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Potential Stam Sorc buff?
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Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »I'd really like to see a stam morph of mines some day, would help stam sorcs kite & possibly set up some interesting plays.
not a perfect replacement but stamsorcs do use caltrops/rearming trap in the overload bar to buy time while kiting.
Its not perfection but stamsorc is not out of options like some people claim it is.
I would say buffing rearming trap to allow having 2-3 traps at different locations, could probably a better move.
Edit: actually considering rearming trap is the PvE morph, It would be a better idea to use lightweight trap for such a change.
It’s not that they’re out of options but compared to most classes you’re pretty much relegated to weapon damage skills. Overload is also really unreliable in a fast paced fight.2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »I'd really like to see a stam morph of mines some day, would help stam sorcs kite & possibly set up some interesting plays.
not a perfect replacement but stamsorcs do use caltrops/rearming trap in the overload bar to buy time while kiting.
Its not perfection but stamsorc is not out of options like some people claim it is.
I would say buffing rearming trap to allow having 2-3 traps at different locations, could probably a better move.
Edit: actually considering rearming trap is the PvE morph, It would be a better idea to use lightweight trap for such a change.
It’s not that they’re out of options but compared to most classes you’re pretty much relegated to weapon damage skills. Overload is also really unreliable in a fast paced fight.
I do believe stamDK and Ssorc are on the same boat as both classes are basically forced into weapon skills with no alternatives. stamDk has 2 dots, but doesn't have utility skills like crit surge,armaments,dark deal etc.
GDB and igneous shields are both total joke abilities.
Which is why I'm saying, the easiest solution is to improve those weapon skills that both classes use commonly.
Like why not rework wrecking blow into something more similar to suprise attack, or why not buff/rework fighters guild-undaunted abilities that are outdated?
About overload, I said that it is not perfect, but even swapping bars has some delay, so overload should also have some delay to keep it balanced. Thats the price you pay for a third utility bar ^^ Its great to have when you leave some distance between you and your chasers.
You must use it wisely and time it well, which is one of the few differences between a good stamsorc and an amazing one.Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 17, 2018 10:18PM0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightweight trap could be given the same mechanic as manifestation of terror, 1 trap at caster location 1 at cursor locatikn3 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭As a PVP stamsorc i think we don't need a buff.
Please stop mixing combat capability and class "flavor/uniqueness".
Sure if you are playing all stam classes, stamsorc will feel less "unique" because the class abilities will be used for utility and it doesn't have a signature spammable like Jabs/Birds/Lash/etc...
But this is not a balance problem because the few class skill we are using are packed with great numbers (hurricane, critical surge) or very high utility (Ball of lightning, dark deal), and stamsorc is a great platform for weapon skills, fighters guilds skills and werewolf.Aznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club4 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not hurricane, but Ball of Lightning.
This gives you a clear escape vs Offense choice and makes Ball a competitive option while not making the class snare immune.
Now that I've had some sleep, I actually think this is a much better idea.
The stacking cost prohibits spamming, to an extent and it already has that theme.
Honestly think I should do a full post explaining why the class actually needs something.
This would be a buff to both forms of sorc and create build diversity.
If you’re gonna run medium with shuffle+rally then streak is the choice still. But in heavy, ball would then let you get some mobility. We could attach immunity for the length of the absorb and it would let you get space and purge a snare but require careful use to avoid being snared again.
Yeah, basically the perspective I am coming from is that heavy armour Stam Sorc just feels kinda bad nowadays. If you go heavy then you need to run forward momentum, otherwise you get kited for days, despite your speed.
But if you are running Forward Momentum, you are giving up Rally, something I used to not have any issue with, but with the state of CP PVP, I really feel myself missing the heal vs Defile, especially given that Stam Sorc has the weakest Vigor in the game (DK, Warden and Templar have passive healing buffs, and Nightblade has Cloak).
