Lynx7386 wrote: »

The problem is valuing recovery versus other stats. Yes, 7 divines with atronach or serpent will 125 (your numbers are a little off) recovery, but most people using divines gear are not focusing on recovery or using the atronach stone with it - they're using a damage mundus and getting far more benefit out of it.

Actually, I'm not surprised my numbers are slightly off. I probably worked it out without taking into account how CP affects recovery too.

I had an idea they could change the trait to increase light attack & heavy attack damage.

or they could go back to the Weighted trait and heavy & light attacks are faster !

I think ZOS made it garbage on purpose. People complained that its predecessor, Prosperous, had no value for combat so they decided to make it a combat-related trait while still being garbage and diluting the loot pool.

The linked thread basically had the guy suggesting that invigorating would give a different resource based on what type of armor it was put on. Instead of 11 to all 3, a medium armor piece would get 33 stamina recovery, a light armor piece would get 33 magicka recovery, and a heavy armor piece would get 33 health recovery.

now, I mostly like that idea as a change to the trait, except for the heavy armor part. I'll admit I'm not big on pvp so I dont really care much what people use heavy armor for there, but for me heavy is meant for tanking. Tanking does not benefit from health recovery at all (nor does any other build in this game, really). Health recovery is a terrible stat and even if you 100% build for health recovery to the exclusion of all other stats, you wont even match up to a single basic heal in terms of gain over time.

It would be much more beneficial for tanks to have heavy armor split the difference between magicka and stamina. That might make it useful.

So, change invigorating to this:

Light armor: + 15/21/27/33 magicka recovery with invigorating trait
Medium armor: + 15/21/27/33 stamina recovery with invigorating trait
Heavy armor & shields: + 8/11/14/17 stamina and magicka recovery with invigorating trait

An all gold medium or light armor invigorating set (7 pieces) would get 231 additional stamina or magicka recovery. An all gold heavy armor invigorating set would get 119 stamina and magicka recovery. Add in a shield and that goes to 136 stamina and magicka recovery for a full heavy tank. More likely you'll have one light and one medium piece on a tank, plus the shield, which would be 85/85 from 5pc heavy, 17/17 from the shield, 33 magicka from the light armor, and 33 stamina from the heavy armor, for a total of 135 stamina and magicka recovery on an all invigorating tank setup.

Still though, not sure it'd be worth using over divines/infused/sturdy. Especially over infused for a pve tank.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

The linked thread basically had the guy suggesting that invigorating would give a different resource based on what type of armor it was put on. Instead of 11 to all 3, a medium armor piece would get 33 stamina recovery, a light armor piece would get 33 magicka recovery, and a heavy armor piece would get 33 health recovery.

now, I mostly like that idea as a change to the trait, except for the heavy armor part. I'll admit I'm not big on pvp so I dont really care much what people use heavy armor for there, but for me heavy is meant for tanking. Tanking does not benefit from health recovery at all (nor does any other build in this game, really). Health recovery is a terrible stat and even if you 100% build for health recovery to the exclusion of all other stats, you wont even match up to a single basic heal in terms of gain over time.

It would be much more beneficial for tanks to have heavy armor split the difference between magicka and stamina. That might make it useful.

So, change invigorating to this:

Light armor: + 15/21/27/33 magicka recovery with invigorating trait
Medium armor: + 15/21/27/33 stamina recovery with invigorating trait
Heavy armor & shields: + 8/11/14/17 stamina and magicka recovery with invigorating trait

An all gold medium or light armor invigorating set (7 pieces) would get 231 additional stamina or magicka recovery. An all gold heavy armor invigorating set would get 119 stamina and magicka recovery. Add in a shield and that goes to 136 stamina and magicka recovery for a full heavy tank. More likely you'll have one light and one medium piece on a tank, plus the shield, which would be 85/85 from 5pc heavy, 17/17 from the shield, 33 magicka from the light armor, and 33 stamina from the heavy armor, for a total of 135 stamina and magicka recovery on an all invigorating tank setup.

