Azyle1 wrote: »

Stamblade here btw -

1 - "The VMA bow will drastically increase my DPS."

It did not. Poisons to my bow did more than the weapon itself.

Did you put volley on your bar?

Having an effective rotation will make the biggest difference. BIS gear can boost an efficient rotation. BIS gear won't fix an inefficient rotation. (I should know, since I finally found an efficient rotation for my stam sorc and it really made a world of difference.

1. VMA bow boosts one skill.

In some of my parses that skill can account for 25% of my DPS. Let's say that is always the case. Boosting this one skill by - let's make up a number - 50% == 50% * 25% = 12.5% of total DPS or let's say 2k-3k for an average player. Is it significant? Yes. Does it completely change the situation? No. And I don't think VMA bow boosts Hail by 50%, but I haven't tested the numbers to be honest.

I know, I know. "Math is hard - let's go to the mall!"(TM)

2. War Machine will increase your DPS vs. what? With what setup? With what rotation?

I mean, in a spherical vacuum, yes, WM should do quite well for Stamblades given Incapacitating Strike. But if you had to change your rotation because of sustain, well, that's where the "lost" DPS gain went. For example. Without more details, however, this is basically the equivalent of someone standing on their front porch yelling at a cloud.

I've pretty much given up on vMA, so good to hear that it's not as huge a deal to get that stupid bow as everyone says. I know it would be a dps increase, but honestly I doubt it's going to account for more than 5% of my overall damage output, especially when my rotation only keeps about 75-85% uptime on endless hail and a pretty big portion of my damage is coming from other dots and effects (hurricane, caltrops, trap, slashes, shrouded daggers, deadly cloak, etc).

I've settled on maybe getting an asylum or master bow instead, but I'm not sure those are going to be worth it either.

Morgul667 wrote: »

well it does increase dps for most people

Sure, but I feel like it's way over exaggerated. Many believe it's going to be like a 5K DPS increase when it's like... 800. I also know someone will say, "Well its' your rotation" But, I find it hard to believe that someone whom isn't even max CP (615) and hits 42K without pen stuff on the dummy has a fundamentally flawed rotation.

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

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Azyle1 wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

well it does increase dps for most people

Sure, but I feel like it's way over exaggerated. Many believe it's going to be like a 5K DPS increase when it's like... 800. I also know someone will say, "Well its' your rotation" But, I find it hard to believe that someone whom isn't even max CP (615) and hits 42K without pen stuff on the dummy has a fundamentally flawed rotation.

It will drastically increase your dps, just not as much on single target. Remember, a dummy parse isn’t a realistic trial scenario, it just tests efficiency. Having one of your few AoE damage attacks as stam get a boost is a significant boon. In the aggregate, that double poison with the added Maelstrom damage is very noticeable. People have tried similar boost methods with Master’s Bow/Asylum bow in trial settings and the damage is a big drop. Long story short, there isn’t a better bow than Maelstrom for PvE DPS. If min-maxing (which is the DPS thing to do), then it’s still your best option.


Side note: If you’re having sustain issues with a Stamblade I’d work Leeching Strikes into your rotation (back bar).

Thanks for the insight.

Also I do run leeching on the bow bar. I get the most "DPS" when I run leeching plus dubious throne stam food. But I only have like 15K HP, which I'm not sure if that is too low or not. It's when I use blue normal stam food, is where the sustain issues come in.

On most builds, matter bow is just as good as a vMA bow, a bit worse, but almost as good in single target:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/394129/testing-the-master-bow-vs-the-maelstrom-bow#latest

vMA bow gives you about a 1.3k-1.5k dps increase in single target. The master bow is somewhat the same.

So the phrase "vMA bow or nothing" is basically false. It mighty still be ideal, but in fights where the boss moves a lot or you have a lot of switching targets: Master Bow > vMA bow.

The vMA bow only gets to it's full potential when you have the target stand in hail for the full duration. Master bow on the other hand stays on and empowers your dots, no matter where the target goes.

Azyle1 wrote: »

LA, TRap, LA, Hail, LA, Poison Injection, LA Caltrops, (Incap strike if up), switch
Surprise (bow proc when able.. I get 2 per recast), la, rending, la, surprise, la, surprise, la, cloak, repeat.

Heavy attack if I need to.

It is somewhat close to Alcast's, btw, if that matters any.

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Sixty5 wrote: »

What is your rotation like, and what was your DPS at before you ran that gear?

