A pvp switch in pve zones

Voxicity · April 2018

MarrazzMist wrote: »

So me and my team could charge ultis, gank other person/group, and then switch to ”no-pvp”, and be like: sorry, you can’t touch us

There’s a lot more to it, than simple ”ZOS doesn’t want this”. It’s pain to make, too many ways to abuse it.

So if something is challenging to make, don't bother with it?

MarrazzMist · April 2018

Voxicity wrote: »

MarrazzMist wrote: »

So me and my team could charge ultis, gank other person/group, and then switch to ”no-pvp”, and be like: sorry, you can’t touch us

There’s a lot more to it, than simple ”ZOS doesn’t want this”. It’s pain to make, too many ways to abuse it.

So if something is challenging to make, don't bother with it?

If it doesn’t pay back, then no. Would it bring that many new players to ESO?

Voxicity · April 2018

MarrazzMist wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

MarrazzMist wrote: »

So me and my team could charge ultis, gank other person/group, and then switch to ”no-pvp”, and be like: sorry, you can’t touch us

There’s a lot more to it, than simple ”ZOS doesn’t want this”. It’s pain to make, too many ways to abuse it.

So if something is challenging to make, don't bother with it?

If it doesn’t pay back, then no. Would it bring that many new players to ESO?

I don't know, maybe it would. I'm sure ZOS could find a way to monetise it anyway

Voxicity · April 2018

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Integral1900 wrote: »

Considering that us pve exclusive Care Bears make up 90% of the player base and therefore 90% of the money that ZOS gets I can calmly and considerately say...

NO WAY THIS SIDE OF HELL!!!!!!!

May I ask how an opt in PvP system would effect a PvE player? Is it that PvE players don't want to see people fighting? Or what? I can't get my head around it

Pretty much

For me, that's not a valid reason whatsoever

DaveMoeDee · April 2018

Voxicity wrote: »

MarrazzMist wrote: »

So me and my team could charge ultis, gank other person/group, and then switch to ”no-pvp”, and be like: sorry, you can’t touch us

There’s a lot more to it, than simple ”ZOS doesn’t want this”. It’s pain to make, too many ways to abuse it.

So if something is challenging to make, don't bother with it?

If it is a feature few players want that will also hurt server performance, correct.

Minyassa · April 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

I think it would be ace. But keep Alliance no friendly fire on

Fed up of seeing DC and AD roaming across EP territory since OneTamriel.

Game really needs this to help the lore. And as a switch zero reason why PvE care bears wouldn't want it, i mean.they already have PvE in PvP zones

You say that like it's something we want or like, instead of something we feel forced to have to do for completion that makes us get closer to PvP than we ever would if the game wasn't herding us into it.

Voxicity · April 2018

Minyassa wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I think it would be ace. But keep Alliance no friendly fire on

Fed up of seeing DC and AD roaming across EP territory since OneTamriel.

Game really needs this to help the lore. And as a switch zero reason why PvE care bears wouldn't want it, i mean.they already have PvE in PvP zones

You say that like it's something we want or like, instead of something we feel forced to have to do for completion that makes us get closer to PvP than we ever would if the game wasn't herding us into it.

As a PvP player, I could say the exact same thing for completing PvE content

Voxicity · April 2018

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

MarrazzMist wrote: »

So me and my team could charge ultis, gank other person/group, and then switch to ”no-pvp”, and be like: sorry, you can’t touch us

There’s a lot more to it, than simple ”ZOS doesn’t want this”. It’s pain to make, too many ways to abuse it.

So if something is challenging to make, don't bother with it?

If it is a feature few players want that will also hurt server performance, correct.

I think some players who think they wouldn't want it, actually would enjoy seeing a more 'sandbox' world. They are just so far down the 'I hate everything PvP related because of reasons' hole that they can't see out of it

themaddaedra · April 2018

All these "i don't understand why others argue against this" comments just prove the ignorance

I won't really bother telling how many major issues are caused by PvPers yelling for nerfs 7/24. You can go check PvP combat section for proof btw

No, i'm not going deep into that. But i will tell you about the lag and fps drops this implemention would cause. In dungeons and trials we get huge, nonsense fps drops, and Cyrodiil is just another name for lag. The PvE zones are actually only places people can play without some stupid lag or fps drops. I'd like it to stay that way.