Still though, not sure it'd be worth using over divines/infused/sturdy. Especially over infused for a pve tank.

This speaks volumes for how horrible health regeneration is in this game and in part why I have a problem with Vampires.

Increase the regen for the one lowest stat of the char. Plus give it a slight boost.

I wonder if it would have been more useful had zos not made PvE dps rely on heavy attacking anyway. I could see it being useful in a version of ESO where it helps support sustained fast paced dps. Possibly. I could see TBS set working well around in such a situation.

I doubt they'll change it again since I'm pretty sure the devs held a contest to come up with the most useless trait possible and invigorating was the winner.

It should probably just be increased to 15 recovery. So 7 gold pieces results in 105 tri-recovery (slightly less than the 124 single resource recovery from Atro + 7 divines). It might see some use on Hybrid, Tank, or PVP builds then.

In general I think armor traits should be more impactful (like weapon traits are). Most DPS use 7 divines with Warrior or Apprentice and the total 124 weapon/spell damage affects DPS by less than 3%. This could easily be doubled so that a single perfect-trait gear piece is roughly 1% higher DPS than a piece with no trait at all.

Something along the lines of:
Divines: 20% mundus increase
Infused: 50% enchant increase
Invig: 40 tri-recovery
Sturdy: 5-6% maybe? (counteract recent indirect nerf)
Reinforced: 40% increase to armor piece
Nirn: 900-1000 resistance
Training and Well-Fitted: Can't even guess at the numbers here, would have to be buffed some to stay competitive

I think this would help with build diversity too, since 7 of the same thing would not be needed to see an impact. And also swapping in one of a trait would be noticeable.

Actually, stray thought, why not simply have it boost one recovery stat (based on @nijey's idea) and also boost the associated max stat. So, heavy armor gets health recovery, and health, light gets max magicka and magicka recovery, medium gets max stamina and stamina recovery, with shields either getting health + health recovery, or getting tristat buffs.

starkerealm wrote: »

Actually, stray thought, why not simply have it boost one recovery stat (based on @nijey's idea) and also boost the associated max stat. So, heavy armor gets health recovery, and health, light gets max magicka and magicka recovery, medium gets max stamina and stamina recovery, with shields either getting health + health recovery, or getting tristat buffs.

I like this idea but they seriously need to make Health regeneration actually be a good stat. This is a big reason why I find a problem with Vampires in general. Vampires can easily mitigate the fire damage (I play a lot of them, please people don't bs me about how hard it is to be a Vampire). Vampire health regeneration loss is easily replaced by the health return you get from spamming things like Vigor, Forward Momentum, Spores, Dragon Blood, etc. This health regen loss is greatly made up for by giving the player 10% more magic and stamina regeneration which helps you whether you're a stamina build or a magicka build. Finally, if you have enough baseline health undeath becomes hugely beneficial. This is all without including the magicka escape, cc, and a nice mob based ulti-heal. In order to placate all of the dps-monkeys out there they have also buffed the hell out of Defile by nerfing health regeneration, an already dog stat. The problem was other abilities and not health regeneration. I recognize that Health regen could become out of control but I really think there are other problems in the game that are far worse. In short, if they were to do what you suggest @starkerealm I would really hope that they revisit and improve health regeneration, because otherwise I do believe heavy armor would be getting short changed.

starkerealm wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

(I play a lot of them, please people don't bs me about how hard it is to be a Vampire).

Why would I? I've got, like, eight.

Though, seriously, health regen probably is the least important stat in the game after Oblivion resistance. I'm not sure what an overhaul to it would look like, but the way healing works makes it completely irrelevant. The only thought that comes to mind is to scale healing received with health recovery, but that sounds like a horrific idea.

Oh, I wasn't singling you out, I was just pre-empting the hate messages that were going to instantly be received by people who can't enjoy Vampire and also see the flaws with it.