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Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? Should we be able to buy them?
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Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would become a pay to win game. If you want something you should work hard at. It would be pathetic if there was such a thing in the game.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »@Knowledge, If you sell CP, you will encourage elitism. Your "friends," will leave the game.
As stated in previous posts we have come to a reasonable alternative which is permanent enlightenment after 50 until the previous CP cap is reached (690 at this time).
Who's "we?" Oh, right, that would be, "you, and yourself."
If enlightenment was a catch up mechanic... but, oh, wait, it's not. It's an anti-grind mechanic. It's there to keep you from sitting at your game, killing mudcrabs, 8 hours a day, for the next 20 years.
The catch up mechanic is the actual XP costs of getting to the current cap. The actual cost of getting to CR300 is cheaper with every patch. The cost of getting to 600 is constantly getting cheaper. No, you're not back-credited. But the XP involved is dropping over time.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭It would become a pay to win game. If you want something you should work hard at. It would be pathetic if there was such a thing in the game.
Yes but most of the posters here have said that CP isn't significant. Even though mathematics argues otherwise.
If it truly isn't significant and you don't "need it" nor does it "improve player skill" why worry about how fast it can be attained?
0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would become a pay to win game. If you want something you should work hard at. It would be pathetic if there was such a thing in the game.
Yes but most of the posters here have said that CP isn't significant. Even though mathematics argues otherwise.
If it truly isn't significant and you don't "need it" nor does it "improve player skill" why worry about how fast it can be attained?
So, you're saying, you want a P2W game? I mean, if that's the case, Cryptic's over there.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
IT. IS.
If you played the game, instead of crying on the forums, you'd see that.1 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »@Knowledge, If you sell CP, you will encourage elitism. Your "friends," will leave the game.
As stated in previous posts we have come to a reasonable alternative which is permanent enlightenment after 50 until the previous CP cap is reached (690 at this time).
Who's "we?" Oh, right, that would be, "you, and yourself."
If enlightenment was a catch up mechanic... but, oh, wait, it's not. It's an anti-grind mechanic. It's there to keep you from sitting at your game, killing mudcrabs, 8 hours a day, for the next 20 years.
The catch up mechanic is the actual XP costs of getting to the current cap. The actual cost of getting to CR300 is cheaper with every patch. The cost of getting to 600 is constantly getting cheaper. No, you're not back-credited. But the XP involved is dropping over time.
The way the system is currently designed is simply to give more rationale to ESO+. It modifies the speed at which you gain CP, to some extent, and therefore gives its self purpose. Keeping the grind steep adds another reasoning for certain players to buy ESO+ that otherwise don't care about features like the crafting bag.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »@Knowledge, If you sell CP, you will encourage elitism. Your "friends," will leave the game.
As stated in previous posts we have come to a reasonable alternative which is permanent enlightenment after 50 until the previous CP cap is reached (690 at this time).
Who's "we?" Oh, right, that would be, "you, and yourself."
If enlightenment was a catch up mechanic... but, oh, wait, it's not. It's an anti-grind mechanic. It's there to keep you from sitting at your game, killing mudcrabs, 8 hours a day, for the next 20 years.
The catch up mechanic is the actual XP costs of getting to the current cap. The actual cost of getting to CR300 is cheaper with every patch. The cost of getting to 600 is constantly getting cheaper. No, you're not back-credited. But the XP involved is dropping over time.
The way the system is currently designed is simply to give more rationale to ESO+. It modifies the speed at which you gain CP, to some extent, and therefore gives its self purpose. Keeping the grind steep adds another reasoning for certain players to buy ESO+ that otherwise don't care about features like the crafting bag.
Except, of course, for the part where that "steep grind" has been diminishing over time.1 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »@Knowledge, If you sell CP, you will encourage elitism. Your "friends," will leave the game.
As stated in previous posts we have come to a reasonable alternative which is permanent enlightenment after 50 until the previous CP cap is reached (690 at this time).
Who's "we?" Oh, right, that would be, "you, and yourself."
If enlightenment was a catch up mechanic... but, oh, wait, it's not. It's an anti-grind mechanic. It's there to keep you from sitting at your game, killing mudcrabs, 8 hours a day, for the next 20 years.
