Remove Ice Staff Taunt....

Medakon · April 2018

As a tank I can see OP's View on why he want ice staff with no taunt. He wants to be able to block using magica instead of stamina, pretty easy solution here.. make resto staff drain magica when blocking

Zach2322 · April 2018

Raraaku wrote: »

While true, blocking as a squishy healer who's got all their stats in magicka and needs as much magicka as possible to ensure plenty of heals when needed and thus most of their gear is build around magicka sustain. They also need their limited stamina for rolling out of AoE effects, the tri-focus perk on ice staffs looks awfully nice. The other 2 staff perks are also nice pluses as well. I don't like being forced to avoid passives because 1/3 of its possible effects is literally the worst thing a healer can do .

Still speced fully magicka as a healer, you still have around 9-10k stam with 6-700 recovery. With that you are able to role 3 times before your stam is drained unless your standing on the tank, there isn't any reason to dodge roll 3 times as there isn't any aoe that large. You could look at your cp to see how you can make the most of your stam pool as well. 1-2% of recovery above 12% will not be as much as the dodge cost reduction or block reduction you could get by spending the points there.

mikemacon · April 2018

Nope.

Magtanks use the ice staff heavy attack as a ranged taunt that restores resources instead of consumes them.

It's hardly "trash". Sorry.

Instead, my magtank slots S&B front bar, ice staff back bar.

Works insanely well.

Silver_Strider · April 2018

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Frost DPS is just something ZOS has not really done much to encourage (Winterborne and Ysgramor notwithstanding)

Frost Staff adds no extra damage, meaning it's useless from a DPS standpoint and Warden's passive increase in Frost Damage is still less than the damage buffs provided by Fire or Lightning staff so it's still not worth it for them either outside of thematic RPing. You're honestly better off using Iceheart if you want a damage shield that badly.

Facts are, Frost DPS sets are worthless; a relic of days gone by. ZOS had a chance to make Frost Magic relevant with Warden but decided Frost Magic would be for Tanking and designed most of Warden's Frost abilities for that purpose to go along with the Frost Staff Revisions. It's not changing back. The only way you'll be able to utilize any of those Frost Magic sets is to bite the bullet and make a Frost Staff Tank. It'll work in Dungeons and PvP just fine but a DPS spec Frost build is a dead dream at this point.

You sound just like the people who said ZOS "has spoken" and will never make 2H weapons count as two pieces for sets.

No, because I was the kind of person that was asking for 2H weapons to get an extra item attached to them so they could get 2 5p bonuses. I would rather ask for ways to make Frost Staff tanking more viable since that's the more likely outcome than ZOS making Frost Staff a DPS option again, especially since ZOS has been trying to make it that way with boosting Frost Staff to be more on par with SnB.

josiahva · April 2018

mikemacon wrote: »

Nope.

Magtanks use the ice staff heavy attack as a ranged taunt that restores resources instead of consumes them.

It's hardly "trash". Sorry.

Instead, my magtank slots S&B front bar, ice staff back bar.

Works insanely well.

Not just magtanks use it...any tank can since they are all hybrid builds anyway(my meat tank only has 10k magicka but 1600 magicka regen specifically for utility spells).

The real problem here isnt the use of ice staff for taunting(it was/is useless for DPS) its the fact they tried to introduce ice magic with the Warden, while completely ignoring the fact that it just doesn't work...you think warden, you should think nature magic...animal companions, green balance...both fit the theme...and then...ice magic? wtf? It should be nature magic there too. If they wanted ice magic to be viable it shouldnt focus on CC...it should focus on debuffs instead(Ever banged your hand into something when its cold? hurts a hell of a lot more) built in de-buffs would put its damage on a par with fire and lightning staves...CC does...nothing useful for DPS(thats why you have tanks) as long as ice magic is focused on CCs, there will never be viable ice DPS builds...or I should say, no one will ever choose it over flame/lightning except just maybe in PvP where CC matters

Sky_WK · April 2018

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?

The problem is that the taunt pulls aggro from the tank in parties. So as a healer, I like defensive options to keep myself alive while healing. The ice staff was a solution to this, allowing me to actually block hard cc/damaging abilities... However, I can't my mana resources back with heavy attacks, or I pull the boss to me... That's ridiculous and frustrating. Sword and board doesn't taunt on a heavy attack, I don't get where you got that from? Heavy attacks are necessary for sustain, especially now in morrowind. The taunt has to go!

