Maintenance for the week of April 6:
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Vote for {forum "read-only"} for non-ESO+
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ZOS_JesCadminGreetings, we removed several comments that were baiting and off topic. This is a friendly reminder to keep conversation constructive and on topic. If you have any questions about our forum rules, you can read through them here. Thank you for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site2 -
Casdha✭✭✭✭✭
✭Who says there is not already a hidden forum section?
Edited by Casdha on April 12, 2018 1:38PMProud member of the Psijic Order - The first wave - The 0.016%2 -
Alamakot✭✭✭No.
But I have another idea, to clean the Forum a bit.
Let's add one more "banner button" to op's (like we have "agree", "awesome" and "insightful" under any post we can read here). Name doesn't matter, "stop complaying" or "this is spam/garbage" -simply to mark thread as "nothing important". After receiving apropriate amount of negative votes (10? 20? 50?) thread will be marked for moderators to reveal and eventually move (not moving automatically) to brand new table called "hyde park"/"grumble for P2W in ESO"/"whistleblowing" (again, name does not matter).
All users should be delighted. Spammers because they can produce themselves withoud receiving negative comments, normal users because threads of this kind may be removed from sight2 -
Aisle9✭✭✭✭✭
✭ilikepickles wrote: »
The laws don't apply, but if you agree with the concept, it does.
Closed internet communities that censor their members as a rule are often just abandoned to die.
So, while it's true that "free speech laws" may not be enforced, the concept of "free speech" is respected, even if just for the sake of surviving.
Unless you live in North Korea, or something...
Just saying
I'm a free speech advocate, but I'm also a supporter of freedom from speech, at least in private homes, clubs and by extension internet communities. The amount of worthless toxic garbage just on these forums suggests the need for stricter controls via heavier moderation.
No we don't.
Go back to page one and read the whole thing again, that's an amazing example of why free speech works.
Someone says something, the idea is challenged, and mocked mercilessly if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Stupid ideas need to be expressed, that way they can be killed, with reason and logic, through debate.
If you censor them, they live under the snow, waiting for the environment to be fertile again.
Freedom from speech is just an echo chamber, or a circle jerk, call it what you want
If you want to wallow in the muck and the mire help yourself. Some of us aren't here to wade through a swamp or debate nonsense with toxic morons. This is a video game forum, not a civics class. Bring on the censorship. I welcome it with open arms.
And therein lies the problem.
If you don't like the discussion, you can leave the discussion, you have that power, thus removing yourself from the muck and the mire, while I can keep helping myself.
If you ask for me to be censored I won't be able to help myself.
In the first case, we both have options.
In the second case, I don't.
Plus, who knows, tomorrow it might be you.Artemis Absinthe - DC magicka nightblade (PC - EU)
Gruzosh Barrelsmasher - DC stamina sorcerer (PC - EU)
Kew'bacca - AD stamina nightblade (PC - EU)
Jebediah Orbrynn - DC magicka templar (PC - EU)
Hold-Many-Bags - Mule DK, Promoted to main tank, occasionally stamDD
Olaf Proudstache - Mule - No longer with us Now a Stamwarden healer
Aglieglie Brazorf - AD magicka sorcerer (PC - EU)
Rodolfo Lavandino - DC stamina, greatsword wielding, Jesus beam spamming, Redguard hybrid templar just a stamplar again (PC - EU)
Lemmy Raise Master - EP stamina necromancer (PC - EU)
Scions of Dawn recruitment ad - PC EU multifaction PvE endgame raiding guild
LUI user - I can see you when you fap loot.
#SpellswordArmy
#MakeSpellswordsGreatAgain
In the Game of PuGs you win or you ragequit
"Dip dip potato chip, dip dip potato chip"0 -
Ohtimbar✭✭✭✭✭
✭ilikepickles wrote: »
The laws don't apply, but if you agree with the concept, it does.
Closed internet communities that censor their members as a rule are often just abandoned to die.
So, while it's true that "free speech laws" may not be enforced, the concept of "free speech" is respected, even if just for the sake of surviving.
