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Disparity between Magicka and Stamina damage vs heals?
Savos_Saren
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It seems that, as ZoS increases the healing abilities for Stamina- will Magicka finally get to raise it's spell power as high as stamina weapon power? Originally, the premises behind stamina classes easily achieving higher weapon damage than magicka classes could achieve spell damage was the fact that stamina classes couldn't heal themselves as well as their magicka counterparts. However, as the game has progressed- stamina healing and survivability has drastically increased.
Stamina self heals are Alliance War Vigor, 2H Momentum (Rally specifically), SnB Absorb Magicka, DW Bloodthirst, Blood Craze, and Lacerate (including its morphs), and finally Draining Shot. This doesn't include the fact that classes have their own stamina heals like Hurricane combined with Critical Surge, Killer's Blade, Leeching Strikes, Cutting Dive, Subterranean Assault, and Soothing Spores.
It seems like stamina is now getting the best of both worlds. Higher damage AND self heals/survivabilty. From a PVP standpoint- it seems like Stamina builds are dominating for DPS and healing. Has anyone else noticed this?
Stamina self heals are Alliance War Vigor, 2H Momentum (Rally specifically), SnB Absorb Magicka, DW Bloodthirst, Blood Craze, and Lacerate (including its morphs), and finally Draining Shot. This doesn't include the fact that classes have their own stamina heals like Hurricane combined with Critical Surge, Killer's Blade, Leeching Strikes, Cutting Dive, Subterranean Assault, and Soothing Spores.
It seems like stamina is now getting the best of both worlds. Higher damage AND self heals/survivabilty. From a PVP standpoint- it seems like Stamina builds are dominating for DPS and healing. Has anyone else noticed this?
Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren
PC NA AD
Savos Saren
8
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Animus-ESO✭✭✭✭✭It's true. If you can master stamina it is a lot more survivable open world with better mobility and immovable speed pots.Dude Where's My Guar?2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Originally, the premises behind stamina classes easily achieving higher weapon damage than magicka classes could achieve spell damage was the fact that stamina classes couldn't heal themselves as well as their magicka counterparts.
This is false. Reason that Stam stacks weapon damage is that mag can stack max magic much higher then they can stack max stam. Average mag build has 40-45k max magic. Average Stam build has 30-35k. Average spell damage unbuffed is around 2.5k and average stam build has 3.5k unbuffed. See how that works? They even out in terms of power because the average skill in the game takes both max stats and the matching damage into account when calulating the damage of the skill.
Before you say anything about the builds that have 6k+ weapon damage, let me tell you about the mag builds that have 60k+ max magic. I personally have 51k max magic on my sorc with 2.1k spell damage unbuffed. This would be higher if zos fixed the mage mundus and the five piece of destruction mastery not scaling with CP, I am missing out on ~800 more magic because of that.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on March 6, 2018 5:43AM10 -
rustic_potato✭✭✭✭✭Learn the basic mechanics behind damage or else you will end up looking like an idiot.
Total damage ~ weapon or spell damage + 0.1(stam or magika).
This is the calculator for damage and heals. So they are almost equal for most stam and magika builds. There are oddites but that is not the norm,I play how I want to.2 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Originally, the premises behind stamina classes easily achieving higher weapon damage than magicka classes could achieve spell damage was the fact that stamina classes couldn't heal themselves as well as their magicka counterparts.
This is false. Reason that Stam stacks weapon damage is that mag can stack max magic much higher then they can stack max stam. Average mag build has 40-45k max magic. Average Stam build has 30-35k. Average spell damage unbuffed is around 2.5k and average stam build has 3.5k unbuffed. See how that works? They even out in terms of power because the average skill in the game takes both max stats and the matching damage into account when calulating the damage of the skill.
Before you say anything about the builds that have 6k+ weapon damage, let me tell you about the mag builds that have 60k+ max magic. I personally have 51k max magic on my sorc with 2.1k spell damage unbuffed. This would be higher if zos fixed the mage mundus and the five piece of destruction mastery not scaling with CP, I am missing out on ~800 more magic because of that.
Annnnd surprise! It's a sorc. Yeah, I've seen it on NBs, too. I've never seen a DK with 60k+ max magicka, though. I'm sure there's probably some random build out there. Then again, my DK has never had 40k magicka either. I have to stack toward health, magicka, and stamina to be more survivable in Cyrodiil (by using all prismatic enchants).
