What about all the reasons we've listed, about it taking too much development time for not enough monitary gain, about how it adversely impacts the rest of the game.

That’s just pure speculation because PvP players do support the game too. As for impacting the rest of the game, of course two different game modes that are not separated when it comes to skills will affect each other. That’s not necessarily negative though. PvE would have seen adjustments too even if there wasn’t PvP in the game at all.

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Kalgert wrote: »

I don't mind the lack of attention to PvP.

PvP is a dung-heap anyway.

Is what someone who has never tried PvP and just read the horror stories would say

Or heaven forbid people could have an opinion.

Sure they can, else I wouldn't have posted mine

You didn't really post an opinion. You posted speculation on someone elses opinion.Semantics aside, people can play the PVP in this game, and other MMO's, and find it wanting. I personally dont like PVP in MMO's, I prefer something like Overwatch where it's the soul focus of the development.

Who are you to determine whether or not I posted an opinion? I don't see an Opinion Police badge on your profile

Overwatch is a bad game

Eh, I didn't play it for very long but I had fun while it lasted.

I've never played it in my life, just like some have never tried PvP in this game but still want it removed

Why do you keep harping on this? Do you think that only someone who has never played PVP is ever going to criticize it?

Show me someone who has never played PVP, and I'll show you someone who has and does not like it. This is a fallacy.

Not at all. There are people who have tried PvP who love it, and people who haven't tried it and hate it

There are plenty who have tried it and hate it.

There are plenty who don’t like scripted events aka PvE. Does that mean PvE should get no fixes? Of course not. You just choose to essentially screw a segment of the player base because you don’t particularly care for the game mode. Doesn’t make it correct though.

ROI factors in here, I think. There are far, far more PvErs than PvPers so that's where the focus will be.

And the beancounters rejoice...

If ROI was a primary concern we’d see frequent and steady bug fixes for PvE. They don’t even do that.

Feanor wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Kalgert wrote: »

I don't mind the lack of attention to PvP.

PvP is a dung-heap anyway.

Is what someone who has never tried PvP and just read the horror stories would say

Or heaven forbid people could have an opinion.

Sure they can, else I wouldn't have posted mine

You didn't really post an opinion. You posted speculation on someone elses opinion.Semantics aside, people can play the PVP in this game, and other MMO's, and find it wanting. I personally dont like PVP in MMO's, I prefer something like Overwatch where it's the soul focus of the development.

Who are you to determine whether or not I posted an opinion? I don't see an Opinion Police badge on your profile

Overwatch is a bad game

Eh, I didn't play it for very long but I had fun while it lasted.

I've never played it in my life, just like some have never tried PvP in this game but still want it removed

Why do you keep harping on this? Do you think that only someone who has never played PVP is ever going to criticize it?

Show me someone who has never played PVP, and I'll show you someone who has and does not like it. This is a fallacy.

Not at all. There are people who have tried PvP who love it, and people who haven't tried it and hate it

There are plenty who have tried it and hate it.

There are plenty who don’t like scripted events aka PvE. Does that mean PvE should get no fixes? Of course not. You just choose to essentially screw a segment of the player base because you don’t particularly care for the game mode. Doesn’t make it correct though.

ROI factors in here, I think. There are far, far more PvErs than PvPers so that's where the focus will be.

And the beancounters rejoice...

If ROI was a primary concern we’d see frequent and steady bug fixes for PvE. They don’t even do that.

Not precisely true. They do fix things, just sometimes not the things we want fixed when we want them fixed. Whether or not they have legit reasons for fixing some things and not others? We don't have that insight. ROI is the motivator here, there is no arguing that. It is a for profit business.

Exodium wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn

So, PvP players should just be grateful and accept the state of the game? That’s an peculiar view of things.

Also, yes, healing is an issue in PvE. Or why else do you think that healers get judged by how well they buff the group? Overhealing is what makes PvE healing so easy.

Don't argue with these snowflakes, they're the type to have only once stepped foot into Cyrodiil, get ganked and then cry back to pve where they can beat on the same mobs they've killed over and over again one hundred times before. This is why theirs a lot of pve salt when pvpers bring up anything remotely related to improving an aspect of the game.

Also, Pvers say pvp isn't relevant but go on twitch and there's maybe only 1-2 big pve streamers, alcast being the only really big one. Look at all the other streamers in the past who through their PVP content have brought exposure to the game through reasonable sized views (sypher, Kodi, fengrush, blobs). When I tune into their streams there's always new players coming in interested in the Pvp content and wanting to try the game out.

So yes, pvp also generates interest.

I just love it when sweeping generalisations are made.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool PvEer. I couldn't PvP my way out of a wet paper sack BUT I support those who enjoy it. Well, at least the non-jerks which is most of 'em.

But I am pragmatic enough to understand that PvPers in what is essentially a PvE game are not going to get the attention they want strictly due to the numbers. It sucks, it's frustrating but it's the reality.

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn

So, PvP players should just be grateful and accept the state of the game? That’s an peculiar view of things.

