Can I Do Viable DPS Without Stacking An Obscenely Large Amount Of Buffs, Debuffs, and DOTs?

FrancisCrawford · March 2018

Stamblade? That's harder than most classes to succeed with. I'd say:

Do the meta thing of having one bar being bow while the other bar is your preferred melee option (and dual wield is a good choice).
Use your bow bar for Endless Hail, Poison Injection and long-running buffs. Switch to it every 10 seconds or so.
Don't worry about Grim Focus procs; if you don't worry about those the class suddenly becomes a lot easier to play. Run it for the great Minor Berserk buff unless you're in a solid group where the healer uses Combat Prayer and thus makes your personal Minor Berserk buff almost useless.
Do use Leeching Strikes. It's nice and simple and hassle-reducing.
Use a meta set of choices on your dual-wield bar, for whatever trade-off of pure damage and survival you think is best for you.

Sparr0w · March 2018

StamBlade 2H. MagBlade Lightning Staff.

1 Buff, 1 AoE, 1 Spammable, 1 Heal/Shield, 1 Execute. LA/HA weave depending on amount of enemies & available resources. Use potions to compensate for some missing buffs as these are a lot easier to maintain & don't need a bar swap.

Both have a really easy 1 bar rotation for 20k+ dps (10-15k is the baseline you should be pushing for anything non-vet). I'd say MagBlade is less dps but easier survivability, StamBlade more dps but less survivability.

You can then have buffs/heals/whatever on your back bar & just cast before a fight (overland & normal content doesn't last too long) or when needed (someones dying, taunt/vigor). The rotations are more for those 10mil+ enemies that take many minutes to take down, dropping one buff in a one minute fight won't effect you much.

As a NightBlade you also get a lot of buffs via class passives, e.g. Minor Savagery, more crit & crit dmg, Major Fracture, Minor Vitality, Major Resolve, Major Ward etc... & your heal gives you Major Brutality and/or Major Sorcery (Rally 2H/Sap Siphoning)

EDIT: Typo

Ebonslayer21 · March 2018

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Stamblade? That's harder than most classes to succeed with. I'd say:
Use your bow bar for Endless Hail, Poison Injection and long-running buffs. Switch to it every 10 seconds or so.

This is actually one of the things I hate about DOTs. The fact I'm forced to switch to my second bar every few seconds irritates me to no end.

FakeFox · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

This might be the dumbest thing I have ever read. It's one thing to suggest that the meta rotation is not for everyone, because it's certainly not. It's quite another to actually suggest that combining DOTS and buffs will actually cause you to do less DPS.

I dont think you have the faintest idea of how a damage rotation works in this game. 95% of skills can be cast on a 1 second global cooldown. Snipe might hit for more than caltrops in that instant, but one caltrops does more total damage than one snipe if you let it run its course. That is the whole point of a damage rotation. You can only cast one thing a second. Every second, you should cast the skill that will give you the most benefit. The only time the answer is a spam skill, is when all your other buffs or DOTs are ticking. Snipe is actually an exception to this rule because it actually takes longer than 1 second to cast. So actually, not only does something like caltrops do more damage, it can be cast faster than snipe, which makes a snipe spam one of the worst type of spam rotations.

I am 100% not surprised you cap out at 10k DPS, which is certainly not enough for the vast majority of vet content. Now you can clear most normal content with just about any build you can think of, but please dont preach about how that is a good thing and people that try to actually complete real content are certifiably insane.

Actually you missed most of my points and then cherry picked your arguments, so..... strawman? In relation to the topic, no you dont need all of that to do viable DPS. I used a trash toon( the one that you pulled the 10k number from) that isnt complete, only uses a bow, with bad racials, has less than 300 CP, has horrible penetration( and his crit isnt good either), using only trash pots( you know the ones that drop as loot) no poisons( disease enchant) and only use two abilities and i can still do 10k on a dummy.<<THAT was the point. Imagine if i actually built him for combat. And in dungeons he can pull 15-25k single target depending on the boss, group makeup etc. On top of that i have a magsorc im working on who is still low level who can, ALSO using two abilities( three if you count a pet) can hit 8-9k on a dummy ( im not writing it all again).

So in conclusion it is possible to do viable DPS without a lot of effort. Will you win ESO? no probably not. But the OP didnt ask to be on top of leaderboards, or even in the top 10%. The OP asked for viable DPS. Now to an elitist meta player that might mean 30-35k dps. But to normal folks. 15k-25k is just fine.

FakeFox wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

You are very much off with your math here.
1. If you spend one second on snipe you do 12k damage. If you spend one second on caltrops you do 13x 1.9k, so 24.7k damage. Therefore you effectively do twice the damage for this second. If a DOT does more damage over it's duration then you spamable, it is more effective.
2. Synergies do not use a global cooldown, therefore they are independent from your rotation.

You are right, that doing a rotation in actual fight is harder then on a dummy, however this is what you train for. To be able to use your rotation while playing all those mechanics. And no you don't pull more then players with proper rotations. I think you completely lack a sense of scale here. While you do 10k DPS, good players do 40k on a dummy and even more in actual fights. Those rotations you are talking about are made for actual dungeons and trails and pulling them off is no problem what so ever.
If this playstyle is as ineffective as you say, why is everyone on top of the leaderboards using it then? Don't you think those players would have changed it if it would be ineffective?

