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Twilight Matriarch is terrible and useless

  • Mayrael
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    PvE wise matriarch is very good skill, though it would be realy nice to have separate health bar of pet to see its status. PvP? Well form my experience its dead 90% of a time when needed, it was better when attacks didn't worked as an attack command, in large scale pets were ordered to stick with me and it was working pretty well, but now its a joke :) If someone played Spiritmaster in Aion, then he knows how pets should be implemented in game :) - There were 4 types of pets, 1 tank(100% tank), 1tank/dd (66% tank, 34% dps), 1 dd(66%dd/34%tank) and 1 pure dd. All had the same skills but was altered by type of summon. Tank e.g. had powerfull AoE agro skill that when used smart, kept mobs on him allowing to solo things immposible for other classes. You could transfer damage you took to pet. You could buff pets so much that they was hitting a lot harder than your toon. Pets couldn't stuck on terrians, was always few steps behind you and you could be sure that you can relay on them. Managing pets in ESO is a nightmare when you experienced how it should be done.
    Edited by Mayrael on March 13, 2018 8:06AM
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • Beodamacsa
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    I have also noticed in this game the Bosses and or enemies instantly target the healers. I was doing 2 man runs of wayrest sewers and I was the healer and every single time on the last boss she would go me with a vengeance till i was dead.
    I have also noticed with my Twilight she gets targeted and killed when ever there's no tank taunting the boss/enemy. Seems the mechanic in this game is they go for healers first.
  • Sekero
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    Ozby wrote: »
    I have also noticed in this game the Bosses and or enemies instantly target the healers. I was doing 2 man runs of wayrest sewers and I was the healer and every single time on the last boss she would go me with a vengeance till i was dead.
    I have also noticed with my Twilight she gets targeted and killed when ever there's no tank taunting the boss/enemy. Seems the mechanic in this game is they go for healers first.

    I thought everyone goes for the healer first - I certainly do. Burn the healer down first and the rest will follow in short order. That's the first thing you learn in RPG school.
    Edited by Sekero on March 13, 2018 8:23AM
  • nryerson1025
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    i dont know about console but if you simply hold Y and right click, the pet stays put until you heavy attack
  • Tasear
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    Ozby wrote: »
    I have also noticed in this game the Bosses and or enemies instantly target the healers. I was doing 2 man runs of wayrest sewers and I was the healer and every single time on the last boss she would go me with a vengeance till i was dead.
    I have also noticed with my Twilight she gets targeted and killed when ever there's no tank taunting the boss/enemy. Seems the mechanic in this game is they go for healers first.

    Boss just jumps at people at random. Have to block or shield it.
  • VaranisArano
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    Ozby wrote: »
    I have also noticed in this game the Bosses and or enemies instantly target the healers. I was doing 2 man runs of wayrest sewers and I was the healer and every single time on the last boss she would go me with a vengeance till i was dead.
    I have also noticed with my Twilight she gets targeted and killed when ever there's no tank taunting the boss/enemy. Seems the mechanic in this game is they go for healers first.

    In the absence of a taunt, the boss aggros on whoever is hitting them with damage or heals. Since most healers are using HOTs, they tend to get aggro.

    If you don't like it, the answer is to talk to your tank about slotting an actual taunt that can actually hold boss aggro.
  • Priyasekarssk
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    Sinolai wrote: »
    It is great heal but I agree it dies way too oten. I call her "Twilight betrayer" myself. Still valuable healing tool that saves lots of lives in 3xdd + tank pledge runs.
    Beardimus wrote: »
    pteam wrote: »
    Those of You guys suggesting to use a shield 100% of the time in combat are ridiculous.

    Let’s do some simple math. If you cast a 4000 cost Magicka shield that lasts 6 seconds every 6 seconds for 30 seconds that’s 20,000 Magicka. Over 1minute that’s 40,000 Magicka. Any dps who is using 40k Magicka every minute to keep a shied up and using that as a skill every 1 out of 6 seconds is going to have no Magicka left and terrible dps....

    Shielding is for when your taking enough damage the shield needs using. How many dps tests on a skeleton have you seen where they keep their shield on 100% uptime?

    Can you please quote this on every NerfSorc thread when they say we are Triple stacking all day long.....
    Ozby wrote: »
    I have also noticed in this game the Bosses and or enemies instantly target the healers. I was doing 2 man runs of wayrest sewers and I was the healer and every single time on the last boss she would go me with a vengeance till i was dead.
    I have also noticed with my Twilight she gets targeted and killed when ever there's no tank taunting the boss/enemy. Seems the mechanic in this game is they go for healers first.

