Don't follow premade builds, make your own!!

Smokewood · April 2018

It is really easy to look up what others have done and just copy them, but where's the fun?
I highly suggest developing your own builds through trial and error....

Datthaw · April 2018

As much as I agree and enjoy to do just that, if you want to be competitive, be it pve or pvp, there is and always will be a "meta".

It's just the nature of games. Some min maxing stat cruncher is gonna run the numbers and figure out what's the "best" setup

Minno · April 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

As much as I agree and enjoy to do just that, if you want to be competitive, be it pve or pvp, there is and always will be a "meta".

It's just the nature of games. Some min maxing stat cruncher is gonna run the numbers and figure out what's the "best" setup

Though sometimes the numbers lie, especially if you like to do things differently than the meta-finders.

For example, there was a sorc that made a well fitted build and boosted the ability to dodge roll with streak for repositioning. There was also a magDK that used staffs that made all the DK mains lose their mind because they are stuck behind the meta mentality.

It's really about what you find fun and then getting the highest stats to support it. For example I abhor vampire in PvP, so I made a build that tries to do without it on my magplar. It may not 1vx tater-tots like a stamina build, but in BGs it doesn't need to do that, it's fine there. And BGs I find the most fun/balance for PvP.

Smokewood · April 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

As much as I agree and enjoy to do just that, if you want to be competitive, be it pve or pvp, there is and always will be a "meta".

It's just the nature of games. Some min maxing stat cruncher is gonna run the numbers and figure out what's the "best" setup

You don't need the BEST setup (whatever that means) to be successful in the game.
What does BEST mean anyway?
Most DPS (or threat, or healing)? - How much is really required? How many ways can you build your toon to hit that mark?
What's more important, getting that extra 1 to 5%, or having fun with a build you figured out from the ground up?

There are no right or wrong answers here BTW....

Illurian · April 2018

It really depends on what content you are running, and with whom.

Solo, no one gives a toot if you run around bare fisted, punching things to death.

However, if you join a veteran dungeon or trial with the group having the intention of actually clearing the dungeon/trial in a timely, efficient manner, then it behooves you to perform to your maximum potential. You using your bare knuckles trying to punch a boss to death in a vet dungeon/trial makes you a liability to the entire group; you are essentially wasting the time/effort of your entire group because you want to be a special snowflake.

Honestly, most people don't need you to follow a cookie cutter build to remain competitive. Your numbers just have to be there. For example, if you are somehow able to pull 30k DPS on a 6 mil dummy with your bare knuckles, more power to you. No one will complain about your play style for majority of the content of the game, as you are able to pull the numbers expected of you (or more).

EDIT: Also, playing as efficiently as possible and having fun are not mutually exclusive. A lot of people have a lot of fun finding ways to optimize their characters as much as possible.

cjhhickman39 · April 2018

I do agree with op, finding your own build is very satisfying but don’t gimp yourself by not looking at some of the meta builds.
This can help someone new figure out how different skills and passives effects your build.

TheDarkShadow · April 2018

Play as you like, as long as it doesn't affect others enjoyment. I don't care what build you use as long as you do your job in group. I once was put in a vet RoM group with 17k damage TOTAL. I did around 2k as tank, the healer probably did the same or a bit more, give it 3k. It mean 2 DDs, both 400cp+ did 12k COMBINE. They can be the fastest orc sorc who can run at max speed and dodge rolling around all day but it does not help in that dungeon, or any other dungeon. Needless to say I did not enjoy that run.

Psyonico · April 2018

Sometimes you just don't know what to do, that's where build guides come in.

For example, I have no idea what sets are good for pet sorcs, so I plan on looking up a guide for it.

llElLoboll · April 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

As much as I agree and enjoy to do just that, if you want to be competitive, be it pve or pvp, there is and always will be a "meta".

It's just the nature of games. Some min maxing stat cruncher is gonna run the numbers and figure out what's the "best" setup

While this is true there seems to be a huge portion of the copy and pasters that don't understand that just because it's the "best" build out there that doesn't mean that you have the skill to run the "best" build or that it fits your play style preference.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2018

Smokewood wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

As much as I agree and enjoy to do just that, if you want to be competitive, be it pve or pvp, there is and always will be a "meta".

