How do MagSorc survive in pvp? (Us regular folks, not the 720's all in gold...)

Izariel · March 2018

I am at about 245 CP with a mixture of purple Vampire Lord and Necropotence sets, light. I cannot, for the life of me, survive in pvp for more than 2 seconds. I am using a top tier purple lightning staff. (Vampire I think)

BAM, HIT....DEAD....EVERY TIME...

I use my shield as I am supposed to, I spam it like no other, but still- BAM...HIT...DEAD...

Hardened shield doesn't seems to do much, plus you can't cast it while knocked down or stunned. I tried Bound armor, which is nice because you don't have to cast it, but the defensive bonus is so small it is negligible.

Then i see others who have 6 people attacking them (Dk's and Pally's usually) and they are just laughing). It is so frustrating to have pvp be so imbalanced. Do i have to give up light armor and wear full set of heavy with a shield to survive for more than 2 seconds? My offense is already extremely weak as I have a hard time killing anyone as it is, but if I had to do this I would give up what little offensive ability i have.

What are your suggestions to be more effective and not an instant kill for anyone that happens across me?

Biro123 · March 2018

Check Malcolm's vid about a page or so down on this board.

But with low-cp - it will make a fairly big difference unless you're playing in a no-cp campaign.

Pijng · March 2018

Here – https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/398585/video-pvp-advanced-guide-to-1vx-magicka-sorcerer-malcolm#latest

Beardimus · March 2018

noCP will help, get in Sotha or Battlegrounds.

Your experience is that of many Sorc my friend, this forum will tell you Sorc are u killable tanks with their wards lol. Of course a Pro can make Sorc look awesome but most start out as you do.

You must have a heal, so Healing Ward or Twilight really. People here will tell you to triple stack but honestly that's a resource burn if you haven't got it.

Got boundless storm on? That helps. Use the Pets to break LOS. Use terrain. Don't just stand and duke it out.

You got enough Stamina? Out of stam = dead. Tri pots, tri Food all needed.

You need 5 light as a Sorc. To crit, pen etc. Of you go heavy you might survive a few seconds more but so will they.

Maybe post full build, traits etc and your CP might help.

jaws343 · March 2018

Honestly, the best way to learn how to survive in PVP is to roll a low level toon and take it into Kyne to learn. Run without shields and learn what works and what doesn't. Also, run every class in Kyne to learn their strengths and weaknesses. That is the best way to understand ways to improve your play and your survival. Personally, I ran around 10 characters through Kyne when I first started learning how to PVP and now I run exclusively in Vivec, even on under 50 toons that I am leveling.

Mavi · March 2018

Use 5 l 1 h and 1 m (undaunted passives). Try to have a heavy chest, medium legs and the rest light. Use impen in all of it and 100 points in bastion (champion points). Pets are garbage in pvp making necropotence not good for it. Try shacklebreaker or amberplasm with seducer or wizards riposte. Your jewels MUST be arcane with at leasy 1 recovery glyph. Witchmother potent brew helps a lot with sustain. Use the daedric trap to stop a nightblade combo. And potions

Leandor · March 2018

The main advice: learn to preempt attacks. Your shields are and always will be a strong defensive tool, but you need to cast them before you need them.

The second advice: immovable pots are your best friends. Columbine + Wormwood + Bugloss or Columbine + Blessed Thistle + Namira's Rot are both really useful potions.

Third advice: forget about your well thought out set combinations and join the meta crowd. Vampire lord is a completely useless set in my humble opinion. Just asking out of curiosity: which pet have you double barred?

Biro123 · March 2018

Mavi wrote: »

Use 5 l 1 h and 1 m (undaunted passives). Try to have a heavy chest, medium legs and the rest light. Use impen in all of it and 100 points in bastion (champion points). Pets are garbage in pvp making necropotence not good for it. Try shacklebreaker or amberplasm with seducer or wizards riposte. Your jewels MUST be arcane with at leasy 1 recovery glyph. Witchmother potent brew helps a lot with sustain. Use the daedric trap to stop a nightblade combo. And potions

I don't agree with some of this.
I find a mix of impen/well-fitted works best (Malcolm's vid indicates no impen, but I probably wouldn't recommend that for a new sorc)
Not all pets are garbage in PVP. Twilight matriarch works VERY will if you can keep it on a tight leash (ie not on console) and can keep track of its health and recognise that you sometimes need to re-shield just to protect your pet.
100 in Bastion is too much and not particularly cost-efficient. (not that you have 100 cp to spare). You get a better investment from splitting it between bastion and those stars that reduce incoming damage (which helps your shields last longer)

Defensive rune is probably a good idea though to give yourself time to react while learning the ropes.