Unless you live in North Korea, or something...
Just saying
I'm a free speech advocate, but I'm also a supporter of freedom from speech, at least in private homes, clubs and by extension internet communities. The amount of worthless toxic garbage just on these forums suggests the need for stricter controls via heavier moderation.
No we don't.
Go back to page one and read the whole thing again, that's an amazing example of why free speech works.
Someone says something, the idea is challenged, and mocked mercilessly if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Stupid ideas need to be expressed, that way they can be killed, with reason and logic, through debate.
If you censor them, they live under the snow, waiting for the environment to be fertile again.
Freedom from speech is just an echo chamber, or a circle jerk, call it what you want
If you want to wallow in the muck and the mire help yourself. Some of us aren't here to wade through a swamp or debate nonsense with toxic morons. This is a video game forum, not a civics class. Bring on the censorship. I welcome it with open arms.
And therein lies the problem.
If you don't like the discussion, you can leave the discussion, you have that power, thus removing yourself from the muck and the mire, while I can keep helping myself.
If you ask for me to be censored I won't be able to help myself.
In the first case, we both have options.
In the second case, I don't.
Plus, who knows, tomorrow it might be you.
That's incredibly melodramatic and you know it. I think "this is a video game forum" pretty much sums up the incredibly minor relevance of this issue. This is a private forum. Our rights here are only what are granted by the owner. I think we should have fewer rights to spout garbage here, you think otherwise. My opinion will apparently not sway you, nor will yours sway me. That being the case, I think I'm finished.forever stuck in combat1 -
Caliope✭✭
The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance.
I'd rather debate and debunk everything for days than have someone else decide what the definition of "toxic" is and censor people.
Moderation of topics should always be limited to the ToS and the EULA, which are contracts between the company ad the customer, and even then should never be taken lightly.
We live in a time when disagreeing with someone may be seen as an act of aggression.
I'm sorry, I don't agree with you, but I'll defend your right to say it to the death.
If the discussion is so painful for you that you can't bear it, leave it. Preventing other from having it because you don't like it, that's not ok (not you, you, you as in, generic people).
you found a big fan in me
democracy is sth few ppl really understand and many quote in parts.
And yes, some whines (like some cheese with them?) can be annoying. Then I take a deep breath, speak aloud how stupid that person was (I'm opinionated that way) and go on.
And this one may be wrong imho but it's not really stupid. It needed to be discussed 0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The most whining threads I read coming from people without ESO+ membership.
Most of them complaining about features, demanding this and that.
Let them read-only the forums except "customer support-help" where they can adress questions.
You are forgetting about something. We all paid for the game. It is not free2play. Not to mention there are plenty of people who don't use eso+ but they buy dlcs & other crown store content....6 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ilikepickles wrote: »
The laws don't apply, but if you agree with the concept, it does.
Closed internet communities that censor their members as a rule are often just abandoned to die.
So, while it's true that "free speech laws" may not be enforced, the concept of "free speech" is respected, even if just for the sake of surviving.
Unless you live in North Korea, or something...
Just saying
I'm a free speech advocate, but I'm also a supporter of freedom from speech, at least in private homes, clubs and by extension internet communities. The amount of worthless toxic garbage just on these forums suggests the need for stricter controls via heavier moderation.
No we don't.
Go back to page one and read the whole thing again, that's an amazing example of why free speech works.
Someone says something, the idea is challenged, and mocked mercilessly if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Stupid ideas need to be expressed, that way they can be killed, with reason and logic, through debate.
If you censor them, they live under the snow, waiting for the environment to be fertile again.
Freedom from speech is just an echo chamber, or a circle jerk, call it what you want
If you want to wallow in the muck and the mire help yourself. Some of us aren't here to wade through a swamp or debate nonsense with toxic morons. This is a video game forum, not a civics class. Bring on the censorship. I welcome it with open arms.
And how exactly, does removing all posters except ESO+ members magically raise the ratio of useful to useless comments?