My heavy armor Stamplar has 37k stamina wearing Ravager and Bone Pirate. It seems that the "averages" are a little off.
Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren5 -
smacky✭✭✭40k+ Magicka is easy enough to achieve, but you are talking classes, and there are max magicka benefitds from different races which help, as there are for stam classes too.
I use a high elf Sorc, and use essence of spell power potions for Major Prophecy, Mjoror Intellect and Major Sorcery. This gives me around 45k+ magicka and on my builf about 65% crit rating.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Originally, the premises behind stamina classes easily achieving higher weapon damage than magicka classes could achieve spell damage was the fact that stamina classes couldn't heal themselves as well as their magicka counterparts.
This is false. Reason that Stam stacks weapon damage is that mag can stack max magic much higher then they can stack max stam. Average mag build has 40-45k max magic. Average Stam build has 30-35k. Average spell damage unbuffed is around 2.5k and average stam build has 3.5k unbuffed. See how that works? They even out in terms of power because the average skill in the game takes both max stats and the matching damage into account when calulating the damage of the skill.
Before you say anything about the builds that have 6k+ weapon damage, let me tell you about the mag builds that have 60k+ max magic. I personally have 51k max magic on my sorc with 2.1k spell damage unbuffed. This would be higher if zos fixed the mage mundus and the five piece of destruction mastery not scaling with CP, I am missing out on ~800 more magic because of that.
Annnnd surprise! It's a sorc. Yeah, I've seen it on NBs, too. I've never seen a DK with 60k+ max magicka, though. I'm sure there's probably some random build out there. Then again, my DK has never had 40k magicka either. I have to stack toward health, magicka, and stamina to be more survivable in Cyrodiil (by using all prismatic enchants).
My heavy armor Stamplar has 37k stamina wearing Ravager and Bone Pirate. It seems that the "averages" are a little off.
Lightspeed is right. Mag generally has higher max magicka, with things like mages guild passives etc, wheras stam generally has extra weapon damage, with things like med armour wp buff. This is based mainly off PvE, PvP its a lot more dependant on builds.
With stam builds they can run more damage setups in PvP, mag cannot. I have 40k on my DK with 4 tri glyphs, shackle, valkyn and desert rose, I run the mage stone though.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Originally, the premises behind stamina classes easily achieving higher weapon damage than magicka classes could achieve spell damage was the fact that stamina classes couldn't heal themselves as well as their magicka counterparts.
This is false. Reason that Stam stacks weapon damage is that mag can stack max magic much higher then they can stack max stam. Average mag build has 40-45k max magic. Average Stam build has 30-35k. Average spell damage unbuffed is around 2.5k and average stam build has 3.5k unbuffed. See how that works? They even out in terms of power because the average skill in the game takes both max stats and the matching damage into account when calulating the damage of the skill.
Before you say anything about the builds that have 6k+ weapon damage, let me tell you about the mag builds that have 60k+ max magic. I personally have 51k max magic on my sorc with 2.1k spell damage unbuffed. This would be higher if zos fixed the mage mundus and the five piece of destruction mastery not scaling with CP, I am missing out on ~800 more magic because of that.
Annnnd surprise! It's a sorc. Yeah, I've seen it on NBs, too. I've never seen a DK with 60k+ max magicka, though. I'm sure there's probably some random build out there. Then again, my DK has never had 40k magicka either. I have to stack toward health, magicka, and stamina to be more survivable in Cyrodiil (by using all prismatic enchants).
My heavy armor Stamplar has 37k stamina wearing Ravager and Bone Pirate. It seems that the "averages" are a little off.
Lightspeed is right. Mag generally has higher max magicka, with things like mages guild passives etc, wheras stam generally has extra weapon damage, with things like med armour wp buff. This is based mainly off PvE, PvP its a lot more dependant on builds.
With stam builds they can run more damage setups in PvP, mag cannot. I have 40k on my DK with 4 tri glyphs, shackle, valkyn and desert rose, I run the mage stone though.
Disagree on the stam being able to run more damage setups in PVP. Stam has to focus too much on recovery for that to be an option because of the ridiculous stamina costs of mitigation: roll dodge cooldown, block cost, constant healing because no damage shield, cost poisons with no purge, etc. Magic on the other hand increases there survivability while simultaneously increasing their damage since damage shields scale with max resources primarily.1 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Originally, the premises behind stamina classes easily achieving higher weapon damage than magicka classes could achieve spell damage was the fact that stamina classes couldn't heal themselves as well as their magicka counterparts.