The catch up mechanic is the actual XP costs of getting to the current cap. The actual cost of getting to CR300 is cheaper with every patch. The cost of getting to 600 is constantly getting cheaper. No, you're not back-credited. But the XP involved is dropping over time.
The way the system is currently designed is simply to give more rationale to ESO+. It modifies the speed at which you gain CP, to some extent, and therefore gives its self purpose. Keeping the grind steep adds another reasoning for certain players to buy ESO+ that otherwise don't care about features like the crafting bag.
Except, of course, for the part where that "steep grind" has been diminishing over time.
As more CP has been added increasing the length of time to get to cap?0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »@Knowledge, If you sell CP, you will encourage elitism. Your "friends," will leave the game.
As stated in previous posts we have come to a reasonable alternative which is permanent enlightenment after 50 until the previous CP cap is reached (690 at this time).
Who's "we?" Oh, right, that would be, "you, and yourself."
If enlightenment was a catch up mechanic... but, oh, wait, it's not. It's an anti-grind mechanic. It's there to keep you from sitting at your game, killing mudcrabs, 8 hours a day, for the next 20 years.
The catch up mechanic is the actual XP costs of getting to the current cap. The actual cost of getting to CR300 is cheaper with every patch. The cost of getting to 600 is constantly getting cheaper. No, you're not back-credited. But the XP involved is dropping over time.
The way the system is currently designed is simply to give more rationale to ESO+. It modifies the speed at which you gain CP, to some extent, and therefore gives its self purpose. Keeping the grind steep adds another reasoning for certain players to buy ESO+ that otherwise don't care about features like the crafting bag.
Except, of course, for the part where that "steep grind" has been diminishing over time.
As more CP has been added increasing the length of time to get to cap?
No. In fact, it hasn't. In fact, depending on how the 10-160 XP is calculated, the time from 10-cap has actually gotten shorter. It will take a new account less time to go from 10-720, than it would have taken a new account to go from 10-501 when VRs were first phased out.
The only way getting the grind could be considered worse now is if you've actually crested OVER the spending cap, and been over it for awhile, between updates.Edited by starkerealm on March 9, 2018 11:01PM1 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »@Knowledge, If you sell CP, you will encourage elitism. Your "friends," will leave the game.
As stated in previous posts we have come to a reasonable alternative which is permanent enlightenment after 50 until the previous CP cap is reached (690 at this time).
Who's "we?" Oh, right, that would be, "you, and yourself."
If enlightenment was a catch up mechanic... but, oh, wait, it's not. It's an anti-grind mechanic. It's there to keep you from sitting at your game, killing mudcrabs, 8 hours a day, for the next 20 years.
The catch up mechanic is the actual XP costs of getting to the current cap. The actual cost of getting to CR300 is cheaper with every patch. The cost of getting to 600 is constantly getting cheaper. No, you're not back-credited. But the XP involved is dropping over time.
The way the system is currently designed is simply to give more rationale to ESO+. It modifies the speed at which you gain CP, to some extent, and therefore gives its self purpose. Keeping the grind steep adds another reasoning for certain players to buy ESO+ that otherwise don't care about features like the crafting bag.
Except, of course, for the part where that "steep grind" has been diminishing over time.
As more CP has been added increasing the length of time to get to cap?
No. In fact, it hasn't. In fact, depending on how the 10-160 XP is calculated, the time from 10-cap has actually gotten shorter. It will take a new account less time to go from 10-720, than it would have taken a new account to go from 10-501 when VRs were first phased out.
The only way getting the grind could be considered worse now is if you've actually crested OVER the spending cap, and been over it for awhile, between updates.
I am quoting LiquidPony:
" Earlier CP are easier to earn.
With a cap of 501 CP:
CP100-->CP101: 117184.5799 XP
CP200-->CP201: 198721.9405 XP
With a cap of 720 CP:
CP100-->CP101: 91413.51779 XP
CP200-->CP201: 148827.0356 XP
Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the total amount of XP needed to reach cap increases as the cap increases.
Note the wording in (every) patch note. "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted ..." Note the key word "automatically," and that automation comes from the fact that the formula which determines the XP required to level includes the CP cap as a variable. ZOS isn't changing anything; the result of the formula changes as the variables change. Basic algebra.
I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth. If your point is that the formula is 2 years old so it must be wrong (Pythagoras is rolling in his grave), then why is it that said formula exactly matches the XP I need to get my next level on 3 separate accounts (XB1, PC, PTS)? Dumb luck? "0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And, your point is?
