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need help to counter mag nb and sorc
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Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭JXNwarrior wrote: »JXNwarrior wrote: »@Sergykid I think your current setup is fine as it's what I run on my orc stamplar. Some things to remember: gold nirnhoned main hand on your dual wield will give you 400+ more weapon damage, your max stam seems ultra low for that build and since Power of the Light scales off max stam you're gimping yourself a bit. Put all attributes in stam and run tri-stat glyphs so you hit about 23-24k health and 38kish stamina. Sustaining is harder for you I think because your max stam is low, but I would rather oversustain than undersustain so you can stay 2k recovery even with 38k+ max. Try and tweak your CP as well, there are some good Stamplar PvP builds out there to compare to. And Remember that you can cleanse curse and cripple.
Stamplar is harder to use against experience players as they can usually block/shield/dodge at the correct time of your burst combo. MagNB especially are good in duels because they can cloak and have a great burst with the bow proc. if you need more DoT pressure try using one axe on the dual wield, maybe double DoT poisons, and try to adapt to your opponent. If you do the same timed combo 4x and they negate it 4x then switch it up. Same goes for taking damage, try and learn their timing and adapt to it.
everything u say here i do already. Potl may scale off stamina but one's never gon be able to charge it fully. Max stam increase the damage pool it can copy, not the % it copies. How could i increase my stamina? It's 60 points in attributes, even if 64 won't increase it much, from 31k to 31.5k,
go full stamina glyphs on armor, maybe a tri-stat or two if your health is too low. [...] also try for 5 medium and 2 heavy for undaunted passives if you haven't already.
yeah i do that.
if i have 1400 recovery i only do jabs -> heavy attack -> jabs -> heavy attack, and my stamina remain on the same level. If i`m under pressure and i must break free, use vigor, roll out (once), and throw a CC, i`m out of stam.I don't worry about my recovery, because duel wield heavy attacks are quick to get off, allowing me to restore resource without too much effort.
They don't die with what u described. And trap is the thing that make my kills. That minor force, the dot, and forcing them to roll so i use DB is the thing that makes me kills and forces stamina out of mag targets.Rending slashes, power of the light, CC, jabs and a dawnbreaker are enough to kill most targets quickly. [...] So trap is not going to help you, especially since a nightblade and sorc running shields are going to want to stay ranged.
not a chance ... i have magicka for 3 cleanses. The way i`m debuffed i really need all those 3 cleanses, no room for the class gap closer.Even though it costs magicka, the aedric spear gap closer ability is clutch on a stamplar.
a permablock DK won't die from my 3 bleeds with potl up. Even a decent tank won't die from it. Jabs isn't taking out of stealth anyone, tried it.Bleeds are op against shields, as a stamplar this shouldn't be too much of an issue. Same deal with nightblades, your biting jabs can keep them out of cloak, so just keep laying the pressure on and ccing every chance you get. It can be pretty easy to get a stam check against these classes with bleeds and constant CC pressure.
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y'all talk and give advices for against average people. I kill average people pretty easy. I talk here about perfectly executed situations, about counterplay and strategy on paper. When Z0$ developed the classes i really can't imagine what counterplay they had in mind.
-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube0 -
Sky_WK✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Are you low CP? I don't understand how you're having issues getting burst down when you've got 29k health.
He is running medium with bone pirate and ravager with dual wield : He has bad gear with bad skills with bad weapons with low exeperience, he can be easely bursted because of everything adds-up.
The build I linked has 38k resistance with 31k stam, 27.5k HP and 4.5k weapon damage self fully buffed and you can add on top of it lingering + speed pot + S&B block mitigation.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=32039
Lol wtf? Ravager and medium bone pirate is awesome on a stamplar. He just needs to remember not to stand in one place. Your build is great as well, but it's not like someone is going to sneeze on you and kill you in medium armor. Sure he's bad but BP/Ravager DW is BiS for Stamplar as far as I'm concerned.i do not read replies. still playing stamdk for some reason.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JXNwarrior wrote: »JXNwarrior wrote: »@Sergykid I think your current setup is fine as it's what I run on my orc stamplar. Some things to remember: gold nirnhoned main hand on your dual wield will give you 400+ more weapon damage, your max stam seems ultra low for that build and since Power of the Light scales off max stam you're gimping yourself a bit. Put all attributes in stam and run tri-stat glyphs so you hit about 23-24k health and 38kish stamina. Sustaining is harder for you I think because your max stam is low, but I would rather oversustain than undersustain so you can stay 2k recovery even with 38k+ max. Try and tweak your CP as well, there are some good Stamplar PvP builds out there to compare to. And Remember that you can cleanse curse and cripple.
