Here an NB, there an NB, Everywhere an NB!

Minno · March 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

If I can't stack annulment + hardened ward, on my Sorc without Resto staff,

How would you expect it to survive?

What double slot Hardened Ward?

You'd have to give Sorc another shield or a spot heal to not further pigeonhole the class @Lexxypwns

Actually, as mag warden and mageblade show you can easily survive with a shield+HoTs. Boosting Surge healing, adding minor protection to boundless and Minor maim to targets hit by hurrican and probably boost the healing from Dark Magic passive would give sorc a defensive playstyle that slots in between mageblade and mag warden while maintaining its offensive playstyle, albeit with larger offensive windows that compensate its generally low/predictable damage

Hrm, I like this total package, would be a far more active sorc...

If only. I like this idea!

Imo, this would bring sorc into line, decreasing its pure defense 1v1 while adding healing and increasing offensive windows should make it overall more competitive in 1v1 and encouraging a more active and aggressive playstyle.

Similar balances changes for Templar; except sub the minor protection suggestion above with speed and keep the strong hot.

Feanor · March 2018

Personally I would like to see Efficient Purge to be really efficient. It’s not at the moment. It costs over 4k in noCP on my character.

The high cost has 2 consequences: a) a purge monopoly for Templars (good, I’m all for classes having unique aspects) and b) purge being an option only if you have a Templar or a dedicated purge spambot in your group.

If the cost of efficient purge would be lowered to a more manageable 1.5k or something it would be a real option (also to deal with the rampant snares) while it would compete with other skills on tight bars.

Of course it would probably make stamina characters stronger because they could revert to running Rally then. Rally would need a slight rebalance then as well.

As for Templars I’m totally for reverting the changes to repentance and shards. They need more unique things. Also overhaul Sorc.

BohnT · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Personally I would like to see Efficient Purge to be really efficient. It’s not at the moment. It costs over 4k in noCP on my character.

The high cost has 2 consequences: a) a purge monopoly for Templars (good, I’m all for classes having unique aspects) and b) purge being an option only if you have a Templar or a dedicated purge spambot in your group.

If the cost of efficient purge would be lowered to a more manageable 1.5k or something it would be a real option (also to deal with the rampant snares) while it would compete with other skills on tight bars.

Of course it would probably make stamina characters stronger because they could revert to running Rally then. Rally would need a slight rebalance then as well.

As for Templars I’m totally for reverting the changes to repentance and shards. They need more unique things. Also overhaul Sorc.

Giving everyone purge is a very bad idea as we'd have huge problens with balance some classes simply shouldn't have access to purge.

Imo they have to balance things on the other side and make things counterable without purge being the only way.
Things like Poisons need to be tuned down.
Defiles need to be nerfed across the board.
PotL should only stack the damage the stamplar itself is doing.
High damage sets like skoria or Zaan need easy hardcounters which completely negate their damage with little effort (dodging, walking out of a not moving AoE, bashing the wearer (thanks for running the interrupt mechanics wrobel)

What everyone should have is a snare removal tool in their class toolkit which has different durations from the playstyle of each class. (Templar and Warden have less snare immunity to prevent making them just as mobile as other classes)

For templar i just want some good passives, when you compare templar passives to warden, sorcs, nightblades you just laugh how bad or useless some of your passives are.
A working class cc would be a dream but i also fear a new uprising of CC spamming healbots.

I'd be more for the implementation of 2 CCs (1 magicka & stamina) which are part of a non class/ weapon skill line (maybe mages and fighters guild)
Which are blockable and dodgeable but give everyone a good CC for every build (especially the combinations of DW+ 2h, Bow+ 2h or 1h&s+ resto, DW+resto for magicka lack a good CC)

Feanor · March 2018

@BohnT

Clearly the intention was that everyone should have access to purge. It's always said on these forums you don't get to complain if you don't run the counters. I agree to that if the counter is viable. Purge isn't in the current state.

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Personally I would like to see Efficient Purge to be really efficient. It’s not at the moment. It costs over 4k in noCP on my character.

The high cost has 2 consequences: a) a purge monopoly for Templars (good, I’m all for classes having unique aspects) and b) purge being an option only if you have a Templar or a dedicated purge spambot in your group.

If the cost of efficient purge would be lowered to a more manageable 1.5k or something it would be a real option (also to deal with the rampant snares) while it would compete with other skills on tight bars.

Of course it would probably make stamina characters stronger because they could revert to running Rally then. Rally would need a slight rebalance then as well.

As for Templars I’m totally for reverting the changes to repentance and shards. They need more unique things. Also overhaul Sorc.

Giving everyone purge is a very bad idea as we'd have huge problens with balance some classes simply shouldn't have access to purge.

Imo they have to balance things on the other side and make things counterable without purge being the only way.
Things like Poisons need to be tuned down.
Defiles need to be nerfed across the board.
PotL should only stack the damage the stamplar itself is doing.
High damage sets like skoria or Zaan need easy hardcounters which completely negate their damage with little effort (dodging, walking out of a not moving AoE, bashing the wearer (thanks for running the interrupt mechanics wrobel)

What everyone should have is a snare removal tool in their class toolkit which has different durations from the playstyle of each class. (Templar and Warden have less snare immunity to prevent making them just as mobile as other classes)

For templar i just want some good passives, when you compare templar passives to warden, sorcs, nightblades you just laugh how bad or useless some of your passives are.
A working class cc would be a dream but i also fear a new uprising of CC spamming healbots.

I'd be more for the implementation of 2 CCs (1 magicka & stamina) which are part of a non class/ weapon skill line (maybe mages and fighters guild)
Which are blockable and dodgeable but give everyone a good CC for every build (especially the combinations of DW+ 2h, Bow+ 2h or 1h&s+ resto, DW+resto for magicka lack a good CC)

at the current stage the game is going, I can see people running purge no matter how cost-inefficient it is,
There are soooooooo many things that can be only countered by purge its insane now.

technohic · March 2018

Extended ritual isn’t all that cheap anymore either. As a Stamplar; you have to watch and try to use it when you really need it. But now with you needing it for so many things; it can be too late or not remove everything.

I always felt we have wayyy to many buffs and debuffs in this game. It’s only getting worse with procs.

BohnT · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@BohnT

Clearly the intention was that everyone should have access to purge. It's always said on these forums you don't get to complain if you don't run the counters. I agree to that if the counter is viable. Purge isn't in the current state.

Yeah but purge not only offers to counter the things which really need a counter but also many "less dangerous" things would get completely obsolete if everyone had a purge.
Magdk would go from strong to the trash bin instantly
Dot builds could also be removed completely
Debuffs not coming from duroks or wizards (which get reapplied every second) would only serve as a time consumer for the enemy to keep the stronger effects longer on them.

