Racials Should be Changed

Vahrokh · April 2018

Some racials are done allright, some are made wrong.

Example of a racial done right: +crit. Others will use Mechanical Acuity, you can achieve the same with a set that does not increase crit%.

Example of a racial done WRONG: Altmer's. The others shall just do worse at magick, there's no situation whatsoever where another race can exploit its racial to overcome that. To make it right, they should give workarounds. In example, a Dunmer should deal more damage than Altmer when dealing against fire-sensitive creatures and this situation should be common enough that one picks the race because he likes this feature. As of now, it's Altmer or die. Sure, the practical difference is within some %, but that % is immediately visible.
It's annoying to see the same player achieving 42k DPS or 39k DPS just because he switched race. Especially, there's no situational content when the 39k could turn to 45k DPS, to reward the choice of a generally-worse but situationally-better race. As of now it's always worse and that's it. To add further injury, the higher DPS also comes with higher regen. There's no "give up and take" in this.

WakeYourGhost · April 2018

Cheveyo wrote: »

And then there's the fact that certain racials don't fit. Like Imperial racials, for example, don't fit with the way Imperials are supposed to be in lore. They're magicka users, ffs.

In no Game ever in the ES series (Except for the massively dumbed down down Skyrim) are the Imperials Spellcasters/Magicka Users.

They have no bonuses to anything Magicka in any game EXCEPT Action-Slasher Skyrim.
Honestly, you're going to just pull fake "Lore" out of fat air to pretend this game isn't "Lore Friendly" - This isn't going to be a productive conversation.
Also, if you're going to claim "Skyrim" as your source (Even if you didn't say Skyrim, it's obvious that it's likely the only other ES game you've played, because Imperials are NOT Magicka users anywhere else), then you might as well give up now. Not only is that game set Three Eras from now (Thousands of Years), thus radically changing cultures and possible even inherited traits - That game is also the single most simplified ES game in the entire series, and it dropped a lot of cultural "Precedent" for the sake of ease-of-use and generalizing.

Better luck next time... Also, try playing an Actual ES game - You may like it.
I'mma get back to playing ESO without all races made in to a hot mess of a homogenized flavorless paste.

Taleof2Cities · April 2018

That is a serious wall of text, @Kashya_Vulano. Ever thought about going into grant writing for a living?

You certainly can play an Altmer Dragonknight for 95% of the content in the game. Just like other Elder Scrolls games, “play as you want” doesn’t always translate to “best in slot”.

WakeYourGhost · April 2018

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

You certainly can play an Altmer Stamina Dragonknight Tank for 100% of the content in the game. Just like other Elder Scrolls games, “play as you want” doesn’t always translate to “best in slot”.

Fixed it for ya.

aeowulf · April 2018

The only issue with races is diminishing returns not being present.

Right now, the greater your magicka/stamina pool, your base regen or even weapon damage in the case of orc, the greater your race affects this. This means that race has a greater impact on min/maxers and the more casual folks nice less impact.

I like the flavour, but it should probably be switched into an (expanded) cp system, where each race gets, plus 5, 10, 15 <whatever> points in a certain skill. This would allow any race to be as good at any specific task given enough desire, whilst still leaving a good portion of flavour outside the meta-gang.

DanteYoda · April 2018

I agree the whole racial thing really limits people playing classes and races.. I made a high elf Sorceress and got her to 10 the whole time thinking she too tall and should be a bosmer.. I feel dirty not playing a tiny bosmer... why are all other races so huge...

Damn you ESO and making me play stuff i don't enjoy...

DoobZ69 · April 2018

Hey there, long time visitor, first time poster.

I think everyone here forgets that there is a huge financial benefit to ZOS to keep racials imbalanced in perpetuity. Every time someone changes a spec from stamina to magicka and vice versa they are faced with a load of racials which are no longer of any use to them. This forces them to either "lore" with it and have 9 unused skill points (disadvantaged) or re-roll a toon or buy a race change (obviously ENTIRELY your choice). Rolling a new toon can take up quite a lot of time and doing all the achievements again for the same class is a total nuisance. I opted for buying a race change, so did a few of my friends; the cost is only 1 hours wages at work compared to hundreds of hours re-rolling. This is extra cash in ZOS's pocket (2 months of ESO+ membership). Now imagine someone with 5 class toons who has to do this to them all! All the arguing between forum posters back and forth means nothing when there is a financial incentive for the developer to keep things status quo.

Yes, of course they will "balance" the racials when they are either too powerful or too weak. However, as long as there are people who will quite happily tell Shalidor to go re-roll when he tries to join a vhmTrial because he's not "meta" and back their argument behind "lore friendly" ZOS have every excuse to leave things the way they are.

