Buff 1H weapon traits by 5%

Aedaryl · April 2018

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

The issue here is that everyone saying something valid in this context/situation. In PVP DW is pretty rare as raw DPS over a period of time is meaningless in comparison to CCs and Burst. Clearly not the same as skeleton pounding.

Consider a DW vs 2H head to head in PVP. DW can spam Rapid Strikes and DOT Slashes. Since Rapid Strikes is a channel, the DW is effectively self-rooted. One Dizzy Swing later the DW is near one shot'd in damage, stunned, knocked back and I'm not sure these days, after stun recovery will also endure an off-balance debuff. (The DW lines does offer a single CC across the entire line, forget multiple effects in a single skill.) After that, at most a Reverse Slice / Executioner and ding ding ding, its over. (Another issue, DW has no execute.) DW is now, 2 hits, dead, done and dusted.

DW in PVP only made sense in the context of giving up effective melee combat for the offset of gaining the 5-5-2 build option. With that advantage now gone, very hard pressed to find a reason (ok, lets be blunt, there are none) for DW in PVP. Currently, it is already pretty rare to see DW in PVP, with a much larger ratio of 2H over DW. Expect DW to vanish like the Dodo for PVP when the changes hit.

If you play PVP, how many times have you looked at the Death Log and seen some serious damage from Flurry? Or even seen Flurry for that matter. Now how many times have you bit the dust from Dizzy Swing and/or Reverse Slice? One is a never happens and one is a yea, all the time. This is not serendipity.

So currently in a straight-up 1v1 DW vs 2H there is a big, big gap in PVP. Now consider that 2H just received for free!! an additional 400 Weapon Damage across the entire 2H line because they now get the Set Bonus from Automaton. Or now will get a big windfall in Stam + Stam recovery because their Dubious now procs Bone Pirate. These are not minor tooltip swings.

The ubiquitous nature of this change plus there are already so many 2H and Bow builds in PVP that will now get that Bone Pirate or Automaton or XXX buff from some second meta Set that wasn't there before, will clearly have the largest single impact to PVP balance ever. One can assume that historically Sets and Tooltips were balanced (or attempted to be) on the assumption of 5-5-2 or not 5-5-2. Now all that is out the window and I don't think there no compensating Tooltip and Set adjustments happening with this change. Pro or Con, which depends totally on your current build, it does mean that everyone's current build is now N/A and will radically change. For some it will be a Set adjustment, for others entire "styles of play" are gone and builds are dead. There will also be another big drop in PVP build diversity and skills.

Aedaryl wrote: »

@IAVITNI You are wrong.

2h is a trash weapon for doing damage.

Dizzing swing is the best burst stamina can have ?

This is just false. 1&D deal more burst damage than dizzing swing, and the gap will be increase even more next patch.

The 1h&S is infused + berserk glyph. The 2h is nirn with the infused berserk glyph proced on the 1&S bar. I took the best WD possible for 2h and a 100% uptime wd for 1h&S.

2h WD : 4626 => Dizzing swing burst: 17 691.

1h&S WD : 4134 => Heroic slash burst is a combo : light attack (4556) + heroic slash (9685) + bash (5250) = 19491.

2h burst is the noob burst. Good people cut anim and make it instant and without a cast time.

2H is trash weapon? rofl. 2H is best weapon the game for PVP and solo PVE. Just see how much buffs 2H gives. So everyone is running trash weapon for solo PVE and PVP. what noobs they are.
How about nerfing the buffs for brawler & forward momentum& reverse slice ? Its long overdue. Its going to tilt PVP balance in long way from summer-set isles.

You can take damage buffs you want for 2H. Can we trade ? 2H is just trash according to your opinion !!!

I said : 2h is trash for doing damage. Not 2h is trash for everything.

Rally/Foward mementum is why every one is running 2h. Reverce slice is also a good execute.
Gap closer aren't used anymore because they are kinda trash. Lingering + speed potion make the job.

Now, stop being stupid and accept your error. 1&S is better spammable, and 2h is used for rally/FW mainly.

