Do you believe the Invigorating Trait should be Revisited by ZoS Developers?

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2018

In my view this trait is a throwaway trait. I can't imagine any build where this trait would be worthwhile in any mixture: 5 pcs, 1 pc, 7 pcs. Its always better to do something else. This seems unfortunate to me as this would be a good trait for builds that have a sustain issue, tanks, etc.

Avran_Sylt · March 2018

Could just make it increase the % resource return on Heavy Attacks.

FrancisCrawford · March 2018

The numbers are way too low.

Aliyavana · March 2018

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Could just make it increase the % resource return on Heavy Attacks.

This

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

Its totally useless, revisit it, but PLEASE DO NOT MAKE IT BROKEN.

Nestor · March 2018

This poor trait slot. No matter what ZOS does with it, it is not popular. Usually for a good reason.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Its totally useless, revisit it, but PLEASE DO NOT MAKE IT BROKEN.

I agree. I just find it annoying that its such a worthless set. I truly can't think of anyone wanting this on their gear. Training is better.

Metafae · March 2018

It's actually not that far off from the amount of regen added by a divines piece with a regen mundus. If I remember correctly, divines with Atronach adds about 19 magic regen at gold. Invigorating adds 11 to all three stats at gold.

If it were buffed to 15 instead of 11, I'd say it'd be worth my healer using it.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2018

Metafae wrote: »

It's actually not that far off from the amount of regen added by a divines piece with a regen mundus. If I remember correctly, divines with Atronach adds about 19 magic regen at gold. Invigorating adds 11 to all three stats at gold.

If it were buffed to 15 instead of 11, I'd say it'd be worth my healer using it.

One set bonus can outshine all of the regeneration on all armors. I can't see how this would ever be useful.

Avran_Sylt · March 2018

And if it ever becomes % resource return, I'd have it go up to +100% if all Legendary(7) and with a shield(1).
(12.5% legendary value per piece)
(6.5%/8%/9.5%/11%/12.5%)

VilniusNastavnik · March 2018

It was honestly better as Prosperous. At least then you could just dive into the vile manse on a stamsorc and make some easy gold whilst CP farming.. now it's trash.

Looking at the other traits:
Armor:
Divines: Go to for PvE DPS
Impen: Go to for PvP
Infused: Go to for support classes (Tanks and Healers) on large pieces
Nirnhoned: Sometimes used on Tank shields instead of infused
Reinforced: See Nirnhoned
Sturdy: Go to for Tanks on small pieces
Training: Go to for speed levelling new toons / skills on max level toons at dolments.
Well Fitted: Go to for designated thieves (Seriously, if your thief is not a Khajiit, vampire, magblade, wearing 5 pce Night Mother's Embrace, 3 Night terror in well fitted, you're doing it wrong)

As it stands, only Invigorating is trash. The rest have a use. That being said, Weapon sets have Weighted and Defending as trash traits.

Metafae · March 2018

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

It's actually not that far off from the amount of regen added by a divines piece with a regen mundus. If I remember correctly, divines with Atronach adds about 19 magic regen at gold. Invigorating adds 11 to all three stats at gold.

If it were buffed to 15 instead of 11, I'd say it'd be worth my healer using it.

One set bonus can outshine all of the regeneration on all armors. I can't see how this would ever be useful.

But we're not talking about set bonuses here. Traits should only be compared to other traits.

I've already had a conversation about this trait with friends of mine working out the math on it. It appears to be absolute trash at first because of 11 per stat at gold seems like nothing.
But as a healer using divines on small pieces with the Atronach mundus, you're only adding 19 Magic regen on each piece of divines.

If it were to be buffed straight to 19 per stat, you're looking at a trait that is by far way better than divines on a healer.
Not only would it do exactly what divines would do, but it's also giving that same bonus to stamina and health recovery.

If it gets a buff, they would have to be careful by how much.

As some people suggested here, make it increase % resource gain on HA, this seems more interesting.

Except how about keep the 11 regen as it is and add say 2% extra resource gain on HA per piece.

This would make it quite competitive.

Solariken · March 2018

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Could just make it increase the % resource return on Heavy Attacks.

Or what about making it a flat resource restore on light and heavy attacks but as BOTH magicka and stamina (like the old NB Siphoning Strikes)?