I know in theory it works that way, but it doesnt work that way when put to practice. Im not going to go into it because we arent going to agree. Ive been playing MMOs a long time and ive done end game in every one of them. And peoples obsession with dps here is just ridiculous. I guess thats what happens when your endgame never moves and your gear never progresses, people have to find something new to obsess about.

Anyway i thought i would humor you, so i only use one bar and only a bow on the character in question. So i spent about an hour parsing a dummy. I did my simple two ability usual, and then i did multiple parses using a slightly more complex rotation that consisted of caltrops, endless hail, injection, snipe( to keep minor fracture active as much as possible but it was the lowest priority of the abilities) with LA woven in and HA when i could to help with stam. I also burned a lot of trash pots in the more complex rotation( which i dont in a simple rotation). I did 3 simple rotations and maybe about 15 or so of the more complex ones.

In all of my parses with the more complex rotation i had 85%-100% uptime on injection, hail, and caltrops and 50%-75% on minor fracture. In my simple parses i had 90% plus uptime on inject and fracture. Using my worst simple parse and my best complex parse the difference is about 900 dps in favor of the simple parse. Best parse to best parse is a bit over 2k dps.

So while in theory, all looks great and awesome with complex rotations, in tested scenarios complex rotations fall short every time. I also have far better sustain with two ability parses. Sustain on the complex rotation is much harder and requires a lot more heavy attacks to keep everything running.

So as far as i am concerned, simpler is better. I already knew this as its been that way in every game ive played and ive done end game content just fine and consistently been in the top quarter of raid group dps in the games ive raided in. More complex may work for some people but it never has worked for me nor have i ever needed complex rotations. Furthermore, ive played with many many many people like me that could conquer content just fine without meta builds, and complex rotations.

Its just not necessary AFAIC. Some people need that complexity in their life, im not one of them.

It's fine that it works best for you, that's not my problem. But you are turning your own opinion into a fact here. That you can't handle it doesn't mean that it is bad.
Sure, a complex rotation isn't necessary if you are doing normal dungeons. But if you go into the games hardest content it is absolutely essential.

VaranisArano · March 2018

Viable for what?

As a damage dealer, 10-15k DPS is viable for overland questing, world bosses, public pigeons, normal dungeons, and easier vet dungeons.

Anything harder than that, you are getting carried by the members of your group who do more damage. You can do the content, assuming group DPS is high enough to pass DPS checks like VCOA2, but you aren't doing a great job as a damage dealer at that level of difficulty.

Mind you, lots of groupfinder DDs sit in the 10-15k range, even for vet dungeons, so you aren't alone. But if you want to be good at damage dealing in harder content, you've got to be hitting above the 10-15k mark.

Septimus_Magna · March 2018

Ebonslayer21 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Stamblade? That's harder than most classes to succeed with. I'd say:
Use your bow bar for Endless Hail, Poison Injection and long-running buffs. Switch to it every 10 seconds or so.

This is actually one of the things I hate about DOTs. The fact I'm forced to switch to my second bar every few seconds irritates me to no end.

All stam classes get a lot of dps from Endless Hail, Poison Injection and Razor Caltrops, if you dont use those skill it will be harder to pull decent numbers. As a stamina NB you'd normally get a big dmg boost from Relentless Focus procs besides the 8% extra dmg from the minor berserk buff.

My advice would be to start off with at least Endless Hail and Poison Injection on the bow bar.
Use Relentless Focus on your front bar, mainly for the minor berserk buff.

Focus on weaving Surprise Attack with weapon attacks, if you manage to get a Relentless proc you can fire it off for free dmg.

You'll eventually get use to swapping to your back bar every 10 seconds.
At that point you can add other DoTs and expand your rotation.

Anotherone773 · March 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

It's fine that it works best for you, that's not my problem. But you are turning your own opinion into a fact here. That you can't handle it doesn't mean that it is bad.
Sure, a complex rotation isn't necessary if you are doing normal dungeons. But if you go into the games hardest content it is absolutely essential.

No not my opinion. Facts are based on observations and data. In my observations in a very long history of MMO gaming, theorycrafting and meta are garbage. They dont factor in a bunch of components and in many games dummy parsing and theorycrafting wont get you much more than an lol.

The meta players in this game seem to to think theorycrafting is the bible though. I mean its to be expected, they need to justify having a complex rotation and having to obtain high dps numbers on everything( that they cherry pick). The difference is in other games people call them on their nonsense BS. But this game has a lot of casuals that are more interested in achieves and questing than endgame content. Not to mention a large population of people who never played an mmo.

But i have the experience to call BS on theorycrafting and meta. You dont need stupid high dummy parses to do endgame content, you just need to be competent unless ZOS really really screwed up the endgame .

As i said when i heal dungeons, the headaches are always those meta players, that think they are god because they parsed 35k on a dummy. They constantly need attention and they arent near as good as they think they are. In fact they are a huge pain in the ass.

