Here an NB, there an NB, Everywhere an NB!

Waffennacht

Was playing in BGs last night. I thought to myself, "sure is a lot of NBs in here..."

Checked the players, out of the 12, 7 were NBs
Next match 6 of the 12 NBs
Next match 7 again were NBs
Next match 8 were NBs.

Slotted flare...

But, I remember ZoS being all about how many players use what and where.

Can't help but think there maybe a balance issue when over 50% of the playing field is one class while there are 5 available.

Do you see what I'm seeing?

Vapirko

Battlegrounds is primarily stamblades and the rest is made up of mag dks, magplar tanks and wardens permafrosting just as fast as they can spin their little arms.

Waffennacht

Vapirko wrote: »

Battlegrounds is primarily stamblades and the rest is made up of mag dks, magplar tanks and wardens permafrosting just as fast as they can spin their little arms.

I agree, but I'm also wondering why? In CP BGs I saw A LOT more diversity.

My mind is saying that for some particular reason NBs are chosen for their no CP performance, but I'm not sure why?

I'm still adjusting to no CP BGs again, is it that the CC bugs make NBs a super attractive choice?

lazerlaz

It's hard to see a variety in this game when there are only 5 classes.

In noCP there is more of an advantage on initiating and getting the jump on an enemy player than CP. Something at which a nightblade excels at and why there are so many.

Waffennacht

lazerlaz wrote: »

It's hard to see a variety in this game when there are only 5 classes.

In noCP there is more of an advantage on initiating and getting the jump on an enemy player than CP. Something at which a nightblade excels at and why there are so many.

That's some good advice right there. And very thought provoking, ty

Ragnarock41

lazerlaz wrote: »

It's hard to see a variety in this game when there are only 5 classes.

In noCP there is more of an advantage on initiating and getting the jump on an enemy player than CP. Something at which a nightblade excels at and why there are so many.

except CP campaign is also full of them, so your reasoning fails there.

ak_pvp

BGs now is mainly NB cause lack of CP hurts every other class with scaling defense more. Cloak remains cloak. They also have the best sustain, and obviously, getting the jump as said above.

Better them than the 4 immortal healtank meta last patch. Worked with nearly every game mode too, leech damage with backlash, steal kills with beam, spam heals and block in place.

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Battlegrounds is primarily stamblades and the rest is made up of mag dks, magplar tanks and wardens permafrosting just as fast as they can spin their little arms.

I agree, but I'm also wondering why? In CP BGs I saw A LOT more diversity.

My mind is saying that for some particular reason NBs are chosen for their no CP performance, but I'm not sure why?

I'm still adjusting to no CP BGs again, is it that the CC bugs make NBs a super attractive choice?

It’s this most recent patch. All the best NB counters have been removed. They have no natural predators now. They’re like rats now that the cat has been declawed. The nerf to the NB counters (mag DKs becoming dodgeable, warden birds dodgeable, soul assault losing its root) just happened to coincide with No CP BGs.

In the <Legends> guild on PC NA, the average ratio of NBs to wardens is about 5 to 1. The lowest I saw it yesterday was 3.5 to 1. And keep in mind it’s a biased poll since I’m on warden and always online when I check. For how supposedly OP wardens are, there sure are a lot more NBs in that dueling guild...

ak_pvp

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Battlegrounds is primarily stamblades and the rest is made up of mag dks, magplar tanks and wardens permafrosting just as fast as they can spin their little arms.

I agree, but I'm also wondering why? In CP BGs I saw A LOT more diversity.

My mind is saying that for some particular reason NBs are chosen for their no CP performance, but I'm not sure why?

I'm still adjusting to no CP BGs again, is it that the CC bugs make NBs a super attractive choice?

It’s this most recent patch. All the best NB counters have been removed. They have no natural predators now. They’re like rats now that the cat has been declawed. The nerf to the NB counters (mag DKs becoming dodgeable, warden birds dodgeable, soul assault losing its root) just happened to coincide with No CP BGs.

In the <Legends> guild on PC NA, the average ratio of NBs to wardens is about 5 to 1. The lowest I saw it yesterday was 3.5 to 1. And keep in mind it’s a biased poll since I’m on warden and always online when I check. For how supposedly OP wardens are, there sure are a lot more NBs in that dueling guild...

Warden is a bought class. Its a massive disparity in peoples kill counters too.