Checkmath · April 2018

damage wise 2h is garbage, dual wield provides more damage and even 1h and shield has actually the same damage output like an uppercut swinging barbar. once again 2h is mostly used as buff and heal bar with a finisher. most stamina toons dish out damage with sword and shield or dual wield, debuff and then change for the execute fo the 2h bar. the only class, which can make a good combo out of 2h is stamden, where we have the combo deep fissure, medium weave, uppercut, dawnbreaker. but the damage from uppercut isnt the dangerous thing there. same goes for uppercut into a leap, mostly the damage comes from leap then. additionally uppercut is very easy to avoid, walk one step into the enemy and he lost you as target and uppercut stops. you should slowly realize it: 2h is for buffing and healing, the damage from uppercut is beaten by dual wields damage and sword and shields damage. everyone who spams uppercut is an easy kill.
once more, damage is better from dual wield and pretty much the same from sword and shield, while sword and shield also provides lot of debuffs. so most stam builds dish out damage with sword shield and also debuffs the same moment till in execute range. only exception is the warden combo.

NyassaV · April 2018

Highly unreasonable demand. DW already has higher weapon and spell damage values not to mention giving access to 2 weapon traits and the best heavy attacks in the game which are only truly beneficial to stam builds

IAVITNI · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

@IAVITNI You are wrong.

2h is a trash weapon for doing damage.

Dizzing swing is the best burst stamina can have ?

This is just false. 1&D deal more burst damage than dizzing swing, and the gap will be increase even more next patch.

The 1h&S is infused + berserk glyph. The 2h is nirn with the infused berserk glyph proced on the 1&S bar. I took the best WD possible for 2h and a 100% uptime wd for 1h&S.

2h WD : 4626 => Dizzing swing burst: 17 691.

1h&S WD : 4134 => Heroic slash burst is a combo : light attack (4556) + heroic slash (9685) + bash (5250) = 19491.

2h burst is the noob burst. Good people cut anim and make it instant and without a cast time.

But the 2h combo has a built in stun, so you can still add a light attack into the equation. Then you have to account for the other benefits of your opponent being stunned as well.
I'm at work so I can't do it myself, but you also have to consider that come next patch the 2h setup will also be benefitting fomr a second 5 pc set.So the base damage of 2h will go up considerably while the 1h&shield damage will remain relatively the same.

I'm not disagreeing that it is very easy to counter Dizzy. 1h&shield became popular because of the shift to the tank meta,which required more sustained dps and innate tankiness. With the bump to 2H, their burst is very likely to be able to do what it was able to prior to the 1h&shield meta.

Checkmath · April 2018

there will not be much change with 2h counting as 2 items, since most stamina setups already provide 5/5/2, just not only at all the time. still the used sets are so good, that the meta will not change drastically, so you most likely see the same sets as before just active for 100% now. so no really a buff actually.

Priyasekarssk · April 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

The issue here is that everyone saying something valid in this context/situation. In PVP DW is pretty rare as raw DPS over a period of time is meaningless in comparison to CCs and Burst. Clearly not the same as skeleton pounding.

Consider a DW vs 2H head to head in PVP. DW can spam Rapid Strikes and DOT Slashes. Since Rapid Strikes is a channel, the DW is effectively self-rooted. One Dizzy Swing later the DW is near one shot'd in damage, stunned, knocked back and I'm not sure these days, after stun recovery will also endure an off-balance debuff. (The DW lines does offer a single CC across the entire line, forget multiple effects in a single skill.) After that, at most a Reverse Slice / Executioner and ding ding ding, its over. (Another issue, DW has no execute.) DW is now, 2 hits, dead, done and dusted.

DW in PVP only made sense in the context of giving up effective melee combat for the offset of gaining the 5-5-2 build option. With that advantage now gone, very hard pressed to find a reason (ok, lets be blunt, there are none) for DW in PVP. Currently, it is already pretty rare to see DW in PVP, with a much larger ratio of 2H over DW. Expect DW to vanish like the Dodo for PVP when the changes hit.

If you play PVP, how many times have you looked at the Death Log and seen some serious damage from Flurry? Or even seen Flurry for that matter. Now how many times have you bit the dust from Dizzy Swing and/or Reverse Slice? One is a never happens and one is a yea, all the time. This is not serendipity.