In the other hand, as @Ch4mpTW stated above, it would bring a hugeload of toxicity into zone chats. Now you can't use the argument of "as if PvEers are shiny angels" because nobody claims that, but obviously we don't curse, blame, humiliate each other in zone chats because of some raid strategies or while LFM for quests/worlbosses etc. Which is kinda basics of PvP chat.

So, this is a bad idea overall, and sorry for not taking onto these problems just because you want to PvP in PvE zones.

Voxicity · April 2018

themaddaedra wrote: »

we don't curse, blame, humiliate each other in zone chats because of some raid strategies or while LFM for quests/worlbosses etc.

This has to be ironic

Ragnork · April 2018

There was a recent poll: would you keep playing if PvP was removed.
Two thirds of the voters said yes they would keep playing without PvP.

Seems to me that those who want open world PvP should be playing a different game....

Voxicity · April 2018

Ragnork wrote: »

There was a recent poll: would you keep playing if PvP was removed.
Two thirds of the voters said yes they would keep playing without PvP.

Seems to me that those who want open world PvP should be playing a different game....

Unfortunately there are no open world PvP games that come close to the smoothness and fun of ESO's combat. When one does pop up, we will be gone. But I don't see that day coming any time soon

DaveMoeDee · April 2018

Voxicity wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

MarrazzMist wrote: »

So me and my team could charge ultis, gank other person/group, and then switch to ”no-pvp”, and be like: sorry, you can’t touch us

There’s a lot more to it, than simple ”ZOS doesn’t want this”. It’s pain to make, too many ways to abuse it.

So if something is challenging to make, don't bother with it?

If it is a feature few players want that will also hurt server performance, correct.

I think some players who think they wouldn't want it, actually would enjoy seeing a more 'sandbox' world. They are just so far down the 'I hate everything PvP related because of reasons' hole that they can't see out of it

The numbers would have to be really high, which they aren't, to justify sacrificing server performance further and spending all that money on development and maintenance.

themaddaedra · April 2018

Voxicity wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

we don't curse, blame, humiliate each other in zone chats because of some raid strategies or while LFM for quests/worlbosses etc.

This has to be ironic

Not really, it's 10/10 truth. PvP chat is as toxic as it goes and everybody knows that. And PvE chat is %90 LFG/WTS/WTB. Now if you feel like giving me a terrible example of PvE chat just mind the %10 i left open.

I don't even know why i'm trying to tell something obvious.

DaveMoeDee · April 2018

Ragnork wrote: »

There was a recent poll: would you keep playing if PvP was removed.
Two thirds of the voters said yes they would keep playing without PvP.

Seems to me that those who want open world PvP should be playing a different game....

Wait, PvP is still in the game?

Beardimus · April 2018

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

No thanks. The game was introduced to more lag (as if that was needed) when dueling in PvE zones was implemented. To have even more PvP going on in PvE zones would probably cause performance to decrease even further. In my opinion, it was a huge mistake on ZOS’ behalf to enable dueling outside of PvP environments and or player homes. The game truly didn’t need that added on stress with it already having been so unstable as is. Dueling just magnified the issue(s).

Poor performance aside, I don’t think the game needs anymore reasons to have PvP-driven players to disrespect and flame each other in chat. It becomes tiring to see people insult each other over something like PvP day in and day out. Especially when there are usually more pressing matters to be tended to.

More pressing matters? Lol hilarious.

Worst lag in towns was pre dueling for me with PvEers spaming AOE all over the place for no reason. I concur id like no dueking in banks or in the 3 big towns more from a

I've never seen PvP insults in chat ever, as players are different alliances in Cyrodiil but i do see gold sellers and PvE people spamming Bound items to Epeen they did the latest dungeon or grinders after skyreach runs

Hey i PvP and PvE i enjoy the wider rich content of the game but i find the anti PvP arguments hilarious as they so weak and biased like.the PvP players are blood thirsty cut throats all hating on each other its hilarious

Bhaal5 · April 2018

Voxicity wrote: »

Ragnork wrote: »

There was a recent poll: would you keep playing if PvP was removed.
Two thirds of the voters said yes they would keep playing without PvP.

