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Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? Should we be able to buy them?
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
And your answer to my question is what? Would such a proposal be significant and therefore Pay to Win, or insignificant and therefore a waste of players' money? Or are you simply looking to dumb the game down regardless?
I believe the game should be dumbed down slightly. Even some prominent theory crafters have made remarks in their videos about certain content only being completed by 0.1% of the population is a bit ridiculous.
No, that's fairly normal for most MMOs. The extreme hardcore raiding communities are vanishingly small portions of the overall population. The idea that only 1 in 1k players will ever clear vMA tracks with the community as a whole. ESO does have the intermediate tier where normal content is open to anyone who wants, but remember, RPers, and casual players with no interest in group content won't touch that stuff no matter how accessible you try to make it.
FFXIV and WoW are around 2 - 5% depending on the content.
This is before, or after, WoW's group content degenerated into facerolls?
Log into WoW and "face roll" Antorus Mythic. I'd love to see you face roll it.
You really think somewhere between one in fifty and one in twenty players has cleared that? Really? Out of all of the idiots scampering around in Barrens Chat? No.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Juju_beans wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
Can already buy experience scrolls. Done
I don't think the OP is advocating for people to buy XP scrolls and play; OP wants to just buy CP outright.
Agreed, and while originally he was asking for that for casual players who by definition were unlikely to have any realistic interest in highly competitive endgame content, now he's merely wanting it for a few friends who aren't casual but just want a dumbed down game.1 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Juju_beans wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
Can already buy experience scrolls. Done
I don't think the OP is advocating for people to buy XP scrolls and play; OP wants to just buy CP outright.
Agreed, and while originally he was asking for that for casual players who by definition were unlikely to have any realistic interest in highly competitive endgame content, now he's merely wanting it for a few friends who aren't casual but just want a dumbed down game.
I believe you guys are trying to troll me now so I am going to continue on topic discussion of the CP cap and its grind.
Other ideas:- Give CP allotments with each DLC
- Give CP allotments with each Chapter.
- Allow passive CP generation (5 per day)
- Make the XP per CP point a flat amount and lower the amount
- Allow XP scrolls to be "enlightenment scrolls".
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TheCyberDruid✭✭✭✭✭Agreed, and while originally he was asking for that for casual players who by definition were unlikely to have any realistic interest in highly competitive endgame content, now he's merely wanting it for a few friends who aren't casual but just want a dumbed down game.
Or he might just be trying to get reactions from everyone and bask in them. Just another angle on why he/she/it might be creating threads like this one.2 -
Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheCyberDruid wrote: »Agreed, and while originally he was asking for that for casual players who by definition were unlikely to have any realistic interest in highly competitive endgame content, now he's merely wanting it for a few friends who aren't casual but just want a dumbed down game.
Or he might just be trying to get reactions from everyone and bask in them. Just another angle on why he/she/it might be creating threads like this one.
He's just trolling at this point, the guy obviously doesn't care about the state of the game. If he did, he wouldn't be skating around every single valid point made against his stance. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, and if I want to succeed, I'd do my damnedest to address any criticism and issues others bring against my proposition.
It's not going to happen regardless, CP is in an overly-friendly place right now for newer players.0 -
TheCyberDruid✭✭✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »He's just trolling at this point, the guy obviously doesn't care about the state of the game. If he did, he wouldn't be skating around every single valid point made against his stance. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, and if I want to succeed, I'd do my damnedest to address any criticism and issues others bring against my proposition.
It's not going to happen regardless, CP is in an overly-friendly place right now for newer players.
You used the bad t-word there, so I can't agree. I think though that there are valid points in your argumentation *wink, wink*0 -
Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Juju_beans wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
Can already buy experience scrolls. Done
I don't think the OP is advocating for people to buy XP scrolls and play; OP wants to just buy CP outright.
Agreed, and while originally he was asking for that for casual players who by definition were unlikely to have any realistic interest in highly competitive endgame content, now he's merely wanting it for a few friends who aren't casual but just want a dumbed down game.
I believe you guys are trying to troll me now so I am going to continue on topic discussion of the CP cap and its grind.