Your resto staff heavies restore more magicka anyways.

mikemacon · April 2018

josiahva wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Nope.

Magtanks use the ice staff heavy attack as a ranged taunt that restores resources instead of consumes them.

It's hardly "trash". Sorry.

Instead, my magtank slots S&B front bar, ice staff back bar.

Works insanely well.

Not just magtanks use it...any tank can since they are all hybrid builds anyway(my meat tank only has 10k magicka but 1600 magicka regen specifically for utility spells).

The real problem here isnt the use of ice staff for taunting(it was/is useless for DPS) its the fact they tried to introduce ice magic with the Warden, while completely ignoring the fact that it just doesn't work...you think warden, you should think nature magic...animal companions, green balance...both fit the theme...and then...ice magic? wtf? It should be nature magic there too. If they wanted ice magic to be viable it shouldnt focus on CC...it should focus on debuffs instead(Ever banged your hand into something when its cold? hurts a hell of a lot more) built in de-buffs would put its damage on a par with fire and lightning staves...CC does...nothing useful for DPS(thats why you have tanks) as long as ice magic is focused on CCs, there will never be viable ice DPS builds...or I should say, no one will ever choose it over flame/lightning except just maybe in PvP where CC matters

Hmm.

Perhaps moving the taunt from an intrinsic perk in Tri Focus to its own passive...

Savos_Saren · April 2018

My suggestion for Frost Staff is to remove the taunt, but keep the blocking passives. Instead, replace the taunt with extra damage vs. low health enemies. (IE: Heavy attacks do 5% more damage to low health enemies). As OP stated, we already have a ranged taunt.

That way, you can still tank with the staff and it adds a damage component for people who prefer Ice Damage Dealing. This helps out in PVE and PVP.

ANGEL_BtVS · April 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Frost DPS is just something ZOS has not really done much to encourage (Winterborne and Ysgramor notwithstanding)

Frost Staff adds no extra damage, meaning it's useless from a DPS standpoint and Warden's passive increase in Frost Damage is still less than the damage buffs provided by Fire or Lightning staff so it's still not worth it for them either outside of thematic RPing. You're honestly better off using Iceheart if you want a damage shield that badly.

Facts are, Frost DPS sets are worthless; a relic of days gone by. ZOS had a chance to make Frost Magic relevant with Warden but decided Frost Magic would be for Tanking and designed most of Warden's Frost abilities for that purpose to go along with the Frost Staff Revisions. It's not changing back. The only way you'll be able to utilize any of those Frost Magic sets is to bite the bullet and make a Frost Staff Tank. It'll work in Dungeons and PvP just fine but a DPS spec Frost build is a dead dream at this point.

You sound just like the people who said ZOS "has spoken" and will never make 2H weapons count as two pieces for sets.

No, because I was the kind of person that was asking for 2H weapons to get an extra item attached to them so they could get 2 5p bonuses. I would rather ask for ways to make Frost Staff tanking more viable since that's the more likely outcome than ZOS making Frost Staff a DPS option again, especially since ZOS has been trying to make it that way with boosting Frost Staff to be more on par with SnB.

I'm guessing you didn't hear but according to those who met with ZOS, ice staves were discussed. Given all the changes to Summerset nothing is being done for now but it's on their list to reevaluate. What that means for sure we don't know, but apparently ZOS didn't seem interested in buffing it as a tanking option and moving it back to DPS is on the table. And every one of the people invited (gilliam, alcast, etc) said they didn't want ice staves for tanking because "it's garbage".

Silver_Strider · April 2018

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Frost DPS is just something ZOS has not really done much to encourage (Winterborne and Ysgramor notwithstanding)

Frost Staff adds no extra damage, meaning it's useless from a DPS standpoint and Warden's passive increase in Frost Damage is still less than the damage buffs provided by Fire or Lightning staff so it's still not worth it for them either outside of thematic RPing. You're honestly better off using Iceheart if you want a damage shield that badly.

Facts are, Frost DPS sets are worthless; a relic of days gone by. ZOS had a chance to make Frost Magic relevant with Warden but decided Frost Magic would be for Tanking and designed most of Warden's Frost abilities for that purpose to go along with the Frost Staff Revisions. It's not changing back. The only way you'll be able to utilize any of those Frost Magic sets is to bite the bullet and make a Frost Staff Tank. It'll work in Dungeons and PvP just fine but a DPS spec Frost build is a dead dream at this point.