Slick_007 · March 2018

iv been looking at a lot of pricing and some stuff sells decently with invigorating. If anything, id suggest a very very small increase. like 1.
there are cases where its useful. You just need some imagination

i never thought much of shadow dancer set, but now i use it for heists and sacrements. places im almost always sneaking
flanking set - not my set for soloing, but for a group with a tank, it can work. im generally behind the mob anyways here.
When you think about stuff you dont normally do you can find ways to use them.

i use regen, night terror and shadow dancer together. two of those i used to write off as no use. Til i decided my gear wasnt doing something i wanted and had a big look at other sets and traits. invigorating here is better because i regen more while still as well, whereas well fitted just reduces my sprint cost. i dont do a lot of sprinting in heists/sacrements.

Acrolas · March 2018

Really, the only two options for Invigorating as a recovery option were for it to underperform or overperform. And if it overperformed it would have been nerfed until it underperformed again.

I'd be okay with Invigorating keeping its current name and values but transforming into a boost to both mount stamina and mount capacity while worn. Which would make it a valid support trait in both PVE and PVP.

Probably won't see entire Legendary sets of it, but people wearing a piece or two is better than not wearing it at all.

phaneub17_ESO · March 2018

How does it fair with Willow's Path?

Avran_Sylt · March 2018

Solariken wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Could just make it increase the % resource return on Heavy Attacks.

Or what about making it a flat resource restore on light and heavy attacks but as BOTH magicka and stamina (like the old NB Siphoning Strikes)?

@Solariken

Flat resource return on both attacks would indeed make it better for non-tanking roles, but this would also allow players to light-weave while blocking in PvP. Arguably though, this would be solved by the Siphoner CP star.

So yeah, flat resource return on Light and Heavy attacks would probably be very nice. The question is though: what should the return amount be?

recall that at maximum you can have 8 pieces of gear with this trait....

Wait a minute, how about this?

Armor: Your Light and Heavy attacks restore [x] Health, Magicka, and Stamina

Weapon: Your Heavy Attacks Restore [x]% more Resources

Oh... Right, Yeah, nyx the weapon one, invigorating isn't a weapon trait.

WakeYourGhost · March 2018

How about we just make it a % regen increase?
At least then a few pieces could affect low sustain builds slightly?

Or, make it a Farming trait - Increase drop quality chance?

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

iv been looking at a lot of pricing and some stuff sells decently with invigorating. If anything, id suggest a very very small increase. like 1.
there are cases where its useful. You just need some imagination

Thats not called imagination, thats called gimping yourself on purpose.
The idea of giving players another source of regen is cool. But this trait is just a total waste.
If it was at least somewhat viable, I would probably use a piece or two on some really low regen builds instead of having the classic 2 sturdy, or 2 well-fittet for my pvp builds.

generalmyrick · March 2018

Metafae wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

It's actually not that far off from the amount of regen added by a divines piece with a regen mundus. If I remember correctly, divines with Atronach adds about 19 magic regen at gold. Invigorating adds 11 to all three stats at gold.

If it were buffed to 15 instead of 11, I'd say it'd be worth my healer using it.

One set bonus can outshine all of the regeneration on all armors. I can't see how this would ever be useful.

But we're not talking about set bonuses here. Traits should only be compared to other traits.

I've already had a conversation about this trait with friends of mine working out the math on it. It appears to be absolute trash at first because of 11 per stat at gold seems like nothing.
But as a healer using divines on small pieces with the Atronach mundus, you're only adding 19 Magic regen on each piece of divines.

If it were to be buffed straight to 19 per stat, you're looking at a trait that is by far way better than divines on a healer.
Not only would it do exactly what divines would do, but it's also giving that same bonus to stamina and health recovery.

If it gets a buff, they would have to be careful by how much.

As some people suggested here, make it increase % resource gain on HA, this seems more interesting.

Except how about keep the 11 regen as it is and add say 2% extra resource gain on HA per piece.

This would make it quite competitive.

shhhhhhhhhhhh...don't tell them...i follow these threads to make sure these fine individual don't learn of its power! :-)
=====================

INVIG IS TRASH!! !! DONT USSES IT!!!!! IMPEN, DIVIIIINNES.S.....

Patrickaus · March 2018

"(Seriously, if your thief is not a Khajiit, vampire, magblade, wearing 5 pce Night Mother's Embrace, 3 Night terror in well fitted, you're doing it wrong)"

I thought sets with the same ability didn't stack?

ak_pvp · March 2018

Yet more awful design. Make it increase set bonuses by X percent.

generalmyrick · March 2018

same buffs don't stack

Patrickaus · March 2018

same buffs don't stack

So does the reduced 2m detection radius in Night Mother's Embrace and Night Terror stack? So we get a 4m reduction? I thought they didn't, but I could be wrong.

