Why do you think there's isn't more Dragon Knight Healers?

Tasear · March 2018

What causes these guy to be rare to see?

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

From a PvP perspective or PvE?

coplannb16_ESO · March 2018

in comparison to the toolset wardens and templars bring along they are simply not very special.

- Cauterize is crap, too random and the timer sucks (e.g. you cannot "preload" it)
- obsidian shield is crap (too weak unless max HP build, resto staff heavy attack is more reliable for major mending)
- utility was basically removed or can be supplied by the tank anyway

in my book they should rather improve the mDK DPS (especially at > 10m range) and sustain than try to force the healer role on DKs. you can do off-healer with just resto staff, yes, but as long as we only have 3 class trees and only 2 morphs (of which we often have to differe between stam and magicka or/and PvE versus PvP) this isnt going to work.

I rather have a decent DPS and Tank option for stam, mag, pve and pvp than beeing crap at everything.

FrancisCrawford · March 2018

Lack of reason. DK has a good sustain passive, but every class except sorcerer has a nice aid to sustain as well. Beyond that:

Templar has many advantages for healing.
So does warden.
Sorcerer has a great burst heal.
Nightblade gets extra heals from their DPS bar.

DK has nothing like that to add.

I'm leveling up a DK via healing random normal dungeons, as I now would for any other magicka spec. Meh.

Feanor · March 2018

Unifying major mending to a 3 second buff wasn’t helpful in that regard. Since most tanks are already DKs the group support a DK healer can provide isn’t great.

Tasear · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

From a PvP perspective or PvE?

Let's say both?

Tasear · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Unifying major mending to a 3 second buff wasn’t helpful in that regard. Since most tanks are already DKs the group support a DK healer can provide isn’t great.

So maybe their buffs are to similar to most popular tank in the game?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Unifying major mending to a 3 second buff wasn’t helpful in that regard. Since most tanks are already DKs the group support a DK healer can provide isn’t great.

So maybe their buffs are to similar to most popular tank in the game?

That and their main draw as a healer, a ward healer who uses sheild instead of direictly healing, using igneous shields, interferes with dk tanks, igneous shields do not stack and you remove the last one if you cast it agian, ie if a dk tank with 30k health casts it and then a dk healer with only 18k health cast it, the tanks 10k shield is replaced with your meager 2k shield that you give. That is no good. This to me would be the largest reason not to use a dk as a healer.

On cauterize, people think of it as a hot, I would like to point out it heals as soon as you press the button, every time. So you could use that as your "burst heal" that also heals over time. I mean you are not going to get 30k crits but you out to be able to get at least 15-18k and that is enough for most players.

So obsidian shards heal is none trivial. You will be able to get 20k+ heals with that skill, if only you could target friendlys as well instead of relying on a target to get a "burst heal"

If I was going to make a dk healer, I think my bars would look like this-

Inner light- cauterize- igneous weapons- healing spring/Mutagen- combat prayer, ulti magma shell

Eledrain, obsidian shards, sanguine alter, mystic orbs, lightning wall, ulti warhorn.

Maybe swap obsidian shards and cauterize, so you get major prophecy on both bars.

Until they figure out how to make igneous shields stack or something, they don't belong on a healers bar.

Tasear · March 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Unifying major mending to a 3 second buff wasn’t helpful in that regard. Since most tanks are already DKs the group support a DK healer can provide isn’t great.

So maybe their buffs are to similar to most popular tank in the game?

That and their main draw as a healer, a ward healer who uses sheild instead of directly healing, using igneous shields, interferes with dk tanks, igneous shields do not stack and you remove the last one if you cast it agian, ie if a dk tank with 30k health casts it and then a dk healer with only 18k health cast it, the tanks 10k shield is replaced with your meager 2k shield that you give. That is no good. This to me would be the largest reason not to use a dk as a healer.

Would be nice if something could be done for them. Seems like be best ultimate generation healers for war horns.

I did though find mind really did well in cydrolli with all crowd control buffs and such.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Unifying major mending to a 3 second buff wasn’t helpful in that regard. Since most tanks are already DKs the group support a DK healer can provide isn’t great.

So maybe their buffs are to similar to most popular tank in the game?

That and their main draw as a healer, a ward healer who uses sheild instead of directly healing, using igneous shields, interferes with dk tanks, igneous shields do not stack and you remove the last one if you cast it agian, ie if a dk tank with 30k health casts it and then a dk healer with only 18k health cast it, the tanks 10k shield is replaced with your meager 2k shield that you give. That is no good. This to me would be the largest reason not to use a dk as a healer.

Would be nice if something could be done for them. Seems like be best ultimate generation healers for war horns.

I did though find mind really did well in cydrolli with all crowd control buffs and such.