Its why i dont play with elitists and meta players, they are a legend in their own mind. They spend all their time using leaderboards, and combat analysis to convince themselves of how awesome they are. They then tell everyone else " you need to be as awesome as me to do this content" . And then i take a group of casuals, who dont even know their is a leaderboard, through the same content and we do it just fine and have a blast.

It boils down to a small portion of players saying" if you dont play like me, your not good enough to do content" and pretty much everyone else ignoring them.

But all of this is way off track. The OP asked if they can do viable dps without a bunch of nonsense and the correct answer is yes.

Elitists and meta players can play their way, im fine with that. If you want to OCD over stats and leaderboards, fine. But they need to stop telling everyone that the way they play the game is the only way to play the game and complete content, because its not. Its just the only way they can complete content.

Katahdin · March 2018

Try completing vet Falkreth with anything less than 25-30 K per dps (50-60K group dps).

Good Luck

FakeFox · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

It's fine that it works best for you, that's not my problem. But you are turning your own opinion into a fact here. That you can't handle it doesn't mean that it is bad.
Sure, a complex rotation isn't necessary if you are doing normal dungeons. But if you go into the games hardest content it is absolutely essential.

No not my opinion. Facts are based on observations and data. In my observations in a very long history of MMO gaming, theorycrafting and meta are garbage. They dont factor in a bunch of components and in many games dummy parsing and theorycrafting wont get you much more than an lol.

The meta players in this game seem to to think theorycrafting is the bible though. I mean its to be expected, they need to justify having a complex rotation and having to obtain high dps numbers on everything( that they cherry pick). The difference is in other games people call them on their nonsense BS. But this game has a lot of casuals that are more interested in achieves and questing than endgame content. Not to mention a large population of people who never played an mmo.

But i have the experience to call BS on theorycrafting and meta. You dont need stupid high dummy parses to do endgame content, you just need to be competent unless ZOS really really screwed up the endgame .

As i said when i heal dungeons, the headaches are always those meta players, that think they are god because they parsed 35k on a dummy. They constantly need attention and they arent near as good as they think they are. In fact they are a huge pain in the ass.

Its why i dont play with elitists and meta players, they are a legend in their own mind. They spend all their time using leaderboards, and combat analysis to convince themselves of how awesome they are. They then tell everyone else " you need to be as awesome as me to do this content" . And then i take a group of casuals, who dont even know their is a leaderboard, through the same content and we do it just fine and have a blast.

It boils down to a small portion of players saying" if you dont play like me, your not good enough to do content" and pretty much everyone else ignoring them.

But all of this is way off track. The OP asked if they can do viable dps without a bunch of nonsense and the correct answer is yes.

Elitists and meta players can play their way, im fine with that. If you want to OCD over stats and leaderboards, fine. But they need to stop telling everyone that the way they play the game is the only way to play the game and complete content, because its not. Its just the only way they can complete content.

Observation in other games, great.

Koensol · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

1/10

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2018

@Anotherone773

Ill keep this as simple as I possibly can. If you are comparing a simple 2 skill spam rotation to a more complex rotation with all the usual DOTs for a stamina player (hail, PI, caltrops, etc.) and you dont see a noticeable difference on a dummy, you simply arent executing the more robust rotation at an acceptable level. In other words, it's a L2P issue. You might have a decade worth of experience in MMOs, but the combat in this game is rather unique. Skill matters in ESO for DPS. I also dont buy that your 10k dummy parses translate to 25k single target in a dungeon.

I will certainly concede that in as a general rule, a well executed simple rotation will beat a poorly executed complex rotation, in fact, I say it all the time. You should only try to perform a rotation in actual content that you can execute consistently. The ceiling is going to be different for everyone. Some people can juggle more things than others while respecting game mechanics. The meta is certainly not for everyone, but it is absolutely a good place to start. A simplified meta rotation is the answer for the vast majority of the player base looking to do good DPS.

Another thing I am going to point out is that to most "end-game" pve players, leader boards actually do matter. Leaderboards scores are based on 2 things, Time and Deaths. Time is directly correlated to DPS, which is why most end game players are looking to maximize their damage the best they can. For the lowest skilled players among us, that very well may be a 1-2 skill rotation, but those players wont make leaderboards, and will certainly not be able to clear all content. Maybe that's fine for some people, but I usually assume that those who come to the forums looking for advice are actually trying to improve their damage. In which case, they should probably steer clear of your advice.