So currently in a straight-up 1v1 DW vs 2H there is a big, big gap in PVP. Now consider that 2H just received for free!! an additional 400 Weapon Damage across the entire 2H line because they now get the Set Bonus from Automaton. Or now will get a big windfall in Stam + Stam recovery because their Dubious now procs Bone Pirate. These are not minor tooltip swings.

The ubiquitous nature of this change plus there are already so many 2H and Bow builds in PVP that will now get that Bone Pirate or Automaton or XXX buff from some second meta Set that wasn't there before, will clearly have the largest single impact to PVP balance ever. One can assume that historically Sets and Tooltips were balanced (or attempted to be) on the assumption of 5-5-2 or not 5-5-2. Now all that is out the window and I don't think there no compensating Tooltip and Set adjustments happening with this change. Pro or Con, which depends totally on your current build, it does mean that everyone's current build is now N/A and will radically change. For some it will be a Set adjustment, for others entire "styles of play" are gone and builds are dead. There will also be another big drop in PVP build diversity and skills.

Aedaryl wrote: »

@IAVITNI You are wrong.

2h is a trash weapon for doing damage.

Dizzing swing is the best burst stamina can have ?

This is just false. 1&D deal more burst damage than dizzing swing, and the gap will be increase even more next patch.

The 1h&S is infused + berserk glyph. The 2h is nirn with the infused berserk glyph proced on the 1&S bar. I took the best WD possible for 2h and a 100% uptime wd for 1h&S.

2h WD : 4626 => Dizzing swing burst: 17 691.

1h&S WD : 4134 => Heroic slash burst is a combo : light attack (4556) + heroic slash (9685) + bash (5250) = 19491.

2h burst is the noob burst. Good people cut anim and make it instant and without a cast time.

2H is trash weapon? rofl. 2H is best weapon the game for PVP and solo PVE. Just see how much buffs 2H gives. So everyone is running trash weapon for solo PVE and PVP. what noobs they are.
How about nerfing the buffs for brawler & forward momentum& reverse slice ? Its long overdue. Its going to tilt PVP balance in long way from summer-set isles.

You can take damage buffs you want for 2H. Can we trade ? 2H is just trash according to your opinion !!!

I said : 2h is trash for doing damage. Not 2h is trash for everything.

Rally/Foward mementum is why every one is running 2h. Reverce slice is also a good execute.
Gap closer aren't used anymore because they are kinda trash. Lingering + speed potion make the job.

Now, stop being stupid and accept your error. 1&S is better spammable, and 2h is used for rally/FW mainly.

Please understand what trash means. You are countering your own argument. I always do 2H not DW for solo PVE & PVP. Just spam brawler and reverse slice against mobs. Most players do. 2H is trash is no one going to agree to a top weapon in the game.
We can trade 2H ablities with damage ? Why no reply to question ? Who is stupid here ?

IAVITNI · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

there will not be much change with 2h counting as 2 items, since most stamina setups already provide 5/5/2, just not only at all the time. still the used sets are so good, that the meta will not change drastically, so you most likely see the same sets as before just active for 100% now. so no really a buff actually.

But it does increase up time to 100% which is significant on its own.

Tbh I wasn't even considering stamina builds, it was more magicka classes that will now be destro or bust. It's really trading one devil for another. Instead of magplars being pidgeoned into DW they will now be stuck with Destro like pretty much every other mag class. MagDks might be still run sword and board.

Checkmath · April 2018

Lol i go 2h and sword and shield with my magplar;)
You wont get much more by using sets, who already have a cooldown. So they perfectly fit the setup of having them one barred. Examples are sets that boost the damage of a skill line, proc sets like viper, 7th legion, werewolfhide, ravager....and much more.
@Priyasekarssk
2h isnt garbage totally, it has nice passives and good utility woth momentum, but damage wise its underwhelming. Good for you if you spam brawler in PvE, but that doesnt work ib PvP. Same goes for spamming uppercut, you just gimp yourself by doing it.