamers who have no clue about how a DK would preform in PvP e.g. a streamer arguing stonefists' changes were amazing when they are still pathetic and terrible.

Just a question, please don't take offense, what makes you an expert on how dks should preform in PvP but not these streamers, or anyone else for that matter?

What factual evidence are you using to justify this statement?

MaxwellC · April 2018

@Sevn
Not sure where in my statement that you quoted or in this entire thread have I stated that I'm an expert but I'm definitely claiming that just because you're a streamer doesn't make you one either.

Also you can put 'please don't take offense' but the way you worded it is clearly offensive and then to ask me to provide 'factual evidence' to a(n) opinion is weird especially when it's my opinion in that particular statement you quoted which was directed at stonefist.

Lastly to touch on that evidence part I could first state that I have tested both Stam/Mag DK in the PTS and that particular skill still sucks. You can probably say "Well you don't play the DK often and that streamer is awesome" and I would say that I've only played this class since I got the game back in late 2014 PC (technically on my mates account before I got my own account) then I bought the game in early 2015 for console when it came out. PvP wise I'm strictly a solo player with nearly 70k kills and almost a warlord (so that kill ratio to AP shows I didn't boost nor did I bomb on my Stam DK). I also have nearly 200 days played solely on this class.
So that would imply I have pretty good knowledge on the only class I play in terms of it's weaknesses and strengths.

Sevn · April 2018

@MaxwellC

Sigh. Clearly I failed at not offended you so I'll not even try not to moving forward.

Point#1
I never said you claimed to be an expert, however, since you've admittedly acknowledged you're not an expert why should your OPINION hold any weight whatsoever?

Point#2
I'm glad you stated it was your opinion. Again, what makes YOUR opinion more valid than another's, streamer or not? Why should ZOS listen to your bias opinion over another bias opinion?

Glad you laid out your dk resume, should someone who has twice as much time playing dk, streamer or not, and can break down every aspect of dk's strengths and weaknesses using more than just their rank/kill count to support their argument, but have a different opinion have theirs dismissed in favor of yours? (Note- I am not speaking of myself, I am speaking in general)

What say you?

templesus · April 2018

Narvuntien wrote: »

Why would you?.... its a hive of scum and negativity.

If you made a game and whenever you made a change at least 50% of your players hate you.. no matter what you do. You learn to ignore them. If you tried to please everyone you'd quickly go insane (see all politicians)

People need to learn to give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Part of giving effective criticism is that you have to show that you are in line with their vision but want them to achieve their goals more effectively.

"I see what you are trying to do but I think if you did this it will be more effective". If all you do is say "NO! change it back! right now!" you're a hater and will be dismissed.

That’s not a valid excuse when you make changes nobody asked for, and that nobody ever complained about. Last I checked, NOBODY complained about the CC from blazing spear, and they still took it away. The negative feedback they receive from changes like that are on them.

MaxwellC · April 2018

@Sevn
No need to sign because you weren't really trying to hold back in the first place but carrying on.

You literally asked what makes me an expert which is implying that I am one. I did later imply that I'm an expert of the DK class in terms of PvP but PvE wise I do not feel that I'm close since I don't participate in PvE as much unless the GM pleads with me to do so.
My opinion should hold weight because it seems a lot of players on the feedback thread agree that the current PTS form and live form of stonefist is indeed useless. This argument regarding stonefist in general dates way back to thieves guild which I have again voiced my idea about how the ability will remain terrible. I gave a representation of my time as a DK with stats to bolster the notion that I do have a pretty good concept about this class in general. I could point to my trial times as every role (Tank, Healer, DD) or I could point to my PvP kills/notoriety with the NA community (although that may be because of my name and the amount of times I've became Emperor - 15 or so).

My opinion is more valid because that ability is indeed useless in PvP or PvE. You're more than welcome to ask players in the feedback thread as to why it is useless or go on your platform and ask zone chat if any DK feels those two abilities are in anyway useful.

Regarding your last comment I do not understand as it is a run on. I cannot tell if you're asking a hypothetical scenario that suits that situation you laid out or if you're just giving me a rhetorical question.

Lastly this conversation started because of me mentioning a streamers' comment regarding a(n) ability which showed me that they didn't know what they're talking about especially after testing it with others on the PTS and after using it on the live version of the game.
Imagine having a streamer say that "Dragon Knights new snare removal wings are perfect as they are" but when you test it you see that they are indeed noway near point and is a terrible change if not granted an immunity. What if the general consensus of the feedback thread agreed with your opinion countering that streamers' remark? Are you implying that everyone who voiced opposition to that streamers' opinion is indeed wrong or misguided?

MaxwellC · April 2018

@Sevn
With that answering your questions I'll like to remain on topic i.e the topic of this thread (ZOS not engaging in any class feedback threads per PTS launch Bookmark). If you wish to continue you may do so but I will not as I do not need this thread to be derailed over this conversation.

Thanks in advance.

Sevn · April 2018

It was hypothetical. I wasn't even referring to stonefist, but the entire class. Haven't mentioned stonefist a single time though you continue to.

You are right though, I'll let this bias opinionated thread trying to pass as objective fall off the front page and die as should.

templesus · April 2018

^ is there a reason y’all are arguing over something so meaningless on forums designed to provoke change? Cry me a river, build a bridge, then get over it.