The things which are only counterable by purge need more counterplay as purge itself is just too powerful.
When cloak was purging Dots we saw how ridiculous nbs were, a nb in the current patch with a viable purge is my nightmare right after spellcrafting and more Xv1 tools

BohnT · March 2018

technohic wrote: »

Extended ritual isn’t all that cheap anymore either. As a Stamplar; you have to watch and try to use it when you really need it. But now with you needing it for so many things; it can be too late or not remove everything.

I always felt we have wayyy to many buffs and debuffs in this game. It’s only getting worse with procs.

^This

People only see their view on the Combat and must see the templar purging.
On my stamplar purge costs 4.2k mag and i can't count the time i removed the most useless debuffs in the world while things like Zaan, cost poisons (it's a nightmare having magicka cost poisons on you and you try to purge), major defile, PotL etc.
I think purge is a strong but still balanced ability, it's expensive enough to prevent it from being spammed outside of zergs.

Dottzgaming · March 2018

thankyourat wrote: »

I find it funny that a lot of the ESO community think stamina nightblade is a little OP when in reality the Magicka variant is the one that's top tier. Especially 1v1 really only mag dk and wardens are better. Stamblade is really a middle of the pack class like mag sorc. Both get so much hate on the forums for no real reason.

As for no cp I will agree stamblades are stronger but I still don't have any problems fighting them there either. I think nightblade in general is just popular. not because it's good but because stamblade in particular is just easy to pick up and play. Against experienced opponents though it wouldn't be a class i would want to use.

The bolded point above is what i agree with from this post.

The meme from Skyrim and past TES games was "all roads lead to stealth archer". I honestly think the reason NBs are so popular is because new players think theyre a cool class and see them as that stealthy assassin from the past TES games and they want to recreate it in ESO - whether it be magicka or stamina based. So many new players i personally know go to NB for that reason.

Could be wrong, but thats just my 2 cents

Sharee · March 2018

Dottzgaming wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I find it funny that a lot of the ESO community think stamina nightblade is a little OP when in reality the Magicka variant is the one that's top tier. Especially 1v1 really only mag dk and wardens are better. Stamblade is really a middle of the pack class like mag sorc. Both get so much hate on the forums for no real reason.

As for no cp I will agree stamblades are stronger but I still don't have any problems fighting them there either. I think nightblade in general is just popular. not because it's good but because stamblade in particular is just easy to pick up and play. Against experienced opponents though it wouldn't be a class i would want to use.

The bolded point above is what i agree with from this post.

The meme from Skyrim and past TES games was "all roads lead to stealth archer". I honestly think the reason NBs are so popular is because new players think theyre a cool class and see them as that stealthy assassin from the past TES games and they want to recreate it in ESO - whether it be magicka or stamina based. So many new players i personally know go to NB for that reason.

Could be wrong, but thats just my 2 cents

Thing is, if "they're just popular" was the reason, this thread would have been started in 2015, and would be 340 pages long.

NB numbers are off the scale nowadays because most of the things that used to kill them just went away. Birds, SA snare... and I can't even count anymore how often a NB dodged my powerlash at 5% HP, cloaked, then reappeared fully healthy a couple of seconds later. That did not happen last patch, as you can imagine.

Undefwun · March 2018

Cloak really triggers ppl...

I'm actually gonna respec my pve only sorc so i can zerg surf and fury spam.... seems to be the cool thing to do these days, it is in A LOT of my death recaps.

Minalan · March 2018

Undefwun wrote: »

Cloak really triggers ppl...

I'm actually gonna respec my pve only sorc so i can zerg surf and fury spam.... seems to be the cool thing to do these days, it is in A LOT of my death recaps.

Probably about as much as assassinate and incap are in mine. It’s an execute.

Sharee wrote: »

Dottzgaming wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I find it funny that a lot of the ESO community think stamina nightblade is a little OP when in reality the Magicka variant is the one that's top tier. Especially 1v1 really only mag dk and wardens are better. Stamblade is really a middle of the pack class like mag sorc. Both get so much hate on the forums for no real reason.

As for no cp I will agree stamblades are stronger but I still don't have any problems fighting them there either. I think nightblade in general is just popular. not because it's good but because stamblade in particular is just easy to pick up and play. Against experienced opponents though it wouldn't be a class i would want to use.

The bolded point above is what i agree with from this post.

The meme from Skyrim and past TES games was "all roads lead to stealth archer". I honestly think the reason NBs are so popular is because new players think theyre a cool class and see them as that stealthy assassin from the past TES games and they want to recreate it in ESO - whether it be magicka or stamina based. So many new players i personally know go to NB for that reason.

Could be wrong, but thats just my 2 cents

Thing is, if "they're just popular" was the reason, this thread would have been started in 2015, and would be 340 pages long.

NB numbers are off the scale nowadays because most of the things that used to kill them just went away. Birds, SA snare... and I can't even count anymore how often a NB dodged my powerlash at 5% HP, cloaked, then reappeared fully healthy a couple of seconds later. That did not happen last patch, as you can imagine.

Pretty much this, they didn’t buff nightblade as much as they removed all of the hard counters to them.

People will always play the most effective class. Period. It’s like they removed the muzzle on nightblades that kept their considerable power, burst, and debuffs all balanced. To fix it though I would buff a few things on classes that can’t counter them at all using class abilities any longer.

Since it’s clear the devs are busy all playing nightblades, I’m just waiting for the next patch note to purge sorcerer curses on cloak. Then I’ll know it’s time to re-roll magbmade and slot mark. Or play a different game.

ak_pvp · March 2018

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

BohnT · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

These changes would hurt pvp even further. Except for snare removal on wings

It would make efficient purge too strong. During a normal 1v1 you have lots of debuffs on you.
Example stamnb:
Major defile, major vulnerability, major fracture, bleed, poison injection, minor maim, snare from fear, siphoner cp, minor vulnerability, with poisons 3 other debuffs, with mark another 2 additional debuffs

Also what happens when you don't have many debuffs on you? Do you get a flat value or can't you purge then?

BoL is a ridiculous ability. When we touch on the things which need to be changed for sorcs (shieldbreaker, shieldstacking, offence) a ability like BoL will have to take hits or you are simply moving the problem we have with stamnbs today to sorcs.

Mines are beautiful they already stop people just fine from walking into them no need to make them an absolute deathtrap for everyone who even considers coming close to them. This game doesn't need more things which take the attackers skill out of the game to get kills. This game needs things which which make it possible for the attacker and defender to punish mistakes due to their own skill just like mines are atm.
You walk into the mines, you take heavy damage but your not dead, the sorc actively has to kill you afterwards while you can back up if he fails to do so.

If you let dots go through cloak you put stamnb into their graves. Cloak is fine for surviving what's not fine is how it synergies with the front loaded burst potential to kill tanky targets in without them reacting.

Take away some of their burst potential by removing the cc on incap. This forces them to be visible for longer periods of time when they want to get kills while not making stamnb a class that solely has to focus on ganking people because they don't have a chance of defending once the gank fails.