10k DPS on a dummy is just not good. It means you have a fundamental problem with your build, rotation, or both. And for the record, there are miles between that statement and saying "pull 40k on a mageblade or GTFO." I know meta is not for everyone, but activaly encouraging 1-2 skill spam rotations on the forums and claiming they work just as well will result in pushback from most of us.

hedna123b14_ESO · March 2018

My boy Lenova got you covered;)

https://youtu.be/52vERYwowd8

hedna123b14_ESO · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

I just want you to know that I am in 10 discords and I shared your post in each discords meme channel. It's currently the hottest meme of the year:) I'm so grateful! I'm gonna nominate you for a Darwin award:)

Azicah · March 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

I just want you to know that I am in 10 discords and I shared your post in each discords meme channel. It's currently the hottest meme of the year:) I'm so grateful! I'm gonna nominate you for a Darwin award:)

LMAO

Horowonnoe · March 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

I just want you to know that I am in 10 discords and I shared your post in each discords meme channel. It's currently the hottest meme of the year:) I'm so grateful! I'm gonna nominate you for a Darwin award:)

xD

hedna123b14_ESO · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

This might be the dumbest thing I have ever read. It's one thing to suggest that the meta rotation is not for everyone, because it's certainly not. It's quite another to actually suggest that combining DOTS and buffs will actually cause you to do less DPS.

I dont think you have the faintest idea of how a damage rotation works in this game. 95% of skills can be cast on a 1 second global cooldown. Snipe might hit for more than caltrops in that instant, but one caltrops does more total damage than one snipe if you let it run its course. That is the whole point of a damage rotation. You can only cast one thing a second. Every second, you should cast the skill that will give you the most benefit. The only time the answer is a spam skill, is when all your other buffs or DOTs are ticking. Snipe is actually an exception to this rule because it actually takes longer than 1 second to cast. So actually, not only does something like caltrops do more damage, it can be cast faster than snipe, which makes a snipe spam one of the worst type of spam rotations.

I am 100% not surprised you cap out at 10k DPS, which is certainly not enough for the vast majority of vet content. Now you can clear most normal content with just about any build you can think of, but please dont preach about how that is a good thing and people that try to actually complete real content are certifiably insane.

Actually you missed most of my points and then cherry picked your arguments, so..... strawman? In relation to the topic, no you dont need all of that to do viable DPS. I used a trash toon( the one that you pulled the 10k number from) that isnt complete, only uses a bow, with bad racials, has less than 300 CP, has horrible penetration( and his crit isnt good either), using only trash pots( you know the ones that drop as loot) no poisons( disease enchant) and only use two abilities and i can still do 10k on a dummy.<<THAT was the point. Imagine if i actually built him for combat. And in dungeons he can pull 15-25k single target depending on the boss, group makeup etc. On top of that i have a magsorc im working on who is still low level who can, ALSO using two abilities( three if you count a pet) can hit 8-9k on a dummy ( im not writing it all again).

So in conclusion it is possible to do viable DPS without a lot of effort. Will you win ESO? no probably not. But the OP didnt ask to be on top of leaderboards, or even in the top 10%. The OP asked for viable DPS. Now to an elitist meta player that might mean 30-35k dps. But to normal folks. 15k-25k is just fine.

FakeFox wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

You are very much off with your math here.
1. If you spend one second on snipe you do 12k damage. If you spend one second on caltrops you do 13x 1.9k, so 24.7k damage. Therefore you effectively do twice the damage for this second. If a DOT does more damage over it's duration then you spamable, it is more effective.
2. Synergies do not use a global cooldown, therefore they are independent from your rotation.

You are right, that doing a rotation in actual fight is harder then on a dummy, however this is what you train for. To be able to use your rotation while playing all those mechanics. And no you don't pull more then players with proper rotations. I think you completely lack a sense of scale here. While you do 10k DPS, good players do 40k on a dummy and even more in actual fights. Those rotations you are talking about are made for actual dungeons and trails and pulling them off is no problem what so ever.
If this playstyle is as ineffective as you say, why is everyone on top of the leaderboards using it then? Don't you think those players would have changed it if it would be ineffective?

I know in theory it works that way, but it doesnt work that way when put to practice. Im not going to go into it because we arent going to agree. Ive been playing MMOs a long time and ive done end game in every one of them. And peoples obsession with dps here is just ridiculous. I guess thats what happens when your endgame never moves and your gear never progresses, people have to find something new to obsess about.

Anyway i thought i would humor you, so i only use one bar and only a bow on the character in question. So i spent about an hour parsing a dummy. I did my simple two ability usual, and then i did multiple parses using a slightly more complex rotation that consisted of caltrops, endless hail, injection, snipe( to keep minor fracture active as much as possible but it was the lowest priority of the abilities) with LA woven in and HA when i could to help with stam. I also burned a lot of trash pots in the more complex rotation( which i dont in a simple rotation). I did 3 simple rotations and maybe about 15 or so of the more complex ones.

In all of my parses with the more complex rotation i had 85%-100% uptime on injection, hail, and caltrops and 50%-75% on minor fracture. In my simple parses i had 90% plus uptime on inject and fracture. Using my worst simple parse and my best complex parse the difference is about 900 dps in favor of the simple parse. Best parse to best parse is a bit over 2k dps.

So while in theory, all looks great and awesome with complex rotations, in tested scenarios complex rotations fall short every time. I also have far better sustain with two ability parses. Sustain on the complex rotation is much harder and requires a lot more heavy attacks to keep everything running.

So as far as i am concerned, simpler is better. I already knew this as its been that way in every game ive played and ive done end game content just fine and consistently been in the top quarter of raid group dps in the games ive raided in. More complex may work for some people but it never has worked for me nor have i ever needed complex rotations. Furthermore, ive played with many many many people like me that could conquer content just fine without meta builds, and complex rotations.