This is false. Reason that Stam stacks weapon damage is that mag can stack max magic much higher then they can stack max stam. Average mag build has 40-45k max magic. Average Stam build has 30-35k. Average spell damage unbuffed is around 2.5k and average stam build has 3.5k unbuffed. See how that works? They even out in terms of power because the average skill in the game takes both max stats and the matching damage into account when calulating the damage of the skill.
Before you say anything about the builds that have 6k+ weapon damage, let me tell you about the mag builds that have 60k+ max magic. I personally have 51k max magic on my sorc with 2.1k spell damage unbuffed. This would be higher if zos fixed the mage mundus and the five piece of destruction mastery not scaling with CP, I am missing out on ~800 more magic because of that.
Annnnd surprise! It's a sorc. Yeah, I've seen it on NBs, too. I've never seen a DK with 60k+ max magicka, though. I'm sure there's probably some random build out there. Then again, my DK has never had 40k magicka either. I have to stack toward health, magicka, and stamina to be more survivable in Cyrodiil (by using all prismatic enchants).
My heavy armor Stamplar has 37k stamina wearing Ravager and Bone Pirate. It seems that the "averages" are a little off.
Lightspeed is right. Mag generally has higher max magicka, with things like mages guild passives etc, wheras stam generally has extra weapon damage, with things like med armour wp buff. This is based mainly off PvE, PvP its a lot more dependant on builds.
With stam builds they can run more damage setups in PvP, mag cannot. I have 40k on my DK with 4 tri glyphs, shackle, valkyn and desert rose, I run the mage stone though.
Disagree on the stam being able to run more damage setups in PVP. Stam has to focus too much on recovery for that to be an option because of the ridiculous stamina costs of mitigation: roll dodge cooldown, block cost, constant healing because no damage shield, cost poisons with no purge, etc. Magic on the other hand increases there survivability while simultaneously increasing their damage since damage shields scale with max resources primarily.
That isn't true though. Stam builds have better regen on account of 15% lower stamina costs comparatively and better heavy attacks. Shields cost a whole lot and are pretty limited in use if you aren't a sorc/NB, and whilst they do scale, for how shields work under multi target pressure, dodge is more effective.
Only templar has purge reliably, and cost poisons for mag's more expensive skills are a lot more painful, not to mention mist is the mag snare removal, which is a resource abuser for limited immunity. Stam mobility plays a lot in how they work too, the ability to get between LoS is too valuable as a form of damage reduction, something much harder for mag to do.
Look at meta builds for each class. Every mag setup has some kind of sustain set, often lich, desert rose, bloodspawn or at the very least two mixed utility sets with sustain 2/3/4 pieces. Shackle comes to mind. Some classes like magDK often run two. You then see stam builds run two heavier damage sets like ravager+truth. Stamblade Spriggans, agility, master+AS weapons.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.4 -
Goshua✭✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Originally, the premises behind stamina classes easily achieving higher weapon damage than magicka classes could achieve spell damage was the fact that stamina classes couldn't heal themselves as well as their magicka counterparts.
This is false. Reason that Stam stacks weapon damage is that mag can stack max magic much higher then they can stack max stam. Average mag build has 40-45k max magic. Average Stam build has 30-35k. Average spell damage unbuffed is around 2.5k and average stam build has 3.5k unbuffed. See how that works? They even out in terms of power because the average skill in the game takes both max stats and the matching damage into account when calulating the damage of the skill.
Before you say anything about the builds that have 6k+ weapon damage, let me tell you about the mag builds that have 60k+ max magic. I personally have 51k max magic on my sorc with 2.1k spell damage unbuffed. This would be higher if zos fixed the mage mundus and the five piece of destruction mastery not scaling with CP, I am missing out on ~800 more magic because of that.
Annnnd surprise! It's a sorc. Yeah, I've seen it on NBs, too. I've never seen a DK with 60k+ max magicka, though. I'm sure there's probably some random build out there. Then again, my DK has never had 40k magicka either. I have to stack toward health, magicka, and stamina to be more survivable in Cyrodiil (by using all prismatic enchants).