Debuffs and overperfoming offences have to be changed on how they get applied not how to remove them. A strong purge for everyone is not a good idea. Less debuffs for everyone is.

Undefwun · March 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Probably about as much as assassinate and incap are in mine. It’s an execute.

Maybe I should have been clearer, there seems to be more of it now than say a month ago (and also I just logged off after pretty much three quarters of my deaths had at least 1 fury from some guy I wasn't fighting, one had 2 or 3 diff sorc names, none of them from the guy I had been fighting)

Could be that I am engaging differently, more aggressively, as I am progressing from hot-trash-juice to delightfully average or in response to more stam blades ppl are trying to run characters/builds that have more range.

But it doesn't really bother me if I engage/am engaged by a sorc and get reduced to ash in 2 seconds. Well then, more L2P for me...
It's that sorc that streaked away the second they saw me or 2 or more that come up, that feel the need to spam it while I'm having a crack at someone else. Good chance that I'm gonna lose anyway...

Maybe it's just me, but if i see 1v1 or Xv1 (X being from my side) in general I stay out of it or watch. If my alliance guy is winning, not gonna steal his KB and if it's even, leave them to it. If my guy is not holding is own, as in it is obviously not an even fight, ok I'll go in, as there is someone who could teach me something new and he can handle 2 guys.

Just alot of *** canoe sorcs just spamming fury from a safe distance feels both pretty cowardly towards me and insulting to their own team mate.

Again it just seems to have increased a lot lately, It's stealing the spots from usual DBoS and leaps that usually populate my death recaps....

Feanor · March 2018

Mines are beautiful they already stop people just fine from walking into them no need to make them an absolute deathtrap for everyone who even considers coming close to them. This game doesn't need more things which take the attackers skill out of the game to get kills. This game needs things which which make it possible for the attacker and defender to punish mistakes due to their own skill just like mines are atm.
You walk into the mines, you take heavy damage but your not dead, the sorc actively has to kill you afterwards while you can back up if he fails to do so.

No, you simply mist form over them, take no damage at all, and then gap close and kill the Sorc. Or you outright build for high mitigation and simply eat the mines. I had both happen regularly until I dropped mines from the bar. Mines are awesome to kill a squishy melee char or bad players.

The amount of squishy melee chars in Cyrodiil is near 0 with the environment we have at the moment though.

BohnT · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Mines are beautiful they already stop people just fine from walking into them no need to make them an absolute deathtrap for everyone who even considers coming close to them. This game doesn't need more things which take the attackers skill out of the game to get kills. This game needs things which which make it possible for the attacker and defender to punish mistakes due to their own skill just like mines are atm.
You walk into the mines, you take heavy damage but your not dead, the sorc actively has to kill you afterwards while you can back up if he fails to do so.

No, you simply mist form over them, take no damage at all, and then gap close and kill the Sorc. Or you outright build for high mitigation and simply eat the mines. I had both happen regularly until I dropped mines from the bar. Mines are awesome to kill a squishy melee char or bad players.

The amount of squishy melee chars in Cyrodiil is near 0 with the environment we have at the moment though.

What are you talking about? The number of squishy nbs has never been higher. If you get jumped by a nb while inside your mines you can easily kill him with endless fury and flame reach. Also we had the discussion and you lose more by removing them even with mistform then I lose as a sorc putting them down.
Mines cost 5k mag, the other player uses mistform which costs 5.9k mag without reduction.
Then he loses 2 regen ticks while in mistform and he still takes ~ 5-7k damage.
So he lost more mag, lost health on top and you can simply put down another layer of mines if you want to.

Mines are the best area denial skill in the game right now (after broken Zaan procs) and there is no class that can ignore them. If you die because someone gapcloses and then nukes you while you have mines up the fault were on your side.
1. that you didn't Kite through the mines
2. that you died before you can Kite with mines
3. that you lost the fight beforehand if someone takes all of your mines and you can't kill him afterwards you lack so much damage that you wouldn't kill him any time.

Minalan · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

Your mines suggestion would be a huge Sorc nerf, some of us hide behind and use all of those mines.

Undefwun wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Probably about as much as assassinate and incap are in mine. It’s an execute.

Maybe I should have been clearer, there seems to be more of it now than say a month ago (and also I just logged off after pretty much three quarters of my deaths had at least 1 fury from some guy I wasn't fighting, one had 2 or 3 diff sorc names, none of them from the guy I had been fighting)

Could be that I am engaging differently, more aggressively, as I am progressing from hot-trash-juice to delightfully average or in response to more stam blades ppl are trying to run characters/builds that have more range.

But it doesn't really bother me if I engage/am engaged by a sorc and get reduced to ash in 2 seconds. Well then, more L2P for me...
It's that sorc that streaked away the second they saw me or 2 or more that come up, that feel the need to spam it while I'm having a crack at someone else. Good chance that I'm gonna lose anyway...

Maybe it's just me, but if i see 1v1 or Xv1 (X being from my side) in general I stay out of it or watch. If my alliance guy is winning, not gonna steal his KB and if it's even, leave them to it. If my guy is not holding is own, as in it is obviously not an even fight, ok I'll go in, as there is someone who could teach me something new and he can handle 2 guys.

Just alot of *** canoe sorcs just spamming fury from a safe distance feels both pretty cowardly towards me and insulting to their own team mate.

Again it just seems to have increased a lot lately, It's stealing the spots from usual DBoS and leaps that usually populate my death recaps....

Sorc’s execute usually hits people for less than your snipe. And it has a shorter range than snipe. And it doesn’t have the snipe debuff. And you think it’s cowardly? I’m trying to decide whether to laugh or cry mate.

Spamming fury does nothing (less than 2K usually) when your health stays above 20%. Spamming snipe will absolutely murder you in 2-3 solid hits unless you’re dodge rolling and healing up like mad. The only downside is the travel time.

I think the issue is that you’re more aggressive this patch when MagDK and Magden’s aren’t instant nightblade death anymore. They can’t spam undodgable birds, or powerlash you into the dirt anymore.

Sorcs still have effective counters with curse and mage wrath. Watch out for them and kill/pressure them first. You’re an assassin. You choose when and where to hit someone. You’re invisible to everyone. You still have amazing burst. You have a ton of debuffs to apply. You can dodge roll like a hyperactive spider monkey.

Undefwun · March 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Sorc’s execute usually hits people for less than your snipe. And it has a shorter range than snipe. And it doesn’t have the snipe debuff. And you think it’s cowardly? I’m trying to decide whether to laugh or cry mate.

Spamming fury does nothing (less than 2K usually) when your health stays above 20%. Spamming snipe will absolutely murder you in 2-3 solid hits unless you’re dodge rolling and healing up like mad. The only downside is the travel time.