Its just not necessary AFAIC. Some people need that complexity in their life, im not one of them.

I think the main issue here is that you think because you dont know how to do something, it must be bad. You are aware that to get the top spot on the leaderboards you need the fastest run with no deaths? Plenty of people can do that. You can say that it's not for you. You can say that you can't do it. You can say that you would rather not participate. What you can't say is that its unrealistic.

hedna123b14_ESO · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

It's fine that it works best for you, that's not my problem. But you are turning your own opinion into a fact here. That you can't handle it doesn't mean that it is bad.
Sure, a complex rotation isn't necessary if you are doing normal dungeons. But if you go into the games hardest content it is absolutely essential.

No not my opinion. Facts are based on observations and data. In my observations in a very long history of MMO gaming, theorycrafting and meta are garbage. They dont factor in a bunch of components and in many games dummy parsing and theorycrafting wont get you much more than an lol.

The meta players in this game seem to to think theorycrafting is the bible though. I mean its to be expected, they need to justify having a complex rotation and having to obtain high dps numbers on everything( that they cherry pick). The difference is in other games people call them on their nonsense BS. But this game has a lot of casuals that are more interested in achieves and questing than endgame content. Not to mention a large population of people who never played an mmo.

But i have the experience to call BS on theorycrafting and meta. You dont need stupid high dummy parses to do endgame content, you just need to be competent unless ZOS really really screwed up the endgame .

As i said when i heal dungeons, the headaches are always those meta players, that think they are god because they parsed 35k on a dummy. They constantly need attention and they arent near as good as they think they are. In fact they are a huge pain in the ass.

Its why i dont play with elitists and meta players, they are a legend in their own mind. They spend all their time using leaderboards, and combat analysis to convince themselves of how awesome they are. They then tell everyone else " you need to be as awesome as me to do this content" . And then i take a group of casuals, who dont even know their is a leaderboard, through the same content and we do it just fine and have a blast.

It boils down to a small portion of players saying" if you dont play like me, your not good enough to do content" and pretty much everyone else ignoring them.

But all of this is way off track. The OP asked if they can do viable dps without a bunch of nonsense and the correct answer is yes.

Elitists and meta players can play their way, im fine with that. If you want to OCD over stats and leaderboards, fine. But they need to stop telling everyone that the way they play the game is the only way to play the game and complete content, because its not. Its just the only way they can complete content.

Have you cleared any vet trials?

clv · March 2018

https://gyazo.com/60266c3ccb381e7141af07c7e2f96777

here is a screenshot of 25k dps on a dummy with literally no dots and a single buff to keep up, merciless resolve.
i don't understand what sort of mental gymnastics goes into justifying pulling less than this but it's absolutely mindboggling to think that you're allowed to weigh your group down with "b-but I HATE META AND ELITISTS BWAHHHH" as some sort of pathetic rationale.

yes, you can do "decent"(?) dps without "a bunch of nonsense", but even still there's a limit to how acceptable it is to pull low numbers. but by all means, surround yourself with people that don't know what leaderboards are and thus don't know better, to convince yourself otherwise, and keep on snipe spamming with your intermittent poison injections. you are the embodiment of the oblivious stealth archer guy that everyone jokes about.

wait here's a better number
https://gyazo.com/23fc5fcb7ac5aa53de1a1eb9e0d0f3e2
re-edit: a better number
https://gyazo.com/dc464e0737c4b810e89ce67233c1fe7d

can literally just mash one button consecutively for a while until execute, and then i mash another button. how in any way is this difficult, complex, etc etc

WuffyCerulei · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

It's fine that it works best for you, that's not my problem. But you are turning your own opinion into a fact here. That you can't handle it doesn't mean that it is bad.
Sure, a complex rotation isn't necessary if you are doing normal dungeons. But if you go into the games hardest content it is absolutely essential.

No not my opinion. Facts are based on observations and data. In my observations in a very long history of MMO gaming, theorycrafting and meta are garbage. They dont factor in a bunch of components and in many games dummy parsing and theorycrafting wont get you much more than an lol.

The meta players in this game seem to to think theorycrafting is the bible though. I mean its to be expected, they need to justify having a complex rotation and having to obtain high dps numbers on everything( that they cherry pick). The difference is in other games people call them on their nonsense BS. But this game has a lot of casuals that are more interested in achieves and questing than endgame content. Not to mention a large population of people who never played an mmo.

But i have the experience to call BS on theorycrafting and meta. You dont need stupid high dummy parses to do endgame content, you just need to be competent unless ZOS really really screwed up the endgame .

As i said when i heal dungeons, the headaches are always those meta players, that think they are god because they parsed 35k on a dummy. They constantly need attention and they arent near as good as they think they are. In fact they are a huge pain in the ass.

Its why i dont play with elitists and meta players, they are a legend in their own mind. They spend all their time using leaderboards, and combat analysis to convince themselves of how awesome they are. They then tell everyone else " you need to be as awesome as me to do this content" . And then i take a group of casuals, who dont even know their is a leaderboard, through the same content and we do it just fine and have a blast.