This is all the result of thinking about class identity, and that Stam Sorc's entire thing is being mobile, but you don't really feel it these days.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is it isn’t it? Stam Sorc is going to go the way of Stam DK, and both are going to be put into the closet. You can tell which classes are alive, plenty of discussions about NBs both mag and stam, mag sorcs as always, Templars still have a lot of class skills for stamina and magicka, wardens aren’t going anywhere, plenty of discussion surrounding mag sorcs and mag DKs, but keeping a discussion going about Stam Sorcs or Stam DKs, is like talking to a wall, you can just feel that nothing is going to happen.3 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is it isn’t it? Stam Sorc is going to go the way of Stam DK, and both are going to be put into the closet. You can tell which classes are alive, plenty of discussions about NBs both mag and stam, mag sorcs as always, Templars still have a lot of class skills for stamina and magicka, wardens aren’t going anywhere, plenty of discussion surrounding mag sorcs and mag DKs, but keeping a discussion going about Stam Sorcs or Stam DKs, is like talking to a wall, you can just feel that nothing is going to happen.
Don't worry, we are getting buffs.
Not needing to double slot Bound Armour and getting 15% cost reduction after blocking a hit should fix all the problems the class has.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is it isn’t it? Stam Sorc is going to go the way of Stam DK, and both are going to be put into the closet. You can tell which classes are alive, plenty of discussions about NBs both mag and stam, mag sorcs as always, Templars still have a lot of class skills for stamina and magicka, wardens aren’t going anywhere, plenty of discussion surrounding mag sorcs and mag DKs, but keeping a discussion going about Stam Sorcs or Stam DKs, is like talking to a wall, you can just feel that nothing is going to happen.
Don't worry, we are getting buffs.
Not needing to double slot Bound Armour and getting 15% cost reduction after blocking a hit should fix all the problems the class has.
Oh right my mistake. Another classics wtf moment from the one and only combat geniuses behind the stam DK nerfs.3 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, basically the perspective I am coming from is that heavy armour Stam Sorc just feels kinda bad nowadays. If you go heavy then you need to run forward momentum, otherwise you get kited for days, despite your speed.
But if you are running Forward Momentum, you are giving up Rally, something I used to not have any issue with, but with the state of CP PVP, I really feel myself missing the heal vs Defile, especially given that Stam Sorc has the weakest Vigor in the game (DK, Warden and Templar have passive healing buffs, and Nightblade has Cloak).
This is all the result of thinking about class identity, and that Stam Sorc's entire thing is being mobile, but you don't really feel it these days.
I run in heavy without forward momentum/rally and without vigor, some key points :
- Major expedition + Lingering health potions
- Defensive Stance on shield bar (staff users are no threat if they try to kite you)
- Troll King : if you take heavy damage just use your speed to LoS or use Ball of Lighting to put some space
- Shacklebreaker for a big dark deal capacity
- Automaton for the damage.
This works great in Duel / Battleground / Small scale Cyrodiil, as you can beat any other setup 1v1 and you have the mobility to avoid any fight you don't want to take.Aznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club0 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah, basically the perspective I am coming from is that heavy armour Stam Sorc just feels kinda bad nowadays. If you go heavy then you need to run forward momentum, otherwise you get kited for days, despite your speed.
But if you are running Forward Momentum, you are giving up Rally, something I used to not have any issue with, but with the state of CP PVP, I really feel myself missing the heal vs Defile, especially given that Stam Sorc has the weakest Vigor in the game (DK, Warden and Templar have passive healing buffs, and Nightblade has Cloak).
This is all the result of thinking about class identity, and that Stam Sorc's entire thing is being mobile, but you don't really feel it these days.
I run in heavy without forward momentum/rally and without vigor, some key points :
- Major expedition + Lingering health potions
- Defensive Stance on shield bar (staff users are no threat if they try to kite you)
- Troll King : if you take heavy damage just use your speed to LoS or use Ball of Lighting to put some space
- Shacklebreaker for a big dark deal capacity
- Automaton for the damage.
This works great in Duel / Battleground / Small scale Cyrodiil, as you can beat any other setup 1v1 and you have the mobility to avoid any fight you don't want to take.
I'm assuming DW on your other bar?