Stamplar is harder to use against experience players as they can usually block/shield/dodge at the correct time of your burst combo. MagNB especially are good in duels because they can cloak and have a great burst with the bow proc. if you need more DoT pressure try using one axe on the dual wield, maybe double DoT poisons, and try to adapt to your opponent. If you do the same timed combo 4x and they negate it 4x then switch it up. Same goes for taking damage, try and learn their timing and adapt to it.
everything u say here i do already. Potl may scale off stamina but one's never gon be able to charge it fully. Max stam increase the damage pool it can copy, not the % it copies. How could i increase my stamina? It's 60 points in attributes, even if 64 won't increase it much, from 31k to 31.5k,
go full stamina glyphs on armor, maybe a tri-stat or two if your health is too low. [...] also try for 5 medium and 2 heavy for undaunted passives if you haven't already.
yeah i do that.
if i have 1400 recovery i only do jabs -> heavy attack -> jabs -> heavy attack, and my stamina remain on the same level. If i`m under pressure and i must break free, use vigor, roll out (once), and throw a CC, i`m out of stam.I don't worry about my recovery, because duel wield heavy attacks are quick to get off, allowing me to restore resource without too much effort.
They don't die with what u described. And trap is the thing that make my kills. That minor force, the dot, and forcing them to roll so i use DB is the thing that makes me kills and forces stamina out of mag targets.Rending slashes, power of the light, CC, jabs and a dawnbreaker are enough to kill most targets quickly. [...] So trap is not going to help you, especially since a nightblade and sorc running shields are going to want to stay ranged.
not a chance ... i have magicka for 3 cleanses. The way i`m debuffed i really need all those 3 cleanses, no room for the class gap closer.Even though it costs magicka, the aedric spear gap closer ability is clutch on a stamplar.
a permablock DK won't die from my 3 bleeds with potl up. Even a decent tank won't die from it. Jabs isn't taking out of stealth anyone, tried it.Bleeds are op against shields, as a stamplar this shouldn't be too much of an issue. Same deal with nightblades, your biting jabs can keep them out of cloak, so just keep laying the pressure on and ccing every chance you get. It can be pretty easy to get a stam check against these classes with bleeds and constant CC pressure.
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y'all talk and give advices for against average people. I kill average people pretty easy. I talk here about perfectly executed situations, about counterplay and strategy on paper. When Z0$ developed the classes i really can't imagine what counterplay they had in mind.
If break free is your issue, try running Immovable on your back bar. And if you are running out of stamina, I am not sure what to tell you. I have zero sustain issues and I run two damage sets in heavy armor. And yes, the gap closer costs magicka, run tri-stat food. It will give you a higher magicka pool and provide more opportunities to cleanse. I run around 15K magicka on my build. And if stamina is really an issue, you may be better off switching race. Orc's don't really help you there. I run redgard and have a much higher stamina pool. It may be why you are lacking damage.
On a side note, probably not best to ask for advice and then complain about the advice given. Why would anyone want to help you with that attitude?0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Look OP, if what you're getting at is the fact that stamplar is not the top class well you're right.
If you take someone of equal skill as you, equal armor, etc and they have a stronger class, yeah you're sol unless they make a big mistake0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bleeds are op against shields
No. If they ever are OP, it would be against high resistance builds. The advantage of bleeds is that they ignore physical resistance. Bleeds don't tick "under the ward", they simply damage the shield. Shields have no resistance, they eat the full tooltip damage anyway. So bleeds advantage are nullified.GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Run them out of stamina. CC at the end of their wards length. Constantly pull them out of stealth via AoE. Dodge when Curse is about to explode.