It's just the nature of games. Some min maxing stat cruncher is gonna run the numbers and figure out what's the "best" setup

You don't need the BEST setup (whatever that means) to be successful in the game.
What does BEST mean anyway?
Most DPS (or threat, or healing)? - How much is really required? How many ways can you build your toon to hit that mark?
What's more important, getting that extra 1 to 5%, or having fun with a build you figured out from the ground up?

There are no right or wrong answers here BTW....

The issue is that the gap between non-optimal and optimal builds is far too wide. As a result, as soon as you do group content, people will "strongly advise" you to wear the meta - else not play with you. Because no one wants to carry someone with 8K DPS all the time. And you don't want to be carried either. As a result, you end up with the meta, whether you want it or not.

Anotherone773 · April 2018

ive done top tier raiding in many games over the years. Ive DPS, tanked, healed raids. I have yet to use a meta build to do any of it. And yes, as DPS ive been near the top of the group list, rarely below the top third of damage dealt. Meta is for people who need an instruction manual.

Smokewood · April 2018

If you can read the skill descriptions and use common sense, it really isn't that hard to get right.

Illurian · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

ive done top tier raiding in many games over the years. Ive DPS, tanked, healed raids. I have yet to use a meta build to do any of it. And yes, as DPS ive been near the top of the group list, rarely below the top third of damage dealt. Meta is for people who need an instruction manual.

You do 10k dps on the 3mil dummy, and claim that adding DoTs to your rotation brings your dps down.

Please get off your high horse.

Xvorg · April 2018

Minno wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

As much as I agree and enjoy to do just that, if you want to be competitive, be it pve or pvp, there is and always will be a "meta".

It's just the nature of games. Some min maxing stat cruncher is gonna run the numbers and figure out what's the "best" setup

Though sometimes the numbers lie, especially if you like to do things differently than the meta-finders.

For example, there was a sorc that made a well fitted build and boosted the ability to dodge roll with streak for repositioning. There was also a magDK that used staffs that made all the DK mains lose their mind because they are stuck behind the meta mentality.

It's really about what you find fun and then getting the highest stats to support it. For example I abhor vampire in PvP, so I made a build that tries to do without it on my magplar. It may not 1vx tater-tots like a stamina build, but in BGs it doesn't need to do that, it's fine there. And BGs I find the most fun/balance for PvP.

I'm working on a stamplar that does not use jabs

Minno · April 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

As much as I agree and enjoy to do just that, if you want to be competitive, be it pve or pvp, there is and always will be a "meta".

It's just the nature of games. Some min maxing stat cruncher is gonna run the numbers and figure out what's the "best" setup

Though sometimes the numbers lie, especially if you like to do things differently than the meta-finders.

For example, there was a sorc that made a well fitted build and boosted the ability to dodge roll with streak for repositioning. There was also a magDK that used staffs that made all the DK mains lose their mind because they are stuck behind the meta mentality.

It's really about what you find fun and then getting the highest stats to support it. For example I abhor vampire in PvP, so I made a build that tries to do without it on my magplar. It may not 1vx tater-tots like a stamina build, but in BGs it doesn't need to do that, it's fine there. And BGs I find the most fun/balance for PvP.

I'm working on a stamplar that does not use jabs

You'll have more fun than a magplar trying to do the same lol.

Turelus · April 2018

Smokewood wrote: »

If you can read the skill descriptions and use common sense, it really isn't that hard to get right.

However if you're looking to maximise your characters abilities you're going to end up in the same basic build area as those guides.

You don't NEED the best builds to complete content, but many people want to be the best they can be, the guides give good basic builds for reaching that level. Then after that players can adjust and tweak to fill in their holes or compliment their groups.

It doesn't help ZOS are balancing high end gameplay around higher end groups, meaning sure you can do 20k DPS and have your own build, but if you want to do that vAS+2 it's going to be painful and you're not getting that speed run achievement.

DDuke · April 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

As much as I agree and enjoy to do just that, if you want to be competitive, be it pve or pvp, there is and always will be a "meta".

It's just the nature of games. Some min maxing stat cruncher is gonna run the numbers and figure out what's the "best" setup

That''s true in PvE (although sometimes "BiS" means using sets designed to support other DPS in the group), one can always calculate the most optimal setup DPS wise.

However, I think PvP is a tabula rasa in this regard and what works there is largely determined by what other people are playing.