See if this is about tougher moderation, where the mods make sure topics stay on topic and come down on dead horse threads, and removing bait threads, and wield a firm hand on moderating arguments like some forums I frequent, I'd probably be okay with that. That's likely what it would take to raise the ratio of useful to useless comments significantly.
But the OP's suggestion of limiting forum participation to ESO+ members isn't going to have that effect.1 -
AnviOfVai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »The most whining threads I read coming from people without ESO+ membership.
Most of them complaining about features, demanding this and that.
Let them read-only the forums except "customer support-help" where they can adress questions.
You are forgetting about something. We all paid for the game. It is not free2play. Not to mention there are plenty of people who don't use eso+ but they buy dlcs & other crown store content....
"I appear at my lord's behest, or perhaps I was always here, and you merely lacked the ability to see me."
PS4 - EU
AD - Pet Sorcerer - Damage Dealer - 160
DC - Warden - Werewolf - in - progress - 160
DC - Templar - Tank - 160
DC - Sorcerer - Damage Dealer - in - progress
EP - Dragon Knight -Fire Tank - 160
EP - Nightblade - Damage Dealer - 1607 -
Ohtimbar✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »ilikepickles wrote: »
The laws don't apply, but if you agree with the concept, it does.
Closed internet communities that censor their members as a rule are often just abandoned to die.
So, while it's true that "free speech laws" may not be enforced, the concept of "free speech" is respected, even if just for the sake of surviving.
Unless you live in North Korea, or something...
Just saying
I'm a free speech advocate, but I'm also a supporter of freedom from speech, at least in private homes, clubs and by extension internet communities. The amount of worthless toxic garbage just on these forums suggests the need for stricter controls via heavier moderation.
No we don't.
Go back to page one and read the whole thing again, that's an amazing example of why free speech works.
Someone says something, the idea is challenged, and mocked mercilessly if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Stupid ideas need to be expressed, that way they can be killed, with reason and logic, through debate.
If you censor them, they live under the snow, waiting for the environment to be fertile again.
Freedom from speech is just an echo chamber, or a circle jerk, call it what you want
If you want to wallow in the muck and the mire help yourself. Some of us aren't here to wade through a swamp or debate nonsense with toxic morons. This is a video game forum, not a civics class. Bring on the censorship. I welcome it with open arms.
And how exactly, does removing all posters except ESO+ members magically raise the ratio of useful to useless comments?
See if this is about tougher moderation, where the mods make sure topics stay on topic and come down on dead horse threads, and removing bait threads, and wield a firm hand on moderating arguments like some forums I frequent, I'd probably be okay with that. That's likely what it would take to raise the ratio of useful to useless comments significantly.
But the OP's suggestion of limiting forum participation to ESO+ members isn't going to have that effect.
Huh? I don't support the OP's idea in the slightest. I simply want stronger moderation. Locking the forum behind eso+ would be asinine and effectively kill the place.
forever stuck in combat1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »ilikepickles wrote: »
The laws don't apply, but if you agree with the concept, it does.
Closed internet communities that censor their members as a rule are often just abandoned to die.
So, while it's true that "free speech laws" may not be enforced, the concept of "free speech" is respected, even if just for the sake of surviving.
Unless you live in North Korea, or something...
Just saying
I'm a free speech advocate, but I'm also a supporter of freedom from speech, at least in private homes, clubs and by extension internet communities. The amount of worthless toxic garbage just on these forums suggests the need for stricter controls via heavier moderation.
No we don't.
Go back to page one and read the whole thing again, that's an amazing example of why free speech works.
Someone says something, the idea is challenged, and mocked mercilessly if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Stupid ideas need to be expressed, that way they can be killed, with reason and logic, through debate.
If you censor them, they live under the snow, waiting for the environment to be fertile again.
Freedom from speech is just an echo chamber, or a circle jerk, call it what you want
If you want to wallow in the muck and the mire help yourself. Some of us aren't here to wade through a swamp or debate nonsense with toxic morons. This is a video game forum, not a civics class. Bring on the censorship. I welcome it with open arms.