Is curse explosion dodgeable now?
(havent played in a couple months)
Nope, but it's the most likely moment when they will fire frag/ clench/ wrath etc. Their burst window is highly expectable.arkansas_ESO wrote: »Are you low CP? I don't understand how you're having issues getting burst down when you've got 29k health.
He is running medium with bone pirate and ravager with dual wield : He has bad gear with bad skills with bad weapons with low exeperience, he can be easely bursted because of everything adds-up.
The build I linked has 38k resistance with 31k stam, 27.5k HP and 4.5k weapon damage self fully buffed and you can add on top of it lingering + speed pot + S&B block mitigation.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=32039
Lol wtf? Ravager and medium bone pirate is awesome on a stamplar. He just needs to remember not to stand in one place. Your build is great as well, but it's not like someone is going to sneeze on you and kill you in medium armor. Sure he's bad but BP/Ravager DW is BiS for Stamplar as far as I'm concerned.
Issue is that OP probably wears healthy jewlery, which guts his max stam and damage output, if I haven't missed anything in his text. He uses medium armor for the increased dmg/crit/regen but then invest so much into health in a way that isn't really efficient for a defense increase that he'd be better off with running 5 heavy which inherently grants more health, resistance, healing + high burst armor sets and simply invests a bit in regen. If I were OP and be dead set on BPT and Ravagers, I'd either switch to 5h/2m with BPT robust jewels or wait until I can transmog Ravager's jewelry to robust.0 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭
[...] And if stamina is really an issue, you may be better off switching race. Orc's don't really help you there. I run redgard and have a much higher stamina pool. It may be why you are lacking damage.JXNwarrior wrote: »JXNwarrior wrote: »@Sergykid I think your current setup is fine as it's what I run on my orc stamplar. Some things to remember: gold nirnhoned main hand on your dual wield will give you 400+ more weapon damage, your max stam seems ultra low for that build and since Power of the Light scales off max stam you're gimping yourself a bit. Put all attributes in stam and run tri-stat glyphs so you hit about 23-24k health and 38kish stamina. Sustaining is harder for you I think because your max stam is low, but I would rather oversustain than undersustain so you can stay 2k recovery even with 38k+ max. Try and tweak your CP as well, there are some good Stamplar PvP builds out there to compare to. And Remember that you can cleanse curse and cripple.
Stamplar is harder to use against experience players as they can usually block/shield/dodge at the correct time of your burst combo. MagNB especially are good in duels because they can cloak and have a great burst with the bow proc. if you need more DoT pressure try using one axe on the dual wield, maybe double DoT poisons, and try to adapt to your opponent. If you do the same timed combo 4x and they negate it 4x then switch it up. Same goes for taking damage, try and learn their timing and adapt to it.
everything u say here i do already. Potl may scale off stamina but one's never gon be able to charge it fully. Max stam increase the damage pool it can copy, not the % it copies. How could i increase my stamina? It's 60 points in attributes, even if 64 won't increase it much, from 31k to 31.5k,
go full stamina glyphs on armor, maybe a tri-stat or two if your health is too low. [...] also try for 5 medium and 2 heavy for undaunted passives if you haven't already.
yeah i do that.
if i have 1400 recovery i only do jabs -> heavy attack -> jabs -> heavy attack, and my stamina remain on the same level. If i`m under pressure and i must break free, use vigor, roll out (once), and throw a CC, i`m out of stam.I don't worry about my recovery, because duel wield heavy attacks are quick to get off, allowing me to restore resource without too much effort.
They don't die with what u described. And trap is the thing that make my kills. That minor force, the dot, and forcing them to roll so i use DB is the thing that makes me kills and forces stamina out of mag targets.Rending slashes, power of the light, CC, jabs and a dawnbreaker are enough to kill most targets quickly. [...] So trap is not going to help you, especially since a nightblade and sorc running shields are going to want to stay ranged.
not a chance ... i have magicka for 3 cleanses. The way i`m debuffed i really need all those 3 cleanses, no room for the class gap closer.Even though it costs magicka, the aedric spear gap closer ability is clutch on a stamplar.
a permablock DK won't die from my 3 bleeds with potl up. Even a decent tank won't die from it. Jabs isn't taking out of stealth anyone, tried it.Bleeds are op against shields, as a stamplar this shouldn't be too much of an issue. Same deal with nightblades, your biting jabs can keep them out of cloak, so just keep laying the pressure on and ccing every chance you get. It can be pretty easy to get a stam check against these classes with bleeds and constant CC pressure.
