Run them out of stamina. CC at the end of their wards length. Constantly pull them out of stealth via AoE. Dodge when Curse is about to explode.

It sounds like you are looking for a formula of some kind. There isn't one.

At the end of the day, you have got to control the initiative, force your opponent to react to your moves rather than vice-versa, and eventually burst them down. There is no "perfect" way to control the initiative and make your opponent dance to your tune, that is a product of practice, experience, and a willingness to look in the mirror and admit "other people manage to kill/sorcs and NBs, I can too id I try different approaches.

Yes, mag Sorc/NB shields are strong. You aren't going to burst through them. It's all about timing - and trying to cast mage light to empower an ultimate is very clumsy timing. Mag characters want to cast their shields every 6 seconds but they don't always do this because they get CC'ed, because they get greedy spamming offensive spells, because they lose track of time, because they don;t feel threatened, because their opponent has the initiative, etc. You've got to capitalize on one of these situations. And learning how and when to do that is gained through experience, not memorizing a formula or rotation.

You are telling people not to say L2P or give "unnecessary info," meanwhile you're telling us in the next paragraph that shields are too strong, your build is disadvantage because you can die any moment, and wanting a ZoS explain to you why sorcs and NBs are designed the way they are. This sort of stuff is classic L2P, I'm sorry.

You may be a stamplar, but you're still a templar and that means you are slow and the classes you are struggling against are fast. Farm alchemy mats and use Lingering + Speed pots or use Stampede. Drop Mage Light and use POTL 100% of the time because unpredictable burst is a key way to take the initiative. Your rotation does not include Executioner: you have a one second window before a shieldless and CC'd sorc breaks that CC and puts up a 10K shield. Biting jabs, especially not this patch when its damage is probably bugged by 30% (I know Sweeps are bugged, I'm assuming jabs are a well) is not going to cut it against top players.

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Are you low CP? I don't understand how you're having issues getting burst down when you've got 29k health.

He is running medium with bone pirate and ravager with dual wield : He has bad gear with bad skills with bad weapons with low exeperience, he can be easely bursted because of everything adds-up.

The build I linked has 38k resistance with 31k stam, 27.5k HP and 4.5k weapon damage self fully buffed and you can add on top of it lingering + speed pot + S&B block mitigation.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=32039

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

The build I linked has 38k resistance with 31k stam, 27.5k HP and 4.5k weapon damage self fully buffed and you can add on top of it lingering + speed pot + S&B block mitigation.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=32039

that's impossible. I have 2k stam regen in bone pirate armor with serpent boon and regen rings. And from where is the weapon damage enchant if both weapons are nirnhoned? i supposed the 2h backbar could have it. But this seems way too untrue. Dual wield gives way more damage based on gathering up the damage of 2 weapons. And the passives add a bit to it too.

Sergykid wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

The build I linked has 38k resistance with 31k stam, 27.5k HP and 4.5k weapon damage self fully buffed and you can add on top of it lingering + speed pot + S&B block mitigation.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=32039

that's impossible. I have 2k stam regen in bone pirate armor with serpent boon and regen rings. And from where is the weapon damage enchant if both weapons are nirnhoned? i supposed the 2h backbar could have it. But this seems way too untrue. Dual wield gives way more damage based on gathering up the damage of 2 weapons. And the passives add a bit to it too.

Only the front bar is infused, backbar is Nirn on the sheet.

DW vs SnB , I personally go with either depending on what I want access to. Defile+hard CC from SnB is hard to pass up if not running things to get those effects.

Btw, do you have CP enough for Regen modifiers? I feel that your Stam Regen is low for what you have picked. Regen rings, serpent and BP? Are you running Dubious? (Or a drink for BP?)

How much cps have you ? You should be at far far highter.

It's an add-on, I don't know the name of it.

Sergykid wrote: »

Hi, i am looking for help towards defeating a magicka NB or sorc. If you are a player that wants to discuss about nerfing them, or giving me "L2P", or tell a story about your encounters, or any other unnecessary info towards a defeating tactic, then you can refrain from replying here. We talk here about skill capped players, playstyle on paper, executed perfectly by both sides.

i have good gear and rotation, but anyway before asking what and how i use, here is everything:

orc stamplar medium armor bone pirate, blood spawn, ravaging jewel and weapon dual wield 2h backbar. Rotation: blood craze, major brutality from rally, major ward from restoring focus, major evasion from shuffle, are up all the time. I place the trap and hit with jabs, when he steps in trap i use DB ult with empower when he rolls out and continue with jabs. Javelin on occasion. Vigor when needed or always up while hp taken. Cleanse when needed but keeping magicka for one when i get incaped or cursed. Normally i use potl (backlash / the thing that copies damage and deals it when duration finish), but magelight is necessary, also good for empower ult. I have 29k hp, 31k stamina, dubious camoran throne drink and serpent boon.

how could i defeat a target that uses those damned absorb shields? shield breaker is not a solution, i would lose much from other sets. Oblivion damage is not enough. They put up a 10k+ absorb shield, and i can't have 10k dps in Cryodill on a moving target.