Like for example let's say the meta is full of squishy 20k health dodge rollers or even squishier (when they don't have shield up) dmg shield builds: you're gonna have a field day as a stealth oriented high dmg build ("ganker"). That carefully calculated "BiS" sustain and dmg shield strength don't matter anymore.

Now let's say most people suddenly decided they'd had enough of those annoying stealthers & started playing heavy armor & slotting anti-stealth skills - the meta, as it is, shifts (regardless of how "BiS" gear those gankers are using).

Usually there's also an added element of surprise when playing builds that are unfamiliar to people which increases your odds when playing something new as they don't know what to do about it (yet).

But yeah, in general coming up with unique, different builds & playstyles enriches the gameplay experience for everyone - no one likes facing the same builds over and over again

Anotherone773 · April 2018

Illurian wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

ive done top tier raiding in many games over the years. Ive DPS, tanked, healed raids. I have yet to use a meta build to do any of it. And yes, as DPS ive been near the top of the group list, rarely below the top third of damage dealt. Meta is for people who need an instruction manual.

You do 10k dps on the 3mil dummy, and claim that adding DoTs to your rotation brings your dps down.

Please get off your high horse.

Dont be upset because you need an instruction manual to do decent DPS. Also stop taking my posts out of context. The context of my post was this( in relation to "can i do good dps without a bunch of skills"):

I do 10k on a dummy on a trash character that isnt even built for combat using 2 skills and normal attacks using arguably the worse(main) weapon in the game. This trash character is a support character for my other characters. Master Crafter, thief, assassin, gather, fisherman, and other nonsense. He only uses 1 weapon and has less than 300 CP.

And yes i can achieve better dps without all the nonsense. If you need an instruction manual and a 20 button rotation to achieve decent dps, thats your problem. I dont. Rotations are for people who dont know how to play. Skills are situational and a combat environment dictates different skills are needed at different times. Rotations are for people who dont understand what skill is needed when, so the best way to teach them to be functional in a group is give them an instructional manual and sear it into their brain.

So go ahead and sit on your pedestal, and watch youtube videos, read articles, and spend hours shooting at dummy. Meanwhile, ill play the game. But dont act all superior with me because i dont play like you. I dont NEED to play like you. I use the most effective skills at the most effective times based on the situation. THAT is how i can still achieve good numbers without rotations, instruction manuals, videos, and dummy practice.

I bolded the important part for you since it seems to go over your head.

Protip: play a hardcore pvp game for a few years, where rotations dont work and you have to constantly react to humans instead of AI's in combat and you will learn to play like me, and you will toss meta BS out the window.

Xvorg · April 2018

Minno wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

As much as I agree and enjoy to do just that, if you want to be competitive, be it pve or pvp, there is and always will be a "meta".

It's just the nature of games. Some min maxing stat cruncher is gonna run the numbers and figure out what's the "best" setup

Though sometimes the numbers lie, especially if you like to do things differently than the meta-finders.

For example, there was a sorc that made a well fitted build and boosted the ability to dodge roll with streak for repositioning. There was also a magDK that used staffs that made all the DK mains lose their mind because they are stuck behind the meta mentality.

It's really about what you find fun and then getting the highest stats to support it. For example I abhor vampire in PvP, so I made a build that tries to do without it on my magplar. It may not 1vx tater-tots like a stamina build, but in BGs it doesn't need to do that, it's fine there. And BGs I find the most fun/balance for PvP.

I'm working on a stamplar that does not use jabs

You'll have more fun than a magplar trying to do the same lol.

Yup... Magplar without sweep is like a bad sorc

Kelces · April 2018

Well, certain people keep a closed mind. I never ends, some people just need an echo chamber and specifically make threads for it, always refreshing to have one like this here.

They even assume things about you and put blame on you in the forums without ever having witnessed how different playstyles could be equally efficient too.

I encourage every one, to both keep an open mind for calculated efficiency as well as more creative builds as possible.

Smokewood wrote: »

If you can read the skill descriptions and use common sense, it really isn't that hard to get right.

Absolutely, this is what all those "calculators" don't get. Theory in numbers seldom gives you a fix on how the fight will look like.