I don't pvp, so all my thoughts are from a pve perspective, they require different type of healing and I can totally see how a dk healer could be good in PvP.

Dont_do_drugs · March 2018

made an pvp dk healer and i told people to stop judging. o/
dk is love, dk is life. on that perspective, with a mag dk, a stam dk, a dk tank....dk healer just has to be as well on the list of a true dk lover

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

made an pvp dk healer and i told people to stop judging. o/
dk is love, dk is life. on that perspective, with a mag dk, a stam dk, a dk tank....dk healer just has to be as well on the list of a true dk lover

Build details?

Tasear · March 2018

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

made an pvp dk healer and i told people to stop judging. o/
dk is love, dk is life. on that perspective, with a mag dk, a stam dk, a dk tank....dk healer just has to be as well on the list of a true dk lover

Tell is more? How does fair in PvP compared to other healers? What are your experiences in pve? Is there anything you wish for your class?

Dont_do_drugs · March 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

made an pvp dk healer and i told people to stop judging. o/
dk is love, dk is life. on that perspective, with a mag dk, a stam dk, a dk tank....dk healer just has to be as well on the list of a true dk lover

Build details?

not yet, i am in leveling and experimenting phase, but i am intending to test it with Jorvuld's Guidance and maybe Transmutation or ..well we'll see...

Tasear · March 2018

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

made an pvp dk healer and i told people to stop judging. o/
dk is love, dk is life. on that perspective, with a mag dk, a stam dk, a dk tank....dk healer just has to be as well on the list of a true dk lover

Build details?

not yet, i am in leveling and experimenting phase, but i am intending to test it with Jorvuld's Guidance and maybe Transmutation or ..well we'll see...

Jorvuld's Guidance well do we in PvP or PvE or so one can assume. You could maybe play around with barrair one that gives ulimate back and war horn.

Either way feel free to tell us what you done so far with you build. Talking tends inspire new ideas and soultions for not one person but many.

Dont_do_drugs · March 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

made an pvp dk healer and i told people to stop judging. o/
dk is love, dk is life. on that perspective, with a mag dk, a stam dk, a dk tank....dk healer just has to be as well on the list of a true dk lover

Build details?

not yet, i am in leveling and experimenting phase, but i am intending to test it with Jorvuld's Guidance and maybe Transmutation or ..well we'll see...

Jorvuld's Guidance well do we in PvP or PvE or so one can assume. You could maybe play around with barrair one that gives ulimate back and war horn.

Either way feel free to tell us what you done so far with you build. Talking tends inspire new ideas and soultions for not one person but many.

Well, i am intending to use the DK Healer for PvP, definitely not for PVE, i think at the moment only Warden can maybe keep it up with Templars there. As someone else said, we allready have the DK Tank who is doing a lot of support, i dont see in PVE a lot of usefull stuff für a dk healer so far, u dont need shields or powerfull healing, and support for magicka and stamina is something the dk seems to be missing hardly. but i can imagine shields and a couple of buffs for group pvp working,

Tasear · March 2018

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

made an pvp dk healer and i told people to stop judging. o/
dk is love, dk is life. on that perspective, with a mag dk, a stam dk, a dk tank....dk healer just has to be as well on the list of a true dk lover

Build details?

not yet, i am in leveling and experimenting phase, but i am intending to test it with Jorvuld's Guidance and maybe Transmutation or ..well we'll see...

Jorvuld's Guidance well do we in PvP or PvE or so one can assume. You could maybe play around with barrair one that gives ulimate back and war horn.

Either way feel free to tell us what you done so far with you build. Talking tends inspire new ideas and soultions for not one person but many.

Well, i am intending to use the DK Healer for PvP, definitely not for PVE, i think at the moment only Warden can maybe keep it up with Templars there. As someone else said, we allready have the DK Tank who is doing a lot of support, i dont see in PVE a lot of usefull stuff für a dk healer so far, u dont need shields or powerfull healing, and support for magicka and stamina is something the dk seems to be missing hardly. but i can imagine shields and a couple of buffs for group pvp working,

All classes have access to orbs that give orbs, Magicka, elemtal drain drain, and master resto. I pretty sure my sorc gives more resources back though... assuming people use the synergies. It's not as much since bone surge change, but there's clear domination in smaller groups.

I do agree dragon knight healers could use some indentity. It was so hard to wrap my mind around different in purpose between warden and dragon knight healers. It came down to wardens protect from damage as it happens and dragon knights miragrate damage with shields and crowd control. This is clearly a bit more ideal in large scale PvP, but could work in pve. Biggest issue though I see is dragon Healer most unpopular role class is being drawf by dragon knight tank the by far most popular tank.