--
y'all talk and give advices for against average people. I kill average people pretty easy. I talk here about perfectly executed situations, about counterplay and strategy on paper. When Z0$ developed the classes i really can't imagine what counterplay they had in mind.
On a side note, probably not best to ask for advice and then complain about the advice given. Why would anyone want to help you with that attitude?
sorry, i really don't complain about the advice, all is welcome and read. Thing is i already know all this and i apply it but with no result. I guess my real problem is thatWaffennacht wrote: »Look OP, if what you're getting at is the fact that stamplar is not the top class well you're right.
If you take someone of equal skill as you, equal armor, etc and they have a stronger class, yeah you're sol unless they make a big mistake
yes, i think this is my problem. Even if i play perfectly, 100% cooking by the book, my cake's gon be lower by game's default. But i don't want to reach the conclusion "is game's fault that my class is weaker" which is sadly true.-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube0 -
Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭Against magnb: detect/immovable. No cloak, no fear. Potl up 100%. Use purify to rid of dots (a lot of mnbs use skoria). Position them in front of you. Biting jabs is great but especially the last jab is important to snare and keep the nb under your foot.
Against mag sorcs it's a matter of purifying curse and potentially reflecting frags or overload. Otherwise the pulse and wrath spam will get to you.
I prep against sorcs by potl--> wind up one good heavy attack to knock down one shield and proc bleed -> javelin > crit rush --> dbos (jabs and/or execute).
My Templar build is 2 troll king/2 blood spawn, 5 reactive 5 cowards 2h axe/snb.
2h axe: Crit rush, cleave, jabs, rally, execute, dbos.
Snb: Potl, javelin, vigor, purify, flex (I like resist buff,repentance, but reverb and defensive posture are good too), crescent sweep, spell wall, or heal ult.Terethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
https://m.twitch.tv/amcrenshaw/profile1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Metemsycosis wrote: »Against magnb: detect/immovable. No cloak, no fear. Potl up 100%. Use purify to rid of dots (a lot of mnbs use skoria). Position them in front of you. Biting jabs is great but especially the last jab is important to snare and keep the nb under your foot.
Against mag sorcs it's a matter of purifying curse and potentially reflecting frags or overload. Otherwise the pulse and wrath spam will get to you.
I prep against sorcs by potl--> wind up one good heavy attack to knock down one shield and proc bleed -> javelin > crit rush --> dbos (jabs and/or execute).
My Templar build is 2 troll king/2 blood spawn, 5 reactive 5 cowards 2h axe/snb.
2h axe: Crit rush, cleave, jabs, rally, execute, dbos.
Snb: Potl, javelin, vigor, purify, flex (I like resist buff,repentance, but reverb and defensive posture are good too), crescent sweep, spell wall, or heal ult.
That's a tanky af build right there0 -
Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »Against magnb: detect/immovable. No cloak, no fear. Potl up 100%. Use purify to rid of dots (a lot of mnbs use skoria). Position them in front of you. Biting jabs is great but especially the last jab is important to snare and keep the nb under your foot.
Against mag sorcs it's a matter of purifying curse and potentially reflecting frags or overload. Otherwise the pulse and wrath spam will get to you.
I prep against sorcs by potl--> wind up one good heavy attack to knock down one shield and proc bleed -> javelin > crit rush --> dbos (jabs and/or execute).
My Templar build is 2 troll king/2 blood spawn, 5 reactive 5 cowards 2h axe/snb.
2h axe: Crit rush, cleave, jabs, rally, execute, dbos.
Snb: Potl, javelin, vigor, purify, flex (I like resist buff,repentance, but reverb and defensive posture are good too), crescent sweep, spell wall, or heal ult.