And how exactly, does removing all posters except ESO+ members magically raise the ratio of useful to useless comments?
See if this is about tougher moderation, where the mods make sure topics stay on topic and come down on dead horse threads, and removing bait threads, and wield a firm hand on moderating arguments like some forums I frequent, I'd probably be okay with that. That's likely what it would take to raise the ratio of useful to useless comments significantly.
But the OP's suggestion of limiting forum participation to ESO+ members isn't going to have that effect.
Huh? I don't support the OP's idea in the slightest. I simply want stronger moderation. Locking the forum behind eso+ would be asinine and effectively kill the place.
Okay, cool. I suspect we mostly agree on the benefits of stronger moderation and also agree on the OP's suggestion not being a great way to get those benefits.1 -
yiasemi✭✭✭✭I live in a village with people from all over the world. Most are Chinese but there is a sizeable minority of just about everywhere else. It's cheap and cheerful, the internet sucks, I play here only thanks to my phone some days, but it is a wonderful world we live in. I'm a ESO+ member since day one and I love them all. It's just a shame there is so little time. Ivory towers suck when you let down your hair and no one climbs up.1 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The most whining threads I read coming from people without ESO+ membership.
Most of them complaining about features, demanding this and that.
Let them read-only the forums except "customer support-help" where they can adress questions.
Wow the bigotry in this forum is astounding...Isn't there a "freedom of speech" clause in that country?
Thats not how freedom of speech works either..
I have to disagree with you here.
You may be right regarding the OP, but I have been reading the comments here, and it seems that the response is overwhelmingly against the OP.
http://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-resources/about-educational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does
You did note that I bolded what I was disagreeing with you about?
Wow the bigotry in this forum is astounding...
I live in Australia, so your Free Speech website is irrelevant.
I'm also Australian so they are irrelevant to me as well which is the point tbh these forums have no freedom of speech Zeni can do and say what ever they want and we cannot do anything about it.1 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just recently I saw pre-order options for another game, you know those founder packages or whatever they call it. Different options from under $100, to $1000 to $10.000 and of course the option to contact them if you'd like to go beyond that.
One of the different perks lists as (but is not directly explained on the page anywhere)
Tiername Forum Access
If you google it you'll find the explanation that you get more sub-forums that the others don't have access to.
I for one will not even try that game for free. You have fun feeling like a sub-customer because you did not fork over 4 to 5 digits, or have fun feeling special if you did. I for one don't feel like paying for the privilege to be heard.
Keep these forums open like they are please.Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett0 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭lol why? I'm a cheap student surviving on noodles. Ain't nobody got time for that constant ESO+
Maybe this will help?
I became quite adept at making ramen/noodles decent meals back in the day.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭Pays for ESO+ Monthly - wow, I'm the greatest supporter of the game
Buys DLC each 3 months -omg, I'm not helping the game at all2 -
Aisle9✭✭✭✭✭
✭ilikepickles wrote: »
The laws don't apply, but if you agree with the concept, it does.
Closed internet communities that censor their members as a rule are often just abandoned to die.
So, while it's true that "free speech laws" may not be enforced, the concept of "free speech" is respected, even if just for the sake of surviving.
Unless you live in North Korea, or something...
Just saying
I'm a free speech advocate, but I'm also a supporter of freedom from speech, at least in private homes, clubs and by extension internet communities. The amount of worthless toxic garbage just on these forums suggests the need for stricter controls via heavier moderation.
No we don't.
Go back to page one and read the whole thing again, that's an amazing example of why free speech works.
Someone says something, the idea is challenged, and mocked mercilessly if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Stupid ideas need to be expressed, that way they can be killed, with reason and logic, through debate.
If you censor them, they live under the snow, waiting for the environment to be fertile again.
Freedom from speech is just an echo chamber, or a circle jerk, call it what you want
If you want to wallow in the muck and the mire help yourself. Some of us aren't here to wade through a swamp or debate nonsense with toxic morons. This is a video game forum, not a civics class. Bring on the censorship. I welcome it with open arms.
And therein lies the problem.