Other ideas:- Give CP allotments with each DLC
- Give CP allotments with each Chapter.
- Allow passive CP generation (5 per day)
- Make the XP per CP point a flat amount and lower the amount
- Allow XP scrolls to be "enlightenment scrolls".
TheCyberDruid wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »He's just trolling at this point, the guy obviously doesn't care about the state of the game. If he did, he wouldn't be skating around every single valid point made against his stance. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, and if I want to succeed, I'd do my damnedest to address any criticism and issues others bring against my proposition.
It's not going to happen regardless, CP is in an overly-friendly place right now for newer players.
You used the bad t-word there, so I can't agree. I think though that there are valid points in your argumentation *wink, wink*
;D0 -
TheCyberDruid✭✭✭✭✭You know the one that actually does the thing always has to reassure that he's not doing that thing, but that everyone else is doing it to him. That's why I'm outta here now
1 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheCyberDruid wrote: »You know the one that actually does the thing always has to reassure that he's not doing that thing, but that everyone else is doing it to him. That's why I'm outta here now
I'm not really sure I understand what you mean? What does that have to do with CP.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheCyberDruid wrote: »You know the one that actually does the thing always has to reassure that he's not doing that thing, but that everyone else is doing it to him. That's why I'm outta here now
I'm not really sure I understand what you mean? What does that have to do with CP.
You know that one thing, that has nothing to do with the other... kinda like what you have to do with @Knowledge... wait...1 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »TheCyberDruid wrote: »Agreed, and while originally he was asking for that for casual players who by definition were unlikely to have any realistic interest in highly competitive endgame content, now he's merely wanting it for a few friends who aren't casual but just want a dumbed down game.
Or he might just be trying to get reactions from everyone and bask in them. Just another angle on why he/she/it might be creating threads like this one.
He's just trolling at this point, the guy obviously doesn't care about the state of the game. If he did, he wouldn't be skating around every single valid point made against his stance. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, and if I want to succeed, I'd do my damnedest to address any criticism and issues others bring against my proposition.
It's not going to happen regardless, CP is in an overly-friendly place right now for newer players.
Well it's like I've said like three times now - OP says he wants discussion, but then actively avoids discussion and/or ignores posters and their points if they contradict his own.
I and others have posted in this thread many times about possibly raising the rate of enlightenment in one form or another. It's the obvious solution since it requires the least amount of work on the part of ZOS.
There's no real discussion or progress happening in this thread. Just a cyclical argument that OP keeps stoking.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »TheCyberDruid wrote: »Agreed, and while originally he was asking for that for casual players who by definition were unlikely to have any realistic interest in highly competitive endgame content, now he's merely wanting it for a few friends who aren't casual but just want a dumbed down game.
Or he might just be trying to get reactions from everyone and bask in them. Just another angle on why he/she/it might be creating threads like this one.
He's just trolling at this point, the guy obviously doesn't care about the state of the game. If he did, he wouldn't be skating around every single valid point made against his stance. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, and if I want to succeed, I'd do my damnedest to address any criticism and issues others bring against my proposition.
It's not going to happen regardless, CP is in an overly-friendly place right now for newer players.
Well it's like I've said like three times now - OP says he wants discussion, but then actively avoids discussion and/or ignores posters and their points if they contradict his own.
I and others have posted in this thread many times about possibly raising the rate of enlightenment in one form or another. It's the obvious solution since it requires the least amount of work on the part of ZOS.
There's no real discussion or progress happening in this thread. Just a cyclical argument that OP keeps stoking.
I agree with many of your points.0 -
FleetwoodSmack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »TheCyberDruid wrote: »Agreed, and while originally he was asking for that for casual players who by definition were unlikely to have any realistic interest in highly competitive endgame content, now he's merely wanting it for a few friends who aren't casual but just want a dumbed down game.
Or he might just be trying to get reactions from everyone and bask in them. Just another angle on why he/she/it might be creating threads like this one.