How do you get around getting Defiled? I've found that that on my current setup I really need to make use of Vigor plus a Rally pop to get myself back up again after getting jumped by a Nightblade, or after a reverb combo.
Apart from that I've moved to double offense bars, and try to rely on Brass + Shuffle and Bloodspawn to tank my way through stuff.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds1 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, basically the perspective I am coming from is that heavy armour Stam Sorc just feels kinda bad nowadays. If you go heavy then you need to run forward momentum, otherwise you get kited for days, despite your speed.
But if you are running Forward Momentum, you are giving up Rally, something I used to not have any issue with, but with the state of CP PVP, I really feel myself missing the heal vs Defile, especially given that Stam Sorc has the weakest Vigor in the game (DK, Warden and Templar have passive healing buffs, and Nightblade has Cloak).
This is all the result of thinking about class identity, and that Stam Sorc's entire thing is being mobile, but you don't really feel it these days.
I run in heavy without forward momentum/rally and without vigor, some key points :
- Major expedition + Lingering health potions
- Defensive Stance on shield bar (staff users are no threat if they try to kite you)
- Troll King : if you take heavy damage just use your speed to LoS or use Ball of Lighting to put some space
- Shacklebreaker for a big dark deal capacity
- Automaton for the damage.
This works great in Duel / Battleground / Small scale Cyrodiil, as you can beat any other setup 1v1 and you have the mobility to avoid any fight you don't want to take.
I think I've seen your build one time in a very stamsorc heavy match recently (I was on magWarden, but like 5/12 stamsorcs in the match). And while your damage output was good (using automaton, too), you seemed to be 80% of the time busy with getting away and recoveriing. I remember wondering if that guy forgot to slot vigor when interrupting his dark deals with crushing. Hope I meet you again in BG, but I'm not sold on the non-vigor thingy, it seemed to cut your time spent infight significantly and forced you to pull out of group fights very early.Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy1 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Yeah, basically the perspective I am coming from is that heavy armour Stam Sorc just feels kinda bad nowadays. If you go heavy then you need to run forward momentum, otherwise you get kited for days, despite your speed.
But if you are running Forward Momentum, you are giving up Rally, something I used to not have any issue with, but with the state of CP PVP, I really feel myself missing the heal vs Defile, especially given that Stam Sorc has the weakest Vigor in the game (DK, Warden and Templar have passive healing buffs, and Nightblade has Cloak).
This is all the result of thinking about class identity, and that Stam Sorc's entire thing is being mobile, but you don't really feel it these days.
I run in heavy without forward momentum/rally and without vigor, some key points :
- Major expedition + Lingering health potions
- Defensive Stance on shield bar (staff users are no threat if they try to kite you)
- Troll King : if you take heavy damage just use your speed to LoS or use Ball of Lighting to put some space
- Shacklebreaker for a big dark deal capacity
- Automaton for the damage.
This works great in Duel / Battleground / Small scale Cyrodiil, as you can beat any other setup 1v1 and you have the mobility to avoid any fight you don't want to take.
I think I've seen your build one time in a very stamsorc heavy match recently (I was on magWarden, but like 5/12 stamsorcs in the match). And while your damage output was good (using automaton, too), you seemed to be 80% of the time busy with getting away and recoveriing. I remember wondering if that guy forgot to slot vigor when interrupting his dark deals with crushing. Hope I meet you again in BG, but I'm not sold on the non-vigor thingy, it seemed to cut your time spent infight significantly and forced you to pull out of group fights very early.
The other thing about dropping Vigor is that you are also losing group utility. Half the reason I feel Stam builds are so strong is that when you heal yourself, you are also healing your buddy at the same time.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds1 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭
I'm assuming DW on your other bar?
How do you get around getting Defiled? I've found that that on my current setup I really need to make use of Vigor plus a Rally pop to get myself back up again after getting jumped by a Nightblade, or after a reverb combo.