Illurian · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

ive done top tier raiding in many games over the years. Ive DPS, tanked, healed raids. I have yet to use a meta build to do any of it. And yes, as DPS ive been near the top of the group list, rarely below the top third of damage dealt. Meta is for people who need an instruction manual.

You do 10k dps on the 3mil dummy, and claim that adding DoTs to your rotation brings your dps down.

Please get off your high horse.

Dont be upset because you need an instruction manual to do decent DPS. Also stop taking my posts out of context. The context of my post was this( in relation to "can i do good dps without a bunch of skills"):

I do 10k on a dummy on a trash character that isnt even built for combat using 2 skills and normal attacks using arguably the worse(main) weapon in the game. This trash character is a support character for my other characters. Master Crafter, thief, assassin, gather, fisherman, and other nonsense. He only uses 1 weapon and has less than 300 CP.

Seem to have hit a nerve, haven't we?

Yes, let's talk about that context, shall we? 10k dps aside, you state specifically in that post that adding DoTs to your rotation lowers your dps, which doesn't even make any logical sense. Many people have since corrected you and called you out on your BS.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

And yes i can achieve better dps without all the nonsense. If you need an instruction manual and a 20 button rotation to achieve decent dps, thats your problem. I dont. Rotations are for people who dont know how to play. Skills are situational and a combat environment dictates different skills are needed at different times. Rotations are for people who dont understand what skill is needed when, so the best way to teach them to be functional in a group is give them an instructional manual and sear it into their brain.

You seem to bank a lot of your argument on the claim that you deal more dps than people who learn and practice their rotations. Please, enlighten us and post some screenshots of your combat metrics parses.

You've got it all turned around. Rotations are for people who understand exactly what skill is needed when, and find the timing and placement for each skill to get optimal results.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

So go ahead and sit on your pedestal, and watch youtube videos, read articles, and spend hours shooting at dummy. Meanwhile, ill play the game. But dont act all superior with me because i dont play like you. I dont NEED to play like you. I use the most effective skills at the most effective times based on the situation. THAT is how i can still achieve good numbers without rotations, instruction manuals, videos, and dummy practice.

Did you really just say the equivalent of "Yeah, well I'm rubber and you're glue"?

You are the one who stated, and I quote, that "Meta is for people who need an instruction manual". How is it that I am the one who is on a pedestal when you literally tried to degrade anyone who follows the meta or who practices their rotations?

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I bolded the important part for you since it seems to go over your head.

Thanks, but that's not even the important part of your argument. 10k dps wasn't even the real issue. Your absurd claims in reference to DoTs were.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Protip: play a hardcore pvp game for a few years, where rotations dont work and you have to constantly react to humans instead of AI's in combat and you will learn to play like me, and you will toss meta BS out the window.

What was this about a pedestal?

I've played my fair share of PvP games of different genres (MOBAs, FPS, MMOs), but thank you for assuming that I don't know anything except rotations.

Also, your experience in PvP (or even PvE) in other games is entirely irrelevant to performing well in PvE in this game. Like I said in my previous post, if you are able to pull decent dps, no one will really care about your build. But you must be able to pull those numbers.

Checkmath · April 2018

I think meta rather shows up in pve, since most people use same skills and sets to achieve the maximum output. Sure non-meta builds exist, but are rather unwelcomed.
But in pvp there is more variety in my opinion. Still most players build around meta weapons, skills and sets, but as saif abit more variety and some exceptions.

Anotherone773 · April 2018

Illurian wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

ive done top tier raiding in many games over the years. Ive DPS, tanked, healed raids. I have yet to use a meta build to do any of it. And yes, as DPS ive been near the top of the group list, rarely below the top third of damage dealt. Meta is for people who need an instruction manual.

You do 10k dps on the 3mil dummy, and claim that adding DoTs to your rotation brings your dps down.

Please get off your high horse.

Dont be upset because you need an instruction manual to do decent DPS. Also stop taking my posts out of context. The context of my post was this( in relation to "can i do good dps without a bunch of skills"):

I do 10k on a dummy on a trash character that isnt even built for combat using 2 skills and normal attacks using arguably the worse(main) weapon in the game. This trash character is a support character for my other characters. Master Crafter, thief, assassin, gather, fisherman, and other nonsense. He only uses 1 weapon and has less than 300 CP.

Seem to have hit a nerve, haven't we?