Keep your shields up. Always keep your shields up in a combat zone.

Use resto ulti for the big heals and major protection.

Feanor · March 2018

Best advice if you want to train your PvP skills in PvE: Do vMA. Lots of it. If you can do it successfully after some training you’ll also have it easier on PvP because both modes are about the same thing: target prioritizing and surviving burst damage.

As for Sorcs you really don’t need to shield stack. Hardened/Empowered Ward and Healing Ward is enough if you use these correctly. Sorc shields are not about tanking all damage - they are about dampening the burst. That and awareness for terrain and allies and of course your enemies will take you a long way. It takes practice.

Also running pets is not ideal in open world PvP, and you probably shouldn’t use Vampire Cloak. The damage mitigation isn’t that useful because you should avoid that damage in the first place. Still, sets don’t make or break it - it’s about getting the feel how to play the class and about positioning and kiting. Another thing: Always gold your weapons out, the difference in damage is noticeable. Rest of the gear is fine in purple, no need to gold these.

Izariel · March 2018

I don't have the full set of either. I think i have 4 of both. Vampire gives good damage buffs, while necro gives more mana. I do not run with a pet. My main bar is.

Mages wrath, Crystal Frags, Force Pulse, Liquid Lightning, Hardened Ward. Destro Ult
Second: Power Surge, Illustrious Healing, Inner Light, Degeneration, Deadric Curse. Atro

These are my most common skills which I use.

Thank for all your help. I am watching the video that was suggested.

Mavi · March 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Mavi wrote: »

Use 5 l 1 h and 1 m (undaunted passives). Try to have a heavy chest, medium legs and the rest light. Use impen in all of it and 100 points in bastion (champion points). Pets are garbage in pvp making necropotence not good for it. Try shacklebreaker or amberplasm with seducer or wizards riposte. Your jewels MUST be arcane with at leasy 1 recovery glyph. Witchmother potent brew helps a lot with sustain. Use the daedric trap to stop a nightblade combo. And potions

I don't agree with some of this.
I find a mix of impen/well-fitted works best (Malcolm's vid indicates no impen, but I probably wouldn't recommend that for a new sorc)
Not all pets are garbage in PVP. Twilight matriarch works VERY will if you can keep it on a tight leash (ie not on console) and can keep track of its health and recognise that you sometimes need to re-shield just to protect your pet.
100 in Bastion is too much and not particularly cost-efficient. (not that you have 100 cp to spare). You get a better investment from splitting it between bastion and those stars that reduce incoming damage (which helps your shields last longer)

Defensive rune is probably a good idea though to give yourself time to react while learning the ropes.

Keep your shields up. Always keep your shields up in a combat zone.

Use resto ulti for the big heals and major protection.

Can you share your CP distribution? I always land 100 points there, a new approach seems nice. Also, no third bar? How do you manage to slot some buffs like boundless storm and rhe df rune?

The_Brosteen · March 2018

Wait.... Is this a buff sorcs thread O.o

Izariel · March 2018

I have about 75 in elemental expert
75 Arcanist
40 light armor, 35 spell absorption.

CP

Biro123 · March 2018

Izariel wrote: »

I don't have the full set of either. I think i have 4 of both. Vampire gives good damage buffs, while necro gives more mana. I do not run with a pet. My main bar is.

Mages wrath, Crystal Frags, Force Pulse, Liquid Lightning, Hardened Ward. Destro Ult
Second: Power Surge, Illustrious Healing, Inner Light, Degeneration, Deadric Curse. Atro

These are my most common skills which I use.

Thank for all your help. I am watching the video that was suggested.

I hope you're not running 5 necro without any pets..?

On your skills, I'd suggest a few changes..

Liquid Lightning isn't too useful in PVP - people just move out of the way.

Not sure what illustrious healing is off the top of my head.. I guess it isn't very commonly used. Most sorcs go with healing ward. I prefer to use either combat prayer, dark conversion or twilight matriarch depending which build.

Why put inner light on your back bar? Better off on the front to benefit from more crits/damage.