Thogard

ak_pvp wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Battlegrounds is primarily stamblades and the rest is made up of mag dks, magplar tanks and wardens permafrosting just as fast as they can spin their little arms.

I agree, but I'm also wondering why? In CP BGs I saw A LOT more diversity.

My mind is saying that for some particular reason NBs are chosen for their no CP performance, but I'm not sure why?

I'm still adjusting to no CP BGs again, is it that the CC bugs make NBs a super attractive choice?

It’s this most recent patch. All the best NB counters have been removed. They have no natural predators now. They’re like rats now that the cat has been declawed. The nerf to the NB counters (mag DKs becoming dodgeable, warden birds dodgeable, soul assault losing its root) just happened to coincide with No CP BGs.

In the <Legends> guild on PC NA, the average ratio of NBs to wardens is about 5 to 1. The lowest I saw it yesterday was 3.5 to 1. And keep in mind it’s a biased poll since I’m on warden and always online when I check. For how supposedly OP wardens are, there sure are a lot more NBs in that dueling guild...

Warden is a bought class. Its a massive disparity in peoples kill counters too.

Everyone keeps saying this.

But anyone who plays battlegrounds also has the warden class. You can’t play BGs without also being able to play warden.

I seriously don’t know a single player that doesn’t own Morrowind.

ak_pvp

Thogard wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Battlegrounds is primarily stamblades and the rest is made up of mag dks, magplar tanks and wardens permafrosting just as fast as they can spin their little arms.

I agree, but I'm also wondering why? In CP BGs I saw A LOT more diversity.

My mind is saying that for some particular reason NBs are chosen for their no CP performance, but I'm not sure why?

I'm still adjusting to no CP BGs again, is it that the CC bugs make NBs a super attractive choice?

It’s this most recent patch. All the best NB counters have been removed. They have no natural predators now. They’re like rats now that the cat has been declawed. The nerf to the NB counters (mag DKs becoming dodgeable, warden birds dodgeable, soul assault losing its root) just happened to coincide with No CP BGs.

In the <Legends> guild on PC NA, the average ratio of NBs to wardens is about 5 to 1. The lowest I saw it yesterday was 3.5 to 1. And keep in mind it’s a biased poll since I’m on warden and always online when I check. For how supposedly OP wardens are, there sure are a lot more NBs in that dueling guild...

Warden is a bought class. Its a massive disparity in peoples kill counters too.

Everyone keeps saying this.

But anyone who plays battlegrounds also has the warden class. You can’t play BGs without also being able to play warden.

I seriously don’t know a single player that doesn’t own Morrowind.

It requires you to buy another slot though. Many players don't. I only have the base 8 slots, and deleted my warden soon after morrow to make room for base classes.

Or it may not be their main as an NB was, since warden is newer. I know there are better options for my playstyle, but I stay DK since I had it from launch, and like its style. The "rouge" type is always the most popular, so people will stick with it, especially if they have had it for longer.

Vapirko

All I know is the lack of CP makes my stam sorc feel pretty lame. All classes need to have the variety of stam and mag skills and morphs that NB has.

Ragnarock41

Vapirko wrote: »

All I know is the lack of CP makes my stam sorc feel pretty lame. All classes need to have the variety of stam and mag skills and morphs that NB has.

to be honest stamsorc has veeery very high sustain+mobility, which is key to victory in no-cp.
It takes a bit more skill than a rolly polly stamblade tho.

Vapirko

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

All I know is the lack of CP makes my stam sorc feel pretty lame. All classes need to have the variety of stam and mag skills and morphs that NB has.

to be honest stamsorc has veeery very high sustain+mobility, which is key to victory in no-cp.
It takes a bit more skill than a rolly polly stamblade tho.

The thing is if your burst doesn’t go through or people decide to permablock there isn’t much you can do unless you have a lot of time which BGs doesn’t really allow. You have no class damage skill so heavy attacks and wrecking blow are he only things you can use to wear people’s health down and they’re both slow so many people can easily shield or heal up in between. The only thing that makes stam sorcs half relevant anymore is hurricane and crit surge. And you have DBoS to make your kill. Templars, wardens and of course NBs, all have a number of skills both damage and utility at their disposal that can be used to turn the tide of a fight. I’m not saying stam sorcs need much, even with little available they can put up a fight,

Lexxypwns

@ak_pvp has it right. The ability to launch a devastating initial strike against an opponent is much more valuable in noCP. It is much harder to recover and reset your health when you take stealth burst and doing so is going to hurt your resources since most spammable defensive mechanics/heals are expensive.