Avran_Sylt · March 2018

Patrickaus wrote: »

same buffs don't stack

So does the reduced 2m detection radius in Night Mother's Embrace and Night Terror stack? So we get a 4m reduction? I thought they didn't, but I could be wrong.

@Patrickaus

NME,Night Terror, Stealthy, and Medium Armor Passive all stack with one another. I've tried it. And used it. You cannot be detected unless you're in a cone in front of a person. (You can literally walk into the NPC hitbox and will not be detected, you have to move in front of them).

It is fantastic for Pick-pocketing.

Gilvoth · March 2018

just make it 15 instead of 11 and is good.

Patrickaus · March 2018

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Patrickaus wrote: »

same buffs don't stack

So does the reduced 2m detection radius in Night Mother's Embrace and Night Terror stack? So we get a 4m reduction? I thought they didn't, but I could be wrong.

@Patrickaus

NME,Night Terror, Stealthy, and Medium Armor Passive all stack with one another. I've tried it. And used it. You cannot be detected unless you're in a cone in front of a person. (You can literally walk into the NPC hitbox and will not be detected, you have to move in front of them).

It is fantastic for Pick-pocketing.

Thanks for that info!

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Numbers need an absolute massive improvement if they're going to compete with other traits.

I cant believe they seriously thought 9-10 recovery was going to work on any build. Even if you go full invigorating on all 7 armor pieces, you're getting 70 recovery. That's it. Pathetic.

If I'm going to dump all of my divines/infused traits for invigorating, then the amount gained needs to be substantial. If it were 50-100 recovery per piece then we'd be talking.

Metafae · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Numbers need an absolute massive improvement if they're going to compete with other traits.

I cant believe they seriously thought 9-10 recovery was going to work on any build. Even if you go full invigorating on all 7 armor pieces, you're getting 70 recovery. That's it. Pathetic.

If I'm going to dump all of my divines/infused traits for invigorating, then the amount gained needs to be substantial. If it were 50-100 recovery per piece then we'd be talking.

7 divines will only add 133 recovery with a recovery mundus.
7 invigorating will at 77 to all three stats. (231 in total)

If it did 50 each stat per piece would be way too op.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Metafae wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Numbers need an absolute massive improvement if they're going to compete with other traits.

I cant believe they seriously thought 9-10 recovery was going to work on any build. Even if you go full invigorating on all 7 armor pieces, you're getting 70 recovery. That's it. Pathetic.

If I'm going to dump all of my divines/infused traits for invigorating, then the amount gained needs to be substantial. If it were 50-100 recovery per piece then we'd be talking.

7 divines will only add 133 recovery with a recovery mundus.
7 invigorating will at 77 to all three stats. (231 in total)

If it did 50 each stat per piece would be way too op.

The problem is valuing recovery versus other stats. Yes, 7 divines with atronach or serpent will 125 (your numbers are a little off) recovery, but most people using divines gear are not focusing on recovery or using the atronach stone with it - they're using a damage mundus and getting far more benefit out of it.

Also consider that very few builds really benefit from both stamina and magicka recovery (most dps builds will gain the bulk of their primary resource from heavy attacks or sustain skills, and only use one or two abilities of the opposite resource), and nobody really benefits from health recovery in this game.

i would expect 7 invigorating to at least give equal amount to 7 divines with a recovery mundus. Fact is, if you go 7 divines you have the benefit of changing what those gear pieces are boosting, whether it's recovery or damage or max stat or even crit/crit damage. Invigorating is always the same bonus, it's less versatile, and less potent overall. That said, do you really ever see a piece of gear with 10 recovery and think "gee, that's a huge bonus!" - no, you dont, and even if you had 7 of those pieces you'd still be underwhelmed.

in the grand scheme of things, any recovery based build is going to be at 1500-2000 primary resource recovery already (and only healer builds and some tank builds really run high recovery, most DPS are just weaving heavies now for sustain), so a whopping 77 recovery is going to make jack all of a difference for them, and they're much better off using infused or divines.

SilverIce58 · March 2018

Why was it changed from Prosperous to Invigorating? At least with prosperous, new players could earn some much needed gold while questing. Training+Prosperous sounds like a great combo to run through zones with. Was it because it only increased found gold? Maybe it should've been changed to increase all gold received from all sources.