My heavy armor Stamplar has 37k stamina wearing Ravager and Bone Pirate. It seems that the "averages" are a little off.
Lightspeed is right. Mag generally has higher max magicka, with things like mages guild passives etc, wheras stam generally has extra weapon damage, with things like med armour wp buff. This is based mainly off PvE, PvP its a lot more dependant on builds.
With stam builds they can run more damage setups in PvP, mag cannot. I have 40k on my DK with 4 tri glyphs, shackle, valkyn and desert rose, I run the mage stone though.
Disagree on the stam being able to run more damage setups in PVP. Stam has to focus too much on recovery for that to be an option because of the ridiculous stamina costs of mitigation: roll dodge cooldown, block cost, constant healing because no damage shield, cost poisons with no purge, etc. Magic on the other hand increases there survivability while simultaneously increasing their damage since damage shields scale with max resources primarily.
Feel the need to say ..anyone using shuffle dodges all day long, block cost is easily fixed, and with enough CP in the right places and pot spamming vigor etc becomes pretty strong. I do sympathise with stam regarding dots and poison.
Also not everyone is a Sorc, who as far as I know are the only ones who benefit from their shield scaling with their main resource pool.
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Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That is all fine and dandy, until you point out that magicka builds have access to an entire skill like dedicated to healing, alongside passives that boost said healing.
Additionally, every class in the game has multiple magicka based class heals, while stam based class heals are few and far between.
Rapid regen or its morphs on their own are pretty much equivalent of anything a stam build can do, and on top of that, magicka builds have access to shields.
As a stam boy, I might be able to pop vigor and a rally to jump back to full HP, but a magicka build can just pop healing ward, and get a shield for the same amount of health, followed by a massive heal.
Also saying that hurricane plus crit surge is a stam heal is rubbish. Surge is going to heal you off of any damage done, magicka or stamina.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Originally, the premises behind stamina classes easily achieving higher weapon damage than magicka classes could achieve spell damage was the fact that stamina classes couldn't heal themselves as well as their magicka counterparts.
This is false. Reason that Stam stacks weapon damage is that mag can stack max magic much higher then they can stack max stam. Average mag build has 40-45k max magic. Average Stam build has 30-35k. Average spell damage unbuffed is around 2.5k and average stam build has 3.5k unbuffed. See how that works? They even out in terms of power because the average skill in the game takes both max stats and the matching damage into account when calulating the damage of the skill.
Before you say anything about the builds that have 6k+ weapon damage, let me tell you about the mag builds that have 60k+ max magic. I personally have 51k max magic on my sorc with 2.1k spell damage unbuffed. This would be higher if zos fixed the mage mundus and the five piece of destruction mastery not scaling with CP, I am missing out on ~800 more magic because of that.
Annnnd surprise! It's a sorc. Yeah, I've seen it on NBs, too. I've never seen a DK with 60k+ max magicka, though. I'm sure there's probably some random build out there. Then again, my DK has never had 40k magicka either. I have to stack toward health, magicka, and stamina to be more survivable in Cyrodiil (by using all prismatic enchants).
My heavy armor Stamplar has 37k stamina wearing Ravager and Bone Pirate. It seems that the "averages" are a little off.
Lightspeed is right. Mag generally has higher max magicka, with things like mages guild passives etc, wheras stam generally has extra weapon damage, with things like med armour wp buff. This is based mainly off PvE, PvP its a lot more dependant on builds.
With stam builds they can run more damage setups in PvP, mag cannot. I have 40k on my DK with 4 tri glyphs, shackle, valkyn and desert rose, I run the mage stone though.
Disagree on the stam being able to run more damage setups in PVP. Stam has to focus too much on recovery for that to be an option because of the ridiculous stamina costs of mitigation: roll dodge cooldown, block cost, constant healing because no damage shield, cost poisons with no purge, etc. Magic on the other hand increases there survivability while simultaneously increasing their damage since damage shields scale with max resources primarily.
That isn't true though. Stam builds have better regen on account of 15% lower stamina costs comparatively and better heavy attacks. Shields cost a whole lot and are pretty limited in use if you aren't a sorc/NB, and whilst they do scale, for how shields work under multi target pressure, dodge is more effective.