My most used bars :
Dual wield : Bloodcraze - Ball of Lightning (BG or Cyro) / Rearming trap (Duel) - Hurricane - Critical surge - Bound armor - Werwolf
1H&S : Pierce armor - Reverb - Defensive Stance (BG or Cyro) / Heroic slash (Duel) - Dark Deal - Bound armor - Dawnbreaker (BG or Duel) / Overload (Cyro)
Against defile i reply with defile myself and more pressure to put the opponent of defense, from there my health sustain covers anything the opponent is able to throw at me between two defensive actions.
Against a nightblade incap combo :
- cc break
- block the spectral bow shot
- light attack . reverb . bash
- light attack . pierce armor . bash
- nightblade had now cc break, he is at 65% health while Trollking and your other HoTs has put you back from 40% to 70% health.
- nightblade tries to reset the fight, follow him around with major expedition and hurricane up, apply pressure until death.
Aznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club0 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I'm assuming DW on your other bar?
How do you get around getting Defiled? I've found that that on my current setup I really need to make use of Vigor plus a Rally pop to get myself back up again after getting jumped by a Nightblade, or after a reverb combo.
My most used bars :
Dual wield : Bloodcraze - Ball of Lightning (BG or Cyro) / Rearming trap (Duel) - Hurricane - Critical surge - Bound armor - Werwolf
1H&S : Pierce armor - Reverb - Defensive Stance (BG or Cyro) / Heroic slash (Duel) - Dark Deal - Bound armor - Dawnbreaker (BG or Duel) / Overload (Cyro)
Against defile i reply with defile myself and more pressure to put the opponent of defense, from there my health sustain covers anything the opponent is able to throw at me between two defensive actions.
Against a nightblade incap combo :
- cc break
- block the spectral bow shot
- light attack . reverb . bash
- light attack . pierce armor . bash
- nightblade had now cc break, he is at 65% health while Trollking and your other HoTs has put you back from 40% to 70% health.
- nightblade tries to reset the fight, follow him around with major expedition and hurricane up, apply pressure until death.
Ah your setup makes a lot more sense now that I see you have werewolf.
Was wondering before how you handled the tougher targets.
From my experience, Stam Sorc can't really pull enough damage with Sword and Board to reliably bring down tougher opponents.
I've been running Fortified, Bloodspawn Unfathomable, Asylum.
Don't know what it is about running double offensive bars, but it seems to be working pretty well. Though I am not a huge fan of having to go back to Dizzying as my main form of CC, though having access to three bleeds admittedly does help against people who turtle.
Honestly I just wouldn't feel comfortable relying only on surge and dark deal for heals, given that I don't think I'm good enough to survive getting chunked and pressured.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds0 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I think I've seen your build one time in a very stamsorc heavy match recently (I was on magWarden, but like 5/12 stamsorcs in the match). And while your damage output was good (using automaton, too), you seemed to be 80% of the time busy with getting away and recoveriing. I remember wondering if that guy forgot to slot vigor when interrupting his dark deals with crushing. Hope I meet you again in BG, but I'm not sold on the non-vigor thingy, it seemed to cut your time spent infight significantly and forced you to pull out of group fights very early.
The nature of my healing (HoTs and TK) in human form makes that yes there is a threshold in incoming damage beyond which i have to disengage to loose focus. However while some will empty their resources in burst heal/shield/dodge to stay in this fight while not dishing out much damage, i'll come back 4 sec later charged up and ready to fight.
But you have a good grasp of what happens when i'm in difficulty.The other thing about dropping Vigor is that you are also losing group utility. Half the reason I feel Stam builds are so strong is that when you heal yourself, you are also healing your buddy at the same time.
This is true, vigor can be a strong tool in Battleground, but in decisive team fights my group utility will come the AoE Fear and off-balance provided by my Werewolf kit.
Not running vigor also allows me to run with very low stamina regen and go full weapon damage on my jewelry.From my experience, Stam Sorc can't really pull enough damage with Sword and Board to reliably bring down tougher opponents.
it's true that i need Werewolf to down maybe the 10-20% toughest targets, but don't underestimate the damage output of a good [light attack - pierce armor - bash] weave, i'd say it's on par with any other non-execute spamable.Aznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Looking forward to playing bow sorc next patch; they're almost viable even Live, but after these changes...