Racials should be an enhancement to the RPG element and add flavour to uniqueness. As it stands the races are shoehorned into certain roles and the player is forced to choose:RPG or practicality. There is no reason changes cant be made to any race within lore friendly bounds to allow them to add value to either stam or mag builds. Unfortunately some people feel that if you want to play a non-traditional role+class+race combo you should push *** up hill all day long.

I want to pick a race based on visuals and lore, not bonuses that come with them. I want to pick my class based on flavour, not specific strengths. I want to play any role because thats the role I enjoy playing. If those 3 do not align, and currently they dont, ZOS run the risk of losing me as a customer because this is how they (I believe) advertised the game. At the end of the day it is a choice for them to make which customers to please but for one group of community to stop another from trying to get improvements for the game which will benefit them both is shameful. Noone is suggesting changes to make one more powerful than another, they are suggesting the exact opposite. There is no good reason to argue against a more balanced, fair game, for all.

Sukenlihol · April 2018

Magic Damage buff for Bretons. Daggerfall needs damage passives for Magickas.

Turelus · April 2018

Supporting others with the fact these are lore friendly. When I think of each TES race I think of the passives close to what ESO has them as.

You also don't have to play to them unless you're pushing for super competitive gameplay. Plenty of people play an enjoy the game with characters which are not optimised race/build.

Skander · April 2018

No, the passives are good like this.
And altmers have weak constitution, so there is no reason for giving them stam recovery

Parasaurolophus · April 2018

Tu`um is a magic too. So altmery are the best dragonborns. Where is you "Lore Friendly" now?

dangutang · April 2018

I like the flavor that racial passives add. The functionality of stat/recovery/damage bonuses just enhances this, for me, at least (i.e. as opposed to "pure" flavor bonuses that aren't that functional, like decreased fall damage). The fact that other races don't get these bonuses adds to it. Like a sense of identity for your char, or something. But, you make a good point about how within the lore, there are exceptions to the rules that current racial passives set up.

My answer would be adding a 2nd line of passives to each race, basically analogous to a stam/magicka morph. This way, we can retain racial flavor to builds and gameplay, but still increase diversity. Might also be cool to think up what cultural/historical aspects of each race might translate to these bonuses. Like, what magicka bonuses could the lore confer to orcs or nords?

waitwhat · April 2018

Question for the pro-racial passives people: Would the Ansei's shehai swings scale off max mag or max stam?

KanedaSyndrome · April 2018

I agree with your sentiment 100%, I am the author of a similar thread created yesterday. My Similar Thread

How to fix it can be done in many ways, bottom line though is that you should be able to choose any role regardless of race, and still be as effective as any other race, within margins of 2%.

I support a more heavy focus on flavor and utility racials, stuff that doesn't directly impact combat performance, but all the fluff.

waitwhat · April 2018

Why do khajiit have excellent health recovery if they're particularly susceptible to the Knahaten flu and Thrassian plague?

starkerealm · April 2018

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

magical orcs? never!

Great, now I've got an image of a Magical Girls style anime... with orcs. That mental image'll stick. @Ghettokid, Magical Orcs!

waitwhat · April 2018

Does the Reachman's half-Nord heritage make him half as good at magic vis-a-vis a full Breton, and 25% as good as a full Direnni?

waitwhat · April 2018

Why do Altmer guards exclusively carry swords and shields rather than staves to pacify a presumably magicka-talented populace?

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2018

waitwhat wrote: »

Question for the pro-racial passives people: Would the Ansei's shehai swings scale off max mag or max stam?

Just like with the Thu'um I believe it would draw from Stamina.

AlnilamE · April 2018

zadrotscrolls wrote: »

Tu`um is a magic too. So altmery are the best dragonborns. Where is you "Lore Friendly" now?

Tu'um is speech.

Though I concede the Altmer love to hear the sound of their own voices. Have you been to Banished Cells, Selene's Web or Tempest Island?

starkerealm · April 2018

waitwhat wrote: »

Why do Altmer guards exclusively carry swords and shields rather than staves to pacify a presumably magicka-talented populace?