You sound just like the people who said ZOS "has spoken" and will never make 2H weapons count as two pieces for sets.

No, because I was the kind of person that was asking for 2H weapons to get an extra item attached to them so they could get 2 5p bonuses. I would rather ask for ways to make Frost Staff tanking more viable since that's the more likely outcome than ZOS making Frost Staff a DPS option again, especially since ZOS has been trying to make it that way with boosting Frost Staff to be more on par with SnB.

I'm guessing you didn't hear but according to those who met with ZOS, ice staves were discussed. Given all the changes to Summerset nothing is being done for now but it's on their list to reevaluate. What that means for sure we don't know, but apparently ZOS didn't seem interested in buffing it as a tanking option and moving it back to DPS is on the table. And every one of the people invited (gilliam, alcast, etc) said they didn't want ice staves for tanking because "it's garbage".

Heresay discussion with no definitive answer reached, very reassuring. They might revert Frost Staves back to a mediocre DPS weapons, they might finally separate all 3 Destro Staves into their own skill lines, or they might troll everyone and make Frost staves into a healer weapon.

I rarely care what any streamer has to say as the majority tend to speak their opinions with little regards to the opinions of others so them calling Frost Staves garbage for tanking when I find it the most engaging aspect of Tanking is just a difference of opinion and whether ZOS decides to listen to them or not is entirely on them.

I don't see ZOS reverting it to a DPS weapon, not after kneecapping Wardens to make Frost Magic tank based and all the work in updating Frost Staves to be more and more viable tank weapons.

SmellyUnlimited · April 2018

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?

The problem is that the taunt pulls aggro from the tank in parties. So as a healer, I like defensive options to keep myself alive while healing. The ice staff was a solution to this, allowing me to actually block hard cc/damaging abilities... However, I can't my mana resources back with heavy attacks, or I pull the boss to me... That's ridiculous and frustrating. Sword and board doesn't taunt on a heavy attack, I don't get where you got that from? Heavy attacks are necessary for sustain, especially now in morrowind. The taunt has to go!

As a healer, you should be using your resto for heavy attack resource gain. Of all staves, it has the highest amount of resources returned, you gain Major Mending temporarily, and can even heal a teammate nearby by simply heavy attacking with it.

SmellyUnlimited · April 2018

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Why can't the tank and the player with the ice staff discuss who is holding taunt before the mob/boss pull begins?

LOL.

Okay, before every pull the tank should run it by the group to see if it’s okay if he maintains aggro.

FoolishOptimist · April 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

My suggestion for Frost Staff is to remove the taunt, but keep the blocking passives. Instead, replace the taunt with extra damage vs. low health enemies. (IE: Heavy attacks do 5% more damage to low health enemies). As OP stated, we already have a ranged taunt.

That way, you can still tank with the staff and it adds a damage component for people who prefer Ice Damage Dealing. This helps out in PVE and PVP.

If you're going down the path of Frost Staves returning to a DPS function, reworking the Frost passive to facilitate an 'execute' function is thematically supported by emergency medicine. The Lethal Triad for trauma patients involves coagulopathy (reduced blood clotting function from too much blood-loss), hypothermia (environmental, in addition to heat-loss from excess blood loss) and metabolic acidosis (results in an inability to perform basic life-saving functions). So, medically speaking, it would make sense if frost damage hit for a percentage harder against enemies under a specific amount of health, because their ability to compensate would be compromised.

I feel this would provide an alternative for the damage staves that mag DPS could find appealing (both PVE and PVP); while still maintaining Chilled's minor maim and potential for CC's on the Frost Elemental Wall of Elements.

I say this as someone who absolutely LOVES frost tanking on my warden; magicka tanking provides the increased AOE control that Non-DK's might not have had access to, as well as greater resource control, swapping from stam to mag blocking.

If they were to separate the skill line, I would definitely support an Alteration Staff, or to my preference, One Hand and Tome (spell books, you say?!), which would maintain magicka-blocking, and potentially scale melee attacks with magicka.

As alteration magic involves manipulating the physical world for strategic gain, you could easily include skills that provide group Major Resolve and Major Ward (think Skyrim's Oakflesh) or a small-scale spell similar to Meridia's blessed armour proc that results in Blindness (Think a[Skyrim] magelight twist). Fracture the battleground, causing you to slow your enemies and proc Major Fracture/Breech- while the morphs could add a DoT or Spellplague flavour that causes minor magickasteal.