On a good rotation I would get 40.7K - 41K. I'm getting like 42 - 43K now.

Your rotation is wrong . Most important thing while playing a Stamina class is making sure you get the most damage out of Endless Hail . If you use Trap first , you will get few last ticks of Endless Hail on your back bar , reducing their damage a lot . You need to let the last tick of Endless Hail hit on your front bar , swap immediately and apply it again . While doing DPS , you should have priorities . Highest damaging skills should be maximized at all costs .

Using Trap before Endless Hail is a bad habit that is because of old Maelstrom Dual Wield meta . Trap wouldn't consume the buff but still get buffed so you would put Trap > Hail > Poison Injection to boost both Trap and Injection . It is not the case anymore but people still do it for whatever reason . You are not using vMA bow the way it is supposed to be used . I highly suggest watching this video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QCV-TG5iiI

It is kind of a dynamic rotation but there are still things you do in a specific order .

Liofa wrote: »

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Azyle1 wrote: »

LA, TRap, LA, Hail, LA, Poison Injection, LA Caltrops, (Incap strike if up), switch
Surprise (bow proc when able.. I get 2 per recast), la, rending, la, surprise, la, surprise, la, cloak, repeat.

Heavy attack if I need to.

It is somewhat close to Alcast's, btw, if that matters any.

Sixty5 wrote: »

What is your rotation like, and what was your DPS at before you ran that gear?

On a good rotation I would get 40.7K - 41K. I'm getting like 42 - 43K now.

Your rotation is wrong . Most important thing while playing a Stamina class is making sure you get the most damage out of Endless Hail . If you use Trap first , you will get few last ticks of Endless Hail on your back bar , reducing their damage a lot . You need to let the last tick of Endless Hail hit on your front bar , swap immediately and apply it again . While doing DPS , you should have priorities . Highest damaging skills should be maximized at all costs .

Using Trap before Endless Hail is a bad habit that is because of old Maelstrom Dual Wield meta . Trap wouldn't consume the buff but still get buffed so you would put Trap > Hail > Poison Injection to boost both Trap and Injection . It is not the case anymore but people still do it for whatever reason . You are not using vMA bow the way it is supposed to be used . I highly suggest watching this video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QCV-TG5iiI

It is kind of a dynamic rotation but there are still things you do in a specific order .

Yeah, I've heard that before. However, I'm not really doing much different other than using trap then hail. Here is the thing. I just tried switching to that and honestly, nothing really changed. Using hail first didn't really change my DPS for better or worse. I it's better since it's a change I"m not quite used to, but not a lot. I'm not getting ~4K dps out of this chance.

That said, I imagine I will get another 1-2K dps from CP alone (roughly 35 more CP in the blue true I have left). SO we will see after that.

Also - couple things. This dude is doing 46K dps, right? I'm doing about 42 - 43K. SO I'm ~3K behind. He is also a redgaurd, which to my knowledge is much better than khajiit right now. So let's say after I get max CP I get only 1K dps. and let's say the difference between redgaurd/Khajiit is ~1.5K. I'm not far behind then. I have no problem with advice, I welcome it, but I have a suspicion that people are coming in here and trying to tell me I don't know how to play, which is laughable, considering it seems the majority of the board struggles to hit 35K DPS. So advice is great, but anything thinking I am a moron is foolish.

All I was trying to say is that the VMA bow and to a lesser extent WM was this fabled thing that all these people were like "Yeah man, you're DPS will increase by SO MUCH" and while it certainly increases it... it isn't as big of a deal as others. Had I not gone the VMA bow on my 4th try, I would consider it almost a waste of time given how frustrating and random VMA is... that's kinda the point of this topic I guess.

Edit: I have noticed that a lot of people are using storm fist now. So Maybe I'll look into that too.

Its like 5k at top end with group buffs.

For war machine you need to make sure incap I backbarred so u cast it and bar swap to give acuity max dps also raid buffs will boost cms bow waaaaay more than master

Mister_DMC wrote: »

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SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

well it does increase dps for most people

Sure, but I feel like it's way over exaggerated. Many believe it's going to be like a 5K DPS increase when it's like... 800. I also know someone will say, "Well its' your rotation" But, I find it hard to believe that someone whom isn't even max CP (615) and hits 42K without pen stuff on the dummy has a fundamentally flawed rotation.