Being able to slot Armaments on one bar only is a huge buff, and it buffing light attacks (not the *** bow heavy attacks) is another big buff (a buff worth "16 CPs in Physical Expert").
Also getting huge cost reductions just for block canceling something should help immensely as well.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Looking forward to playing bow sorc next patch; they're almost viable even Live, but after these changes...
Being able to slot Armaments on one bar only is a huge buff, and it buffing light attacks (not the *** bow heavy attacks) is another big buff (a buff worth "16 CPs in Physical Expert").
Also getting huge cost reductions just for block canceling something should help immensely as well.
We haven’t really seen if it’s still offering the stam and regen boost on both bars or if you only get the extra regen on one bar. Also how long it’s going to last and whether it still offers the restistances.1 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've actually been looking over things, and honestly I think the biggest thing coming in Stam Sorcs favour is Imbue weapons.
The damage on it is by all accounts pretty strong, and when coupled with Light attack buffs, and the change to Armaments, I feel like the class is actually getting a net positive in terms of PVP and PVE
Being able to frontload a bunch of damage onto a couple of light attacks makes comboing people down easier, and it gives you a psuedo spammable in PVE.
Also the passive in the skill line that pops a phys damage orb after repeated in combat uses might also be pretty neat.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds1 -
Dyride✭✭✭✭✭I used to run SnB/DW stam sorc quite a bit. It was especially fun before they nerfed Trainee and Troll King. I rarely found Bound Armaments to be worth the slots over something like Quick Cloak and Vigor. Changing the basic attack calculation to include max stam could put it back over the top though I'm waiting to see what comes with the PTS.
I think the Bound Armor change will only give the passive boosts on that bar, which will result in resource desyncs unless double slotted. It would be nice if you kept the effect for 4 secs after a bar swap for people who quickly move between bars.
I'm actually thinking PO skill Acceleration could be a nice magicka dump and source of Minor Force without someone in a Trap. Plus the Sprint cost reduction could be nice on my Orc.
From the jewelry crafting, I think Infused Weapon damage or Regen with one Triune will be a nice setup. Though I am curious to see how one or two Swift traits feel.V Є H Є M Є И C Є
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Celestro✭✭✭Do you mean double barring Armaments, replacing Shrouded Daggers as the spammable for Imbue Weapons buff + Psijic damage passive and running with that, more or less? Could also just put Atro on backbar for sustain passive to take effect, but that actually sounds pretty awesome. I was wondering how to possibly include Imbue Weapons into a PVE stamsorc rotation, but something along those lines just might be worth checking out since I didn't consider dropping Shrouded or perhaps even Deadly Cloak since its being nerfed and hell, the new Persistence passive on top of that Psijic blocking damage shield seems like a decent bit of mitigation by itself. Can't say it's enough, but got even more to play around with.Edited by Celestro on April 5, 2018 10:51PM0
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Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Do you mean double barring Armaments, replacing Shrouded Daggers as the spammable for Imbue Weapons buff + Psijic damage passive and running with that, more or less? Could also just put Atro on backbar for sustain passive to take effect, but that actually sounds pretty awesome. I was wondering how to possibly include Imbue Weapons into a PVE stamsorc rotation, but something along those lines just might be worth checking out since I didn't consider dropping Shrouded or perhaps even Deadly Cloak since its being nerfed and hell, the new Persistence passive on top of that Psijic blocking damage shield seems like a decent bit of mitigation by itself. Can't say it's enough, but got even more to play around with.
With blade cloak getting its damage nerfed, and the shield on block, I'd say that you could pretty safely drop it for Imbue. Flying Blade could also be replaced with Trap for more weapon damage on your front bar, since Imbue is now your spammable.
Still double bar armaments to prevent stam desync, and to get the buff for LA damage on bow bar.
You'd basically weave Imbue > Light Attack > Ability > Light Attack, on your front bar.
If you needed resources, you'd go with Imbue > Heavy Attack > Ability > Light Attack, since that still gets you both procs on Imbue.
Sustain then becomes the biggest issue, so it really depends on how expensive Imbue ends up being.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds0