ak_pvp wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

@ak_pvp

I think it was prety clear what i meant by scaling. Especially when i was talking about ur suggestion of making block scale better. Shields are not overtuned in 1vX man. I really dont know how else to say to you. You dont even play the class and u are making random assumptions. Again, shieldstacking is the issue and the way sorc is designed. And that is prevalent in a 1v1 situation. And yes i want Zaan entirely reworked. Just like i want shieldstacking reworked. That doesnt mean that individual shields are OP with the exception of harness and thats not even because of its shield size.

Streak root removal does not make it OP or roots useless. You can root them again. They cant spam streak forever. The class is supposed to be super mobile and all this change will do is make mobility a little better mostly in 1vX situations. Whats so bad with that.

I havent taken anything personally and its not about me not wanting nerfs. I have stated in numerous threads about justified sorc nerfs and i can list them here for you if you want. You'd be surprised and probably wonder if im serious. And the term overbuffs is a very subjective term. When you are talking about entire reworks of classes there are going to be disagreements and that applies to ur thread about DKs and Joy's thread about Templars. Just because you dont view ur suggestions as overbuffs it doesnt mean that others dont. The issue is about the nature of these type of threads and u jumping in and completely derailing it with statements like "buff me nerf everything", "sorc will be OP" because u disagree on a couple of points. Especially when u dont even play the class and ur knowledge is fairly limited when it comes to it.

I dont agree with everything you said regarding DKs either. However i did not jump to the thread to start the drama cause
other people have a deeper understanding when it comes to the class and because that is the exact opposite of what these threads are about. Which is to underline class issues and class overhaul in general. Not the one or two random points people may or may not disagree with.

As a general, when I say shields, I mean stacking, but the whole thing has a few issues, namely no debuffs, no status effects. I don't think there should be a penalty on the straight stacking, since its cost/effectivity drops. 1vX with X being the shield users, 1 being the me. I can deal with shields in a 1v1, despite them being pretty strong because the way to deal with shields is high pressure, or wait for an opening. Maintaining high pressure or an opening in a 1vX is hard, the 30k health tank might be annoying, but I can dot him, debuff him and then burst.

The thing is with this, is yeah, its a few things that I disagree with about buffing, and that Is what I voiced. Never once did I say. Don't buff sorcs. But you commented on my post about how my changes are apparently worse than OPs, and they probably aren't, I am sure you disagree with some, but comparatively, the buffs I ask for, I explained and offered counterbalance OP didn't. If you disagree with some, then feedback is appreciated. (Note: I'd probably keep pulse exempt, since its more beamy and an open counter, but not bird or something like shade.)

And its not like I am inexperienced. I've played the game long enough to play and know the classes, (bar NB, I don't like meta chasing, and hiding, despite it probably being the most effective solo class) and even if I play 2 max now, it doesn't mean I don't know how changes affect them/meta.

Its hardly random assumptions to say that adding two/3 slots, and buffing rune, frags, streak, negate. ults, possible sustain (though he only named extra mag on masters, which isn't sustain?) all without changes would probably make sorcs OP. But then OP felt fine nerfing other things, again, some I agree with, some I don't. (I mean DKs with valkyn spamming corrosive?)

That is what started it. My ENTIRE point was that this is too much buffs, and not enough to balance them, but conviniently nerfs for others, hence why the OP came off more as a buff me thread. I am not alone in the thought either. My complaints are not just "sorcs OP," which I feel like you may be taking this as, but instead don't make sorcs OP.

You say stacking but you want counters to shields in general which nerfs individual shields. A 10k shield that costs 3k-4k doesnt need a defile. Thats the exact same route ZOS took with battle spirit. Just a straight nerf to every shield completely destroying half of the shields in the game while not really addressing the issue. A straight nerf to their power just reinforces the need to shieldstack even more while basically completely destroying any normal build that doesnt abuse them. Thats the exact opposite of what we need. And shields dont need a nerf because Xv1 sorcs are frustrating. Xv1 DKs spamming roots and loading me with a million dots while blocking forever are also frustrating to fight against. That doesnt mean dots and talons need a nerf. It doesnt even make any sense.

Its not about being inexperienced in the game. You can have plenty of experience when it comes to the game in general and how classes generally work. However, to have a deep understanding about how the class functions in detail you have to actually play it.

When rune changes were announced you complained and for good reason because obviously a CC that ignores every defence is strong. However sorcs told you including me from the beginning that the ability will not be used. You also dont understand the issues with streak. You just know that u can streak and therefore it should be fine. If you actually played the class you would know about the issues with terrain and not being able to streak to a direction you want. This is not to bash you about being clueless in the game. Its just a simple fact that you dont have a deep understanding when it comes to the class. Go play the class extensively (ull also prob like it cause for once ull have mobility and instantly smash potatoes with burst) and u will understand that streak will definitely not be OP and what a shield defile means in a 1vX situation.