Seems to me that those who want open world PvP should be playing a different game....

Unfortunately there are no open world PvP games that come close to the smoothness and fun of ESO's combat. When one does pop up, we will be gone. But I don't see that day coming any time soon

Well there is, gw2 and does it better as well.BUT unfortunately its only on pc and not on console :'(

themaddaedra · April 2018

I've never seen PvP insults in chat ever,

Hahhaa! Amazing

Beardimus · April 2018

themaddaedra wrote: »

I've never seen PvP insults in chat ever,

Hahhaa! Amazing

Genuinely haven't. I'm console, we only see our alliance in zone chat. So there is no way

Sure you might get an Xbox message if something wild happens, but not zone chat as opposing players can't.

It's not like zone chat in PvE lit up after dueling came in either with ePeen or rage. So I'm jist saying the 'hate filled rage in zone chat' argument is nonsense.

Beardimus · April 2018

themaddaedra wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

we don't curse, blame, humiliate each other in zone chats because of some raid strategies or while LFM for quests/worlbosses etc.

This has to be ironic

Not really, it's 10/10 truth. PvP chat is as toxic as it goes and everybody knows that. And PvE chat is %90 LFG/WTS/WTB. Now if you feel like giving me a terrible example of PvE chat just mind the %10 i left open.

I don't even know why i'm trying to tell something obvious.

Just not true. Xbox EU we don't have that, as you cant see other alliances chat. PC might be different

For me PvE chat is 80% what you say add people spamming selling gold or playing music down the mic or asking for skureach carries or sharing BOP items to epeen which is all as annoying as anything else...

If i could turn off PvE chat in towns I 100% would. And hell.if i could turn on alliance text chat in Cyro i would! Be great tactially for calling people / bluffing.

Voxicity · April 2018

themaddaedra wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

we don't curse, blame, humiliate each other in zone chats because of some raid strategies or while LFM for quests/worlbosses etc.

This has to be ironic

Not really, it's 10/10 truth. PvP chat is as toxic as it goes and everybody knows that. And PvE chat is %90 LFG/WTS/WTB. Now if you feel like giving me a terrible example of PvE chat just mind the %10 i left open.

I don't even know why i'm trying to tell something obvious.

How can it be 10/10 truth if you just said 10% is left open?

Anyway in my experience playing the game for coming up to 3 years, with 100+days in Cyro and probably more in PvE, the vast majority of toxicity I have experienced has been in PvE. Maybe I am an anomaly, but to say the zone chat in PvE zones isn't full of cursing, blaming and humiliating each other is just wrong. I'm not going to repeat specifics but I've heard all kinds of talk about real world issues and whatnot being brought into PvE zone chats. In PvP all I really see is "Chalman UA 20 blues" etc

themaddaedra · April 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I've never seen PvP insults in chat ever,

Hahhaa! Amazing

Genuinely haven't. I'm console, we only see our alliance in zone chat. So there is no way

Sure you might get an Xbox message if something wild happens, but not zone chat as opposing players can't.

It's not like zone chat in PvE lit up after dueling came in either with ePeen or rage. So I'm jist saying the 'hate filled rage in zone chat' argument is nonsense.

Well, i must be just imagining all these allies insulting each other for attacking the other keep, or not defending the empire, or for general stuff like strategies, builds they disagree on. My imagination went real far

Anyways tho, i'm fairly sure there will be no implemention for such a switch. I'm only here to see how far from reality people can go, and implying that pvp chat is clear just made the top for me

Cheers.

Voxicity · April 2018

themaddaedra wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I've never seen PvP insults in chat ever,

Hahhaa! Amazing

Genuinely haven't. I'm console, we only see our alliance in zone chat. So there is no way

Sure you might get an Xbox message if something wild happens, but not zone chat as opposing players can't.