I think the issue is that you’re more aggressive this patch when MagDK and Magden’s aren’t instant nightblade death anymore. They can’t spam undodgable birds, or powerlash you into the dirt anymore.

Sorcs still have effective counters with curse and mage wrath. Watch out for them and kill/pressure them first. You’re an assassin. You choose when and where to hit someone. You’re invisible to everyone. You still have amazing burst. You have a ton of debuffs to apply. You can dodge roll like a hyperactive spider monkey.

a) DW Magblade (yes I am a stubborn glutton for punishment), so no snipe and no spider monkey business.
b) My issue is not with fury as an execute skill on it's own, IF fighting a sorc. It's tards off to the side spamming it waiting for my health to dip, that is my particular salt inducer.
c) You are correct, I have ways to apply pressure. I have much L2P still to go, but see point b)
d) Maybe the changes have had an effect, but my lack of real experience make that hard for me to measure. More importantly to me, I've had some practice, there is much less panicked button mashing.
e) The salt got the best of me earlier. I was annoyed when I got out of game and then the constant crying about NBs cloak made me post something I shouldn't. I don't know why it's ok for other classes to use their class skills just because it's out in the open. By the way I hate stealthing bowtards as much as anyone, they are my preferred target, but because i travel in stealth alot it's not really a problem for me, but I sympathise with others. I don't perma cloak during fights tho.

f) carry on... apologies again for salting this thread...

technohic · March 2018

I actually died to sorc execute last night a couple of times but both times was my fault missing seeing curse on me and allowing the combo to bring me into execute range. I’m not really worried about the ones that do it in the background though. Usually means I hit the wrong first target.

ak_pvp · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

These changes would hurt pvp even further. Except for snare removal on wings

It would make efficient purge too strong. During a normal 1v1 you have lots of debuffs on you.
Example stamnb:
Major defile, major vulnerability, major fracture, bleed, poison injection, minor maim, snare from fear, siphoner cp, minor vulnerability, with poisons 3 other debuffs, with mark another 2 additional debuffs

Also what happens when you don't have many debuffs on you? Do you get a flat value or can't you purge then?

BoL is a ridiculous ability. When we touch on the things which need to be changed for sorcs (shieldbreaker, shieldstacking, offence) a ability like BoL will have to take hits or you are simply moving the problem we have with stamnbs today to sorcs.

Mines are beautiful they already stop people just fine from walking into them no need to make them an absolute deathtrap for everyone who even considers coming close to them. This game doesn't need more things which take the attackers skill out of the game to get kills. This game needs things which which make it possible for the attacker and defender to punish mistakes due to their own skill just like mines are atm.
You walk into the mines, you take heavy damage but your not dead, the sorc actively has to kill you afterwards while you can back up if he fails to do so.

If you let dots go through cloak you put stamnb into their graves. Cloak is fine for surviving what's not fine is how it synergies with the front loaded burst potential to kill tanky targets in without them reacting.

Take away some of their burst potential by removing the cc on incap. This forces them to be visible for longer periods of time when they want to get kills while not making stamnb a class that solely has to focus on ganking people because they don't have a chance of defending once the gank fails.

Debuffs and overperfoming offences have to be changed on how they get applied not how to remove them. A strong purge for everyone is not a good idea. Less debuffs for everyone is.

Maybe the first purge change becomes too strong, but the flat value will just be one.

BoL change would be changed along with changes to shields, so they have more counters. Mobility and mines forcing chokepoints/enemy movement should be the defense not lazy shieldspam.

Mines is way too costly for what it does. It should be a proper AOD that scares people to eat fully of the damage would be reduced if its oblivion, but no one should be able to eat every mine for the group. That is why it can be ate and opened for the group for 5s, then rearm.

Cloak shouldn't stop dots, or any already targeted ability for that matter. It is invisibility. But, total dot removal would hurt, but they have crit heals for that morph. The other more defensive morph would lower burst. Risk vs reward.

I see no reason to change the max burst of an NB. Ttk is low as is, and for the most part their burst can be dealt with. They are meant to be the stealthy damage class, not the use cloak for best mitigation+healing class.

ak_pvp · March 2018

Minalan wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

Your mines suggestion would be a huge Sorc nerf, some of us hide behind and use all of those mines.

Maybe you misunderstand? You get more. Mines for your buck. They just deal. More damage and rearm

BohnT · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

These changes would hurt pvp even further. Except for snare removal on wings

It would make efficient purge too strong. During a normal 1v1 you have lots of debuffs on you.
Example stamnb:
Major defile, major vulnerability, major fracture, bleed, poison injection, minor maim, snare from fear, siphoner cp, minor vulnerability, with poisons 3 other debuffs, with mark another 2 additional debuffs

Also what happens when you don't have many debuffs on you? Do you get a flat value or can't you purge then?

BoL is a ridiculous ability. When we touch on the things which need to be changed for sorcs (shieldbreaker, shieldstacking, offence) a ability like BoL will have to take hits or you are simply moving the problem we have with stamnbs today to sorcs.

Mines are beautiful they already stop people just fine from walking into them no need to make them an absolute deathtrap for everyone who even considers coming close to them. This game doesn't need more things which take the attackers skill out of the game to get kills. This game needs things which which make it possible for the attacker and defender to punish mistakes due to their own skill just like mines are atm.
You walk into the mines, you take heavy damage but your not dead, the sorc actively has to kill you afterwards while you can back up if he fails to do so.

If you let dots go through cloak you put stamnb into their graves. Cloak is fine for surviving what's not fine is how it synergies with the front loaded burst potential to kill tanky targets in without them reacting.

Take away some of their burst potential by removing the cc on incap. This forces them to be visible for longer periods of time when they want to get kills while not making stamnb a class that solely has to focus on ganking people because they don't have a chance of defending once the gank fails.

Debuffs and overperfoming offences have to be changed on how they get applied not how to remove them. A strong purge for everyone is not a good idea. Less debuffs for everyone is.

Maybe the first purge change becomes too strong, but the flat value will just be one.

BoL change would be changed along with changes to shields, so they have more counters. Mobility and mines forcing chokepoints/enemy movement should be the defense not lazy shieldspam.

Mines is way too costly for what it does. It should be a proper AOD that scares people to eat fully of the damage would be reduced if its oblivion, but no one should be able to eat every mine for the group. That is why it can be ate and opened for the group for 5s, then rearm.

Cloak shouldn't stop dots, or any already targeted ability for that matter. It is invisibility. But, total dot removal would hurt, but they have crit heals for that morph. The other more defensive morph would lower burst. Risk vs reward.

I see no reason to change the max burst of an NB. Ttk is low as is, and for the most part their burst can be dealt with. They are meant to be the stealthy damage class, not the use cloak for best mitigation+healing class.

This Shows that you only Play magdk.

Mines aren't expensive or hard to Keep up. With the typical: lich+domi+shakle build you can use mines all day with no worries. There is no time even after streaking where i can't use mines even when using them unintendedly I don't have any Problems resource wise.