My initial comment wasnt about ur suggestions being worse than the OP or whether ur suggestions are bad. It was about showing you ur bias cause they are actually very similar. They are massive buffs across the board. That includes joy's suggestions as well. Of course they will look like overbuffs to some people. And my other point was also about the way you disagreed. As in basically attempting to derail the thread by just starting off with the "this is just buff me nerf everything else". Which isnt even true cause OP's suggestions (not related to sorcs) were about controversial issues torturing PVP for quite some time (procs, itemization) and not just blatant ridiculous nerf attempts to everything so his class becomes super OP.

Fair enough, different strokes. My ideas for balance are more "counters" but not bird/shieldbreaker level counters where it cannot be outplayed. Roots can be countered, block can be countered with dots and unblockables, which don't feel bad to be countered by. Pumping everything into a shield and the sorc laughing it off is a bit

Rune cage was a strong change, and I am willing to bet if they didn't give it a 76% cost increase, and it wasn't clunky, that it'd be used. Then they nerfed frags, which was an awful idea, which I mentioned. I know what a shield defile means, and that isn't a great idea because how defiles work, but a counter none the less is needed. I don't think nerfs to people investing a lot are needed, like blazing tanks or full stury glyphed permablockers, its sort of game dumbing.

I have played the class, pre morrow when pets were made a little less bad and I know of the streak issues, that said the physics changes are necessary. The root changes are fair. I actually didn't like the class, surprise, the offense, pets aside were samey and a little boring. Curse, pet damage, fury, frags. The occasional pulse. It was a really bound down class to its strengths, as oppose to a MagDK which can be played very differently depending on your setup.

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Oh, actually, remember when bound armor actually became daedric armor? That was pretty cool.

elijafire wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Please consider this a short list of issues I will bring to the table as your Sorcerer Class Representative.

Crystal Fragment Issues
Many fights are won or lost depending on how often our Fragments proc, or whether or not we have a proc at critical moments in the fight. With the accumulative damage and stun nerfs, this has never been more true than today. I personally no longer enjoy this heavy RNG aspect of sorcerers only hard hitting ability in today's game. There are also issues with cast time abilities becoming instant cast which I will cover in this post.

Crystal Fragment Suggestions
Increase the proc chance and/or make procs possible regardless of which bar you or your Fragments are on, like Assassin's Will. Alternatively make Fragments work similar to Assassin's Will with a guaranteed proc every 3-4 light attacks. Note this does not mean we want to reapply a "frag buff" like Assassin's Will, as we do not get Minor Berzerk. Fragment procs need to last much longer, so that they are there for us when we need them. Make Fragments truly instant cast. You cannot weave a light attack Fragment as fluidly or with the same speed as you can any other instant cast ability such as flame reach or force pulse. This feels very clunky and combersome and has persisted for many years. Consider reverting the damage nerf. Finally, consider increasing the travel speed of Fragments to that of Javelin or Assassin's Will. Why are we still providing counter play for stuns that no longer exist?

Streak Issues
Streak has also suffered many accumulative nerfs, most of them without any patch notes, so people who are new to Sorcerer or who do not main Sorcerer do not understand. While rooted we can no longer streak in the direction of our camera, we are forced to streak in the direction we were facing when we were rooted. Your momentum is no longer maintained while using Streak and it is now literally a self root. At the end of every Streak no matter how fast you were going or how flat the terrain, you will hit an invisible brick wall and slowly fall to the ground. Streaking up hill effectively halves the distance, and streaking down hill is suicide due to the self root, slow fall, and tumble at the bottom effectively silencing you. AKA, all of Cyrodiil. All of this on top of the removal of our lightning cost reduction passive and the crippling accumulative cost increase has effectively gutted the ability. With the prevalence of hard hitting low cost gap closers, all of them with charge snairs attached, and some of them with additional longer lasting snairs, melee players have no problem whatsoever remaining permanently glued to your face. In fact some will open gaps purposefully just to close them again because they hit so hard, come pre-loaded with guaranteed crits, empowers, CCs, snairs, dots, and can be stacked with things like Dawnbreaker for additional burst.

Streak Suggestions
Reduce the accumulative cost increase to that of dodge roll, remove the self root, and allow us to streak in the direction of our camera with no exceptions. Additionally we would like to use the skill more offensively. Consider removing the Streak Fatigue debuff when we do damage with the ability.