It's not like zone chat in PvE lit up after dueling came in either with ePeen or rage. So I'm jist saying the 'hate filled rage in zone chat' argument is nonsense.

Well, i must be just imagining all these allies insulting each other for attacking the other keep, or not defending the empire, or for general stuff like strategies, builds they disagree on. My imagination went real far

Anyways tho, i'm fairly sure there will be no implemention for such a switch. I'm only here to see how far from reality people can go, and implying that pvp chat is clear just made the top for me Cheers.

Well I haven't seen Syrian refugees mentioned in PvP zone chat, while PvE zone chats on the other hand... that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of insults I've seen

Klixen · April 2018

I have no problem with this, as long as it's optional!

If people want to flag and kill each other, then that's fine by me. I myself have zero interest in PvP, so I will NEVER flag. But if others want to, then go for it!

As long as care bears aren't forced to PVP then who cares?

Actually, I wish they'd introduce a flagging system for the WHOLE game (including Cyrodil and any other PvP zones) then those who want to PvP can do so and the rest of us can just get on with playing the game in peace.

Minyassa · April 2018

Some people have extremely good or extremely bad luck with whole areas of the game, whether it is RNG related, whether it's with griefers, with nasty chat, or anything else. Clearly some people have had bad experience with PvE chat. I am one of the ones who have had the opposite.

Normally I avoid looking at zone chat in Auridon, Glenumbra and Stonefalls (gee, there seems to be a correlation there) because that's where chat is full of gross sexual comments, random toilet words, racist talk, sexist talk, bigot talk, vicious religious arguments, and other stuff that I just don't need scathing my eyeballs while I try to have fun. That's three zones out of the entirety of the PvE world that I have consistent bad experiences with. They are VERY blatantly gross. The rest of the world is pretty much fine and I have not seen anything like it in other zones.

I just spent my first 3 days in Cyrodiil fishing, and it was with just one toon so I can speak only for one alliance's chat. What I saw every single day for several hours at a time was this: "NBs at _____" "!@#$ing douchbags!!" "stupid orcs can go !@#$ themselves, they're not as good as Altmer" "!@#$ing !@#$ is cheating, that !@#$er" "calm down" "!@#$ you" etc. Nonstop, just a string of cursing, accusing all of the enemy of cheating, badmouthing races, being angry just because opponents were somewhere to fight, being angry because of *everything*. I've never seen so many people in any chat that looked like they were so miserable to be playing a game together and it really made me wonder why they were there if they're having such a terrible time.

To me the difference looks like PvP jerks are really aggressive and just angry all the time, and PvE jerks in overpopulated zones are trolls and just angry all the time. Sounds like a people problem, pretty much. You throw too many humans together they get hissy. And when you have something major that divides people's interest and purpose like PvE vs. PvP, there's another big obstacle toward compromise. The best thing would have been a greater degree of separation but it's too late for that. But going the other way and blurring the lines even more would just do more damage as people would feel that the game was becoming something that is actually hostile to them, and get more hostile in response.

starkerealm · April 2018

MarrazzMist wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

MarrazzMist wrote: »

So me and my team could charge ultis, gank other person/group, and then switch to ”no-pvp”, and be like: sorry, you can’t touch us

There’s a lot more to it, than simple ”ZOS doesn’t want this”. It’s pain to make, too many ways to abuse it.

So if something is challenging to make, don't bother with it?

If it doesn’t pay back, then no. Would it bring that many new players to ESO?

I'm inclined to believe that Justice System PvP would bring players in. It did sound like a compelling game mode. Of course that's a very different mechanic than simply, "yeah, open the place up to PvP.

Voxicity · April 2018

Minyassa wrote: »

Some people have extremely good or extremely bad luck with whole areas of the game, whether it is RNG related, whether it's with griefers, with nasty chat, or anything else. Clearly some people have had bad experience with PvE chat. I am one of the ones who have had the opposite.