Still though, I do think they have edge in fact they have Magicka to use to reapply shields more. Chains are nice when tank doesn't have. Also my do well in places with more mobs where they can help with crowd control. Well these are my thoughts.

ak_pvp · March 2018

The class is *** and just based around tanking.

Tasear · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

The class is *** and just based around tanking.

The skill adviser does have a dk healer build so that is something for them. Have not really looked at as much as others.

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

From a PvP perspective or PvE?

Let's say both?

DK does not really have the things that makes a damn good healer.

They can do okay healers, like how other classes do okay tanks in pve.

And from a PvP perspective Dks are having trouble even when played to their strenghts(stam ult gen/tanky bruiser or magicka fire mage), and their numbers are much less than it used to. So Its not a huge suprise there isn't many dk healers roaming cyrodiil.

In other words:

ak_pvp wrote: »

The class is *** and just based around tanking.

This is partial reason as to why Dks and templars both suck at the moment.
Dk should tank and templar should heal, nothing else is allowed.

Dont_do_drugs · March 2018

Tasear wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

The class is *** and just based around tanking.

The skill adviser does have a dk healer build so that is something for them. Have not really looked at as much as others.

well every class has this build advisor for each. actually its intending to make people stop reading their skills, it seems to me. like: i want to be dd, lets klick if adivsor says its better morph for me.

but whatever, sure i can update when i am that far that i can pvp with that dk then, but actually, since a healer in pvp is usually based around groupplay, and not really selfsustaining smallscale groups, but groups which need some heals or shields its really hard to give a good working impression. when discussing with people about builds its already hard to judge and compare sets and effectivity, since pvp usually is very situative, ure not just using some rotation and checking perfect uptimes on a boss or taget dummy and compare group dps then, so whatever i can give as feedback is very intuitive and way too subjective then maybe.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Quite honestly because they dont bring much to the table as healers. They only have two actual healing skills (cauterize and obsidian shard) both of which are pretty terrible compared to just about every other heal in the game. They only get major mending for a scant few seconds after using igneous shield, which scales off of health and no longer provides a substantial defensive benefit to anyone other than the user.

I ran my DK as a healer for quite a while last year just to give it a try, and was pretty disappointed in the results. They offer no real benefit to a group, while a templar or warden or even nightblade healer provides more buffs, more powerful healing, and typically better damage on top of those.

Tasear · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Quite honestly because they dont bring much to the table as healers. They only have two actual healing skills (cauterize and obsidian shard) both of which are pretty terrible compared to just about every other heal in the game. They only get major mending for a scant few seconds after using igneous shield, which scales off of health and no longer provides a substantial defensive benefit to anyone other than the user.

I ran my DK as a healer for quite a while last year just to give it a try, and was pretty disappointed in the results. They offer no real benefit to a group, while a templar or warden or even nightblade healer provides more buffs, more powerful healing, and typically better damage on top of those.

They done a few adjustments to do healer skills past 4 patches. Still healing can be a lot more then healing skills. They still have molten armaments?

But yes...more discussion for lesser know class/role and their current issues and gameplay. Maybe this will help inspire soultions for them?

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Quite honestly because they dont bring much to the table as healers. They only have two actual healing skills (cauterize and obsidian shard) both of which are pretty terrible compared to just about every other heal in the game. They only get major mending for a scant few seconds after using igneous shield, which scales off of health and no longer provides a substantial defensive benefit to anyone other than the user.

I ran my DK as a healer for quite a while last year just to give it a try, and was pretty disappointed in the results. They offer no real benefit to a group, while a templar or warden or even nightblade healer provides more buffs, more powerful healing, and typically better damage on top of those.

They done a few adjustments to do healer skills past 4 patches. Still healing can be a lot more then healing skills. They still have molten armaments?

But yes...more discussion for lesser know class/role and their current issues and gameplay. Maybe this will help inspire soultions for them?

What exactly do you think molten armaments supplies to the group? Every half decent character build either has a skill for major brutality/sorcery or they're using potions for it. Most DK's, even the stamdk's, even run the sorcery-only version (armaments) for the 40% heavy attack bonus. That bonus only applies to the DK who uses the ability, not to the team.

The only thing molten armaments (or any earthen heart ability) provides to the group is minor brutality via passives, but that can be provided by a dragonknight DPS or tank as well as a healer.
Not to mention that no abilities in the draconic power tree help a healer at all. An entire tree rendered 100% useless for a support role.

DK's are just built around tanking and damage, not healing. Group support was never really something in mind when they were designed.

Tasear · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Quite honestly because they dont bring much to the table as healers. They only have two actual healing skills (cauterize and obsidian shard) both of which are pretty terrible compared to just about every other heal in the game. They only get major mending for a scant few seconds after using igneous shield, which scales off of health and no longer provides a substantial defensive benefit to anyone other than the user.