Oblivion damage is stupid *** that shouldn't be here in the first place, everyone taking all mines for the Team is either dead afterward or is a full tank and then he should be able to take them.

if you remove the survivability gained through cloak you force every nb to be a ganker. Either they win the fight in the first seconds or it's over. Cloak has it's risk reward mechanic already, either it breaks and gives you nothing or it saves your ass.

The offence of stamnb is stupid pew pew design. Press 3 Buttons and get the kill or cloak away and repeat it until you have success and you can do that because the front loaded burst is just ridicoulusly high.

technohic · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

These changes would hurt pvp even further. Except for snare removal on wings

It would make efficient purge too strong. During a normal 1v1 you have lots of debuffs on you.
Example stamnb:
Major defile, major vulnerability, major fracture, bleed, poison injection, minor maim, snare from fear, siphoner cp, minor vulnerability, with poisons 3 other debuffs, with mark another 2 additional debuffs

Also what happens when you don't have many debuffs on you? Do you get a flat value or can't you purge then?

BoL is a ridiculous ability. When we touch on the things which need to be changed for sorcs (shieldbreaker, shieldstacking, offence) a ability like BoL will have to take hits or you are simply moving the problem we have with stamnbs today to sorcs.

Mines are beautiful they already stop people just fine from walking into them no need to make them an absolute deathtrap for everyone who even considers coming close to them. This game doesn't need more things which take the attackers skill out of the game to get kills. This game needs things which which make it possible for the attacker and defender to punish mistakes due to their own skill just like mines are atm.
You walk into the mines, you take heavy damage but your not dead, the sorc actively has to kill you afterwards while you can back up if he fails to do so.

If you let dots go through cloak you put stamnb into their graves. Cloak is fine for surviving what's not fine is how it synergies with the front loaded burst potential to kill tanky targets in without them reacting.

Take away some of their burst potential by removing the cc on incap. This forces them to be visible for longer periods of time when they want to get kills while not making stamnb a class that solely has to focus on ganking people because they don't have a chance of defending once the gank fails.

Debuffs and overperfoming offences have to be changed on how they get applied not how to remove them. A strong purge for everyone is not a good idea. Less debuffs for everyone is.

Maybe the first purge change becomes too strong, but the flat value will just be one.

BoL change would be changed along with changes to shields, so they have more counters. Mobility and mines forcing chokepoints/enemy movement should be the defense not lazy shieldspam.

Mines is way too costly for what it does. It should be a proper AOD that scares people to eat fully of the damage would be reduced if its oblivion, but no one should be able to eat every mine for the group. That is why it can be ate and opened for the group for 5s, then rearm.

Cloak shouldn't stop dots, or any already targeted ability for that matter. It is invisibility. But, total dot removal would hurt, but they have crit heals for that morph. The other more defensive morph would lower burst. Risk vs reward.

I see no reason to change the max burst of an NB. Ttk is low as is, and for the most part their burst can be dealt with. They are meant to be the stealthy damage class, not the use cloak for best mitigation+healing class.

This Shows that you only Play magdk.

Mines aren't expensive or hard to Keep up. With the typical: lich+domi+shakle build you can use mines all day with no worries. There is no time even after streaking where i can't use mines even when using them unintendedly I don't have any Problems resource wise.

Oblivion damage is stupid *** that shouldn't be here in the first place, everyone taking all mines for the Team is either dead afterward or is a full tank and then he should be able to take them.

if you remove the survivability gained through cloak you force every nb to be a ganker. Either they win the fight in the first seconds or it's over. Cloak has it's risk reward mechanic already, either it breaks and gives you nothing or it saves your ass.

The offence of stamnb is stupid pew pew design. Press 3 Buttons and get the kill or cloak away and repeat it until you have success and you can do that because the front loaded burst is just ridicoulusly high.

Cloak as Defense is fine. The heal to full and re-engage in 3 seconds with huge burst is not.

BohnT · March 2018

technohic wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

These changes would hurt pvp even further. Except for snare removal on wings

It would make efficient purge too strong. During a normal 1v1 you have lots of debuffs on you.
Example stamnb:
Major defile, major vulnerability, major fracture, bleed, poison injection, minor maim, snare from fear, siphoner cp, minor vulnerability, with poisons 3 other debuffs, with mark another 2 additional debuffs

Also what happens when you don't have many debuffs on you? Do you get a flat value or can't you purge then?

BoL is a ridiculous ability. When we touch on the things which need to be changed for sorcs (shieldbreaker, shieldstacking, offence) a ability like BoL will have to take hits or you are simply moving the problem we have with stamnbs today to sorcs.

Mines are beautiful they already stop people just fine from walking into them no need to make them an absolute deathtrap for everyone who even considers coming close to them. This game doesn't need more things which take the attackers skill out of the game to get kills. This game needs things which which make it possible for the attacker and defender to punish mistakes due to their own skill just like mines are atm.
You walk into the mines, you take heavy damage but your not dead, the sorc actively has to kill you afterwards while you can back up if he fails to do so.

If you let dots go through cloak you put stamnb into their graves. Cloak is fine for surviving what's not fine is how it synergies with the front loaded burst potential to kill tanky targets in without them reacting.

Take away some of their burst potential by removing the cc on incap. This forces them to be visible for longer periods of time when they want to get kills while not making stamnb a class that solely has to focus on ganking people because they don't have a chance of defending once the gank fails.

Debuffs and overperfoming offences have to be changed on how they get applied not how to remove them. A strong purge for everyone is not a good idea. Less debuffs for everyone is.

Maybe the first purge change becomes too strong, but the flat value will just be one.

BoL change would be changed along with changes to shields, so they have more counters. Mobility and mines forcing chokepoints/enemy movement should be the defense not lazy shieldspam.

Mines is way too costly for what it does. It should be a proper AOD that scares people to eat fully of the damage would be reduced if its oblivion, but no one should be able to eat every mine for the group. That is why it can be ate and opened for the group for 5s, then rearm.

Cloak shouldn't stop dots, or any already targeted ability for that matter. It is invisibility. But, total dot removal would hurt, but they have crit heals for that morph. The other more defensive morph would lower burst. Risk vs reward.

I see no reason to change the max burst of an NB. Ttk is low as is, and for the most part their burst can be dealt with. They are meant to be the stealthy damage class, not the use cloak for best mitigation+healing class.

This Shows that you only Play magdk.

Mines aren't expensive or hard to Keep up. With the typical: lich+domi+shakle build you can use mines all day with no worries. There is no time even after streaking where i can't use mines even when using them unintendedly I don't have any Problems resource wise.

Oblivion damage is stupid *** that shouldn't be here in the first place, everyone taking all mines for the Team is either dead afterward or is a full tank and then he should be able to take them.

if you remove the survivability gained through cloak you force every nb to be a ganker. Either they win the fight in the first seconds or it's over. Cloak has it's risk reward mechanic already, either it breaks and gives you nothing or it saves your ass.