    Yes. boss go after Twilight first if no one taunting. Often its killed in 1 hit by boss. Pets health really needs good buff excluding shadow pets for NB. Pathetic design. PVP forget Twilight .
  • Priyasekarssk
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    Ozby wrote: »
    I have also noticed in this game the Bosses and or enemies instantly target the healers. I was doing 2 man runs of wayrest sewers and I was the healer and every single time on the last boss she would go me with a vengeance till i was dead.
    I have also noticed with my Twilight she gets targeted and killed when ever there's no tank taunting the boss/enemy. Seems the mechanic in this game is they go for healers first.

    In the absence of a taunt, the boss aggros on whoever is hitting them with damage or heals. Since most healers are using HOTs, they tend to get aggro.

    If you don't like it, the answer is to talk to your tank about slotting an actual taunt that can actually hold boss aggro.

    What about solo boss fights ?
  • Priyasekarssk
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Ozby wrote: »
    I have also noticed in this game the Bosses and or enemies instantly target the healers. I was doing 2 man runs of wayrest sewers and I was the healer and every single time on the last boss she would go me with a vengeance till i was dead.
    I have also noticed with my Twilight she gets targeted and killed when ever there's no tank taunting the boss/enemy. Seems the mechanic in this game is they go for healers first.

    Boss just jumps at people at random. Have to block or shield it.

    No. You are wrong. Unless you have clanfear or tank, most cases bosses will target healers or healing pets first. Just go after WB in solo and see for yourself.
    Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 13, 2018 6:37PM
  • Priyasekarssk
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    PvE wise matriarch is very good skill, though it would be realy nice to have separate health bar of pet to see its status. PvP? Well form my experience its dead 90% of a time when needed, it was better when attacks didn't worked as an attack command, in large scale pets were ordered to stick with me and it was working pretty well, but now its a joke :) If someone played Spiritmaster in Aion, then he knows how pets should be implemented in game :) - There were 4 types of pets, 1 tank(100% tank), 1tank/dd (66% tank, 34% dps), 1 dd(66%dd/34%tank) and 1 pure dd. All had the same skills but was altered by type of summon. Tank e.g. had powerfull AoE agro skill that when used smart, kept mobs on him allowing to solo things immposible for other classes. You could transfer damage you took to pet. You could buff pets so much that they was hitting a lot harder than your toon. Pets couldn't stuck on terrians, was always few steps behind you and you could be sure that you can relay on them. Managing pets in ESO is a nightmare when you experienced how it should be done.

    No PVE boss fights matriarch need lot of care. Bosses will target matriarch first often 1 hit if you dont have clanfear/tank. Pets are very poor.
    Edited by Priyasekarssk on March 13, 2018 6:40PM
  • rafaelcsmaia
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    I wouldn't say she is useless, the problem lies with certain unavoidable mechanics with pets (serpent world shaper for instance) that one shots them and you cant really avoid.

    Gotta give props to ZOS tho, on scalecaller peak that nasty poison one shots doesn't hit pets, thats how other one shot mechanics should be.
  • Morvane
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    Davor wrote: »
    Don't they have health bars over their heads? Or do you mean else where on the screen? If so, yeah I agree, would be nice to see it else where on the screen since lots of times I never know where she is.

    I think templars and wardens needs to be prohibited from postins in sorcs threads
    DC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
    @morvayn54, PC/EU
  • VaranisArano
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    Ozby wrote: »
    I have also noticed in this game the Bosses and or enemies instantly target the healers. I was doing 2 man runs of wayrest sewers and I was the healer and every single time on the last boss she would go me with a vengeance till i was dead.
    I have also noticed with my Twilight she gets targeted and killed when ever there's no tank taunting the boss/enemy. Seems the mechanic in this game is they go for healers first.

    In the absence of a taunt, the boss aggros on whoever is hitting them with damage or heals. Since most healers are using HOTs, they tend to get aggro.

    If you don't like it, the answer is to talk to your tank about slotting an actual taunt that can actually hold boss aggro.

    What about solo boss fights ?

    In a solo boss fight...I dunno. I sort of expect that I have aggro. Unless I'm using the clannfear on a sorc pet, it seems to me like there's only one person in the fight to take aggro...

    Or am I missing something here?