Yes, let's talk about that context, shall we? 10k dps aside, you state specifically in that post that adding DoTs to your rotation lowers your dps, which doesn't even make any logical sense. Many people have since corrected you and called you out on your BS.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

And yes i can achieve better dps without all the nonsense. If you need an instruction manual and a 20 button rotation to achieve decent dps, thats your problem. I dont. Rotations are for people who dont know how to play. Skills are situational and a combat environment dictates different skills are needed at different times. Rotations are for people who dont understand what skill is needed when, so the best way to teach them to be functional in a group is give them an instructional manual and sear it into their brain.

You seem to bank a lot of your argument on the claim that you deal more dps than people who learn and practice their rotations. Please, enlighten us and post some screenshots of your combat metrics parses.

You've got it all turned around. Rotations are for people who understand exactly what skill is needed when, and find the timing and placement for each skill to get optimal results.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

So go ahead and sit on your pedestal, and watch youtube videos, read articles, and spend hours shooting at dummy. Meanwhile, ill play the game. But dont act all superior with me because i dont play like you. I dont NEED to play like you. I use the most effective skills at the most effective times based on the situation. THAT is how i can still achieve good numbers without rotations, instruction manuals, videos, and dummy practice.

Did you really just say the equivalent of "Yeah, well I'm rubber and you're glue"?

You are the one who stated, and I quote, that "Meta is for people who need an instruction manual". How is it that I am the one who is on a pedestal when you literally tried to degrade anyone who follows the meta or who practices their rotations?

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I bolded the important part for you since it seems to go over your head.

Thanks, but that's not even the important part of your argument. 10k dps wasn't even the real issue. Your absurd claims in reference to DoTs were.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Protip: play a hardcore pvp game for a few years, where rotations dont work and you have to constantly react to humans instead of AI's in combat and you will learn to play like me, and you will toss meta BS out the window.

What was this about a pedestal?

I've played my fair share of PvP games of different genres (MOBAs, FPS, MMOs), but thank you for assuming that I don't know anything except rotations.

Also, your experience in PvP (or even PvE) in other games is entirely irrelevant to performing well in PvE in this game. Like I said in my previous post, if you are able to pull decent dps, no one will really care about your build. But you must be able to pull those numbers.

I honestly dont care what your issues are. If you cant accept i can do just fine without all the meta nonsense, that is your problem.If you dont like my opinions, that is also your problem. However, if you keep trying to bait me into arguing with you about another topic from a different thread, i will report you for baiting and harassment. How you like those numbers?

VaranisArano · April 2018

I prefer to let others do the number crunching to figure out what's best and then steal what I like from their pre-made builds.

Tasear · April 2018

sure I will use chance post build

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349428/sorcerer-healers-collection-dragon-bones-updated-new-build-added#latest

best sorc healer theorycrafting is done here.

P.S healing and tanking is more creative come join us! Dps is not the good fun life. :'(

Illurian · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

ive done top tier raiding in many games over the years. Ive DPS, tanked, healed raids. I have yet to use a meta build to do any of it. And yes, as DPS ive been near the top of the group list, rarely below the top third of damage dealt. Meta is for people who need an instruction manual.

You do 10k dps on the 3mil dummy, and claim that adding DoTs to your rotation brings your dps down.

Please get off your high horse.

Dont be upset because you need an instruction manual to do decent DPS. Also stop taking my posts out of context. The context of my post was this( in relation to "can i do good dps without a bunch of skills"):

I do 10k on a dummy on a trash character that isnt even built for combat using 2 skills and normal attacks using arguably the worse(main) weapon in the game. This trash character is a support character for my other characters. Master Crafter, thief, assassin, gather, fisherman, and other nonsense. He only uses 1 weapon and has less than 300 CP.

Seem to have hit a nerve, haven't we?

Yes, let's talk about that context, shall we? 10k dps aside, you state specifically in that post that adding DoTs to your rotation lowers your dps, which doesn't even make any logical sense. Many people have since corrected you and called you out on your BS.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

And yes i can achieve better dps without all the nonsense. If you need an instruction manual and a 20 button rotation to achieve decent dps, thats your problem. I dont. Rotations are for people who dont know how to play. Skills are situational and a combat environment dictates different skills are needed at different times. Rotations are for people who dont understand what skill is needed when, so the best way to teach them to be functional in a group is give them an instructional manual and sear it into their brain.