The offence of stamnb is stupid pew pew design. Press 3 Buttons and get the kill or cloak away and repeat it until you have success and you can do that because the front loaded burst is just ridicoulusly high.

Cloak as Defense is fine. The heal to full and re-engage in 3 seconds with huge burst is not.

That's what i'm saying. Don't make stamnb a zerg reliant class that has bad survivability but can oneshot solo Players with ease. Make it a viable class that can survive in battle and kill People but not as fast as they can now

Aedaryl · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

These changes would hurt pvp even further. Except for snare removal on wings

It would make efficient purge too strong. During a normal 1v1 you have lots of debuffs on you.
Example stamnb:
Major defile, major vulnerability, major fracture, bleed, poison injection, minor maim, snare from fear, siphoner cp, minor vulnerability, with poisons 3 other debuffs, with mark another 2 additional debuffs

Also what happens when you don't have many debuffs on you? Do you get a flat value or can't you purge then?

BoL is a ridiculous ability. When we touch on the things which need to be changed for sorcs (shieldbreaker, shieldstacking, offence) a ability like BoL will have to take hits or you are simply moving the problem we have with stamnbs today to sorcs.

Mines are beautiful they already stop people just fine from walking into them no need to make them an absolute deathtrap for everyone who even considers coming close to them. This game doesn't need more things which take the attackers skill out of the game to get kills. This game needs things which which make it possible for the attacker and defender to punish mistakes due to their own skill just like mines are atm.
You walk into the mines, you take heavy damage but your not dead, the sorc actively has to kill you afterwards while you can back up if he fails to do so.

If you let dots go through cloak you put stamnb into their graves. Cloak is fine for surviving what's not fine is how it synergies with the front loaded burst potential to kill tanky targets in without them reacting.

Take away some of their burst potential by removing the cc on incap. This forces them to be visible for longer periods of time when they want to get kills while not making stamnb a class that solely has to focus on ganking people because they don't have a chance of defending once the gank fails.

Debuffs and overperfoming offences have to be changed on how they get applied not how to remove them. A strong purge for everyone is not a good idea. Less debuffs for everyone is.

Maybe the first purge change becomes too strong, but the flat value will just be one.

BoL change would be changed along with changes to shields, so they have more counters. Mobility and mines forcing chokepoints/enemy movement should be the defense not lazy shieldspam.

Mines is way too costly for what it does. It should be a proper AOD that scares people to eat fully of the damage would be reduced if its oblivion, but no one should be able to eat every mine for the group. That is why it can be ate and opened for the group for 5s, then rearm.

Cloak shouldn't stop dots, or any already targeted ability for that matter. It is invisibility. But, total dot removal would hurt, but they have crit heals for that morph. The other more defensive morph would lower burst. Risk vs reward.

I see no reason to change the max burst of an NB. Ttk is low as is, and for the most part their burst can be dealt with. They are meant to be the stealthy damage class, not the use cloak for best mitigation+healing class.

This Shows that you only Play magdk.

Mines aren't expensive or hard to Keep up. With the typical: lich+domi+shakle build you can use mines all day with no worries. There is no time even after streaking where i can't use mines even when using them unintendedly I don't have any Problems resource wise.

Oblivion damage is stupid *** that shouldn't be here in the first place, everyone taking all mines for the Team is either dead afterward or is a full tank and then he should be able to take them.

if you remove the survivability gained through cloak you force every nb to be a ganker. Either they win the fight in the first seconds or it's over. Cloak has it's risk reward mechanic already, either it breaks and gives you nothing or it saves your ass.

The offence of stamnb is stupid pew pew design. Press 3 Buttons and get the kill or cloak away and repeat it until you have success and you can do that because the front loaded burst is just ridicoulusly high.

You are using harness magicka right ? If yes then you don't know what sustain mean on magsorc, harness is so broken than it's make sorc sustain forever if there is a single magicka ennemy there.

My point is that mines ARE too much expensive, and a sorc hwo don't use OPharness will have trouble to sustain it effectively without being forced to use dark conversion too much.

For NB, you want an incap nerf ? Something like stun removed ? So the combo will be 4 buttons (Poison injection, cloak, Ambush, fear, incap, suprise attack, dodge into reverse slice, dodge into rally, dodge into vigor, cloak and repeat ?)

BohnT · March 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

These changes would hurt pvp even further. Except for snare removal on wings

It would make efficient purge too strong. During a normal 1v1 you have lots of debuffs on you.
Example stamnb:
Major defile, major vulnerability, major fracture, bleed, poison injection, minor maim, snare from fear, siphoner cp, minor vulnerability, with poisons 3 other debuffs, with mark another 2 additional debuffs

Also what happens when you don't have many debuffs on you? Do you get a flat value or can't you purge then?

BoL is a ridiculous ability. When we touch on the things which need to be changed for sorcs (shieldbreaker, shieldstacking, offence) a ability like BoL will have to take hits or you are simply moving the problem we have with stamnbs today to sorcs.

Mines are beautiful they already stop people just fine from walking into them no need to make them an absolute deathtrap for everyone who even considers coming close to them. This game doesn't need more things which take the attackers skill out of the game to get kills. This game needs things which which make it possible for the attacker and defender to punish mistakes due to their own skill just like mines are atm.
You walk into the mines, you take heavy damage but your not dead, the sorc actively has to kill you afterwards while you can back up if he fails to do so.

If you let dots go through cloak you put stamnb into their graves. Cloak is fine for surviving what's not fine is how it synergies with the front loaded burst potential to kill tanky targets in without them reacting.

Take away some of their burst potential by removing the cc on incap. This forces them to be visible for longer periods of time when they want to get kills while not making stamnb a class that solely has to focus on ganking people because they don't have a chance of defending once the gank fails.

Debuffs and overperfoming offences have to be changed on how they get applied not how to remove them. A strong purge for everyone is not a good idea. Less debuffs for everyone is.

Maybe the first purge change becomes too strong, but the flat value will just be one.

BoL change would be changed along with changes to shields, so they have more counters. Mobility and mines forcing chokepoints/enemy movement should be the defense not lazy shieldspam.

Mines is way too costly for what it does. It should be a proper AOD that scares people to eat fully of the damage would be reduced if its oblivion, but no one should be able to eat every mine for the group. That is why it can be ate and opened for the group for 5s, then rearm.

Cloak shouldn't stop dots, or any already targeted ability for that matter. It is invisibility. But, total dot removal would hurt, but they have crit heals for that morph. The other more defensive morph would lower burst. Risk vs reward.

I see no reason to change the max burst of an NB. Ttk is low as is, and for the most part their burst can be dealt with. They are meant to be the stealthy damage class, not the use cloak for best mitigation+healing class.

This Shows that you only Play magdk.