This would guarantee the best of both worlds. Either way, magicka tanking needs to remain viable.

Elusiin · April 2018

Well I see my thread was bumped... My thoughts almost a year later: You can have an effective DPS ice build without putting points in the passive, as a warden with winterborn, direfrost monster set, and a sustain set; however, even with stacking damage shields, being able to block hard cc projectiles or heavy boss attacks in PvE would greatly increase your survivability, and give ice staff DPS/Healers a nice niche when compared to the other destro staffs that get AoE damage or increased single target damage. There's many times my damage shields have failed me, and this passive would've meant surviving instead of dying, and this is even more important for a healer in PvE.

I still I wish ZoS would make a minor change and move the passive to a morph of elemental drain, so that it's a spammable taunt, but with it being left as it is this long already, I don't see them doing that.

ccfeeling · April 2018

HA proc taunt is stupid mechanic , need to make something logical , taunt needs to be quick !
Destruction staff all skills need to split into 3 different effects against the same skill . Just like WOE , DT .

Elemental Storm , Force Shock , Wall of Elements , Destructive Touch , Weakness to Elements , Impulse

Ice staff + Inner rage , hell NO ... Inner rage spend too much magicka , it doesn't make sense .
Ice staff needs unique taunt skill .

I think ZOS should rebuild the Force Shock and Weakness to Elements to fit all 3 different staff functions , thank you !

Iselin · April 2018

Having played enough staff users since this change was made - plenty of times with an ice staff - I honestly don't see the problem other than it makes the tank a bit nervous when they see someone using ice because they're not sure if you know what you're doing with it.

I mean.. I can't conceive of any possible reason to use a frost staff on both bars and it's actually tough to do a heavy attack accidentally when you're on your Ice staff bar. Just use your other staff for HA resource regen.

DaveMoeDee · April 2018

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

Beesting wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?

The problem is that the taunt pulls aggro from the tank in parties. So as a healer, I like defensive options to keep myself alive while healing. The ice staff was a solution to this, allowing me to actually block hard cc/damaging abilities... However, I can't my mana resources back with heavy attacks, or I pull the boss to me... That's ridiculous and frustrating. Sword and board doesn't taunt on a heavy attack, I don't get where you got that from? Heavy attacks are necessary for sustain, especially now in morrowind. The taunt has to go!

Good healers use lightning staff on backbar to cast wall of shock to set mobs off balance for the 10% damage boost for the dps
A good healer focusses on supporting the dps by buffing them and making the fights shorter. It is another approach on healing but works a lot better, you will see if you give it a try.
Also use spell power cure for the dame reason.

If you have trouble staying alive as a healer there are better options than using an icestaff

I agree with you, but allowing the ice staff possibility with some of the less used armor sets can create interesting builds and possibilities. I like being to try different builds, and I see this heavy attack taunt as a restriction on build creativity only, I don't think it's necessary when the taunt comes from other sources. Sure, like another suggested, we could just leave points out of that passive for ice staff healing or dps, but then you miss out on the, small but useful, damage shield. I just wish Zos would at least move the damage shield to a different passive for ice staff, and make only the taunt be on tri-focus... Or just remove the taunt passive altogether.

Tanks also like to try different builds.

Aurielle · April 2018

The biggest problem for me, as a mDK tank, is that the tri-focus passive forces me to consume magicka when blocking on backbar (which does occasionally happen in emergency situations when I don’t have time to swap to my S+B front bar). There are two main reasons why I decided to make a mDK tank over the standard hybrid trials meta tank: (1) I generally don’t tank trials and like to be able to add more than 5k DPS to the group when I’m tanking vet dungeons, and (2) I like having the capacity to spam igneous shield almost constantly to return stam as needed during boss fights. I loved having a ranged taunt that freed up a spot on my bar for a DPS skill via frost staff heavy attack, but ended up taking points out of the passive because I wanted to block with stamina 100% of the time. So I’d absolutely be in favour of reworking the tri-focus passive to help tanks like me or healers who use frost staves for CC (though in all honesty, healers really should be using lightning staves on their back bars and heavy attacking with their resto staves for mending).

gnarlyvandal · April 2018

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Why can't you heavy attack from your other bar?

Other bar is for resource management, like a restoration staff... Which wouldn't get benefits from say the Warden frost damage passive, or the dps cold damage proc set Winterborn. That's one reason, the other being that you should be able to do resource management with any weapon without screwing up PvE boss aggro...