You seem to bank a lot of your argument on the claim that you deal more dps than people who learn and practice their rotations. Please, enlighten us and post some screenshots of your combat metrics parses.

You've got it all turned around. Rotations are for people who understand exactly what skill is needed when, and find the timing and placement for each skill to get optimal results.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

So go ahead and sit on your pedestal, and watch youtube videos, read articles, and spend hours shooting at dummy. Meanwhile, ill play the game. But dont act all superior with me because i dont play like you. I dont NEED to play like you. I use the most effective skills at the most effective times based on the situation. THAT is how i can still achieve good numbers without rotations, instruction manuals, videos, and dummy practice.

Did you really just say the equivalent of "Yeah, well I'm rubber and you're glue"?

You are the one who stated, and I quote, that "Meta is for people who need an instruction manual". How is it that I am the one who is on a pedestal when you literally tried to degrade anyone who follows the meta or who practices their rotations?

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I bolded the important part for you since it seems to go over your head.

Thanks, but that's not even the important part of your argument. 10k dps wasn't even the real issue. Your absurd claims in reference to DoTs were.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Protip: play a hardcore pvp game for a few years, where rotations dont work and you have to constantly react to humans instead of AI's in combat and you will learn to play like me, and you will toss meta BS out the window.

What was this about a pedestal?

I've played my fair share of PvP games of different genres (MOBAs, FPS, MMOs), but thank you for assuming that I don't know anything except rotations.

Also, your experience in PvP (or even PvE) in other games is entirely irrelevant to performing well in PvE in this game. Like I said in my previous post, if you are able to pull decent dps, no one will really care about your build. But you must be able to pull those numbers.

I honestly dont care what your issues are. If you cant accept i can do just fine without all the meta nonsense, that is your problem.If you dont like my opinions, that is also your problem. However, if you keep trying to bait me into arguing with you about another topic from a different thread, i will report you for baiting and harassment. How you like those numbers?

My qualms are with you essentially calling anyone who takes the time to learn their builds and rotations mentally handicapped, especially since these accusations are completely and utterly baseless and couldn't be further from the truth.

I also take issue with you stating claims without any actual evidence to back them up, anecdotal or otherwise.

The exact same can be said to you; if you don't like my opinions, that's your problem.

I'm not afraid of you reporting my posts; I haven't bashed/flamed or, much to your chagrin I'm sure, baited at all. I'm sorry I can't say the same for you.

Danksta · April 2018

But what if I don't enjoy theory crafting or don't have the time for it? Maybe I enjoy the game by performing at my absolute maximum and meta builds work perfectly for me to accomplish that. This is a big game and people enjoy different aspects of it.

Anotherone773 · April 2018

Illurian wrote: »

My qualms are with you essentially calling anyone who takes the time to learn their builds and rotations mentally handicapped, especially since these accusations are completely and utterly baseless and couldn't be further from the truth.

Except i never said that. You assume far far to much about what someone says, rather than take it at face value. Some people cant think/make decisions on the fly. They need repetition and training for it. Some people cant or dont want to figure out what skill, armor, weapons, etc to use. Some people are followers and some are leaders. It has nothing to do with ones mental capacity, just how people process and use information.

I play by instinct, not memory/rotations/ theorycraft. You learn to play that way when you spend years playing hardcore pvp games. And no MOBAs and FPS are not hardcore. Hardcore means you suffer real losses, not a bit of gold and a repair bill. By real losses we are talking all of the currency you have on you PLUS all of your inventory PLUS a repair bill. In some you not only lose your inventory but also your "gear". So loses are very real while wins can give you significant gains from other player's deaths. IE: I kill you, i now own your stuff.

This teaches you to play strategically. Playing against humans who can either be very ridiculous in their actions or almost seem to have some sort of divine guidance teaches you to play the battle rather than something you "practiced" for 12 hours. Put these together and you learn to play strategically against unpredictable opponents, so you learn to make quick decisions on what is the best to do right now.

That is how i play games. I cant do rotations. Its boring as hell and instincts take over. For example, using my non combat character. You toss caltrops and endless hail, thats great until the boss moves out of it and you lose that dps until its recast. And bosses tend to move often in this game especially when you get into DLC content. It makes non targeted dots far less effective. So why waste resources on them? I dont. If i think i can get most or all of my ticks, ill toss the AOE, otherwise not wasting time and resources when there are better options.