    Edited to add: here's a more indepth discussion of how aggro works in the absence of a taunt. its generally about "who hit the boss/mob last" and healers tend to hit bosses/mobs often with healing ticks from HOTs and spamming heals. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391895/a-guide-to-aggro/p1
    Edited by VaranisArano on March 13, 2018 8:58PM
  • Malnutrition
    Malnutrition
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    BRRRAAAAIIIINNNSSSS
  • Twenty0zTsunami
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    learn to control your pet. if its off doing something and you arent aware of whaere, or why or what? thats a problem with you, not the pet. There are basic "attack" and "stop attack" commands for the pet. look into them.
  • pod88kk
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    Actually it's pretty awesome in the back room of vmol
  • Priyasekarssk
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    learn to control your pet. if its off doing something and you arent aware of whaere, or why or what? thats a problem with you, not the pet. There are basic "attack" and "stop attack" commands for the pet. look into them.

    Please stop commenting, before understanding what OP was telling. Its not about controlling pets.
  • FrancisCrawford
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    pteam wrote: »
    Those of You guys suggesting to use a shield 100% of the time in combat are ridiculous.

    Let’s do some simple math. If you cast a 4000 cost Magicka shield that lasts 6 seconds every 6 seconds for 30 seconds that’s 20,000 Magicka. Over 1minute that’s 40,000 Magicka. Any dps who is using 40k Magicka every minute to keep a shied up and using that as a skill every 1 out of 6 seconds is going to have no Magicka left and terrible dps....

    Shielding is for when your taking enough damage the shield needs using. How many dps tests on a skeleton have you seen where they keep their shield on 100% uptime?

    Empowered Ward last 10 seconds. It also provides some magicka back to the group.
  • FrancisCrawford
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    @LadyLethalla this thread was made before pets were improved. Like doubling the resist they have, from 9100 to 18200 and making it so they can't be one hit from aoes and targeting the enemy that you are heavy attacking, etc etc. So keep that in mind.

    Edit: just saw your edit. Clanfear is useless. You would be better off with the scamp. Does way more damage and still tanks just as good.

    I haven't tested Clannfear for a while. It used to have a highly reliable taunt, while other pets didn't. Has that changed, even in solo situations?
  • FrancisCrawford
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    I wish I could keep my pets next to me, but because I'm on console they are very very stupid

    A couple of these problems are lessened on the PC, especially via add-ons. A buff tracker (I use S'rendarr) can be a good guide as to whether the pets are alive. And PetDismiss instantly gets rid of them when you want (e.g. in towns).
  • LadyLethalla
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    @LadyLethalla this thread was made before pets were improved. Like doubling the resist they have, from 9100 to 18200 and making it so they can't be one hit from aoes and targeting the enemy that you are heavy attacking, etc etc. So keep that in mind.

    Edit: just saw your edit. Clanfear is useless. You would be better off with the scamp. Does way more damage and still tanks just as good.

    I haven't tested Clannfear for a while. It used to have a highly reliable taunt, while other pets didn't. Has that changed, even in solo situations?

    I can only speak for myself as I've not discussed this with any other pet sorc players... but, I have used both.

    The Clannfear will not only take the boss's aggro but will also turn him around just as a good tank player will. The Scamp just runs to either the nearest enemy or the enemy I'm heavy attacking - as I'm on console that's as much "control" as I have over my pets. So it may be true that the Scamp does more damage (and that's IF I can pulse it... with the lag I have I'm hard pressed to keep my shields up enough to survive, let alone use the Scamp pulse) but as the Clannfear stops me taking at least some of the boss's damage I find it a much more useful morph.
    x-TallyCat-x // PC EU DC - For the Covenant! // ESO Platinum trophy - 16th May 2017.
    Melbourne Australia - the land of Potato Internet.WTB ESO OCEANIC SERVER
  • Twenty0zTsunami
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    learn to control your pet. if its off doing something and you arent aware of whaere, or why or what? thats a problem with you, not the pet. There are basic "attack" and "stop attack" commands for the pet. look into them.

    Please stop commenting, before understanding what OP was telling. Its not about controlling pets.

    really? becuase it sounded to me like he and others both mentioned how often they lose track of their pet and when they need it, it's dead.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    @LadyLethalla this thread was made before pets were improved. Like doubling the resist they have, from 9100 to 18200 and making it so they can't be one hit from aoes and targeting the enemy that you are heavy attacking, etc etc. So keep that in mind.

    Edit: just saw your edit. Clanfear is useless. You would be better off with the scamp. Does way more damage and still tanks just as good.