If the other bar is for resource management, then why can’t it be used for restoring resources..? 1 HA every other rotation on your backbar is not going to hurt really is it?

MerlinPendragon · April 2018

Leave ice staff as is.

FR0STDEE · April 2018

Woah woah woah you can't remove it because 1% of players use it. Same as drink recipes, 1% of players sometimes use drink buffs instead of food so we have to put up with them being absolutely useless and not changing them to be more useful to the larger audience. So let's grab our pitchforks and defend those 1%ers.

Marginis · April 2018

I recommend that those wishing to be slightly defensive as healers use their resto staff, not their frost staff, to recover resources with heavy attacks. I suggest to magic DPS characters, use your other staff to recover resources, don't use your frost staff. Non-magicka builds shouldn't really be using a staff unless they're already a tank I don't think. I mean, I don't know if it needs to be any more complicated than that, honestly.

KanedaSyndrome · April 2018

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?

I deal damage with ice. I play my way.

KanedaSyndrome · April 2018

I use frost staff dps, and I demand that you take me along on your trial run.

Vaoh · April 2018

ZOS doesn’t care. Never gonna change it.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

FR0STDEE wrote: »

Woah woah woah you can't remove it because 1% of players use it. Same as drink recipes, 1% of players sometimes use drink buffs instead of food so we have to put up with them being absolutely useless and not changing them to be more useful to the larger audience. So let's grab our pitchforks and defend those 1%ers.

Less than 1% used frost staves for dps before the changes were made. Now I'd say at least 10-15% of tanks, probably more, use ice staff as a back bar weapon, and it's far more common in pvp now as well.

Rather, let's not cater to the overly vocal 1% of players who want blue dps instead of red or white dps.

Vaoh · April 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

FR0STDEE wrote: »

Woah woah woah you can't remove it because 1% of players use it. Same as drink recipes, 1% of players sometimes use drink buffs instead of food so we have to put up with them being absolutely useless and not changing them to be more useful to the larger audience. So let's grab our pitchforks and defend those 1%ers.

Less than 1% used frost staves for dps before the changes were made. Now I'd say at least 10-15% of tanks, probably more, use ice staff as a back bar weapon, and it's far more common in pvp now as well.

Rather, let's not cater to the overly vocal 1% of players who want blue dps instead of red or white dps.

Not true.

Before the changes, using an Ice Staff made you lose only a few thousand DPS over a Lightning/Fire Staff. I used to see them A LOT (nearly as much as Fire/Lightning Staves) because they were cool to use and their DPS was viable.

Also in PvP they were widely used in place of other Staves because of the heavy attack snare, powerful roots, and simply awesome icy effects. NBs were the main class as a whole to use Ice Staves. People asked for them to *buff* Ice Staves so they would truly be on-par to Flame Staves (rather than behind) in PvE content.

The moment they changed Ice Staves, their presence almost entirely vanished. Now you only see them on the very occasional (and always bad) tank,or for the rare Ice Mage Wardens in PvP. The functionality of tank does not mix in a **Destruction** Staff with all actives and most passives meant for Damage-dealing.

Instead of making Ice Staves truly on-par DPS weapons, they made them a hybrid Tank/Damage-dealing tool. It’s good at niether. That’s why we almost never see it. In fact most tanks will choose to use Sword/Shield and Lightning Staff (rather than Frost) because Lightning Bloackade actually has a useful effect.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

FR0STDEE wrote: »

Woah woah woah you can't remove it because 1% of players use it. Same as drink recipes, 1% of players sometimes use drink buffs instead of food so we have to put up with them being absolutely useless and not changing them to be more useful to the larger audience. So let's grab our pitchforks and defend those 1%ers.

Less than 1% used frost staves for dps before the changes were made. Now I'd say at least 10-15% of tanks, probably more, use ice staff as a back bar weapon, and it's far more common in pvp now as well.

Rather, let's not cater to the overly vocal 1% of players who want blue dps instead of red or white dps.

Not true.

Before the changes, using an Ice Staff made you lose only a few thousand DPS over a Lightning/Fire Staff. I used to see them A LOT (nearly as much as Fire/Lightning Staves) because they were cool to use and their DPS was viable.

Also in PvP they were widely used in place of other Staves because of the heavy attack snare, powerful roots, and simply awesome icy effects. NBs were the main class as a whole to use Ice Staves. People asked for them to *buff* Ice Staves so they would truly be on-par to Flame Staves (rather than behind) in PvE content.