MaxwellC · April 2018

@templesus
Which is why I stopped, his initial remarks were nothing more than a provocation and after the 2nd response I already knew the game.
So sorry you had to see that but let's continue about the topic at hand which is the lack of acknowledgement and if everyone's feedback is actually being looked at or if anything ideas are being made off of the comments by those who have tested the changes.

axxlesoft_ESO · April 2018

This thread is a cry for attention. If the devs like your ideas, then they will put it in game... eventually. I can't imagine a better compliment than that. What kind of validation are you looking for from the forum moderators: "Oh your ideas are so brilliant. You're amazing. Come work for us." lmao. You know what, you are amazing and I love you all. Happy?

MaxwellC · April 2018

@axxlesoft_ESO
No you misinterpreted the thread, the thread is simply a request for the developers to acknowledge our ideas. Last PTS they commented on some of the feedback threads but this one they haven't.

If we provide feedback I just feel we should at-least get a response like "I hear you" or "we'll see" even a lurk would be nice so we know we're not talking to a wall.
The way your wrote your sentence is hyperbole to say the least no one is asking for a pat on the back but simply a comment on the feedback thread showing that our work isn't for nothing.

Marcus684 · April 2018

Lol. IMO, this thread illustrates precisely why devs don’t chime in more regularly on forum threads. I don’t think they create these feedback threads for people to whine about their pet peeves or to seek validation of their l33t-ness. In spite of what a lot of people think, your one opinion doesn’t count more than anyone else’s, no matter how long you’ve been playing or how many others you think share your opinion. The devs have their own criteria and goals for what they do, and to claim that you know more than they do or that they are incompetent is the height of arrogance.

MaxwellC · April 2018

@Marcus684
Who is claiming that they know more than they do? No one has nor have I so again with this hyperbolic statements, please take that elsewhere.
People want some recoginition that their feedback or at-least someone in the feedback thread actually had one of them comment on it because it shows they're looking at it.
I stated even a lurk (something some ZOS employees use to state that they're actively reading said thread) would have suffice because each PTS there seems to be a lot of people saying X is bad but as soon as it hits live X is still there with no changes.

I don't get people like you or the other guy, you post exaggerated comments about what this thread is suppose to mean even though I clearly laid out that I just want a developer to acknowledge that they're reading it. This just comes off as white knighting a reasonable request because thou shalt not question the developer.

zParallaxz · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Marcus684
Who is claiming that they know more than they do? No one has nor have I so again with this hyperbolic statements, please take that elsewhere.
People want some recoginition that their feedback or at-least someone in the feedback thread actually had one of them comment on it because it shows they're looking at it.
I stated even a lurk (something some ZOS employees use to state that they're actively reading said thread) would have suffice because each PTS there seems to be a lot of people saying X is bad but as soon as it hits live X is still there with no changes.

I don't get people like you or the other guy, you post exaggerated comments about what this thread is suppose to mean even though I clearly laid out that I just want a developer to acknowledge that they're reading it. This just comes off as white knighting a reasonable request because thou shalt not question the developer.

Some people like to role play as a white knight bro in game and irl. Most people who have played this game for 2-3 years have seen first hand the example of people wanting a major change in pts in its first week, second week see nothing new with others saying,” guys it’s only the second week of pts I’m sure they’ll change or balance it before live”. I’m getting tired of the same shtick they use year after year.

axxlesoft_ESO · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Marcus684
...I just want a developer to acknowledge that they're reading it.

wah

Turelus · April 2018

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I know Zos selected class representatives. They should be acting as liaisons compiling the data from these threads and presenting them to Zos. The class representatives should be informing the masses on the feedback from Zos. This seems to be the most logical flow of data. I think calling out Zos for not commenting on these threads is a little undue.

I don't believe they've been chosen yet, if they have it's not public yet.

If that is the case Zos needs to step up and get the ball rolling.

I'm fine if they don't rush this and actually look into the people they choose rather than getting it done fast to appease the masses. I want quality and professional people chosen.

Marcus684 · April 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Marcus684
Who is claiming that they know more than they do? No one has nor have I so again with this hyperbolic statements, please take that elsewhere.
People want some recoginition that their feedback or at-least someone in the feedback thread actually had one of them comment on it because it shows they're looking at it.
I stated even a lurk (something some ZOS employees use to state that they're actively reading said thread) would have suffice because each PTS there seems to be a lot of people saying X is bad but as soon as it hits live X is still there with no changes.

I don't get people like you or the other guy, you post exaggerated comments about what this thread is suppose to mean even though I clearly laid out that I just want a developer to acknowledge that they're reading it. This just comes off as white knighting a reasonable request because thou shalt not question the developer.

I responded to your question. You complained that ZOS doesn’t respond in the forums often enough for you. I gave my opinion as to why that is. You then proceeded to label me a “white knight” in order to invalidate my opinion. Is that an accurate recap? Do you want to have another insulting back and forth with another person who disagrees with you, or should we just drop it?

Sevn · April 2018

Drop it. A response from ZOS wouldn't be enough either. I'd reckon they hear his and others "suggestions" and don't agree with them, hence why so many "suggestions" are dismissed.

I know I would.

Valkysas154 · April 2018

Yea there lack of communication and just not caring what we say is why i stopped bug reporting a week into mw pts looks like i will prob be doing the same again even if i run into a bug there prob not going to fix it just like the sitting in chair bug so why report it.

MaxwellC · April 2018

@Marcus684
You did attempt to invalidate my opinion and my entire thread but you're still not understanding one thing.
It isn't that ZOS isn't "responding as frequent" no they're not responding in any class thread and all I want is something that is saying "Hey we are looking at this thread no worries" just something small. You make it seem as if I'm asking the world but I really am not, all I want is that people's hard work isn't simply being directed to a wall but is actually directed at a person.