Because they're all hybrid builds running Pelinal's Aptitude. They're cheating ********. :P

Odnoc · April 2018

Playing Meta is not lore friendly, there is nothing stopping you from playing how you want. If you want to min/max then yeah, there are choices you need to make, but you’re still playing how you want, you’re just prioritizing min/maxing over playing a Khajiit mage.

josiahva · April 2018

I disagree. The passives really don't make that much difference and should only matter to you if you are a min/max type of person. So what if your stamsorc has extra magicka? Just means he can streak more often than a stam sorc without...even if it comes at the cost of less stam. There are fights where extra magicka for streak will be far more useful than extra stam(the inhibitor comes to mind). Your viewpoint is distorted...regardless of what years of PvE may have taught you, maximum DPS is not the end all and be all of this game...dead DPS do no damage...survival and adaptability are more useful 90% of the time...this is why PvP players have such bad DPS...its just not as important in a dynamic environment like PvP(or vMA for that matter). The ONLY time max DPS makes a real difference is certain PVE bosses that MUST be burned down ASAP once they reach a certain threshold and even then racial passives make a marginal difference...gear is much more of a factor...and individual skill the biggest factor of all

waitwhat · April 2018

If Nords don't have a widespread magical tradition, why are there so many undead Draugr running about Skyrim?

waitwhat · April 2018

If it weren't possible for races to be, en masse, talented at magicka and stamina based abilities, why did the dwemer make so many heavy weapons that their myriad animunculi are designed not to use?

Azyle1 · April 2018

I feel this is a tough conversation to have.

I get both sides of the argument:

On one hand, it's attempting to follow a lore standard.

On the other, it makes all stamina Nightblades play either Khajiit or Redguard with everything else being much worse.

While you can clear ALL content with any race and class combo (Even vet, just maybe not top of the leaderboards), there are races that give you free DPS just for picking them.

Azyle1 · April 2018

josiahva wrote: »

I disagree. The passives really don't make that much difference and should only matter to you if you are a min/max type of person. So what if your stamsorc has extra magicka? Just means he can streak more often than a stam sorc without...even if it comes at the cost of less stam. There are fights where extra magicka for streak will be far more useful than extra stam(the inhibitor comes to mind). Your viewpoint is distorted...regardless of what years of PvE may have taught you, maximum DPS is not the end all and be all of this game...dead DPS do no damage...survival and adaptability are more useful 90% of the time...this is why PvP players have such bad DPS...its just not as important in a dynamic environment like PvP(or vMA for that matter). The ONLY time max DPS makes a real difference is certain PVE bosses that MUST be burned down ASAP once they reach a certain threshold and even then racial passives make a marginal difference...gear is much more of a factor...and individual skill the biggest factor of all

Human element is a huge factor. Most guilds will laugh you out of the game if you are trying to be a Khajiit MagBlade.

Even if you can do competitive DPS and understand mechanics, people will say you cannot complete content like that, which is a lie BTW.

Recremen · April 2018

If a Redguard and a Nord have a baby what passives does the child get access to, the frost resist or the adrenaline rush? Neither, it's Shadowkey now so they get Ra'Gada Spirit, reducing damage taken from magickal attacks.

Ghettokid · April 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

magical orcs? never!

Great, now I've got an image of a Magical Girls style anime... with orcs. That mental image'll stick. @Ghettokid, Magical Orcs!

@starkerealm thanks for busting this filthy little kitten. @xenowarrior92eb17_ESO because of your hate speech, you are permapnently banned from Magical Orc Union

MaleAmazon · April 2018

Completely agree with OP. Only skimmed through some parts though.

Some arguments:

1. "Racials were always in". Yes, and you could mod them (which people did), and it was single-player, and TES has pretty consistently moved away from permanent bonuses that you get when first starting out (birthsigns, classes...). Explicitly stating this is because you are supposed to develop your character yourself while playing.

Some people simply think not locking players in is ´dumbing down´. There´s no point in discussion with them, usually.

2. Just because a certain race is generally better at X, doesn´t mean ALL members of that race are better at X (which is how it works in ESO). Also, you are supposed to be exceptional in some sense.

I think they should rework them completely: Put all racial skills in a pool, give them morphs like stamina / magicka, and generally make them a bit stronger. So you might have something like:

Nimble: Increases your Health Recovery by 20% and Stamina Recovery by 10%.

Morph 1:

Practiced thief: Increases your Health Recovery by 20% and Stamina Recovery by 10%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3m.

Morph 2:

Persistent mage: Increases your Health Recovery by 20% and Magicka Recovery by 20%.

This way wou will get meaningful choices rather than the current, mindnumbing 'which is the stam DPS race?' "choice".

Though I suppose with stuff like "race change token" this is a cash cow that unfortunately will remain.

Oh, and all my characters are Nords, partly cause I´m Swedish and partly since I think their bonuses are fine and work on both magicka and stamina characters. And yeah, you can do well enough with them. So racials are just.. meh. A small bonus to lock you into certain races if you want that extra edge. No choice, it might as well have been an auto-filler.

´Tis stupid.