It boils down to a small portion of players saying" if you dont play like me, your not good enough to do content" and pretty much everyone else ignoring them.

But all of this is way off track. The OP asked if they can do viable dps without a bunch of nonsense and the correct answer is yes.

Elitists and meta players can play their way, im fine with that. If you want to OCD over stats and leaderboards, fine. But they need to stop telling everyone that the way they play the game is the only way to play the game and complete content, because its not. Its just the only way they can complete content.

What a disgusting amount of salt to end-game pvers. Sure, you don't need to crap out 35k+ dps to do things like vet dungeons and a couple vet trials. However, clearing vet trials like vMaw and vHoF with subpar dps and getting mad when people say you need better dps won't get you very far. Not every dps is going to crap out 40k dps, and if they're not the greatest, people encourage them to practice and get better. The meta isn't required by law to use, also. You have that freedom to play how you want and whatnot. Meta dps builds are just what does the most damage, after much theorizing and testing.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

I just want you to know that I am in 10 discords and I shared your post in each discords meme channel. It's currently the hottest meme of the year:) I'm so grateful! I'm gonna nominate you for a Darwin award:)

@hedna123b14_ESO

LMAO. We missed you around here.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2018

clv wrote: »

https://gyazo.com/60266c3ccb381e7141af07c7e2f96777

here is a screenshot of 25k dps on a dummy with literally no dots and a single buff to keep up, merciless resolve.
i don't understand what sort of mental gymnastics goes into justifying pulling less than this but it's absolutely mindboggling to think that you're allowed to weigh your group down with "b-but I HATE META AND ELITISTS BWAHHHH" as some sort of pathetic rationale.

yes, you can do "decent"(?) dps without "a bunch of nonsense", but even still there's a limit to how acceptable it is to pull low numbers. but by all means, surround yourself with people that don't know what leaderboards are and thus don't know better, to convince yourself otherwise, and keep on snipe spamming with your intermittent poison injections. you are the embodiment of the oblivious stealth archer guy that everyone jokes about.

wait here's a better number
https://gyazo.com/23fc5fcb7ac5aa53de1a1eb9e0d0f3e2
re-edit: a better number
https://gyazo.com/dc464e0737c4b810e89ce67233c1fe7d

can literally just mash one button consecutively for a while until execute, and then i mash another button. how in any way is this difficult, complex, etc etc

@clv
I like the test, and I am on your side, but lets not pretend you were mashing one button. You had 100 light attacks in that parse, and 16 bow procs. You obviously know how to play mageblade, and you were certainly weaving and casting bow procs as they came up. What you did in that parse requires more skill than most simple/circular rotations.

Ebonslayer21 · March 2018

clv wrote: »

https://gyazo.com/60266c3ccb381e7141af07c7e2f96777

here is a screenshot of 25k dps on a dummy with literally no dots and a single buff to keep up, merciless resolve.
i don't understand what sort of mental gymnastics goes into justifying pulling less than this but it's absolutely mindboggling to think that you're allowed to weigh your group down with "b-but I HATE META AND ELITISTS BWAHHHH" as some sort of pathetic rationale.

yes, you can do "decent"(?) dps without "a bunch of nonsense", but even still there's a limit to how acceptable it is to pull low numbers. but by all means, surround yourself with people that don't know what leaderboards are and thus don't know better, to convince yourself otherwise, and keep on snipe spamming with your intermittent poison injections. you are the embodiment of the oblivious stealth archer guy that everyone jokes about.

wait here's a better number
https://gyazo.com/23fc5fcb7ac5aa53de1a1eb9e0d0f3e2
re-edit: a better number
https://gyazo.com/dc464e0737c4b810e89ce67233c1fe7d

can literally just mash one button consecutively for a while until execute, and then i mash another button. how in any way is this difficult, complex, etc etc

@clv
Interesting numbers there, I like that it is possible to pull such high numbers without a DOT or a bunch of buffs and debuffs. Sadly, I play a Stamblade for the most part but still, the fact remains that those numbers are possible and I may be able to get somewhere near there with weaving, good stats and equipment, and a few spammables.

However, I don't like your elitist attitude. Did you not read the part where I said "no trials, no PVP, and no DLC vet dungeons"? That leaves solo content, norm dungeons, and the easier vanilla vet dungeons. I will barely weigh down my group in content like that. I may not do their (unneeded amounts of) damage at times, but I will be able to pull my own weight.