You combine that with NB already having great sustain and both forms of NB being at or near the top of the pvp food chain and BGs catering to the quick get in get out nature of stamblades in particular and it’s only logic.

NB is one of the most popular classes and no-CP BGs puts them in an environment where they can flourish.

DemonDruaga

Best BG i had this weekend whas one without a single nightblade just straight up head smashing without chasing anything.
But lets be real,i enjoy my newly roled stamblade much more than my stam dk, it is just more viable in about every scenario.

rimmidimdim

There are alot of NB. But alot of sorcs too. Maybe for the same reasons. I'm a heavy kinda hybrid( stamina dam based but lots of Max mag and mag Regen) NB. I don't think those are so popular. Maybe I'm wrong.

I will also say though, there are some DK builds, Templars, wardens, that are awesome good builds really good for non CP. Cheers.

Waffennacht

It has just really been surprising. Like to the point where I was wondering if there was a bug being taken advantage of that I didn't know lol.

For the first time in ESO I felt Flare was a viable ability, and it actually is atm

Joy_Division

NBs aren;t going to want to hear this, but they are easily the class that best deals with the no CP.

So ZoS massively nerfs every class such that their power is reliant on a bunch of generic % bonuses and DLC accessible gear. Then ZoS implements a format that keeps the nerfs, takes away the % bonuses, and you need regeneration more than those DLC sets.

Yeah, give me the class that has an escape mechanism independent of power scaling (cloak, teleport), the best innate resource management, and a burst not dependent on gear sets

Minalan

Joy_Division wrote: »

NBs aren;t going to want to hear this, but they are easily the class that best deals with the no CP.

So ZoS massively nerfs every class such that their power is reliant on a bunch of generic % bonuses and DLC accessible gear. Then ZoS implements a format that keeps the nerfs, takes away the % bonuses, and you need regeneration more than those DLC sets.

Yeah, give me the class that has an escape mechanism independent of power scaling (cloak, teleport), the best innate resource management, and a burst not dependent on gear sets

This. Pretty much. Everyone else stopped playing when they took away CP BG’s. I haven’t queued up since the DB patch landed.

Waffennacht

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

NBs aren;t going to want to hear this, but they are easily the class that best deals with the no CP.

So ZoS massively nerfs every class such that their power is reliant on a bunch of generic % bonuses and DLC accessible gear. Then ZoS implements a format that keeps the nerfs, takes away the % bonuses, and you need regeneration more than those DLC sets.

Yeah, give me the class that has an escape mechanism independent of power scaling (cloak, teleport), the best innate resource management, and a burst not dependent on gear sets

This. Pretty much. Everyone else stopped playing when they took away CP BG’s. I haven’t queued up since the DB patch landed.

Here's what bothers the @#$&amp; outta me, practically only @Joy_Division voiced their opinion about BGs staying CP. There was a bunch of people making posts saying they wanted no CP, so ZoS made it no CP

NOW the CP crowd comes outta the wood works! Where were they during the plethora of no CP threads??

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

NBs aren;t going to want to hear this, but they are easily the class that best deals with the no CP.

So ZoS massively nerfs every class such that their power is reliant on a bunch of generic % bonuses and DLC accessible gear. Then ZoS implements a format that keeps the nerfs, takes away the % bonuses, and you need regeneration more than those DLC sets.

Yeah, give me the class that has an escape mechanism independent of power scaling (cloak, teleport), the best innate resource management, and a burst not dependent on gear sets

This. Pretty much. Everyone else stopped playing when they took away CP BG’s. I haven’t queued up since the DB patch landed.

Here's what bothers the @#$&amp; outta me, practically only @Joy_Division voiced their opinion about BGs staying CP. There was a bunch of people making posts saying they wanted no CP, so ZoS made it no CP

NOW the CP crowd comes outta the wood works! Where were they during the plethora of no CP threads??

Most of the pro-CP players are not very talented (JD is good - not referring to him) or were not very logical with their arguments. The people that tended to be pro-CP also tended to become people who hated the BGs after the BGs became CP - they just whines about something else.