Only templar has purge reliably, and cost poisons for mag's more expensive skills are a lot more painful, not to mention mist is the mag snare removal, which is a resource abuser for limited immunity. Stam mobility plays a lot in how they work too, the ability to get between LoS is too valuable as a form of damage reduction, something much harder for mag to do.
Look at meta builds for each class. Every mag setup has some kind of sustain set, often lich, desert rose, bloodspawn or at the very least two mixed utility sets with sustain 2/3/4 pieces. Shackle comes to mind. Some classes like magDK often run two. You then see stam builds run two heavier damage sets like ravager+truth. Stamblade Spriggans, agility, master+AS weapons.
Stam has lower costs but when you block or run your stam recovery is cut off. This makes the difference in cost inconsequential.
The reason there aren't as many recovery sets used by stam builds is that there aren't as many good recovery sets for stam. Period.
Ravager + Truth is a heavy armor build, so it doesn't count.
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LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am reading through this thread and I am wondering if any of these responders actually engage in PVP.
My primary character in PVP is a Mag DK. Like almost all other Magicka based characters/players, I have very little Stamina and Stamina Recovery and no Stamina cost reduction glyphs or points allocated to reducing the Stamina cost of block, roll dodge, sprint or Stamina skills like Retreating Maneuvers. I run out of Stamina quickly. Not only that but I need to cast multiple types of abilities - damage, heals, shields - and my heals (either Dragon Blood or any Resto Staff heal) heal me for far less than Vigor heals a full Stamina build. Overall, with the removal of AOE caps, Vigor heals more people faster and cheaper than even Breath of Life.
So, while I am out healed, I have to use more expensive skills that deal less damage than the typical Stamina user with their cheaper and higher damage skills. In what world is that anywhere close to being a fair fight? That’s before accounting for the horrible Magicka Regen of my class which is one corner of a triangular trade off between Magicka, Spell Damage and Regen.
Then there is the whole light armor Magicka user vs. either a medium or heavy armor Stamina user. That light armor penetration passive does not counteract the decreased physical penetration the light armor provides. It may be great in PVE but it is an entirely different ball game in PVP.
Anybody who says Stamina is not King in PVP does not engage in much PVP in this game.12 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Originally, the premises behind stamina classes easily achieving higher weapon damage than magicka classes could achieve spell damage was the fact that stamina classes couldn't heal themselves as well as their magicka counterparts.
This is false. Reason that Stam stacks weapon damage is that mag can stack max magic much higher then they can stack max stam. Average mag build has 40-45k max magic. Average Stam build has 30-35k. Average spell damage unbuffed is around 2.5k and average stam build has 3.5k unbuffed. See how that works? They even out in terms of power because the average skill in the game takes both max stats and the matching damage into account when calulating the damage of the skill.
Before you say anything about the builds that have 6k+ weapon damage, let me tell you about the mag builds that have 60k+ max magic. I personally have 51k max magic on my sorc with 2.1k spell damage unbuffed. This would be higher if zos fixed the mage mundus and the five piece of destruction mastery not scaling with CP, I am missing out on ~800 more magic because of that.
Annnnd surprise! It's a sorc. Yeah, I've seen it on NBs, too. I've never seen a DK with 60k+ max magicka, though. I'm sure there's probably some random build out there. Then again, my DK has never had 40k magicka either. I have to stack toward health, magicka, and stamina to be more survivable in Cyrodiil (by using all prismatic enchants).
My heavy armor Stamplar has 37k stamina wearing Ravager and Bone Pirate. It seems that the "averages" are a little off.
not sure what you are trying to say here, i have no bias for sorcs, i have 10 different toons , on stam one mag of each class, my mag dk has 41k mag, with grothdarr, bsw, 4 piece IE fire staff and vma fire staff back bar. the reason you do not see a dk with 60k is that they dont have a a 8% max magic passive or active skill. so wardens, nb and sorcs are the onlys one you will see getting that much max magic, temps and dks have to make do with 8% less.
my stamplar has 40k stam and 3.5k weapon damage as well, though so my stamplar is a bit on the high end as well. i wear hulkings and Sellitrix with endurance, master daggers and vma bow of course on her.
of course this is all for pve, did not see the op clarify they are talking about pvp. i have no input on pvp.0 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The only issue I have with stamina vs magicka heals is that for stamina the heals always goes to the caster where as most magicka heals can go to other nearby players instead of the caster.