Rune Issues
The latest adjustments and patch notes for these morphs were very misleading to those who don't main Sorcerer or who haven't used the abilities in the past. Both morphs have always went through block and dodge roll, yet they were much cheaper and the CCs lasted much longer. Both morphs were in fact extremely nerfed. The main issue with these abilities is that they are not truly instant cast like abilities that were designed to be instant cast in the first place, similar to Fragment procs. In fact both morphs used to have a significant cast time. Many times you can Meteor and immediately cast Rune yet due to the ability originally being designed with a significant cast time, a subtle cast time still exists and your opponent will have time to block the Meteor before the ability applies the CC. Whether it is the animation, the underlying cast time, code, or some combination of all three, I have been playing Sorcerer for 4 years and I know what instant cast abilities feel like. Rune and Fragment procs are not instant cast. @ZOS, I know someone up there understands what I am talking about, and I know all of you Sorcerers do.

Rune Suggestions
Most importantly, fix the cast times or whatever is causing the delay on these abilities. Additionally, consider reducing the cost to that of CCs that also do damage, close gaps, apply major defile, maim, snairs, etc... Magicka Sorcerer is already struggling with sustain like no other class which I will explain later. The extreme cost is not justified.

Pets & Toggle Issues
They don't work open world. They get stuck, and die. They take way too many ability slots.

Pets & Toggle Suggestions
Please just make pets like Night Blade Shades. Make the pets along with Bound Armor require only one slot.

Overload Issues
Simply getting into Overload, before you even use it, costs a global cooldown. Overload heavy attacks do terrible damage. Overload attacks do not proc weapon enchants. Weapon abilities are not available while in overload.

Overload Suggestion
If we are meant to be the toggle class juggling three bars, then getting to and from our Overload bar should be as fluid and responsive as any other weapon swap. Remove the global cooldown from simply activating our Overload bar. Allow Overload attacks to proc our weapon enchants. Consider allowing us to use our weapon abilities while in overload. Increase the damage of Overload heavy attacks.

The Prevalence Of Hard Counters
Reflective Scale, Eclipse, Crystallized Shield, Defensive Stance, Sword & Board Ultimate, Shield Breaker, Oblivion Damage, Shattering Blows, Snairs, Gap Closers, Purge, Major Evasion, Dodge Roll. Additionally, almost every NPC in Cyrodiil & Imperial City spams unbreakable Eclipse and perfect Negates.

Hard Counter Suggestions
Keep all of these in mind before heavy handing the Sorcerer/Magicka nerfs again. Make NPC Eclipse breakable, and consider not making them so blatantly anti-magicka. Consider making negate also apply "Gravity" which also silences stamina players.

Magicka Ultimate Issues
All that magicka players have ever wanted was a single target instant ranged ultimate. We have no ultimates that even compare to Dawnbreaker, Leap, or Incapacitating Strike. Dawnbreaker is dirt cheap, AOE, a knock down, applies a powerful dot that's not ground based and does 20% more damage to Werewolves & Vampires. Incapacitating Strike is literally the hardest hitting ability in the game that also stuns, increases your damage by 20% for 6 seconds and applies Major Defile. Leap does 25% more pure fire damage to Sorcerers who have basically been forced into vampirism and also applies a damage shield for 103% of their max health. We have Meteor, Soul Assault, and Eye Of The Storm - none of which even come close. Soul Assault does not synergise well with a class that depends on damage shields to not get one shot, and you can literally just heal/block/shield through it while making yourself extremely vulnerable. Meteor is near impossible to land on anyone with fingers without a perfectly timed/lucky defensive rune and/or the Rune Prison's delay being fixed. Eye Of the Storm has been completely gutted. All of them besides Soul Assault are prohibitively expensive.

Magicka Ultimate Suggestions
Adjust a morph of Soul Assault or give us a Spell Crafting option to create a single target ranged instant cast ultimate. Make it blockable, make it dogeable, make it do less damage, and don't give it any additional effects but, for the love of god, give us a decent ultimate.

Heavy Armor Issues
Heavy armor sets are currently the best damage sets available to stamina characters today. This is completely and utterly broken.

Heavy Armor Suggestions
Completely rework and rethink sets like 7th legion and Fury. If you want to be tanky, be tanky, if you want to do damage, do damage. Under no circumstances should you ever have the best of both.