Horowonnoe · March 2018

Ebonslayer21 wrote: »

clv wrote: »

https://gyazo.com/60266c3ccb381e7141af07c7e2f96777

here is a screenshot of 25k dps on a dummy with literally no dots and a single buff to keep up, merciless resolve.
i don't understand what sort of mental gymnastics goes into justifying pulling less than this but it's absolutely mindboggling to think that you're allowed to weigh your group down with "b-but I HATE META AND ELITISTS BWAHHHH" as some sort of pathetic rationale.

yes, you can do "decent"(?) dps without "a bunch of nonsense", but even still there's a limit to how acceptable it is to pull low numbers. but by all means, surround yourself with people that don't know what leaderboards are and thus don't know better, to convince yourself otherwise, and keep on snipe spamming with your intermittent poison injections. you are the embodiment of the oblivious stealth archer guy that everyone jokes about.

wait here's a better number
https://gyazo.com/23fc5fcb7ac5aa53de1a1eb9e0d0f3e2
re-edit: a better number
https://gyazo.com/dc464e0737c4b810e89ce67233c1fe7d

can literally just mash one button consecutively for a while until execute, and then i mash another button. how in any way is this difficult, complex, etc etc

@clv
Interesting numbers there, I like that it is possible to pull such high numbers without a DOT or a bunch of buffs and debuffs. Sadly, I play a Stamblade for the most part but still, the fact remains that those numbers are possible and I may be able to get somewhere near there with weaving, good stats and equipment, and a few spammables.

However, I don't like your elitist attitude. Did you not read the part where I said "no trials, no PVP, and no DLC vet dungeons"? That leaves solo content, norm dungeons, and the easier vanilla vet dungeons. I will barely weigh down my group in content like that. I may not do their (unneeded amounts of) damage at times, but I will be able to pull my own weight.

To do those things you described - i.e. solo content, Fungal Grotto 1 on normal, etc etc you really don't need a build. You can complete all of that stuff naked, with no armor and a bucket and a broom as your tools of attack. So knock yourself out on what you want to wear for that type content. You can literally spam any skill in the game and still beat those things.
It might take you a little longer, but you can definitely beat it.

You could even beat normal Maelstrom Arena! It's possible to beat it with a level 5 toon with the free armor you get from the Prophet and spamming one skill.

lassitershawn · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

Seen this crap in a few discords now. This is so untrue it isn't even funny. Nobody should listen to this.
1. When casting a skill, you want to cast what will give you the most damage over the FULL DURATION of the skill. A caltrop tick might not hit as hard as a snipe, but it will do more damage over the full duration.
2. Maintaining a good rotation in a real combat setting just takes practice. If you practice your rotation on dummies you will do it better in dungeons.
3. Why do you have 150 CP allocated on your sorc when you states earlier you have 250 CP?
4. When you say shard do you mean crystal frags? Since you are using only liquid lightning you can't be getting many cfrag procs so I can only assume you are using crystal blast if you are "sharding everything." lul
5. It is true that staying alive matters, but it doesn't matter much if you are only doing 10k dps.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

I can do 10k dps just light attacking, I have the screens to prove it.
see here-

Illurian · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you cant do a 10 button rotation and hit 40k on a dummy, you should reroll IRL. Just kidding.

I have a Bosmer stamblade. 250CP Uses one bar. Has pos inj,snipe, draining shot, caltrops, endless hail on a bar. Its the only bar i use. He is wearing gold hundings with hundings bow, purple velidreth shoulders with the wrong trait, 2 purple red mountain, purple agility jewels. His penetration is a whopping 1500. Using trash pots, no buffs other than hawk's eye and minor fracture and no poison, i can sustain 10k on a dummy with him using only injection and snipe with LA and HA.

If i add more stuff to a dummy, my dps drops. Add poison, dps drops, add caltrops dps drops, add endless hail dps drops. Why does it drop? because the abilities may be instant but casting them is not. So the time i spend fooling around with a bunch of garbage, i could be firing snipes and replenishing my stam. If i cast caltrops that ability does about 1900 dps but it takes a second to target and fire. It takes a second to use snipe so i drop from 12k damage that second to 1900 dps. Do the same with endless, 1500 dps and takes a second or two to cast. so i lost out on 24k damage to gain 5300 damage. Now i have to recast injection, and then i have to do HA to regain all the stam i lost with Dots. Back to snipe, i get to snipe once and its time to start over recasting all of my DoTs again.

Now add a second bar to that so you do all that swap bars, do a second bar full of stuff, swap bars. Oh wait got to add the good pots in there. So now we have to keep uptime on our pots. Wait not done yet. got synergies to hit, lets add those in there.

In a combat setting we have to mix all this in with running, dodging, and blocking. Well now im just trying to maintain uptime on stuff while trying to stay alive. That completely tosses my uber elite rotations out the window.

While you try to keep up with your elite rotation you spent 6 hours practicing on a dummy, ill use inject and snipe and if we are fighting trash my aoes. I bet i do as much damage as you if not more.

Do the same thing on my level 35 magsorc with 150 allocated cp and crappy blue gear. I LL and shard everything and im doing more dps than the other dps who is CP 300 plus and doing a long rotation. Do it all the time in dungeons. I dont even have most of my passives...like at all, not even a single point in most of them.

The only use for a dummy is for comparison purposes and to enlarge your epeen after you do 200 parses to get that one where everything went perfect, procs fired a lot, you was criting like crazy, and you hit every button perfectly on time with zero distractions, zero lag, zero fps drops, and zero bugs.

Unfortunately we dont play in a perfect world. It doesnt matter how much dps you can do if you cant apply it consistently in a combat setting without dying. Ill take someone that does consistently lower dps without needing a bunch of buffs and debuffs and can do the mechanics and not die over someone that hit like freight train on a dummy but that is their one trick pony.