It will drastically increase your dps, just not as much on single target. Remember, a dummy parse isn’t a realistic trial scenario, it just tests efficiency. Having one of your few AoE damage attacks as stam get a boost is a significant boon. In the aggregate, that double poison with the added Maelstrom damage is very noticeable. People have tried similar boost methods with Master’s Bow/Asylum bow in trial settings and the damage is a big drop. Long story short, there isn’t a better bow than Maelstrom for PvE DPS. If min-maxing (which is the DPS thing to do), then it’s still your best option.


Side note: If you’re having sustain issues with a Stamblade I’d work Leeching Strikes into your rotation (back bar).

You are 100% correct. Stam lacks cleave damage, VMA bow is a large increase to your biggest aoe dot and therefore most important skill. Every Stam toon that wants to be taken seriously for vet trials needs a that bow. No questions asked. Also if someone can't beat VMA as a stamina character they should continue to bang their head against the wall until they can. VMA is a true Mechanics learning curve and situational awareness test. I'm my eyes for dlc trials and hardmodes it's essential to complete it.

To the OP I don't see what the problem is, people's math is often way off. The increases for your new gear are right within where they should be. You're nearing the DPS ceiling for Stamblade anyways and now two of your allies will have major slayer. Continue to progress and know that any increase in dps from now on is solely coming from you mastering your class.

Just a quick insight: Many stam players switch to 2h for trash. You dont die due to brawler and have significantly more AoE.

Masel92 wrote: »

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Mister_DMC wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

well it does increase dps for most people

Sure, but I feel like it's way over exaggerated. Many believe it's going to be like a 5K DPS increase when it's like... 800. I also know someone will say, "Well its' your rotation" But, I find it hard to believe that someone whom isn't even max CP (615) and hits 42K without pen stuff on the dummy has a fundamentally flawed rotation.

It will drastically increase your dps, just not as much on single target. Remember, a dummy parse isn’t a realistic trial scenario, it just tests efficiency. Having one of your few AoE damage attacks as stam get a boost is a significant boon. In the aggregate, that double poison with the added Maelstrom damage is very noticeable. People have tried similar boost methods with Master’s Bow/Asylum bow in trial settings and the damage is a big drop. Long story short, there isn’t a better bow than Maelstrom for PvE DPS. If min-maxing (which is the DPS thing to do), then it’s still your best option.


Side note: If you’re having sustain issues with a Stamblade I’d work Leeching Strikes into your rotation (back bar).

You are 100% correct. Stam lacks cleave damage, VMA bow is a large increase to your biggest aoe dot and therefore most important skill. Every Stam toon that wants to be taken seriously for vet trials needs a that bow. No questions asked. Also if someone can't beat VMA as a stamina character they should continue to bang their head against the wall until they can. VMA is a true Mechanics learning curve and situational awareness test. I'm my eyes for dlc trials and hardmodes it's essential to complete it.

To the OP I don't see what the problem is, people's math is often way off. The increases for your new gear are right within where they should be. You're nearing the DPS ceiling for Stamblade anyways and now two of your allies will have major slayer. Continue to progress and know that any increase in dps from now on is solely coming from you mastering your class.

Just a quick insight: Many stam players switch to 2h for trash. You dont die due to brawler and have significantly more AoE.

Love playing 2h but sadly we console players don't have the add ons to support quickly swapping setups

So here is a question. Rough how much more dps would Redguard be over Khajiit?

Liofa wrote: »

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Azyle1 wrote: »

So here is a question. Rough how much more dps would Redguard be over Khajiit?

There isn't and won't be a specific number Redguard will get over Khajiit . Here is why :

Main DPS increase is in the sustain , not Stamina . While 8% Critical is huge , it doesn't work during the Acuity proc so Khajiit is in a disadvantage there . The difference between 8% Critical and 10% Max Stamina is minimal . We have seen this before Acuity wasn't even in the game . I highly doubt it is even a single percentage . It depends on group buffs too , a really high Major Force uptime might make Khajiit stronger in short fights . Again , you don't really have to think about these as Redguard sustain is the main factor that increases DPS . More sustain = longer light attack rotation . More light attacks = more DPS . Simple as that . It all depends on group buffs and combat lenght . I've seen Khajiits pull more than Redguards in short fights but they almost always fall behind in longer and/or mechanic heavy fights . So you can't really say ''Redguard does this much more DPS'' , it is just foolish to do so .

I'm just saying, if I test redgaurd on a 3 million dummy and get like 2K higher DPS, I would consider switching. But it seems that may not be the case, so I'll keep the kitty and save the money.