Also, yes, healing is an issue in PvE. Or why else do you think that healers get judged by how well they buff the group? Overhealing is what makes PvE healing so easy.

Don't argue with these snowflakes, they're the type to have only once stepped foot into Cyrodiil, get ganked and then cry back to pve where they can beat on the same mobs they've killed over and over again one hundred times before. This is why theirs a lot of pve salt when pvpers bring up anything remotely related to improving an aspect of the game.

Also, Pvers say pvp isn't relevant but go on twitch and there's maybe only 1-2 big pve streamers, alcast being the only really big one. Look at all the other streamers in the past who through their PVP content have brought exposure to the game through reasonable sized views (sypher, Kodi, fengrush, blobs). When I tune into their streams there's always new players coming in interested in the Pvp content and wanting to try the game out.

So yes, pvp also generates interest.

I just love it when sweeping generalisations are made.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool PvEer. I couldn't PvP my way out of a wet paper sack BUT I support those who enjoy it. Well, at least the non-jerks which is most of 'em.

But I am pragmatic enough to understand that PvPers in what is essentially a PvE game are not going to get the attention they want strictly due to the numbers. It sucks, it's frustrating but it's the reality.

The numbers you say? Nobody has them except ZOS. So arguing with them is not really valid. There may be more PvE players. There are also a lot of players who do both regularly. It’s not as white and black as some people would have you believe.

Exodium wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn

So, PvP players should just be grateful and accept the state of the game? That’s an peculiar view of things.

Also, yes, healing is an issue in PvE. Or why else do you think that healers get judged by how well they buff the group? Overhealing is what makes PvE healing so easy.

Don't argue with these snowflakes, they're the type to have only once stepped foot into Cyrodiil, get ganked and then cry back to pve where they can beat on the same mobs they've killed over and over again one hundred times before. This is why theirs a lot of pve salt when pvpers bring up anything remotely related to improving an aspect of the game.

Also, Pvers say pvp isn't relevant but go on twitch and there's maybe only 1-2 big pve streamers, alcast being the only really big one. Look at all the other streamers in the past who through their PVP content have brought exposure to the game through reasonable sized views (sypher, Kodi, fengrush, blobs). When I tune into their streams there's always new players coming in interested in the Pvp content and wanting to try the game out.

So yes, pvp also generates interest.

I just love it when sweeping generalisations are made.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool PvEer. I couldn't PvP my way out of a wet paper sack BUT I support those who enjoy it. Well, at least the non-jerks which is most of 'em.

But I am pragmatic enough to understand that PvPers in what is essentially a PvE game are not going to get the attention they want strictly due to the numbers. It sucks, it's frustrating but it's the reality.

I can point out many generalisations in threads like this and others where Pvers say "no one cares about pvp" "pvp needs to be removed its not relevant" "zenimax only benefits from pve" etc etc

Of course you can because people tend to do it out of laziness or because they need the support of ninja-including everyone in their position.

I'm quite cognizant that there are those sorts of both "sides" of the equation but that doesn't change how silly it is to try and pull off the "everyone" gambit.

Feanor wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn

So, PvP players should just be grateful and accept the state of the game? That’s an peculiar view of things.

Also, yes, healing is an issue in PvE. Or why else do you think that healers get judged by how well they buff the group? Overhealing is what makes PvE healing so easy.

Don't argue with these snowflakes, they're the type to have only once stepped foot into Cyrodiil, get ganked and then cry back to pve where they can beat on the same mobs they've killed over and over again one hundred times before. This is why theirs a lot of pve salt when pvpers bring up anything remotely related to improving an aspect of the game.

Also, Pvers say pvp isn't relevant but go on twitch and there's maybe only 1-2 big pve streamers, alcast being the only really big one. Look at all the other streamers in the past who through their PVP content have brought exposure to the game through reasonable sized views (sypher, Kodi, fengrush, blobs). When I tune into their streams there's always new players coming in interested in the Pvp content and wanting to try the game out.

So yes, pvp also generates interest.

I just love it when sweeping generalisations are made.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool PvEer. I couldn't PvP my way out of a wet paper sack BUT I support those who enjoy it. Well, at least the non-jerks which is most of 'em.

But I am pragmatic enough to understand that PvPers in what is essentially a PvE game are not going to get the attention they want strictly due to the numbers. It sucks, it's frustrating but it's the reality.

The numbers you say? Nobody has them except ZOS. So arguing with them is not really valid. There may be more PvE players. There are also a lot of players who do both regularly. It’s not as white and black as some people would have you believe.

I agree to an extent but there is no way there are more PvPers than PvEers even counting the "both..uh...ers". There is a core group of dedicated, talented PvPers, no doubt there but they are not anywhere near the number of PvErs (and "both-ers) or we'd see a complete shift to more support/content for PvPers.

It's allllll about the money.

Voxicity wrote: »

Is what someone who has never tried PvP and just read the horror stories would say

Agreed.

Last weekend, I went into PvP to "test it out", only to find myself sucked in I played both Saturday and Sunday. I freaking loved it.