It's worth remembering that, because you aren't back credited, if you grind for a considerable time, then, stop, the level cap goes up, that doesn't mean you're instantly bumped up to where you would be. So you would end up in a situation where you'd have to earn more XP overall from start to cap, than "intended."
Also worth noting that there are some potential glitches in the overall math, meaning, because of rounding, it's possible you might see the XP targets shuffle. But, realistically, we're talking about a threshold of less than a daily random. If you really want, I can dig out a spreadsheet and run the values, but I don't have that kind of time at the moment.1 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »And, your point is?
It's worth remembering that, because you aren't back credited, if you grind for a considerable time, then, stop, the level cap goes up, that doesn't mean you're instantly bumped up to where you would be. So you would end up in a situation where you'd have to earn more XP overall from start to cap, than "intended."
Also worth noting that there are some potential glitches in the overall math, meaning, because of rounding, it's possible you might see the XP targets shuffle. But, realistically, we're talking about a threshold of less than a daily random. If you really want, I can dig out a spreadsheet and run the values, but I don't have that kind of time at the moment.
My point is it requires more XP to go from zero to cap than it ever has in the history of the game.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
And your answer to my question is what? Would such a proposal be significant and therefore Pay to Win, or insignificant and therefore a waste of players' money? Or are you simply looking to dumb the game down regardless?0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
And your answer to my question is what? Would such a proposal be significant and therefore Pay to Win, or insignificant and therefore a waste of players' money? Or are you simply looking to dumb the game down regardless?
I believe the game should be dumbed down slightly. Even some prominent theory crafters have made remarks in their videos about certain content only being completed by 0.1% of the population is a bit ridiculous.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »And, your point is?
It's worth remembering that, because you aren't back credited, if you grind for a considerable time, then, stop, the level cap goes up, that doesn't mean you're instantly bumped up to where you would be. So you would end up in a situation where you'd have to earn more XP overall from start to cap, than "intended."
Also worth noting that there are some potential glitches in the overall math, meaning, because of rounding, it's possible you might see the XP targets shuffle. But, realistically, we're talking about a threshold of less than a daily random. If you really want, I can dig out a spreadsheet and run the values, but I don't have that kind of time at the moment.
My point is it requires more XP to go from zero to cap than it ever has in the history of the game.
I haven't run the numbers yet, but I'm pretty sure it requires less than 1.44 billion XP to get to the spending cap.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »And, your point is?
It's worth remembering that, because you aren't back credited, if you grind for a considerable time, then, stop, the level cap goes up, that doesn't mean you're instantly bumped up to where you would be. So you would end up in a situation where you'd have to earn more XP overall from start to cap, than "intended."
Also worth noting that there are some potential glitches in the overall math, meaning, because of rounding, it's possible you might see the XP targets shuffle. But, realistically, we're talking about a threshold of less than a daily random. If you really want, I can dig out a spreadsheet and run the values, but I don't have that kind of time at the moment.
My point is it requires more XP to go from zero to cap than it ever has in the history of the game.
I haven't run the numbers yet, but I'm pretty sure it requires less than 1.44 billion XP to get to the spending cap.
Again quoting LiquidPony in case you didn't read it.
" I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth. If your point is that the formula is 2 years old so it must be wrong (Pythagoras is rolling in his grave), then why is it that said formula exactly matches the XP I need to get my next level on 3 separate accounts (XB1, PC, PTS)? Dumb luck? "0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
And your answer to my question is what? Would such a proposal be significant and therefore Pay to Win, or insignificant and therefore a waste of players' money? Or are you simply looking to dumb the game down regardless?
I believe the game should be dumbed down slightly. Even some prominent theory crafters have made remarks in their videos about certain content only being completed by 0.1% of the population is a bit ridiculous.
No, that's fairly normal for most MMOs. The extreme hardcore raiding communities are vanishingly small portions of the overall population. The idea that only 1 in 1k players will ever clear vMA tracks with the community as a whole. ESO does have the intermediate tier where normal content is open to anyone who wants, but remember, RPers, and casual players with no interest in group content won't touch that stuff no matter how accessible you try to make it.2 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Allow me to slam the door on this one, so hopefully this dead horse can rot.Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
Currently everyone is on an equal playing field. That is, you invest so many hours into the game, and you're likely to achieve a similar CP level to someone else that has done the same. This is for the typical player doing typical things.