I run 2 magicka hot's and most of the time I don't even get the heals. Would be nice if magicka could get a guaranteed heal for the caster or at least give us a 50% cost reduction if our heal goes to someone else.
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LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The only issue I have with stamina vs magicka heals is that for stamina the heals always goes to the caster where as most magicka heals can go to other nearby players instead of the caster.
Vigor heals every player its yellow wave touches and it scales mightily with Stamina. Two players using Vigor can quickly heal everyone in a ball group.Edited by LonePirate on March 6, 2018 11:46PM1 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LonePirate wrote: »The only issue I have with stamina vs magicka heals is that for stamina the heals always goes to the caster where as most magicka heals can go to other nearby players instead of the caster.
Vigor heals every player it’s yellow wave touches and it scales mightily with Stamina. Two players using Vigor can quickly heal everyone in a ball group.
At least with vigor though the caster always gets the heal also. For magicka you have to slot a resto staff and even then chances are someone else is going to get the heal instead of you. Time for a magicka vigor morph
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Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Originally, the premises behind stamina classes easily achieving higher weapon damage than magicka classes could achieve spell damage was the fact that stamina classes couldn't heal themselves as well as their magicka counterparts.
This is false. Reason that Stam stacks weapon damage is that mag can stack max magic much higher then they can stack max stam. Average mag build has 40-45k max magic. Average Stam build has 30-35k. Average spell damage unbuffed is around 2.5k and average stam build has 3.5k unbuffed. See how that works? They even out in terms of power because the average skill in the game takes both max stats and the matching damage into account when calulating the damage of the skill.
Before you say anything about the builds that have 6k+ weapon damage, let me tell you about the mag builds that have 60k+ max magic. I personally have 51k max magic on my sorc with 2.1k spell damage unbuffed. This would be higher if zos fixed the mage mundus and the five piece of destruction mastery not scaling with CP, I am missing out on ~800 more magic because of that.
Annnnd surprise! It's a sorc. Yeah, I've seen it on NBs, too. I've never seen a DK with 60k+ max magicka, though. I'm sure there's probably some random build out there. Then again, my DK has never had 40k magicka either. I have to stack toward health, magicka, and stamina to be more survivable in Cyrodiil (by using all prismatic enchants).
My heavy armor Stamplar has 37k stamina wearing Ravager and Bone Pirate. It seems that the "averages" are a little off.
not sure what you are trying to say here, i have no bias for sorcs, i have 10 different toons , on stam one mag of each class, my mag dk has 41k mag, with grothdarr, bsw, 4 piece IE fire staff and vma fire staff back bar. the reason you do not see a dk with 60k is that they dont have a a 8% max magic passive or active skill. so wardens, nb and sorcs are the onlys one you will see getting that much max magic, temps and dks have to make do with 8% less.
my stamplar has 40k stam and 3.5k weapon damage as well, though so my stamplar is a bit on the high end as well. i wear hulkings and Sellitrix with endurance, master daggers and vma bow of course on her.
of course this is all for pve, did not see the op clarify they are talking about pvp. i have no input on pvp.
Second to last line of my OP- “From a PVP standpoint...”Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Originally, the premises behind stamina classes easily achieving higher weapon damage than magicka classes could achieve spell damage was the fact that stamina classes couldn't heal themselves as well as their magicka counterparts.
This is false. Reason that Stam stacks weapon damage is that mag can stack max magic much higher then they can stack max stam. Average mag build has 40-45k max magic. Average Stam build has 30-35k. Average spell damage unbuffed is around 2.5k and average stam build has 3.5k unbuffed. See how that works? They even out in terms of power because the average skill in the game takes both max stats and the matching damage into account when calulating the damage of the skill.
Before you say anything about the builds that have 6k+ weapon damage, let me tell you about the mag builds that have 60k+ max magic. I personally have 51k max magic on my sorc with 2.1k spell damage unbuffed. This would be higher if zos fixed the mage mundus and the five piece of destruction mastery not scaling with CP, I am missing out on ~800 more magic because of that.
Annnnd surprise! It's a sorc. Yeah, I've seen it on NBs, too. I've never seen a DK with 60k+ max magicka, though. I'm sure there's probably some random build out there. Then again, my DK has never had 40k magicka either. I have to stack toward health, magicka, and stamina to be more survivable in Cyrodiil (by using all prismatic enchants).