And as someone that heals a lot in dungeons, i see a lot of that. I dread getting high levels in my groups because of that perfect rotation meta that is utter garbage in a useful setting. So i spend all my time trying to keep their gimpy asses alive. Meanwhile the level 20s and 30s newbs are rocking it out. Sure it takes them a little longer, but they arent almost dead every 10 seconds either and i dont have to spam heals on them to keep them alive.

Many people in this game are absolutely certifiably insane.

Thank you for discrediting everything you have ever said, and will ever say, on these forums for the rest of the game's lifespan.

Also thanks for the giggles. Really needed them today.

Septimus_Magna · April 2018

If you play a pet sorc the rotation is extremely simple.

Liquid > LA > Wall > barswap
Scamp > LA > Curse > 2x HA
Repeat

You can easily pull 25k dps with gear like Necropotence and Julianos.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

If you play a pet sorc the rotation is extremely simple.

Liquid > LA > Wall > barswap
Scamp > LA > Curse > 2x HA
Repeat

You can easily pull 25k dps with gear like Necropotence and Julianos.

You can do 25k without the light attacks as well. I do all the time.

kylewwefan · April 2018

On my Khajit StamBlade nothing has given me more satisfaction than Twice Fang/ VO/ Veledreth. Lover mundus and 50+CP penetration. Absolutely melts dungeon mobs. Though it’s a tremendous grind to get the weapons

Bladerunner1 · April 2018

Ebonslayer21 wrote: »

clv wrote: »

https://gyazo.com/60266c3ccb381e7141af07c7e2f96777

here is a screenshot of 25k dps on a dummy with literally no dots and a single buff to keep up, merciless resolve.
i don't understand what sort of mental gymnastics goes into justifying pulling less than this but it's absolutely mindboggling to think that you're allowed to weigh your group down with "b-but I HATE META AND ELITISTS BWAHHHH" as some sort of pathetic rationale.

yes, you can do "decent"(?) dps without "a bunch of nonsense", but even still there's a limit to how acceptable it is to pull low numbers. but by all means, surround yourself with people that don't know what leaderboards are and thus don't know better, to convince yourself otherwise, and keep on snipe spamming with your intermittent poison injections. you are the embodiment of the oblivious stealth archer guy that everyone jokes about.

wait here's a better number
https://gyazo.com/23fc5fcb7ac5aa53de1a1eb9e0d0f3e2
re-edit: a better number
https://gyazo.com/dc464e0737c4b810e89ce67233c1fe7d

can literally just mash one button consecutively for a while until execute, and then i mash another button. how in any way is this difficult, complex, etc etc

@clv
Interesting numbers there, I like that it is possible to pull such high numbers without a DOT or a bunch of buffs and debuffs. Sadly, I play a Stamblade for the most part but still, the fact remains that those numbers are possible and I may be able to get somewhere near there with weaving, good stats and equipment, and a few spammables.

However, I don't like your elitist attitude. Did you not read the part where I said "no trials, no PVP, and no DLC vet dungeons"? That leaves solo content, norm dungeons, and the easier vanilla vet dungeons. I will barely weigh down my group in content like that. I may not do their (unneeded amounts of) damage at times, but I will be able to pull my own weight.

Since you have a Stamblade this is essentially the same button mashing as magblade but using more stamina morphs. Light attack weave between relentless focus and 4x surprise attacks to get free assassin's scourge bow procs. Throw in soul harvest when it's up for the 20% damage buff. Perhaps leeching strikes for the stamina regen. Use light attack+ killers blade for the execute phase. That pretty much covers it, but it takes a lot of practice to get the weaving just right and it's all about using the skills as fast as the game allows for minutes at a time without thinking too much about it. When you've mastered that weaving rotation I'd say you've unlocked your nightblade. Then it might not seem so bad to move on to the next step and add in some DOTs.

Here's something worth mentioning, those of us in this thread who weren't born as fully functioning DPS gods (because apparently some of them have no idea how you could ever take the no-DOT stance shown in the OP) probably sucked at one point or another until they practiced and learned how to improve. After homestead introduced target skeletons I realized I was getting absolutely terrible DPS, and in that moment I noticed an increase when I focused on hitting light attack/ surprise attack spam as fast as I could manage. For me it wasn't so much a eureka moment as it was a WTH-is-wrong with this *#@% moment.

Then I discovered that the bow and the DOT skills seem to follow close to the same light attack + skill global cooldown as the dual wield bar. The light attack weaving of a bow appears slower and it's unforgiving when you activate the next skill a fraction of a second too early. But it's entirely possible to squeeze in around the same number of light attack / DOT skill combos in the same amount of time. Even with endless hail you can hit the next light attack around half a second early, then as soon as the arrow is fired the next skill can be activated. This can all be done with a similar button mashing rythm you would use on the dual wield bar, depending on latency.

When I started cycling through the damage-over-time bow bar with the same speed I used on dual wield the dps shot up a lot. It had to be done without much thought, and it took a lot of practice.