We're not talking fully golded training gear, mythic ambrosia and 2 minutes skyreach runs to completion.
Typical players doing typical things.
Your proposal does not place people on even ground, because not everyone will have the funding to advance faster courtesy of the crown store. Your idea is P2W, flat out.
You keep throwing these IRL numbers about, 3 month industry standard, 6 month, etc. How many in game hours is reasonable to achieve a true 'end game character?'
Now, take that amount and divide it by the amount of play time any individual has and you have your timeframe.
The prospect of casual play going from Level 1 to end game capped is absurd and unnecessary.
You don't have to grind. You don't have have to play 12 hours a day.
A few times every twelve days you simply need to log in and do something. A single Random Normal will burn up the majority of one days' enlightenment. Do that on two characters and you're suddenly gaining.
You argue that people have lives - the requirement for gameplay in ESO that is non-Hodor level, leaderboard, world-first, speed run, hard mode, no death combined does not require the level of commitment you keep trying to imply.
"Casuals" are not careening towards content like vAS, vMoL, vHoF, even vet DLC's at full speed if they cannot log on enough every two weeks to earn some very easy XP.
20 minutes a day will burn your enlightenment. Twenty. Minutes. A. Day (That's an average, by the way, so still leaves 23 hours 40 minutes for all that real life stuff the rest of us apparently don't do.)
Anything beyond that average, and you will gain on the cap.
There is absolutely no reason that someone with as many time limits as you propose should be able to be even remotely equivalent to someone that has truly played to end game.
Your in game prowess should be based on your time committed and your ability to play your character. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Your wallet should have no say in it.
Edited by Merlin13KAGL on March 10, 2018 12:02AMJust because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS5 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
And your answer to my question is what? Would such a proposal be significant and therefore Pay to Win, or insignificant and therefore a waste of players' money? Or are you simply looking to dumb the game down regardless?
I believe the game should be dumbed down slightly. Even some prominent theory crafters have made remarks in their videos about certain content only being completed by 0.1% of the population is a bit ridiculous.
No, that's fairly normal for most MMOs. The extreme hardcore raiding communities are vanishingly small portions of the overall population. The idea that only 1 in 1k players will ever clear vMA tracks with the community as a whole. ESO does have the intermediate tier where normal content is open to anyone who wants, but remember, RPers, and casual players with no interest in group content won't touch that stuff no matter how accessible you try to make it.
FFXIV and WoW are around 2 - 5% depending on the content.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »And, your point is?
It's worth remembering that, because you aren't back credited, if you grind for a considerable time, then, stop, the level cap goes up, that doesn't mean you're instantly bumped up to where you would be. So you would end up in a situation where you'd have to earn more XP overall from start to cap, than "intended."
Also worth noting that there are some potential glitches in the overall math, meaning, because of rounding, it's possible you might see the XP targets shuffle. But, realistically, we're talking about a threshold of less than a daily random. If you really want, I can dig out a spreadsheet and run the values, but I don't have that kind of time at the moment.
My point is it requires more XP to go from zero to cap than it ever has in the history of the game.
I haven't run the numbers yet, but I'm pretty sure it requires less than 1.44 billion XP to get to the spending cap.
Again quoting LiquidPony in case you didn't read it.
" I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth. If your point is that the formula is 2 years old so it must be wrong (Pythagoras is rolling in his grave), then why is it that said formula exactly matches the XP I need to get my next level on 3 separate accounts (XB1, PC, PTS)? Dumb luck? "
Yes, I read your post. The XP cost to get from CR10 to cap was one point four billion in 1.6. That is not currently the case, and while I haven't gotten around to modeling out the formula with actual data points, I can tell you that the cost to get from 10-300 has gone from 47m XP when the cap was 501 down to 35.7m today.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »And, your point is?
It's worth remembering that, because you aren't back credited, if you grind for a considerable time, then, stop, the level cap goes up, that doesn't mean you're instantly bumped up to where you would be. So you would end up in a situation where you'd have to earn more XP overall from start to cap, than "intended."
Also worth noting that there are some potential glitches in the overall math, meaning, because of rounding, it's possible you might see the XP targets shuffle. But, realistically, we're talking about a threshold of less than a daily random. If you really want, I can dig out a spreadsheet and run the values, but I don't have that kind of time at the moment.