He's just trolling at this point, the guy obviously doesn't care about the state of the game. If he did, he wouldn't be skating around every single valid point made against his stance. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, and if I want to succeed, I'd do my damnedest to address any criticism and issues others bring against my proposition.
It's not going to happen regardless, CP is in an overly-friendly place right now for newer players.
Well it's like I've said like three times now - OP says he wants discussion, but then actively avoids discussion and/or ignores posters and their points if they contradict his own.
I and others have posted in this thread many times about possibly raising the rate of enlightenment in one form or another. It's the obvious solution since it requires the least amount of work on the part of ZOS.
There's no real discussion or progress happening in this thread. Just a cyclical argument that OP keeps stoking.
I agree with many of your points.
That's a funny joke.Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!2 -
FleetwoodSmack✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »TheCyberDruid wrote: »You know the one that actually does the thing always has to reassure that he's not doing that thing, but that everyone else is doing it to him. That's why I'm outta here now
I'm not really sure I understand what you mean? What does that have to do with CP.
You know that one thing, that has nothing to do with the other... kinda like what you have to do with @Knowledge... wait...
*airhorn.wav*Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »And, your point is?
It's worth remembering that, because you aren't back credited, if you grind for a considerable time, then, stop, the level cap goes up, that doesn't mean you're instantly bumped up to where you would be. So you would end up in a situation where you'd have to earn more XP overall from start to cap, than "intended."
Also worth noting that there are some potential glitches in the overall math, meaning, because of rounding, it's possible you might see the XP targets shuffle. But, realistically, we're talking about a threshold of less than a daily random. If you really want, I can dig out a spreadsheet and run the values, but I don't have that kind of time at the moment.
My point is it requires more XP to go from zero to cap than it ever has in the history of the game.
Nope.
Current XP to go from 0 to 720 = 173,726,215
XP to go from 0 to 720 when CP was first introduced = 288,000,000 (720 x 400,000)
Also keep in mind that at that time, the "cap" was 3600 CP.The Moot Councillor2 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »And, your point is?
It's worth remembering that, because you aren't back credited, if you grind for a considerable time, then, stop, the level cap goes up, that doesn't mean you're instantly bumped up to where you would be. So you would end up in a situation where you'd have to earn more XP overall from start to cap, than "intended."
Also worth noting that there are some potential glitches in the overall math, meaning, because of rounding, it's possible you might see the XP targets shuffle. But, realistically, we're talking about a threshold of less than a daily random. If you really want, I can dig out a spreadsheet and run the values, but I don't have that kind of time at the moment.
My point is it requires more XP to go from zero to cap than it ever has in the history of the game.
Nope.
Current XP to go from 0 to 720 = 173,726,215
XP to go from 0 to 720 when CP was first introduced = 288,000,000 (720 x 400,000)
Also keep in mind that at that time, the "cap" was 3600 CP.
The argument is when the cap is raised the required amount of XP is greater. You obviously couldn't spend 720 point pre Dragon Bones.
The statement as follows are what the argument is about.
More XP is required to go from zero to cap than ever before.
More XP is required to go from zero to cap than when the cap was 690.
More XP is required to go from zero to cap than when the cap was 500.
We're disputing the amount required to go to max spendable points. You're modifying the argument to make your self right.Edited by Knowledge on March 10, 2018 4:31AM0 -
kyle.wilson✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »And, your point is?
It's worth remembering that, because you aren't back credited, if you grind for a considerable time, then, stop, the level cap goes up, that doesn't mean you're instantly bumped up to where you would be. So you would end up in a situation where you'd have to earn more XP overall from start to cap, than "intended."
Also worth noting that there are some potential glitches in the overall math, meaning, because of rounding, it's possible you might see the XP targets shuffle. But, realistically, we're talking about a threshold of less than a daily random. If you really want, I can dig out a spreadsheet and run the values, but I don't have that kind of time at the moment.
My point is it requires more XP to go from zero to cap than it ever has in the history of the game.
Nope.
Current XP to go from 0 to 720 = 173,726,215
XP to go from 0 to 720 when CP was first introduced = 288,000,000 (720 x 400,000)
Also keep in mind that at that time, the "cap" was 3600 CP.