Sorcerer Sustain Issues
Mage CP points are no longer giving us max magicka and haven't for some time. That has been capped. New viable max magicka sets have been literally non existent, and our best max magicka set is very old, has been extremely nerfed, and relies on a pet. Alternative sets like Trainee, Destruction Mastery, and Ancient Grace have been quite purposefully nerfed into the ground. Our max magicka has been stagnant for some time. Our shields are not getting any bigger however damage has been consistently going up at a rapid pace, and with each CP cap increase we see more and more Shattering Blows. Damage point for damage point Shattering Blows far outweighs Bastion. This has forced us into shield spam which is very taxing on our sustain and reduces our damage output, allowing our opponents to put even more pressure on our sustain. The shield duration nerf has also caused us very serious sustain problems. Even when your opponent backs off to heal, dark deal, cloak, recover, we can not. We are forced to maintain these expensive 6 second wards indefinitely. Heavy attacking for resources does not synergise with our class like it does all of the other classes. We have to shield to protect the heavy attack, effectively spending any resources we hope to get before we get them. Additionally, by the time our heavy attack is complete our shield duration has almost expired. This is extremely dangerous and leaves us vulnerable. Our stamina dump is breakfree. We don't have the stamina pool or regen to maintain Dark Conversion and we run into the same issue as we have with heavy attacks, only worse. We are spending stamina and magicka for a net loss of resources. I could go on and on here. We are forced to drop a 5pc set bonus for a nerfed Master Stave just to sustain clench with the loss of our main CC... Our abilities are some of the most expensive abilities in the game... Poisons and Siphoner CP compound these issues even further...

Sorcerer Sustain Suggestions
Give Master Staves back their magicka. Give us better sets for god's sake and stop nerfing the only good sets we have. Here is what stamina gets... Why can't we have their magika counterparts?


Cancer Sets & Proc Sets
Troll king, Earthgore, Skoria, Zaan etc etc. Anything that is "casting" spells and abilities, some of them comparable to ultimates without you pressing any buttons, spending any global cooldowns, ultimate, resources, setting up any combos or otherwise even thinking about them is straight up cheese. If ever there was a point that PvP balance took a downward turn it was when they introduced proc and cancer sets. We've got Stamdens circling rocks in fury while a horde of potatoes is unknowingly turning them into a 7k weapon damage god of dawnbreaker. We've got Skoria Magblades & DKs spamming resto & corrosive ults on cooldown because they don't even need a damage ult. A meteor drops every 10 seconds for free. We've got gankblades who never actually fight, they just alchemst ambush incap selene proc new players all day. We've got permablocking magplars in the back mindlessly keeping their group of potatoes afloat with BoL, but when your outnumbered group takes a beating targeting them down, their earthgore procs and all hopes are lost. The game should be great, the combat system is like none other, yet this is what the game is now.

There are many more issues and suggestion I have to bring to the table but this post is long enough and I think it has covered most of the major issues. I encourage all of you to respond to this post with any other issues.

If I have earned your nomination then thank you for that. Please send an email to community@elderscrollsonline.com and nominate me for Sorcerer Class Representative. You can find the relevant thread here.

I'm okay with increasing the proc chance on my CF as long as you half the dmg.

Xeven wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Rune cage was a strong change, and I am willing to bet if they didn't give it a 76% cost increase, and it wasn't clunky, that it'd be used.

There was no "strong" change. They always went through block, their cost and duration were simply nerfed. That's it. Nobody knows this because no Sorcs ever use the abilities. We can't afford to spend any more global cooldowns that do no damage. In fact the only morph that saw any use was the defensive one after the shield duration nerf. We needed something to protect us from being ganked 24/7 since we could no longer ward for 20 seconds at a time.

The selected players should have a deep understanding of at least one class, with extensive knowledge involving abilities, itemization, solo and group play in both PvE and PvP scenarios.

Xeven wrote: »

Sorc VS NB - Main Issues:
Magicka NB our out-gunning us at our own game. It's sad but true, MagNB are better MagSorcs than MagSorcs. Skoria... Stamblades... 100% crit heals under cloak, and they are still getting 100% cloak dodge chance even when detected with pots.

Sorc VS Templar - Main Issues:
Power of Light > Jabs > Dawnbreaker while being snared to hell 24/7, and they can do this over and over because we can't apply any pressure. We can't Curse them and we are way too busy trying to not get double Dawnbreakered due to Power of Light. MagPlars... Similar issues but add Eclipse spam. Partially countered with our recently nerfed Immov pots but really, it's quite annoying having 100% of your DPS completely shut down every 5 seconds.

Sorc VS DK - Main Issues:
Being forced into Vampire is our main issue VS this class, also Skoria. That and our open world builds usually don't counter them very well. We really have to set up a certain way to defeat good MagDKs. I feel we perform pretty well vs StamDK.

Sorc VS Warden - Main Issues:
Crystal Shield is way too cheap, otherwise we perform fairly well vs both versions of this class if you know what you're doing.

Sorc VS Sorc - Main Issues:
Having major and minor buffs attached to wards could have fixed our main issue here, harness stacking. Unfortunately due to literally everyone having access to high burst now, we are forced to at least double stack. A Power of Light Dawnbreaker, Dizzy Leap, Subterranean Dawnbreaker, Ambush Incap etc literally have the power to take out a full Hardened and ALL of our health.