so theoretically killing a mag build with absorb shield is impossible even if the target stands still. Don't come with the "he will run out of magicka" like yes i can die any second and he has to remain without magicka first. He won't remain without magicka, also won't run out of stamina too, because he breaks free at every CC cooldown.

and so a fight can take on forever. Problem is i can die any moment from the combo burst (incap + relentless / implosion + frags), but in those hundred cases i bring mag users to 5% hp they just absorb shield up and back full hp.

i would also like to know from a ZOS representative, or a developer, or a staff member, or whatever, when they created spells like cloak without limits, or absorb shields ridiculously high (they don't have to be THAT high), what counterplay they had in mind?

below is a small comparison between defenses and damage output:

my vigor heals 15k in best scenarios (everything up), in Cryodill that's 7.5k, add some defile (example: from a NB) and it's @5k. So i heal 5k over 5 seconds, while they have 10k per second. Don't say "you roll" well so do they out of the trap. Rally in best scenarios (everything up and crit) heals for 10k undefiled, and that's every 30 seconds. I can do 20k dps in pvp build on target skeleton, so in Cryodill that will be 10k dps, but on a moving target will be far less. Meanwhile, they are ranged with same dps. I don't have their damage mitigation, but they have my damage.

there may be some space for improvement, that's what i ask here, what could i do or what could i improve in order to be able to defeat this kind of players.

Stamnb - stamplar - magsorc main here. Countering magnb - stamnb 101. Magsorc you need to catch off guard when their shields drop, often times when they are over-extending on you and not keeping up their shields properly. This post is for everyone of every class, and not entirely just to OP.

Step 1.) You should play the classes that are giving you issue.

For example you should play nb and sorc for some time to learn their weakness first hand, then you can apply what you learn to other classes.

Step 2.) Your stamplar build

You're attempting to play stamplar in a way that no longer works. Your build needs adjustment, it is really outdated. You need to run more defensive sets in medium armor, or go all damage. Otherwise any average nb or magsorc is going to rip you to shreds in just bone pirate, no matter what your sustain looks like. If you aren't going to run a defensive setup, you need to have such high damage output such that you can end fights in one ult rotation like below, to avoid getting into a sustained fight where you have little defense and sustain capability vs the kinds of damage you take in medium.

High damage no sustain or defense stamplar example
Or
You need to preemptively vigor, if you wait until you need it you will die.

For a defensive approach I suggest looking at sets like fortified brass, pariah or impregnable for medium armor stamplar to compliment blood spawn.

I also wouldn't waste my time with serpent on most stamplar buillds. Stamplar can operate on lower levels of sustain, adding too much will nerf your damage too much.

You definitely should use rending slashes over blood craze for the snare, blood craze is fine but the snare enables you to stay on top of targets (especially a magnb cloaking away from you). Since AoE is the number on counter to nb and stamplar has arguably the best AoE capability between jabs and ult, a snared magnb in cloak will be easy to pull out with jabs.

You definitely want power of the light over magelight, apply it to a nb and it will pull the nb out of cloak on a delay. You can also load damage into it for a sneaky burst, while you are countering cloak.

Step 3.) Detect pot. This is by far and large the most useful item for any class to carry, you can make a variety of detect pots (mostly beneficial to magicka players, but some useful buffs for stamina). You use these to supplement your AoE and delayed damage effects, and to just plain see the nb. Anyone saying these potions are useless is not playing ESO properly. I try and keep them on all my toons, so I can end nb fights faster than without them.

You can use these to catch a nb off guard whem they cloak to heal, you can use them to supplement the 100-0 burst strat. They are very useful for sustained fights.

Video examples of fighting nbs with and without detect pots. Most clips will be of magsorc, since I played it most the last couple of patches. You don't need detect pots to fight a nb, but they are very useful especially if the nb is either really poorly played or really good.
Hope this helps. Stamplar is designed very effectively around fighting stamnb, and any class can supplement their effectiveness with a detect pot. Make friends with a good nb and sorc and ask to duel them a bunch while modifying your old build.

Sergykid wrote: »

the gifs are pretty small and i don't know the guy's build from there. And what sets to use instead then? If i drop bone pirate i`ll have under 2k stam regen and i will struggle to have stam to hit anything all the time.

From what i understand there is just the simple theory to ult when potl hits, but killing with that never happens. Every time i do it i get them to 5% hp and they put up the absorb shield or cloak away and done.

Aedaryl wrote: »

How much cps have you ? You should be at far far highter.

It's an add-on, I don't know the name of it.

i`m capped CP

I only run 1400 regen on both bars for my stamplar. I don't see a reason to play overly high sustain at the moment for stamplar, because you'll never benefit from it like say a stamnb. Add speed + lingering health, or immovable + speed pots for general play, and the defense you have combined with heavy attacks will help you sustain.

The below is just a generalization, or a starting point for medium armor stamplar. Either of the below will be far more beneficial to you, than the build you described in your OP. There are a lot of good stamplars out there like Rhage and Kiri you can check out, if you want to check your ideas against theirs.