Mines aren't expensive or hard to Keep up. With the typical: lich+domi+shakle build you can use mines all day with no worries. There is no time even after streaking where i can't use mines even when using them unintendedly I don't have any Problems resource wise.

Oblivion damage is stupid *** that shouldn't be here in the first place, everyone taking all mines for the Team is either dead afterward or is a full tank and then he should be able to take them.

if you remove the survivability gained through cloak you force every nb to be a ganker. Either they win the fight in the first seconds or it's over. Cloak has it's risk reward mechanic already, either it breaks and gives you nothing or it saves your ass.

The offence of stamnb is stupid pew pew design. Press 3 Buttons and get the kill or cloak away and repeat it until you have success and you can do that because the front loaded burst is just ridicoulusly high.

You are using harness magicka right ? If yes then you don't know what sustain mean on magsorc, harness is so broken than it's make sorc sustain forever if there is a single magicka ennemy there.

My point is that mines ARE too much expensive, and a sorc hwo don't use OPharness will have trouble to sustain it effectively without being forced to use dark conversion too much.

For NB, you want an incap nerf ? Something like stun removed ? So the combo will be 4 buttons (Poison injection, cloak, Ambush, fear, incap, suprise attack, dodge into reverse slice, dodge into rally, dodge into vigor, cloak and repeat ?)

I keep up mines against stam as mag alike with no issues both in. Cp and non cp.
I can keep it up without using harness, is harness op yes of course but sorc sustain is so easy that you don't need it to keep mines up.

If you don't use dark conversion in the current patch you fail to magsorc. When you are in your mines or streaked twice you can get off atleast 2 DC if you need to.

The removal of the stun adds one GCD which the stamnb has to use to land its burst reliably.
In terms of burst one gcd is huge. I already made the calculations with and without a stun on incap atleast 3 times on these forums.

Aedaryl · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

These changes would hurt pvp even further. Except for snare removal on wings

It would make efficient purge too strong. During a normal 1v1 you have lots of debuffs on you.
Example stamnb:
Major defile, major vulnerability, major fracture, bleed, poison injection, minor maim, snare from fear, siphoner cp, minor vulnerability, with poisons 3 other debuffs, with mark another 2 additional debuffs

Also what happens when you don't have many debuffs on you? Do you get a flat value or can't you purge then?

BoL is a ridiculous ability. When we touch on the things which need to be changed for sorcs (shieldbreaker, shieldstacking, offence) a ability like BoL will have to take hits or you are simply moving the problem we have with stamnbs today to sorcs.

Mines are beautiful they already stop people just fine from walking into them no need to make them an absolute deathtrap for everyone who even considers coming close to them. This game doesn't need more things which take the attackers skill out of the game to get kills. This game needs things which which make it possible for the attacker and defender to punish mistakes due to their own skill just like mines are atm.
You walk into the mines, you take heavy damage but your not dead, the sorc actively has to kill you afterwards while you can back up if he fails to do so.

If you let dots go through cloak you put stamnb into their graves. Cloak is fine for surviving what's not fine is how it synergies with the front loaded burst potential to kill tanky targets in without them reacting.

Take away some of their burst potential by removing the cc on incap. This forces them to be visible for longer periods of time when they want to get kills while not making stamnb a class that solely has to focus on ganking people because they don't have a chance of defending once the gank fails.

Debuffs and overperfoming offences have to be changed on how they get applied not how to remove them. A strong purge for everyone is not a good idea. Less debuffs for everyone is.

Maybe the first purge change becomes too strong, but the flat value will just be one.

BoL change would be changed along with changes to shields, so they have more counters. Mobility and mines forcing chokepoints/enemy movement should be the defense not lazy shieldspam.

Mines is way too costly for what it does. It should be a proper AOD that scares people to eat fully of the damage would be reduced if its oblivion, but no one should be able to eat every mine for the group. That is why it can be ate and opened for the group for 5s, then rearm.

Cloak shouldn't stop dots, or any already targeted ability for that matter. It is invisibility. But, total dot removal would hurt, but they have crit heals for that morph. The other more defensive morph would lower burst. Risk vs reward.

I see no reason to change the max burst of an NB. Ttk is low as is, and for the most part their burst can be dealt with. They are meant to be the stealthy damage class, not the use cloak for best mitigation+healing class.

This Shows that you only Play magdk.

Mines aren't expensive or hard to Keep up. With the typical: lich+domi+shakle build you can use mines all day with no worries. There is no time even after streaking where i can't use mines even when using them unintendedly I don't have any Problems resource wise.

Oblivion damage is stupid *** that shouldn't be here in the first place, everyone taking all mines for the Team is either dead afterward or is a full tank and then he should be able to take them.

if you remove the survivability gained through cloak you force every nb to be a ganker. Either they win the fight in the first seconds or it's over. Cloak has it's risk reward mechanic already, either it breaks and gives you nothing or it saves your ass.

The offence of stamnb is stupid pew pew design. Press 3 Buttons and get the kill or cloak away and repeat it until you have success and you can do that because the front loaded burst is just ridicoulusly high.

You are using harness magicka right ? If yes then you don't know what sustain mean on magsorc, harness is so broken than it's make sorc sustain forever if there is a single magicka ennemy there.

My point is that mines ARE too much expensive, and a sorc hwo don't use OPharness will have trouble to sustain it effectively without being forced to use dark conversion too much.

For NB, you want an incap nerf ? Something like stun removed ? So the combo will be 4 buttons (Poison injection, cloak, Ambush, fear, incap, suprise attack, dodge into reverse slice, dodge into rally, dodge into vigor, cloak and repeat ?)

I keep up mines against stam as mag alike with no issues both in. Cp and non cp.
I can keep it up without using harness, is harness op yes of course but sorc sustain is so easy that you don't need it to keep mines up.

If you don't use dark conversion in the current patch you fail to magsorc. When you are in your mines or streaked twice you can get off atleast 2 DC if you need to.

The removal of the stun adds one GCD which the stamnb has to use to land its burst reliably.
In terms of burst one gcd is huge. I already made the calculations with and without a stun on incap atleast 3 times on these forums.

I was always agaisnt dark conversion but I finally try it and I'm 100% agree with you, it's a great skill for sorc and not using it is an error, I even find space on my pet sorc to use it.

My point was without being forced to use dark conversion too much. I think a cost reduction to the skill could be a nice thing, but it's defenitively not a priority to make sorc balanced.

For Incap, I also think removing the stun could be a good thing.

ak_pvp · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not every class needs purge/snare immunity. But every class needs some method of defense and maneuverability comparable to something like cloak. That doesn't mean everyone should be +40% no snare roadrunners, but It should mean decent ability to deal with incoming attacks and not be stuck down.

Templar purge: Remove 30%+damage/60%. Both morphs grants 2s immunity to non damage effects removed. About as strong 1v1, buff if 10+ effects. (Common outnumbered)

Efficient purge: Remove 25% of effects. A buff if outnumbered, about same if 1v1.