I ran my DK as a healer for quite a while last year just to give it a try, and was pretty disappointed in the results. They offer no real benefit to a group, while a templar or warden or even nightblade healer provides more buffs, more powerful healing, and typically better damage on top of those.

They done a few adjustments to do healer skills past 4 patches. Still healing can be a lot more then healing skills. They still have molten armaments?

But yes...more discussion for lesser know class/role and their current issues and gameplay. Maybe this will help inspire soultions for them?

What exactly do you think molten armaments supplies to the group? Every half decent character build either has a skill for major brutality/sorcery or they're using potions for it. Most DK's, even the stamdk's, even run the sorcery-only version (armaments) for the 40% heavy attack bonus. That bonus only applies to the DK who uses the ability, not to the team.

The only thing molten armaments (or any earthen heart ability) provides to the group is minor brutality via passives, but that can be provided by a dragonknight DPS or tank as well as a healer.
Not to mention that no abilities in the draconic power tree help a healer at all. An entire tree rendered 100% useless for a support role.

DK's are just built around tanking and damage, not healing. Group support was never really something in mind when they were designed.

It's not that don't agree just touching on a point. Maybe someone who actually plays this class and role often will speak more of it.

Kumbiya · March 2018

Well, from a PvE perspective at least they're the weakest healer class, but the strongest tanking class and one of if not the strongest stamina DPS classes - good groups will min/max accordingly.

Savos_Saren · March 2018

I thought ZoS was going to do a "Balance Update" at some point... for all classes. Didn't Wrobel or Rich Lambert mention that they wanted more defined skill trees? Much like how Warden has a clearly defined Damage, Healer, and Tank skill tree. Templar is somewhat close to that... but NB, Sorcs, and DKs have their abilities spread all over their three skill lines.

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Quite honestly because they dont bring much to the table as healers. They only have two actual healing skills (cauterize and obsidian shard) both of which are pretty terrible compared to just about every other heal in the game. They only get major mending for a scant few seconds after using igneous shield, which scales off of health and no longer provides a substantial defensive benefit to anyone other than the user.

I ran my DK as a healer for quite a while last year just to give it a try, and was pretty disappointed in the results. They offer no real benefit to a group, while a templar or warden or even nightblade healer provides more buffs, more powerful healing, and typically better damage on top of those.

They done a few adjustments to do healer skills past 4 patches. Still healing can be a lot more then healing skills. They still have molten armaments?

But yes...more discussion for lesser know class/role and their current issues and gameplay. Maybe this will help inspire soultions for them?

molten armaments is used for its %40 heavy attack damage bonus, and the bonus is for the caster only, it does not benefit group members.

ak_pvp · March 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I thought ZoS was going to do a "Balance Update" at some point... for all classes. Didn't Wrobel or Rich Lambert mention that they wanted more defined skill trees? Much like how Warden has a clearly defined Damage, Healer, and Tank skill tree. Templar is somewhat close to that... but NB, Sorcs, and DKs have their abilities spread all over their three skill lines.

Class balance patch is Summerset. Whilst I dount they will full on split the trees, they seem to be going heavily for any class any role. Just look at the so far psijic tree, aoe root, ohshit resource return ult, and meditate resource return. Its safe to say the chapters will be the big balance patches, like morrow last year.

driosketch · March 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I thought ZoS was going to do a "Balance Update" at some point... for all classes. Didn't Wrobel or Rich Lambert mention that they wanted more defined skill trees? Much like how Warden has a clearly defined Damage, Healer, and Tank skill tree. Templar is somewhat close to that... but NB, Sorcs, and DKs have their abilities spread all over their three skill lines.

They want to do that. I think it would be a bad idea. You would need to break a lot of skills in a line to shoehorn them into roles they where never designed for. Like the sorc pet tree, would that become you heals tree or the tank tree? What about the dps in that tree?

Back to OP, the healing tools for DKs, for what there is, are more recent additions. Most veterans players with a DK have them spec'd as a tank or DPS.

Secondly, magicka DPS DKs have fallen out of favor with much of the community. Just about any magic DPS can toss a restro staff on the back bar and become an off heals, for those times when you couldn't find a temp healer, (later other classes as tools improved), for your pledge run.

A full healer setup is going to be less common for a class, when a) there are fewer magicka builds of the class, and b) when the trade off versus doing other roles is so low, especially with a shortage of tanks.

lucky_Sage · March 2018

Igneus not sclalesing with magicka and stone fist heal is sucks
I've play reworks of dragonknight class that would make did healers seem appealing and give a reason to bring into a group