If you don't like the discussion, you can leave the discussion, you have that power, thus removing yourself from the muck and the mire, while I can keep helping myself.
If you ask for me to be censored I won't be able to help myself.
In the first case, we both have options.
In the second case, I don't.
Plus, who knows, tomorrow it might be you.
That's incredibly melodramatic and you know it. I think "this is a video game forum" pretty much sums up the incredibly minor relevance of this issue. This is a private forum. Our rights here are only what are granted by the owner. I think we should have fewer rights to spout garbage here, you think otherwise. My opinion will apparently not sway you, nor will yours sway me. That being the case, I think I'm finished.
ToS = Terms of Service
EULA = End User License Agreement
These 2 documents are the contracts between the "owner" (which BTW receives payment to keep the service up, and not just by ESO+, everyone bought the game and paid it with money) and anyone found breaking the rules of said contracts is already being moderated.
If the rules contained in said documents are not broken, the "owner" will let people discuss the topic, because otherwise people will leave, as it would be dishonest to offer a service, receive payment, then refusing to provide said service.
Freedom of Speech is pretty much universally recognized as an inalienable right by western societies, so the "owner" (provider is more accurate, BTW, they provide a service in exchange for payment) would lose customers.
So, you can disagree with me if you want, you're free to do so, but you're wrong, I'm open to change my mind, if you present me with a reasonable argument.
Nobody did so far.
All I heard was hearsay, sprinkled with a bit of ignorance.
Moderation already happens, in accordance with a contract between the provider and the customers. If you ask for more moderation, I assume you're asking for moderation against dissenting opinions.
If it's not the case you'll have to clarify your concept of "toxicity", because it's really easy to throw it around and ask for censorship.
Have a nice day.
*edit*
Oh, I'd like to add. Some "toxic" comments sparked changes in game, so preventing people from discussing them will have an impact in the actual game... Yeah, it's just a game, but I paid for it, and the forums were part of the package.
Edited by Aisle9 on April 12, 2018 3:20PMArtemis Absinthe - DC magicka nightblade (PC - EU)
Gruzosh Barrelsmasher - DC stamina sorcerer (PC - EU)
Kew'bacca - AD stamina nightblade (PC - EU)
Jebediah Orbrynn - DC magicka templar (PC - EU)
Hold-Many-Bags - Mule DK, Promoted to main tank, occasionally stamDD
Olaf Proudstache - Mule - No longer with us Now a Stamwarden healer
Aglieglie Brazorf - AD magicka sorcerer (PC - EU)
Rodolfo Lavandino - DC stamina, greatsword wielding, Jesus beam spamming, Redguard hybrid templar just a stamplar again (PC - EU)
Lemmy Raise Master - EP stamina necromancer (PC - EU)
Scions of Dawn recruitment ad - PC EU multifaction PvE endgame raiding guild
LUI user - I can see you when you fap loot.
#SpellswordArmy
#MakeSpellswordsGreatAgain
In the Game of PuGs you win or you ragequit
"Dip dip potato chip, dip dip potato chip"0 -
yiasemi✭✭✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »lol why? I'm a cheap student surviving on noodles. Ain't nobody got time for that constant ESO+
Maybe this will help?
I became quite adept at making ramen/noodles decent meals back in the day.
Yeah, back in the day many of us elder and probably more affluent forum members remember living off noodles while writing our essays. In my day they came from shops called delicatessan which was code for foreign food, I wanted to do a reply like that but I think we had more hope for the future too. I dunno what to say to my kid or my nieces and nephews. At least we are FTP (the game). I cost more.2 -
Aebaradath✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You know... being helpful and constructive would've been someone locking this thread.Greetings, we removed several comments that were baiting and off topic. This is a friendly reminder to keep conversation constructive and on topic. If you have any questions about our forum rules, you can read through them here. Thank you for your understanding.
1 -
TarrNokk✭✭✭✭Hmm you wouldn't be a Trump supporter would you?
Only rich people should have nice things right?[Edited to remove quote]
ESO+ won't get Summerset, they will have to pay as well (it's a Chapter, not a DLC) and in money, not crowns.