I’m glad the BGs are No CP again. Nightblades are OP and over represented in both CP and No CP. I personally don’t notice a difference in how strong NBs are between the two... the nice thing about No CP is that there is no befoul passive.. and that’s one of the things that makes them so strong in CP.

ak_pvp

Joy_Division wrote: »

NBs aren;t going to want to hear this, but they are easily the class that best deals with the no CP.

So ZoS massively nerfs every class such that their power is reliant on a bunch of generic % bonuses and DLC accessible gear. Then ZoS implements a format that keeps the nerfs, takes away the % bonuses, and you need regeneration more than those DLC sets.

Yeah, give me the class that has an escape mechanism independent of power scaling (cloak, teleport), the best innate resource management, and a burst not dependent on gear sets

Cloak is in principle the best designed ability in game. It has no arbitrary numerical limit that which breaks it and makes it useless against higher targets, and no scaling, so works well for really any playstyle. Its for the most part its weaknesses are discreet, so countering, and dealing with counters are based of player skill.

Unless using mark/detect pots but that is just shieldbreaker level bad design. AoEs as a hard counter aren't as "hard" as something like pulse to shimmering/wings, since AoEs can be avoided, allowing the ability to outplay even cloak breaker spammers.

Counters aside its features like the total mit/untargetability, dot suppression and crit make it incredibly strong.

Sharee

Block? CP buffs it (and thus no-CP nerfs it).
Shields? Healing? Ditto.

Cloak? Does not care. I'm surprised it was just 8 out of 12...

ak_pvp

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

NBs aren;t going to want to hear this, but they are easily the class that best deals with the no CP.

So ZoS massively nerfs every class such that their power is reliant on a bunch of generic % bonuses and DLC accessible gear. Then ZoS implements a format that keeps the nerfs, takes away the % bonuses, and you need regeneration more than those DLC sets.

Yeah, give me the class that has an escape mechanism independent of power scaling (cloak, teleport), the best innate resource management, and a burst not dependent on gear sets

This. Pretty much. Everyone else stopped playing when they took away CP BG’s. I haven’t queued up since the DB patch landed.

Here's what bothers the @#$&amp; outta me, practically only @Joy_Division voiced their opinion about BGs staying CP. There was a bunch of people making posts saying they wanted no CP, so ZoS made it no CP

NOW the CP crowd comes outta the wood works! Where were they during the plethora of no CP threads??

Most of the pro-CP players are not very talented (JD is good - not referring to him) or were not very logical with their arguments. The people that tended to be pro-CP also tended to become people who hated the BGs after the BGs became CP - they just whines about something else.

I’m glad the BGs are No CP again. Nightblades are OP and over represented in both CP and No CP. I personally don’t notice a difference in how strong NBs are between the two... the nice thing about No CP is that there is no befoul passive.. and that’s one of the things that makes them so strong in CP.

I doubt its a talent thing, I prefer noCP BGs for the crowd and less impossible wins if going against a premade max CP group of minmaxed meta players who as a group can be effectively untouchable, which just isn't fun in a fast dynamic objective based gamemode. NoCP for openworld/generally is awful, 3/5 classes can hardly compete due to being balanced (Read:nerfed) around CP. Warden being partially overtuned, and NB having non scaling/numerically limited defenses means they will be better off.

Brutusmax1mus

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

NBs aren;t going to want to hear this, but they are easily the class that best deals with the no CP.

So ZoS massively nerfs every class such that their power is reliant on a bunch of generic % bonuses and DLC accessible gear. Then ZoS implements a format that keeps the nerfs, takes away the % bonuses, and you need regeneration more than those DLC sets.

Yeah, give me the class that has an escape mechanism independent of power scaling (cloak, teleport), the best innate resource management, and a burst not dependent on gear sets

This. Pretty much. Everyone else stopped playing when they took away CP BG’s. I haven’t queued up since the DB patch landed.

Here's what bothers the @#$&amp; outta me, practically only @Joy_Division voiced their opinion about BGs staying CP. There was a bunch of people making posts saying they wanted no CP, so ZoS made it no CP

NOW the CP crowd comes outta the wood works! Where were they during the plethora of no CP threads??

I supported cp bgs too, main point was diversity.

On your op, night blades are also extremely new player appealing by class design. They also appeal to a younger audience imo, but that's simply opinion. Stealth game play and high damage make it highly functional, fun to play, and seem "cool"

Joy_Division

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

NBs aren;t going to want to hear this, but they are easily the class that best deals with the no CP.