The argument is when the cap is raised the required amount of XP is greater. You obviously couldn't spend 720 point pre Dragon Bones.
The statement as follows are what the argument is about.
More XP is required to go from zero to cap than ever before.
More XP is required to go from zero to cap than when the cap was 690.
More XP is required to go from zero to cap than when the cap was 500.
We're disputing the amount required to go to max spendable points. You're modifying the argument to make your self right.
When CP was first introduced there was no cap, so people that exploited some glitches got over 1000cp. Players with 1k cp when the average was <100 were rolling people.
They were not punished for it either.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭More XP is required to go from zero to cap than when the cap was 500.
The cap was never that low.kyle.wilson wrote: »When CP was first introduced there was no cap, so people that exploited some glitches got over 1000cp. Players with 1k cp when the average was <100 were rolling people.
They were not punished for it either.
As I recall, three people got to CR1k+ before ZOS implemented the 501 cap. Gina (I think) published that statistic ages ago, in one of @leepalmer95's threads.
I'm not sure the average endgame players were ever under 100... at least not on PC. But, that's because vets started with their highest Vet Rank * 10, so, for example, I've never had less than 160 CP. That said, it may have been a different story in the XB1 and PS4 communities. To the best of my knowledge, no console players got to 1k+ before the cap was implemented, but, I'll admit, I don't have hard statistical data to back that up.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »And, your point is?
It's worth remembering that, because you aren't back credited, if you grind for a considerable time, then, stop, the level cap goes up, that doesn't mean you're instantly bumped up to where you would be. So you would end up in a situation where you'd have to earn more XP overall from start to cap, than "intended."
Also worth noting that there are some potential glitches in the overall math, meaning, because of rounding, it's possible you might see the XP targets shuffle. But, realistically, we're talking about a threshold of less than a daily random. If you really want, I can dig out a spreadsheet and run the values, but I don't have that kind of time at the moment.
My point is it requires more XP to go from zero to cap than it ever has in the history of the game.
Nope.
Current XP to go from 0 to 720 = 173,726,215
XP to go from 0 to 720 when CP was first introduced = 288,000,000 (720 x 400,000)
Also keep in mind that at that time, the "cap" was 3600 CP.
So, when the Champion system was first implemented, the experience point cost to reach 3600 was 1.44 billion.0 -
Sjizzle✭✭✭@Knowledge i really do not understand u now... or u trolling or u are ****************************... u can not play this game if u are not max CP ?????
- seems that u can not play any game without using your valet use a bit of brain instead of valet and is much more fun ...
- in WoW the 100 boost is only the lvl boost not the gear, Artifact Power, or the game knowledge and it's stupid feature in WoW ....WoW and ESO are complete different games...
i say u again go and play other games if u don't like eso system and do not come here with stupid ideas CP catch up mechanics ....there are XP Pot. XP scrolls use them u have what u wish WTF is wrong with u ?
30 +50% XP pot are around 30K gold damn cheap u can make that gold very fast ! USE THEM TO CATCH UP
SCROLL ARE ATE CROWN STORE USE TEHM TO CATCH UP
if u don't like them stop posting stupid things with CP Catch up mechanics play the game and u will be 720 CPEdited by Sjizzle on March 10, 2018 5:22AM1 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is how P2W starts: casuals who can't be content with being casual and want to buy their way to hardcore benefits.3 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is how P2W starts: casuals who can't be content with being casual and want to buy their way to hardcore benefits.
Odd. The ones I've known who indulge in this sort of thing are definitely NOT the casuals.They're the sort that don't want to deal with all the interim stuff and get straight to the end-game "good stuff".
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »This is how P2W starts: casuals who can't be content with being casual and want to buy their way to hardcore benefits.
Odd. The ones I've known who indulge in this sort of thing are definitely NOT the casuals.They're the sort that don't want to deal with all the interim stuff and get straight to the end-game "good stuff".
They should all wear jester costume because that's what they are.Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU1 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »This is how P2W starts: casuals who can't be content with being casual and want to buy their way to hardcore benefits.