Illurian wrote: »

I also take issue with you stating claims without any actual evidence to back them up, anecdotal or otherwise.

I dont need evidence to back up my claims. i dont need to record a bunch of videos for you for proof. I honestly could care less. Someone asks for opinions, i gave mine. Most people understand you take peoples opinions at face value. I cannot help if you need scientific proof of everything.Im not writing you a thesis on my opinion, so you feel better.

Illurian wrote: »

The exact same can be said to you; if you don't like my opinions, that's your problem.

The difference between me and you is my opinions are about a mentality and playstyle( elitist and meta, respectively). You actually bash and attempt to discredit other peoples opinions. Its a big difference. Im attacking a general mentality and playstyle. You are actually attacking people and their opinions when they dont agree with you. In fact you go as far as to carry it into another thread which is exactly what you did here, likely because i didnt respond to you in the other thread and you feel the need to be confrontational and "win" and you cant win something im not participating in.

Illurian wrote: »

I'm not afraid of you reporting my posts; I haven't bashed/flamed or, much to your chagrin I'm sure, baited at all. I'm sorry I can't say the same for you.

I havent bashed anyone. In both of these threads, this one and the one you stalked me from, the OP was asking a question or made a statement that was anti meta in nature. I voiced my opinion based on my experience. Its the elitists that come in these threads and bash on people who say anything except" You must play meta, you must do rotations, learn to play, gitgud" Most of these players just want to play the game and do content they paid for. They dont care about meta and rotations and leaderboards. They dont want to take a college course with a final exam on how to play just to play. They dont want to research and cram to learn a bunch of meta crap. They.just.want.to.play.the.game.

However, the elitists insist that everyone must play their way or they wont be "allowed" to play. And that just doesnt fly with me. There is nothing worse than some overachieving elitist neckbeard sitting in their mom's basement who isnt even old enough to drink telling everyone that they must meet THEIR " requirements" to do certain content.

Ive played multiplayer online games literally since they were invented. Longer than a third of the players in this game have been alive. And i know for a fact that content can be done without meta and rotations. And i am a very strong believer that people should play the way they want. And they should be able to do all the content they paid for even if they are terrible at it. I dont care if you die 20 times in a normal dungeon because you keep standing in stupid, you have every right to stand in stupid just as much as i do to move out of it. Sure it makes my life a little harder, but ill get over it, its just a game.

You know what funny? When you stop trying to force people to play a certain way, they naturally pick up parts of it that help them improve. Its kind of like if you yell at people they tend not to listen, but if you talk to them they will pay attention.

Im actually the extreme opposite of an elitist. Thats why i clash so hard with players with that mentality. I actually like newbies. I like playing with people who make their own builds. i like playing with players who want to carve their own path. I like playing with players that care about their own goals, not someone elses.

Newbies and casuals are pleasant people and they are fun to play with even if we die a lot or they cause the group to wipe. I have fun playing with them, even though they are just average when it comes to performance, usually. Its the high strung high stressed elitists that i hate playing with. They literally suck ALL of the enjoyment out of the game by turning everything into a competition they must win with a flawless victory.

Runefang · April 2018

Danksta wrote: »

But what if I don't enjoy theory crafting or don't have the time for it? Maybe I enjoy the game by performing at my absolute maximum and meta builds work perfectly for me to accomplish that. This is a big game and people enjoy different aspects of it.

Pretty much this, testing builds takes a lot of time. I do have fun trying out some new things but I always start with the 'meta' as the base.

I have a magplar with my own build since the meta isn't great but my other dps toons are basically just meta clones.

IxSTALKERxI · April 2018

You can never be ahead of the meta if you copy everyone else. :P

Lynx7386 · April 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

As much as I agree and enjoy to do just that, if you want to be competitive, be it pve or pvp, there is and always will be a "meta".

It's just the nature of games. Some min maxing stat cruncher is gonna run the numbers and figure out what's the "best" setup

The meta wasnt the meta until someone found a combination that worked and published it so others could copy it.

There will always be new hidden combinations popping up, given the ever-changing state of MMO's, and new meta setups will come and go. It's up to creative players to figure out what works.