Normally I avoid looking at zone chat in Auridon, Glenumbra and Stonefalls (gee, there seems to be a correlation there) because that's where chat is full of gross sexual comments, random toilet words, racist talk, sexist talk, bigot talk, vicious religious arguments, and other stuff that I just don't need scathing my eyeballs while I try to have fun. That's three zones out of the entirety of the PvE world that I have consistent bad experiences with. They are VERY blatantly gross. The rest of the world is pretty much fine and I have not seen anything like it in other zones.

I just spent my first 3 days in Cyrodiil fishing, and it was with just one toon so I can speak only for one alliance's chat. What I saw every single day for several hours at a time was this: "NBs at _____" "!@#$ing douchbags!!" "stupid orcs can go !@#$ themselves, they're not as good as Altmer" "!@#$ing !@#$ is cheating, that !@#$er" "calm down" "!@#$ you" etc. Nonstop, just a string of cursing, accusing all of the enemy of cheating, badmouthing races, being angry just because opponents were somewhere to fight, being angry because of *everything*. I've never seen so many people in any chat that looked like they were so miserable to be playing a game together and it really made me wonder why they were there if they're having such a terrible time.

To me the difference looks like PvP jerks are really aggressive and just angry all the time, and PvE jerks in overpopulated zones are trolls and just angry all the time. Sounds like a people problem, pretty much. You throw too many humans together they get hissy. And when you have something major that divides people's interest and purpose like PvE vs. PvP, there's another big obstacle toward compromise. The best thing would have been a greater degree of separation but it's too late for that. But going the other way and blurring the lines even more would just do more damage as people would feel that the game was becoming something that is actually hostile to them, and get more hostile in response.

Do you play on EU or NA?

It may even be a regional thing

Voxicity · April 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

MarrazzMist wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

MarrazzMist wrote: »

So me and my team could charge ultis, gank other person/group, and then switch to ”no-pvp”, and be like: sorry, you can’t touch us

There’s a lot more to it, than simple ”ZOS doesn’t want this”. It’s pain to make, too many ways to abuse it.

So if something is challenging to make, don't bother with it?

If it doesn’t pay back, then no. Would it bring that many new players to ESO?

I'm inclined to believe that Justice System PvP would bring players in. It did sound like a compelling game mode. Of course that's a very different mechanic than simply, "yeah, open the place up to PvP.

Exactly. As far as I'm aware, there are no other MMO's with a justice system as extensive as ESO's as it stands right now. Being able to steal, get caught by guards, have a bounty etc. This gives ZOS the opportunity to create more meaningful open world PvP, that ties nicely into PvE aspects of the game and is completely optional. Not just the generic 'here you go you can flag and kill people for no reason' seen in TERA for example

Knootewoot · April 2018

I loved Starwars Galaxies for this. Just type /PvP and voila, your PvP enabled. The Bestine/Anchorhead conflicts are still one of my favorite moments in gaming history.

Don't want to join?
- Don't type /PvP
- Don't heal/buff PvP enabled combatants
- Don't attack faction NPC's
- Probably better not to choose a side and remain neutral (civilian)

I think this would work in any mmo, /PvP with a counter of 5 mins when you want to switch back to PvE.

Sad part is that in this game the stealth and one-shot mechanics would ruin it for most part as most people would be hidden. And of course the lag makes it less fun, but even in SWG there was rubberbanding all over the place.

Minyassa · April 2018

Knootewoot wrote: »

I loved Starwars Galaxies for this. Just type /PvP and voila, your PvP enabled. The Bestine/Anchorhead conflicts are still one of my favorite moments in gaming history.

Don't want to join?
- Don't type /PvP
- Don't heal/buff PvP enabled combatants
- Don't attack faction NPC's
- Probably better not to choose a side and remain neutral (civilian)

I think this would work in any mmo, /PvP with a counter of 5 mins when you want to switch back to PvE.

Sad part is that in this game the stealth and one-shot mechanics would ruin it for most part as most people would be hidden. And of course the lag makes it less fun, but even in SWG there was rubberbanding all over the place.

I see a potential there for accidents. What if I'm doing a quest with my friend and a group spills over fighting into the area where we're fighting and I do an AoE heal on my friend and it happens to hit just as PvPers come through?