Wings+slab. 3 projectiles per person for 6s. Slab mag return reduced, but if outnumbered enough it increases. Wings projectiles against single target+duration reduced, but better against outnumbered. Non damage wing morph removes+immunity to snares. Reflects pulse+bird, fix status effects.

Ball of lightning: Can have 2 balls active. Absorbs X projectile per ball. Can target ball and cast streak again to teleport there for free. Streak: Cheaper+more damage.

Mines: Exponential OR oblivion damage, so they actually matter and can't just be easily misted over. Mines reset after 5s, but cannot hit the same target twice per cast.

Cloak: 50% dot suppression one morph+8% protection, crit on other. If busted mechanics are going to be a buff for cloak, might as well separate them, already the best defense.

These changes would hurt pvp even further. Except for snare removal on wings

It would make efficient purge too strong. During a normal 1v1 you have lots of debuffs on you.
Example stamnb:
Major defile, major vulnerability, major fracture, bleed, poison injection, minor maim, snare from fear, siphoner cp, minor vulnerability, with poisons 3 other debuffs, with mark another 2 additional debuffs

Also what happens when you don't have many debuffs on you? Do you get a flat value or can't you purge then?

BoL is a ridiculous ability. When we touch on the things which need to be changed for sorcs (shieldbreaker, shieldstacking, offence) a ability like BoL will have to take hits or you are simply moving the problem we have with stamnbs today to sorcs.

Mines are beautiful they already stop people just fine from walking into them no need to make them an absolute deathtrap for everyone who even considers coming close to them. This game doesn't need more things which take the attackers skill out of the game to get kills. This game needs things which which make it possible for the attacker and defender to punish mistakes due to their own skill just like mines are atm.
You walk into the mines, you take heavy damage but your not dead, the sorc actively has to kill you afterwards while you can back up if he fails to do so.

If you let dots go through cloak you put stamnb into their graves. Cloak is fine for surviving what's not fine is how it synergies with the front loaded burst potential to kill tanky targets in without them reacting.

Take away some of their burst potential by removing the cc on incap. This forces them to be visible for longer periods of time when they want to get kills while not making stamnb a class that solely has to focus on ganking people because they don't have a chance of defending once the gank fails.

Debuffs and overperfoming offences have to be changed on how they get applied not how to remove them. A strong purge for everyone is not a good idea. Less debuffs for everyone is.

Maybe the first purge change becomes too strong, but the flat value will just be one.

BoL change would be changed along with changes to shields, so they have more counters. Mobility and mines forcing chokepoints/enemy movement should be the defense not lazy shieldspam.

Mines is way too costly for what it does. It should be a proper AOD that scares people to eat fully of the damage would be reduced if its oblivion, but no one should be able to eat every mine for the group. That is why it can be ate and opened for the group for 5s, then rearm.

Cloak shouldn't stop dots, or any already targeted ability for that matter. It is invisibility. But, total dot removal would hurt, but they have crit heals for that morph. The other more defensive morph would lower burst. Risk vs reward.

I see no reason to change the max burst of an NB. Ttk is low as is, and for the most part their burst can be dealt with. They are meant to be the stealthy damage class, not the use cloak for best mitigation+healing class.

This Shows that you only Play magdk.

Mines aren't expensive or hard to Keep up. With the typical: lich+domi+shakle build you can use mines all day with no worries. There is no time even after streaking where i can't use mines even when using them unintendedly I don't have any Problems resource wise.

Oblivion damage is stupid *** that shouldn't be here in the first place, everyone taking all mines for the Team is either dead afterward or is a full tank and then he should be able to take them.

if you remove the survivability gained through cloak you force every nb to be a ganker. Either they win the fight in the first seconds or it's over. Cloak has it's risk reward mechanic already, either it breaks and gives you nothing or it saves your ass.

The offence of stamnb is stupid pew pew design. Press 3 Buttons and get the kill or cloak away and repeat it until you have success and you can do that because the front loaded burst is just ridicoulusly high.

You are using harness magicka right ? If yes then you don't know what sustain mean on magsorc, harness is so broken than it's make sorc sustain forever if there is a single magicka ennemy there.

My point is that mines ARE too much expensive, and a sorc hwo don't use OPharness will have trouble to sustain it effectively without being forced to use dark conversion too much.

For NB, you want an incap nerf ? Something like stun removed ? So the combo will be 4 buttons (Poison injection, cloak, Ambush, fear, incap, suprise attack, dodge into reverse slice, dodge into rally, dodge into vigor, cloak and repeat ?)

I keep up mines against stam as mag alike with no issues both in. Cp and non cp.
I can keep it up without using harness, is harness op yes of course but sorc sustain is so easy that you don't need it to keep mines up.

If you don't use dark conversion in the current patch you fail to magsorc. When you are in your mines or streaked twice you can get off atleast 2 DC if you need to.

The removal of the stun adds one GCD which the stamnb has to use to land its burst reliably.
In terms of burst one gcd is huge. I already made the calculations with and without a stun on incap atleast 3 times on these forums.

Try using mines sucessfully as a defense in 1vX. Its far from worth it.
Even if the damage isn't changed, (Which it should, it can be ate too easily) the rearm, but not on same target would make it better against more opposition. It is in one spot, so if you get forced out of it, or an enemy walks round it, or survives it, then you will need to recast. Buff streak/BoL and mines and then shields can get the tone down/counter they need.

Cloak: "Either it breaks and gives you nothing or it saves your ass."
Either it breaks, which means it was countered by a limited ranged AoE, mark, or detect, (if the first, dodge and press it again.) and still mitigates whatever attack was going for it, or it saves your ass completely without even needing a heal in a situation where your low health would need more than just a 1 button wonder to use.

Splitting dot reduction and crit would change cloak well. Much more effective to the class as a whole rather than a single incap change.

You seem to be forgetting that lowering the reduction to 50% won't mean dead NBs dropping like flies,* because cloak already mitigates damage from direct ST attacks totally, and 50% reduction is still a massive amount. If changed to the protection morph then they get another 8% too. The deadly cloak morph will retain crits, so giving a healing boost and a damage boost.

If they want defense, sacrifice offense, like literally every other class. Even shield stackers have to sacrifice more. CLOAK is balanced, the dot invincibility and extra crit portion isn't. At least not with sacrifice.

*Medium stamsorcs can deal with dots too, no purge or dot immortality needed.

Rianai · March 2018

I think, cloak surpressing DoTs and forcing single target skills to miss has more technical reasons than balance purposes, because as it is coded right now, everything that deals dmg to a cloaked nb will break cloak and if it wouldn't break cloak then the dmg numbers from ticking DoTs would still give the nbs position away. Changing this would require a complete overhaul and we all know what tends to happen when ZOS messes with the game ...