My heavy armor Stamplar has 37k stamina wearing Ravager and Bone Pirate. It seems that the "averages" are a little off.
not sure what you are trying to say here, i have no bias for sorcs, i have 10 different toons , on stam one mag of each class, my mag dk has 41k mag, with grothdarr, bsw, 4 piece IE fire staff and vma fire staff back bar. the reason you do not see a dk with 60k is that they dont have a a 8% max magic passive or active skill. so wardens, nb and sorcs are the onlys one you will see getting that much max magic, temps and dks have to make do with 8% less.
my stamplar has 40k stam and 3.5k weapon damage as well, though so my stamplar is a bit on the high end as well. i wear hulkings and Sellitrix with endurance, master daggers and vma bow of course on her.
of course this is all for pve, did not see the op clarify they are talking about pvp. i have no input on pvp.
Second to last line of my OP- “From a PVP standpoint...”
yes i see that now, read my last 2 sentences, "did not see the op clarify..." means that i did not see that with my first post.0 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭i don't see a problem in pvp my mag fire dk and we area talking about sothia (none cp) has 2700 spell damage and 52% crit with no major or minor buffsMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike0
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f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stam toons have:
1) Better heals. Yes, I dare you to try to compete with a stam sorc or stam warden in heals. My mNB does 2.5k self HPS when speced for that for vMA (refreshing and swallow soul). My stam sorc does 6.5k without specking for it. Mag toons basically have to run heals back bar in PVP.
2) Stam has hella better CC's in PVP. You want clench? No, nobody wants that low damage, high cost, garbage skill but it is what we have.
3) Enough dodge rolls to actually avoid some things.
4) Fast enough to LOS or escape pretty much at will.
5) A snare drop / temporary snare immunity that that allows you to attack while it is active and does not require vampireism. (This may be the most important advantage in PVP as snares are omnipresent)
6) 15% cheaper skills in PVP and effectively 23% (Vicious Ophidian) cheaper skills in PVE.
7) Generally higher damage per skill and higher overall dps.
8) Generally less dependence on small area ground DOT's.
9) Significantly higher armor rating.
10) Can sprint with little cost pretty much whenever you want.
11) Easy to defile what little heals those once great healing mag toons had.
12) Better synergy with sword and board defensive line for PVP.
13) A much better weapon to do fully charged heavy attacks on.
14) Generally better armor sets (where is my magic Viscous Ophidian or Haulking Dragur) Man would I ever use VO in PVE and HD in PVP.
15) Don't have VD. Yea, I said it. Wrobel gave us VD and the symptoms are all our skills got nerfed. sap essence used to be good. It's garbage now and that is true for a handful of other skills as well.
16) An extra set peice and more weapon damage from the extra sword. Huge advantage.
17) Generally better weapon passives.
18) 3 Weapon skill lines to utilize instead of 1.
Magica toons have:
1) Better ranged damage (though not as much better than it was due to regular bow buffs)
2) Shields (yea, it matters in PVE because you can't roll dodge (or even sometimes block) many boss mechanics and some just require shields because ZOS does not understand the consequences of many of their actions)
3) Better Ground DOT's in the case of mNB and mSorc (which are the only two anybody plays I might add.)
4) The ability to have a resto staff on one bar but also, in many cases, the necessity to use it.
5) Most mag toons are much better designed because they were conceptually put together pre-Wrobel and those folks were better at their job. That is why many players still play them even though they are not in a good place right now.
Yea, mag is in a bad place right now generally and especially in PVP where the mobility difference it out of control.
Edited by f047ys3v3n on March 8, 2018 4:44AMI am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.2 -
SquareSausage✭✭✭✭✭This thread reads like:
'Its not fair, yours is so much better and easier.'
'No, yours is better and easier'
'No, u'
'No, u'
No, u'
..