Option 1. Defense + offense

Option 2. Very high offense .

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Run them out of stamina. CC at the end of their wards length. Constantly pull them out of stealth via AoE. Dodge when Curse is about to explode.

Yup that's about it!

Sergykid wrote: »

don't know how u guys can play with under 2k regen. I barely manage to do anything with 2k. And if i drop bone pirate and serpent mundus, i`ll have under 1400.

i don't like Clever alchemist. Having the bonus once every 30 seconds is too low. With ravaging set i can have it up all the time, because i create a proc trigger 4 times per second.

and @OdinForge what u described there to combine 3/4 are crafted sets which i can't (yet) wear two at once. So what you are saying, is that i must wear automaton. But since i am only burst, ravaging has much more weapon damage.

using agility set doesn't sound good to me, i am wasting a set slot, or two in case of dual wielding.

It's possible to play under 2K regen when you aren't spamming roll dodge 24/7 in response to taking massive damage in medium armor without any defensive sets on. Which you can achieve by running a defensive set or doing massive damage to your target to put them on the defensive.

Trust me when I say that both of the build styles I described will net you more killing potential than ravager, without needing as much sustain.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Run them out of stamina. CC at the end of their wards length. Constantly pull them out of stealth via AoE. Dodge when Curse is about to explode.

Is curse explosion dodgeable now? (havent played in a couple months)

@Sergykid I think your current setup is fine as it's what I run on my orc stamplar. Some things to remember: gold nirnhoned main hand on your dual wield will give you 400+ more weapon damage, your max stam seems ultra low for that build and since Power of the Light scales off max stam you're gimping yourself a bit. Put all attributes in stam and run tri-stat glyphs so you hit about 23-24k health and 38kish stamina. Sustaining is harder for you I think because your max stam is low, but I would rather oversustain than undersustain so you can stay 2k recovery even with 38k+ max. Try and tweak your CP as well, there are some good Stamplar PvP builds out there to compare to. And Remember that you can cleanse curse and cripple.

Stamplar is harder to use against experience players as they can usually block/shield/dodge at the correct time of your burst combo. MagNB especially are good in duels because they can cloak and have a great burst with the bow proc. if you need more DoT pressure try using one axe on the dual wield, maybe double DoT poisons, and try to adapt to your opponent. If you do the same timed combo 4x and they negate it 4x then switch it up. Same goes for taking damage, try and learn their timing and adapt to it.

It is mostly about finding a gear setup you're comfortable with and learning the limitations of the build so you can adapt to situations.

Good luck

JXNwarrior wrote: »

@Sergykid I think your current setup is fine as it's what I run on my orc stamplar. Some things to remember: gold nirnhoned main hand on your dual wield will give you 400+ more weapon damage, your max stam seems ultra low for that build and since Power of the Light scales off max stam you're gimping yourself a bit. Put all attributes in stam and run tri-stat glyphs so you hit about 23-24k health and 38kish stamina. Sustaining is harder for you I think because your max stam is low, but I would rather oversustain than undersustain so you can stay 2k recovery even with 38k+ max. Try and tweak your CP as well, there are some good Stamplar PvP builds out there to compare to. And Remember that you can cleanse curse and cripple.

Stamplar is harder to use against experience players as they can usually block/shield/dodge at the correct time of your burst combo. MagNB especially are good in duels because they can cloak and have a great burst with the bow proc. if you need more DoT pressure try using one axe on the dual wield, maybe double DoT poisons, and try to adapt to your opponent. If you do the same timed combo 4x and they negate it 4x then switch it up. Same goes for taking damage, try and learn their timing and adapt to it.

everything u say here i do already. Potl may scale off stamina but one's never gon be able to charge it fully. Max stam increase the damage pool it can copy, not the % it copies. How could i increase my stamina? It's 60 points in attributes, even if 64 won't increase it much, from 31k to 31.5k,

I run a similar weapon setup on my Stamplar, but I run duel wield front, sword and shield back. I run 5 Hundings heavy, 2 krags, and 5 spriggans. I personally like the dual wield from bar because it adds to my damage. And the sword and shield back bar allows me to turtle up when necessary. I don't worry about my recovery, because duel wield heavy attacks are quick to get off, allowing me to restore resource without too much effort.

The trick with a stamplar against shields is to stack damage. Rending slashes, power of the light, CC, jabs and a dawnbreaker are enough to kill most targets quickly. You are not looking for 10K DPS, you are looking for 15-20K damage in 4-5 seconds. PVP requires a huge difference in the way you treat damage. AOE's aren't necessary. So trap is not going to help you, especially since a nightblade and sorc running shields are going to want to stay ranged.

Even though it costs magicka, the aedric spear gap closer ability is clutch on a stamplar. Keeps you on top of an opponent keeping up pressure. And Extended Ritual is a must. You can remove a ton of a Sorc and a magblade's damage potential by using Extended Ritual when necessary.