My point is it requires more XP to go from zero to cap than it ever has in the history of the game.
I haven't run the numbers yet, but I'm pretty sure it requires less than 1.44 billion XP to get to the spending cap.
Again quoting LiquidPony in case you didn't read it.
" I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth. If your point is that the formula is 2 years old so it must be wrong (Pythagoras is rolling in his grave), then why is it that said formula exactly matches the XP I need to get my next level on 3 separate accounts (XB1, PC, PTS)? Dumb luck? "
Yes, I read your post. The XP cost to get from CR10 to cap was one point four billion in 1.6. That is not currently the case, and while I haven't gotten around to modeling out the formula with actual data points, I can tell you that the cost to get from 10-300 has gone from 47m XP when the cap was 501 down to 35.7m today.
The overall amount of XP will be higher to get from 0 to 720 than it was from 0 to 501.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
And your answer to my question is what? Would such a proposal be significant and therefore Pay to Win, or insignificant and therefore a waste of players' money? Or are you simply looking to dumb the game down regardless?
I believe the game should be dumbed down slightly. Even some prominent theory crafters have made remarks in their videos about certain content only being completed by 0.1% of the population is a bit ridiculous.
No, that's fairly normal for most MMOs. The extreme hardcore raiding communities are vanishingly small portions of the overall population. The idea that only 1 in 1k players will ever clear vMA tracks with the community as a whole. ESO does have the intermediate tier where normal content is open to anyone who wants, but remember, RPers, and casual players with no interest in group content won't touch that stuff no matter how accessible you try to make it.
FFXIV and WoW are around 2 - 5% depending on the content.
This is before, or after, WoW's group content degenerated into facerolls?0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
Can already buy experience scrolls. Done1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭notimetocare wrote: »Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
Can already buy experience scrolls. Done
To be fair, I would prefer if experience scrolls worked the same way enlightenment does. You buy X amount of XP acceleration, rather than buying X amount of time. This is one thing I've never liked about the accelerators in ESO, simply because it encourages a kind of frenetic grind that I just don't find enjoyable.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
And your answer to my question is what? Would such a proposal be significant and therefore Pay to Win, or insignificant and therefore a waste of players' money? Or are you simply looking to dumb the game down regardless?
I believe the game should be dumbed down slightly. Even some prominent theory crafters have made remarks in their videos about certain content only being completed by 0.1% of the population is a bit ridiculous.
No, that's fairly normal for most MMOs. The extreme hardcore raiding communities are vanishingly small portions of the overall population. The idea that only 1 in 1k players will ever clear vMA tracks with the community as a whole. ESO does have the intermediate tier where normal content is open to anyone who wants, but remember, RPers, and casual players with no interest in group content won't touch that stuff no matter how accessible you try to make it.
FFXIV and WoW are around 2 - 5% depending on the content.
This is before, or after, WoW's group content degenerated into facerolls?
Log into WoW and "face roll" Antorus Mythic. I'd love to see you face roll it.0 -
Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭notimetocare wrote: »Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
Can already buy experience scrolls. Done
I don't think the OP is advocating for people to buy XP scrolls and play; OP wants to just buy CP outright.
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Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭notimetocare wrote: »Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
Can already buy experience scrolls. Done
I don't think the OP is advocating for people to buy XP scrolls and play; OP wants to just buy CP outright.
0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Juju_beans wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »Many of you are adamant about CP not being significant. How can buying CP be "pay to win" if it's so insignificant? How does that argument stand?
I don't mind which way you face this one, you can either accept the argument that it is significant in which case you're proposing Pay to Win, or you can accept the argument that it isn't significant in which case you're proposing that people waste their money on unnecessary boosts. Which line are you taking?
I believe the grind to cap should in the very least be lessened. Enlightenment level speed or allow the sale of enlightenment.
Can already buy experience scrolls. Done
I don't think the OP is advocating for people to buy XP scrolls and play; OP wants to just buy CP outright.
I encourage you to read through the thread more. I do advocate enlightenment "potions or scrolls" or permanent enlightenment up to the old CP cap (690 at this time).
Once again I encourage you to go back through the many pages of this thread or search my posts to clearly see what I have and haven't said. Thank you.0
This discussion has been closed.