Breakfast KingPS4 EU2 -
greylox✭✭✭✭✭Survivability of mag is the payoff.PC EU
House of the Black Lotus
*{Smokes-in-the-Shade }* (Mag pet Sorc Argonian, prolific thief, willing participant of the dark arts, gardener of exotic...herbs)
{Lugdum The Mechanist} (Hybrid Orc Templar, collector of ancient Ayleid smoking pipes)
{Rantoul} (Dark Elf Magknight, likes an ale between boss fights, has been known to offer daedric princes out in a fist fight)
{Red, The Wanderer} (Bosmer stam sorc and hunter extraordinaire)
{Shoots-For-Stars} (Argonian Mag pet Sorc Ice mage Healer)
*{Jinny the spark }* (Sassy Imperial Stamplar)
{Crezzi the Drifter} (Magblade khajiit burglar, available for questionable operations)
{Grif the Despised} (StamKnight Tank Nord, Eastmarch Master Drinker and spinner of tall yarns)
{Geraldine Stone-Heart} (High Elf MagSorc Ice Tank, Mystic, practitioner of the ancient arts)
*{Anawinn}* (Stam pet Ward Redguard, Mother to a bear and an unruly Hunger,Librarian, field medic and natures fist)
{*}Mains
{ CP 900+ }
Caretaker of Battle Island (Grand Topal), the holiday destination for the discerning warrior
Residing in Stay-Moist Mansion-Shadowfen - The Smoking Den (as of 6th feb 2017)0 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭OP - if you think stamina > magicka, swap to playing stamina. Simples. Don't even need to change toons. If your class isn't great in stamina (or magicka) thats a class issue, not a stam vs magicka one.
Grass is always greener...
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You are at complete misconsumption here.
Stamina is far off from having the best healing capabilities in the game, everything except for stamwarden loses in the healing department to: magwarden, magplar, magdk, magnb
The number of heals doesn't determine their effectiveness:
Blood craze is a 800-1k heal every 2 seconds
Bloodthirst isn't used in cyro due to it being a channel and in pve no one uses it anymore
Draining shot requires you to stun your enemy which means the best you can get is a heal every 7 seconds
Lacerate is just a joke, low damage and bad heals
Absorb magicka gives you weak heals when you're not speccing into max health
Vigor and Rally are the only really viable heals a stamchar has.
Rally can't be used by heavy builds as you need to have some sort of snare removal meaning either you take more damage by running medium or you no burst heal when using heavy.
When we see the first endgame viable stamina healers then we can say that stam healing capabilities compare to their magicka counterpart
For the overall balance stamina and magicka are both fairly well balanced except for individual classes. Here is what the class Balance looks for pve and PvP
PvP:
Stamnb & Stamwarden are miles ahead of everyone else.
Magnb is on top of the balanced specs.
Magdk, Magplar, Stamplar, Stamsorc, Magwarden, Magsorc are right behind magnb
And far behind we have stamdks on the bottom with almost no reason to be played except for nostalgia.0 -
NoFlash✭✭✭For pvp, Stam is better than mag for all the reasons said above. For pve, mag is better (easier) due to shields.
Also knowing your class and skill level play the biggest part in eso. People of equal skill match up then it goes to class balance or whoever makes the first mistake.
It's mostly a l2p issue, but overall PvP, Stam has been ahead since vd first came out then it was that short time where everyone was a bomb blade or used Jesus beam.
All in all, Stam too for PvP, mag for pve
Edit: R.I.P. Jesus beamEdited by NoFlash on March 8, 2018 12:42PMDaggerfall Covenant
The Ninja Squirrels0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP - if you think stamina > magicka, swap to playing stamina. Simples. Don't even need to change toons. If your class isn't great in stamina (or magicka) thats a class issue, not a stam vs magicka one.
Grass is always greener...
Sorry I'm going to have to agree here. Stamina atm is better than magicka in all areas of the game except PvE healer.
Stamina has higher burst and sustain dps atm.
Stamina has much better mobility at the moment compared to magicka. Since ZOS gave stamina heal equivalent or better then magicka's. Can Magicka also have dodge rolling, block, break free, bash, and sneak, be charged off of which even resources is the highest.
Stamina is much tougher than magicka.
Stamina feats are more powerful and much cheaper than magicka spells.
Stamina has cheaper and more powerful ultimates than magicka.
Stamina now even has a decent shield now.
Stamina is just unquestionable better then magicka when fighting multiple enemies.
Actually Stamina is just heads and shoulders better than magicka even more so this patch.
And anyone who would dare tell me to try stamina if I'm so sure. I have and geared most of my stamina characters out. There is a distinct reason nearly every 1 v X streamer, is 9 times out of 10 on his or her Stamina characters. Stamina is just beyond overtuned atm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FQOvpO5_QM&feature=youtu.be
4
let's Nerf helping on all dps 
Make healers great again. 