The moment they changed Ice Staves, their presence almost entirely vanished. Now you only see them on the very occasional (and always bad) tank, or for very niche roles like an offtank in vAS HM, or for the rare Ice Mage Wardens in PvP. The functionality of tank does not mix in a **Destruction** Staff with all actives and most passives meant for Damage-dealing.

Are we playing the same game? Your recollection here is completely different than mine

Vaoh · April 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

FR0STDEE wrote: »

Woah woah woah you can't remove it because 1% of players use it. Same as drink recipes, 1% of players sometimes use drink buffs instead of food so we have to put up with them being absolutely useless and not changing them to be more useful to the larger audience. So let's grab our pitchforks and defend those 1%ers.

Less than 1% used frost staves for dps before the changes were made. Now I'd say at least 10-15% of tanks, probably more, use ice staff as a back bar weapon, and it's far more common in pvp now as well.

Rather, let's not cater to the overly vocal 1% of players who want blue dps instead of red or white dps.

Not true.

Before the changes, using an Ice Staff made you lose only a few thousand DPS over a Lightning/Fire Staff. I used to see them A LOT (nearly as much as Fire/Lightning Staves) because they were cool to use and their DPS was viable.

Also in PvP they were widely used in place of other Staves because of the heavy attack snare, powerful roots, and simply awesome icy effects. NBs were the main class as a whole to use Ice Staves. People asked for them to *buff* Ice Staves so they would truly be on-par to Flame Staves (rather than behind) in PvE content.

The moment they changed Ice Staves, their presence almost entirely vanished. Now you only see them on the very occasional (and always bad) tank, or for very niche roles like an offtank in vAS HM, or for the rare Ice Mage Wardens in PvP. The functionality of tank does not mix in a **Destruction** Staff with all actives and most passives meant for Damage-dealing.

Are we playing the same game? Your recollection here is completely different than mine

That’s my experience on console. Frost Staff isn’t used by tanks unless they’re trying to feel special. It’s only used for very niche roles, like a weird/ineffective tank build or Ice Mage Warden builds.

In the past it was similar in DPS to Flame Staves and I used to see a lot of people use it. Even in trials I saw some DPS use them when they weren’t shooting for max damage. If you do that nowadays it’s a massive DPS loss and you can’t even fully slot your Destro passives.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

FR0STDEE wrote: »

Woah woah woah you can't remove it because 1% of players use it. Same as drink recipes, 1% of players sometimes use drink buffs instead of food so we have to put up with them being absolutely useless and not changing them to be more useful to the larger audience. So let's grab our pitchforks and defend those 1%ers.

Less than 1% used frost staves for dps before the changes were made. Now I'd say at least 10-15% of tanks, probably more, use ice staff as a back bar weapon, and it's far more common in pvp now as well.

Rather, let's not cater to the overly vocal 1% of players who want blue dps instead of red or white dps.

Not true.

Before the changes, using an Ice Staff made you lose only a few thousand DPS over a Lightning/Fire Staff. I used to see them A LOT (nearly as much as Fire/Lightning Staves) because they were cool to use and their DPS was viable.

Also in PvP they were widely used in place of other Staves because of the heavy attack snare, powerful roots, and simply awesome icy effects. NBs were the main class as a whole to use Ice Staves. People asked for them to *buff* Ice Staves so they would truly be on-par to Flame Staves (rather than behind) in PvE content.

The moment they changed Ice Staves, their presence almost entirely vanished. Now you only see them on the very occasional (and always bad) tank, or for very niche roles like an offtank in vAS HM, or for the rare Ice Mage Wardens in PvP. The functionality of tank does not mix in a **Destruction** Staff with all actives and most passives meant for Damage-dealing.

Are we playing the same game? Your recollection here is completely different than mine

That’s my experience on console. Frost Staff isn’t used by tanks unless they’re trying to feel special. It’s only used for very niche roles, like a weird/ineffective tank build or Ice Mage Warden builds.

In the past it was similar in DPS to Flame Staves and I used to see a lot of people use it. Even in trials I saw some DPS use them when they weren’t shooting for max damage. If you do that nowadays it’s a massive DPS loss and you can’t even fully slot your Destro passives.

Ice staves are the most common backbar weapon for tanks now, in my experience. Fewer tanks are using lightning and nobody who knows better uses double shield