Odd. The ones I've known who indulge in this sort of thing are definitely NOT the casuals.They're the sort that don't want to deal with all the interim stuff and get straight to the end-game "good stuff".
They should all wear jester costume because that's what they are.
Which? The casuals or the end-gamers?
Actually, neither because both are perfectly valid playstyles and this nonsense of sneering at one and other really is getting old.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
Mz_Jo✭✭✭I was just LOL at the thread title, then saw 20 pages!!!
I HAVE NO idea who is being ridiculous about what
So I offer this option if you really don't like everything you have today
WE GO BACK TO DAY 1
1 million XP per level
NO MATTER WHAT LEVEL
NO MORE XP POTS
SO, we won't even have to worry about debating CP or NOT
Because you will NEVER CATCH UP THEN!!!
So, looking like you have it pretty good NOW THEN!!
YOUR Never going to get to buy XP CP not in this game.
Thanks for your time
Was PS4pro - 4k @ Launch / 2022 Xbox X started all over!
/ DC only / PVE, PvP, All Crafting, Housing
Vampires Rule
Fav Weapon - Blade of Woe and Thief of everything!
ESO Live Watcher, Patch Note Reader, Console Launch0 -
SilverIce58✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I was just LOL at the thread title, then saw 20 pages!!!
I HAVE NO idea who is being ridiculous about what
So I offer this option if you really don't like everything you have today
WE GO BACK TO DAY 1
1 million XP per level
NO MATTER WHAT LEVEL
NO MORE XP POTS
SO, we won't even have to worry about debating CP or NOT
Because you will NEVER CATCH UP THEN!!!
So, looking like you have it pretty good NOW THEN!!
YOUR Never going to get to buy XP CP not in this game.
Thanks for your time
LOL, that made me think of TERA, each level is like 1M+ exp.PC - NACP 1125
Veric Blackwood - Breton Magsorc DC
Xhiak-Qua'cthurus - Argonian Frost Warden EP
Kujata-qa - Khajiit Magplar AD
Suunleth-dar - Khajiit Stamblade AD
Teldryn Antharys - Dunmer Flame DK EP
Strikes-With-Venom - Argonian Poison DK EP
Rur'san-ra - Khajiit WW Stamsorc AD
Ilianos Solinar - Altmer Stamplar AD
Iscah Silver-Heart - Reachman Magden DC0 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »This is how P2W starts: casuals who can't be content with being casual and want to buy their way to hardcore benefits.
Odd. The ones I've known who indulge in this sort of thing are definitely NOT the casuals.They're the sort that don't want to deal with all the interim stuff and get straight to the end-game "good stuff".
They should all wear jester costume because that's what they are.
Which? The casuals or the end-gamers?
Actually, neither because both are perfectly valid playstyles and this nonsense of sneering at one and other really is getting old.
Those who want everything now, doesn't matter if casual or hardcore.Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »This is how P2W starts: casuals who can't be content with being casual and want to buy their way to hardcore benefits.
Odd. The ones I've known who indulge in this sort of thing are definitely NOT the casuals.They're the sort that don't want to deal with all the interim stuff and get straight to the end-game "good stuff".
They should all wear jester costume because that's what they are.
Which? The casuals or the end-gamers?
Actually, neither because both are perfectly valid playstyles and this nonsense of sneering at one and other really is getting old.
Those who want everything now, doesn't matter if casual or hardcore.
I would just like a quicker way to attain CP beyond the current system.1 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »This is how P2W starts: casuals who can't be content with being casual and want to buy their way to hardcore benefits.
Odd. The ones I've known who indulge in this sort of thing are definitely NOT the casuals.They're the sort that don't want to deal with all the interim stuff and get straight to the end-game "good stuff".
They should all wear jester costume because that's what they are.
Which? The casuals or the end-gamers?
Actually, neither because both are perfectly valid playstyles and this nonsense of sneering at one and other really is getting old.
Those who want everything now, doesn't matter if casual or hardcore.
Yeah, patience isn't the strong suit for some. MMOs probably aren't the best place for lack of patience.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0
This discussion has been closed.