ESO+ don't get to play during maintenance (they are actually the most vocal about it since "they paid for it").
ESO+ don't have better drop rate from boxes.
ESO+ kick as many russians(?) and people with low CP from groups as non subs.
You seem a bit confused.
Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.
I am not confused, probably you don't want understand.
Thank you.0 -
Inarre✭✭✭✭✭
✭You dont even have a voting poll.
But it's not needed anyway because 99/100 votes will be no.
Thats like saying people who don't pay taxes don't have the right to an opinion.2 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »lol why? I'm a cheap student surviving on noodles. Ain't nobody got time for that constant ESO+
Maybe this will help?
I became quite adept at making ramen/noodles decent meals back in the day.
All you need is ... (love, dub dub doobi doo)
Learn to master the art of can-opener and you will never go hungry.
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭im against this idea purely because it would spread the negativity of the forum even further.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
Aisle9✭✭✭✭✭
✭just a suggestion after reading so many posts of complaining people about summerset and jewelry crafting behind paywall this, behind paywall that,ESO+ won't get Summerset, they will have to pay as well (it's a Chapter, not a DLC) and in money, not crowns.the anniversary gotten not enough desired motifs from boxes because they can't stuff enough in their greedy maws,ESO+ don't have better drop rate from boxes.about ZOS maintenance politics etc.p.p.ESO+ don't get to play during maintenance (they are actually the most vocal about it since "they paid for it").Same people who reject any sort of elitism do kick out russian players from pug, players with low cp or low HP.ESO+ kick as many russians(?) and people with low CP from groups as non subs.I am not confused, probably you don't want understand.
Thank you.
Artemis Absinthe - DC magicka nightblade (PC - EU)
Gruzosh Barrelsmasher - DC stamina sorcerer (PC - EU)
Kew'bacca - AD stamina nightblade (PC - EU)
Jebediah Orbrynn - DC magicka templar (PC - EU)
Hold-Many-Bags - Mule DK, Promoted to main tank, occasionally stamDD
Olaf Proudstache - Mule - No longer with us Now a Stamwarden healer
Aglieglie Brazorf - AD magicka sorcerer (PC - EU)
Rodolfo Lavandino - DC stamina, greatsword wielding, Jesus beam spamming, Redguard hybrid templar just a stamplar again (PC - EU)
Lemmy Raise Master - EP stamina necromancer (PC - EU)
Scions of Dawn recruitment ad - PC EU multifaction PvE endgame raiding guild
LUI user - I can see you when you fap loot.
#SpellswordArmy
#MakeSpellswordsGreatAgain
In the Game of PuGs you win or you ragequit
"Dip dip potato chip, dip dip potato chip"0 -
Prospero_ESO✭✭✭✭The problem is that if one ESO+ subscribers can write, nobody interested in ESO and considering playing is able to get information and ask questions, it would be pretty dumb from ZOS to do that.1
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TarrNokk✭✭✭✭Just to clarify : I didn't asked for a voting, I just voted for something, probably wrong words from a not native English speaker. But the discussion is what I desired and I enjoy.
And to those who feel in the vast majority of "no" : most people that agree with OP don't post but gave 23 "agree" and a few awesome.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just to clarify : I didn't asked for a voting, I just voted for something, probably wrong words from a not native English speaker. But the discussion is what I desired and I enjoy.
And to those who feel in the vast majority of "no" : most people that agree with OP don't post but gave 23 "agree" and a few awesome.
TarrNokk, you really don't want us to comb through this post comparing your Agrees and Awesomes to those of the opposing side. (Which, in the interested of transparency wouldn't be a good metric anyway since people can agree with more than one post - however, there is one "No" comment with 20 agrees and 1 awesome by an ESO+ subscriber so I'm going to suggest that your results aren't all that significant.)
If you want an actual poll, make a poll. Let us vote and then you can see how the forum community actually feels rather than relying on your agrees.Edited by VaranisArano on April 12, 2018 3:09PM1