That's a tanky af build right there
Except stambladesTerethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
https://m.twitch.tv/amcrenshaw/profile0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭Metemsycosis wrote: »Against magnb: detect/immovable. No cloak, no fear. Potl up 100%. Use purify to rid of dots (a lot of mnbs use skoria). Position them in front of you. Biting jabs is great but especially the last jab is important to snare and keep the nb under your foot.
Against mag sorcs it's a matter of purifying curse and potentially reflecting frags or overload. Otherwise the pulse and wrath spam will get to you.
I prep against sorcs by potl--> wind up one good heavy attack to knock down one shield and proc bleed -> javelin > crit rush --> dbos (jabs and/or execute).
My Templar build is 2 troll king/2 blood spawn, 5 reactive 5 cowards 2h axe/snb.
2h axe: Crit rush, cleave, jabs, rally, execute, dbos.
Snb: Potl, javelin, vigor, purify, flex (I like resist buff,repentance, but reverb and defensive posture are good too), crescent sweep, spell wall, or heal ult.
What’s your weapon damage and sustain?
0 -
Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »Against magnb: detect/immovable. No cloak, no fear. Potl up 100%. Use purify to rid of dots (a lot of mnbs use skoria). Position them in front of you. Biting jabs is great but especially the last jab is important to snare and keep the nb under your foot.
Against mag sorcs it's a matter of purifying curse and potentially reflecting frags or overload. Otherwise the pulse and wrath spam will get to you.
I prep against sorcs by potl--> wind up one good heavy attack to knock down one shield and proc bleed -> javelin > crit rush --> dbos (jabs and/or execute).
My Templar build is 2 troll king/2 blood spawn, 5 reactive 5 cowards 2h axe/snb.
2h axe: Crit rush, cleave, jabs, rally, execute, dbos.
Snb: Potl, javelin, vigor, purify, flex (I like resist buff,repentance, but reverb and defensive posture are good too), crescent sweep, spell wall, or heal ult.
What’s your weapon damage and sustain?
Fully buffed 3k wd (gold 2h, infused berserker on snb). 2600 Stam recovery (I've seen as high as 3200 with Cont Attack buff in CP enabled cyrodiil). redguard, warrior mundus in CP, tower no CP. 1 wd glyph, 1 reduce cost, 1 Regen glyph. Or 2 Regen 1 wd. I chose reduce cost to help with blocking but Regen stacks well with redguard.
ETA: 5-7 impen. (Sometimes 2 wellfitted, for sprinting)
Edited by Metemsycosis on April 3, 2018 11:00PMTerethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
https://m.twitch.tv/amcrenshaw/profile0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭Metemsycosis wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »Against magnb: detect/immovable. No cloak, no fear. Potl up 100%. Use purify to rid of dots (a lot of mnbs use skoria). Position them in front of you. Biting jabs is great but especially the last jab is important to snare and keep the nb under your foot.
Against mag sorcs it's a matter of purifying curse and potentially reflecting frags or overload. Otherwise the pulse and wrath spam will get to you.
I prep against sorcs by potl--> wind up one good heavy attack to knock down one shield and proc bleed -> javelin > crit rush --> dbos (jabs and/or execute).
My Templar build is 2 troll king/2 blood spawn, 5 reactive 5 cowards 2h axe/snb.
2h axe: Crit rush, cleave, jabs, rally, execute, dbos.
Snb: Potl, javelin, vigor, purify, flex (I like resist buff,repentance, but reverb and defensive posture are good too), crescent sweep, spell wall, or heal ult.
What’s your weapon damage and sustain?
Fully buffed 3k wd (gold 2h, infused berserker on snb). 2600 Stam recovery (I've seen as high as 3200 with Cont Attack buff in CP enabled cyrodiil). redguard, warrior mundus in CP, tower no CP. 1 wd glyph, 1 reduce cost, 1 Regen glyph. Or 2 Regen 1 wd. I chose reduce cost to help with blocking but Regen stacks well with redguard.
ETA: 5-7 impen. (Sometimes 2 wellfitted, for sprinting)
Oh okay , that’s not too bad, that’s some high recovery.
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