    I haven't tested Clannfear for a while. It used to have a highly reliable taunt, while other pets didn't. Has that changed, even in solo situations?

    i wish people would stop using the work taunt in this context, pets do not have a taunt. they might get aggro but that is not a taunt. the reason the scamp is better is because you kill the boss faster with it. it is like 15-20% of my dps as a magsorc. you will lose so much dps that it just does not make sense to use the other morph. ever as a tank, the heal from the clannfear is worthless, it costs too much, 7k mag, and only heals you and the pet and you have to double bar it.
  • Maura_Neysa
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    I've done many a skin run with a friend who Sorc Heals, so I'm quite certain the Twilight is good. It sounds to me like your Twilight awearness needs some work, as the Twilight is no where near the meat head the scamp is. If anything its problem is it finds the one enemy in a corner and hides with it away from the fight rather than follow you. Just make sure you HA regularly to keep it agro'd to the target you actually want it on.
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Maura_Neysa
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    Before you get too excited extolling the many virtues of your Twilight Matriarch, this is a Necro'd thead.

    Damn, true enough.
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • FrancisCrawford
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    i wish people would stop using the work taunt in this context, pets do not have a taunt. they might get aggro but that is not a taunt. the reason the scamp is better is because you kill the boss faster with it. it is like 15-20% of my dps as a magsorc. you will lose so much dps that it just does not make sense to use the other morph. ever as a tank, the heal from the clannfear is worthless, it costs too much, 7k mag, and only heals you and the pet and you have to double bar it.

    I have soloed MANY world bosses, dungeon bosses, and Maelstrom Arena bosses with the Clannfear holding aggro for the ENTIRE fight, after the first few seconds (in the first few seconds aggro was usually held by the Matriarch, if I had her out too). This also occasionally happened when I was duoing a dungeon but my duo partner had died. To me, that's taunting.

    However, I haven't done this RECENTLY, because in fact I did change to the Volatile Familiar morph on all three of my magicka sorcerers. Hence my question as to the CURRENT state of the Clannfear.

    Also, ZoS has used the word "taunt" to describe melee pet behavior in patch notes.

    Admittedly, I've never been sure whether there was a real difference in how the two morphs held aggro, since I never tested that nor saw a conclusive claim from somebody else who did.
    Edited by FrancisCrawford on March 14, 2018 11:47AM
  • VaranisArano
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    learn to control your pet. if its off doing something and you arent aware of whaere, or why or what? thats a problem with you, not the pet. There are basic "attack" and "stop attack" commands for the pet. look into them.

    Please stop commenting, before understanding what OP was telling. Its not about controlling pets.

    No offense, but the OP was writing back in July 2017. This is a necro'd thread. Even from the July portion of the thread, people have been talking about controlling the pets and how their aggro works, so its not exactly off topic.

    If we are focusing only on the OP, the answer is simple: Your Matriarch is dead all the time? You should be using Hardened/Empowered Ward and casting the heal regularly to keep the Matriarch's health up.

    All that was answered way back in July. But then the thread got necro'ed and we're rehashing everything. Redirecting people back to the OP is as pointless as me reminding people that this is a necro'd thread and Mannimarco approves of thread necromancy. Don't encourage Mannimarco.
  • VaranisArano
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    The pets can hold aggro, but they can't override a player taunt.

    If you are using Puncture, Inner Fire, Frost staff heavy attack with the Trifocus passive or a charge ability while wearing the Tormentor set, you should have no problem holding aggro with your taunt no matter what pet is being used. The pet will not override or interfere with an actual taunt ability (which, yeah, means it isn't an actual taunt, because using a second taunt would cause the boss/mob to get taunt immunity and you'd know if that happened, but it doesn't therefore the pet doesn't have an actual taunt.)

    That being said, if you aren't using an actual taunt ability listed above, your pet will do a pretty good job of holding aggro, especially the clannfear.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    The pets can hold aggro, but they can't override a player taunt.

    If you are using Puncture, Inner Fire, Frost staff heavy attack with the Trifocus passive or a charge ability while wearing the Tormentor set, you should have no problem holding aggro with your taunt no matter what pet is being used. The pet will not override or interfere with an actual taunt ability (which, yeah, means it isn't an actual taunt, because using a second taunt would cause the boss/mob to get taunt immunity and you'd know if that happened, but it doesn't therefore the pet doesn't have an actual taunt.)

    That being said, if you aren't using an actual taunt ability listed above, your pet will do a pretty good job of holding aggro, especially the clannfear.

    Wait a moment -- is taunt immunity a real thing at this time? How does it work?
    Edited by FrancisCrawford on March 14, 2018 7:50PM
  • QuebraRegra
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    Just started a SORC for the first time...they friggin wander off... I need an alarm to tell me when they've gone off an gotten killed again (change the skill bar icon/colour, etc., audio shriek, etc.).

    When you think you have a heal coming and find the pet is dead... FAIL.
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