Most of the misconceptions about PvP seem to be based on one player's experience, which somehow translated as PvP in general, and thank goodness those misconceptions are just that.

I'm only CP450, and despite not having "BiS", I had a blast. Everyone (even one enemy!) was awesome and helpful, throwing me free seige gear to help out (I left mine in the bank because I wasn't sure how it was used).

Oh, that enemy? Yeah, allow me to share because this is a story which can represent the true PvP playing field.

My Dominion faction took a farm. A few of us started doing daily quests. Once most were done, the faction "herd" rode off to take another keep. I stayed behind to finish up my quest.

Then, a lone Daggerfall player strolled in, and took the flags solo. I watched as he single-handedly took out the "defenders" set up by the game.

After it was said and done, he came to me and started a whisper.

Him: "Why didn't you attack me?"
Me: "LOL. Right, as if I had a chance after I saw what you just did."

Him: "New, then?"
Me: "Yep. Came to see what PvP was about. You can kill me whenever. Those are the rules, right?"

Him: "LOL. Not if I don't want to. Class?"
Me: "NB. Trying to learn rotation to stay alive. Working to get Vigor."

Him: "Good choice. Get Caltrops, too. Where's your team?"
Me: "Don't know. Took off about 5 minutes before you took the flags."

Him: "Are they coming back?"
Me: "Don't know that either. Not sure how they communicate. No one's on headset."

Him: "Probably on party. Where you going now?"
Me: "A castle. Supposed to do a spy quest."

Him: "Well, best get going. My team's about to get here and they'll kill you if they see you."
Me: "Thanks. Heading out now. Going to Ebonheart area. We'll see how long I last."

About an hour later, he's now in my friend list on XBox.

So yeah, PvP isn't as bad as many make it out to be. You get out of it what you put into it. Sure, some people are griefers, but that's true for any multiplayer game. Shouldn't let the few spoil it for anyone.

Can't wait until Saturday gets here.

I'm a PvP player. That's 90 percent of my playtime.

I don't want a PvP DLC.

You can split up PvE content, questing content, add new zones, etc. etc. and it doesn't have a negative effect on the rest of the PvE environment: split up PvP too much, you just dilute the density of PvP. We are already down to one balanced/competitive Cyrodiil campaign (on most servers). Battlegrounds give you the same mix of opponents after 1-2 matches. IC is a ghost town 90 percent of the time. Until something is done to increase PvP participation overall, I really don't see there being enough meat to make another sandwich.

Sevn wrote: »

On top, if all you do is pvp, I find it hard to believe you subscribe, or spend any real funds supporting the game. Why would you? I know I wouldn't. Pure speculation, but what is there to buy for a dedicated pvper? Probably have one, maybe two toons, maybe a few costumes to hide their gear and maybe 2 mounts.

In comparison I own 90% of the costumes, at least 20 mounts and been subbed since day one. Which type of customer would you cater too?

I essentially only PvP (outside of necessary PvE to get gear). I have 15 toons, 9 of them endgame ready. I've subbed since day one with the exception of like 3 months. I also have 20 mounts and more costumes than I can ever use

Sevn wrote: »

In comparison I own 90% of the costumes, at least 20 mounts and been subbed since day one. Which type of customer would you cater too?

LoL... please quit with the "PvE players pay more than PvP players".

I'm a dedicated PvP player. Hmm.. I wonder what type of customer zeni would want. You or me?

I have around 7 accounts ( don't ask me why )
I pay for 2 subs
I have bought many mounts and outfits on multiple accounts
I purchased 2 manors
i purchased most DLCs on each account
I purchased the last expansion on 3 accounts

On top of that I have been playing in the same PvP zone for 3 years and the only thing I think they changed was some stairs at Ales and Ash gate, and guess what? I never complained once about I need a new DLC!! I never ran out of content to play.

However, I have not purchased any crown crates

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

How in the blue blazes can you keep track of 7 accounts? I've contemplated a second one but figured I would not have the time to devote to a 2nd account. Could be I'm just abysmal at time management. I'm truly curious but will understand if you choose not to get into it.

Short answer: I have issues.

I mostly play in under level 50 PvP campaign. One of my character names is "Omg It's Emily Again" because I have so many characters. i normally will level a character to 50 and put it to the side and start playing another low level character.

I don't like deleting any of my characters, and I also have a problem getting rid of stuff i find. For some reason I think I might need it some day. I thought my solution to all my problems was to buy more character slots and more accounts but that definitely made it harder to manage.

It is kind of neat how I set up a few accounts. One account has nothing but Mag NBs, another with all Stam NBs, and one has all tanks. It allows me to re-use gear for PvP and try different sets.

I just like playing the game, having more characters to choose from makes the game stay alive for me. If one day I feel like being a serial killer I will hop on my "Emily Dahmer" character. If I feel like being a princess, I will hop on my "Princess Emily" character, and if I am doing group dungeons and we can't find a tank then I will hop on my "Tank Emily' character and pretend I know what I am doing.