So ZoS massively nerfs every class such that their power is reliant on a bunch of generic % bonuses and DLC accessible gear. Then ZoS implements a format that keeps the nerfs, takes away the % bonuses, and you need regeneration more than those DLC sets.

Yeah, give me the class that has an escape mechanism independent of power scaling (cloak, teleport), the best innate resource management, and a burst not dependent on gear sets

This. Pretty much. Everyone else stopped playing when they took away CP BG’s. I haven’t queued up since the DB patch landed.

Here's what bothers the @#$&amp; outta me, practically only @Joy_Division voiced their opinion about BGs staying CP. There was a bunch of people making posts saying they wanted no CP, so ZoS made it no CP

NOW the CP crowd comes outta the wood works! Where were they during the plethora of no CP threads??

Well, it is what it is.

CP BGs were a mess too. A different type of mess where I felt any character I played was effective, nevertheless still a mess.

The problem as I see it is that ZoS is dedicated to an end-game system that is very dubious when it comes to balance and power progression (the Champion System). It has broken both PvE and PvP gameplay and has required Zos to nerf practically every build in existence.

A lot of people like to think that because the CP system is flawed, removing it would improve the game. But it doesn't. All it does is makes us play with all those massive nerfs without all those % bonuses we received that justified those nerfs in the first place. If your class or archetype isn't FOTM or has trouble functioning in open world, you're pretty much out of luck because no CP forces you to make too many sacrifices and limits your options

So basically it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of thing.

Cinbri

Cyro not different from bgs - feels like 50% of game population are nightblades, where 90% are stamina nightblades.

BohnT

Cinbri wrote: »

Cyro not different from bgs - feels like 50% of game population are nightblades, where 90% are stamina nightblades.

And atleast 90% of the stamnbs are khajiits

It's pretty clear why stamnb is as popular in PvP atm, you can win atleast 40% of all fights without being attacked by your enemy, When you have multiple nbs outnumbering one enemy this goes to almost 90%, with 2 stamnbs you can instagib almost every build that could hurt you as a stamnb.
Also killing an opponent with a stamnb is much easier than with any other class.
You don't have to waste as much damage potential for survivability than you'd have to do for any other class.
1.6k magregen+15k Max magicka are enough to cloak 9 times (27 seconds of invisibility)
As you don't need to get your resistances to a good level you can stack everything into regen+ dmg/ Max stam which gives you in conjunction with cloak more healing than most brawler classes can get.
While it's lagging (always) stamnb has the next huge advantage, SA is a high damage spammable with no cast time meaning it will land in lag more often than dizzying swing, and it'll hit harder than other spammables.
Incaps CC is buggy even with a good latency and will makes it impossible for you to get out ----> you die
And because skills don't fire as smoothly as they should in lag shuffle+cloak+ dodge makes stamnbs more tanky than a stand your ground class.

So stamnb has better damage potential in lag while gaining lots of survivability through the lag.

In BGS I'm not surprised by the waves of stamnb, with good ulti gen through kills and potions and easy kills with incap they're always lethal when they don't have to defend an objective. Shade is another God sentence for bgs, there are lots of walls and corners, different ground levels which makes it all the more sweeter with stamnb.

However i fear Stamwarden just as much as stamnbs because their loadout was designed to shine in BGs.
Shalks deal great damage, with the ulti gen you can either nuke people or stay alive as long as you want with trees, you can ignore all ranged classes and with major expedition you can get from objective to objective really fast

Vermintide

I wouldn't be complaining, from where I'm sitting it seems like most stamblades are total scrubs, and pretty much free kills if you catch them out of stealth.

The proportion of GOOD players seems to be pretty equal across classes IMO. I find myself getting wrecked constantly by some stamsorcs and warden players.

thankyourat

I find it funny that a lot of the ESO community think stamina nightblade is a little OP when in reality the Magicka variant is the one that's top tier. Especially 1v1 really only mag dk and wardens are better. Stamblade is really a middle of the pack class like mag sorc. Both get so much hate on the forums for no real reason.

As for no cp I will agree stamblades are stronger but I still don't have any problems fighting them there either. I think nightblade in general is just popular. not because it's good but because stamblade in particular is just easy to pick up and play. Against experienced opponents though it wouldn't be a class i would want to use.