Surge/Degeneration are both providing the same buff - drop one of them.

Get some mobility - Some of the strongest tools a sorc has for surviving are those that get him out of trouble - ie mobility. Ball of Lightning and Boundless Storm.

I prefer meteor to destro ult when solo as you can use it while keeping at range.
Best use of Atro is to hide behind it making it difficult for your enemies to target you - if not doing that, I suggest switching to the resto ulti.

Mavi · March 2018

Izariel wrote: »

I don't have the full set of either. I think i have 4 of both. Vampire gives good damage buffs, while necro gives more mana. I do not run with a pet. My main bar is.

Mages wrath, Crystal Frags, Force Pulse, Liquid Lightning, Hardened Ward. Destro Ult
Second: Power Surge, Illustrious Healing, Inner Light, Degeneration, Deadric Curse. Atro

These are my most common skills which I use.

Thank for all your help. I am watching the video that was suggested.

Pulse seems to be underperforming because we dont have the crystal frag cc anymore. I would recommend using flame reach instead, or else you gonna run without a single cc. Liquid lightning is a good group tool, dont use it when alone. You also need streak or ball of lightning to get los. Also, ilustrious healing is a grouo heal imo you should slot healing ward for solo play

Lotka · March 2018

Annulment, hardened ward, line of sight, run with group, move around. kill them before they kill you. Dying is fun anyway. Set up an FC and just get back up and go.

Izariel · March 2018

Thanks for the advice. I will make some changes.

Maulkin · March 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Check Malcolm's vid about a page or so down on this board.

But with low-cp - it will make a fairly big difference unless you're playing in a no-cp campaign.

Pijng wrote: »

Here – https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/398585/video-pvp-advanced-guide-to-1vx-magicka-sorcerer-malcolm#latest

I don't think I would recommend that build to new Sorcerers in the slightest. No offence meant to Malcolm it's a great build for him and very potent in capable hands, but I wouldn't recommend an inexperienced Sorc player to roll with well fitted traits and 0 crit resists. Not to mention that it doesn't work with no/low CP because it's based around dodge cost reduction. It requires you to reach a certain level before it can be good in your hands. If you're not there yet, it's a deathwish. 1 screw up and you're dead.

New/inexperienced players will screw up a lot. You need something that doesn't die so quickly to start to understand the mechanics and what you're supposed to avoid vs what you're supposed to eat etc. I would recommend something along the lines of Necropotence with Matriarch pet and Wiz Riposte. Big shields, best damage mitigation and on demand heals. Focus on survivability to allow for the learning experience to happen.

I will also recommend vMA like someone else said. Hones the reactions quite a bit.

TarrNokk · March 2018

The greatest step in forthcoming with my mag sorc was, when I understood how shield stacking works. Use hardened or dampen and stack it with healing ward from resto staff. BE Sure to cast first healing ward and secure it with the other shield as the healing ward gives you the ful heal capability when it expires. Learn this to do proper and you got half way.

jaws343 · March 2018

Izariel wrote: »

I have about 75 in elemental expert
75 Arcanist
40 light armor, 35 spell absorption.

CP

1 thought with your CP, ditch the 75 in one node setup you have. The CP are weighted to provide the best benefit to the first points you put in. The difference between 56 CP and 75 is minimal in most nodes. As you get more CP, adding to get these nodes to 75 may be beneficial, but it isn't helping you now.

I would drop your ele expert to 56 (or the next lowest jump point) and put points into Elfborn or master at arms.

I would also drop points out of light armor and spell absorption, lowering them both down to 25 (or 0) and boosting bastion to at least 56 (or whatever the jump point is) and then crit resistance with excess points. This will give you better shields and help with crit mitigation when your shields are down. As a light armor sorc, you damage mitigation is mostly coming from shields anyways and the amount you get from these two CP nodes isn't really helping much. (Plus, you are probably better off putting points into Ele Defender and Hardy over light armor and spell absorption)

And for Arcanist, you can probably drop it down to 56 points and put the remaining points into Tumbling. It will help you out with breaking free and roll dodging. And the percentage or two you lose from Arcanist aren't helping you now if you die within a few seconds anyways.

i also find that until you get comfortable with pvp, running tri stat food is going to be your best option. It provides a substantial boost to all three stat pools and with more stamina, you can maneuver better.

WrathOfInnos · March 2018

Did you know that CP720 is the most common level? Also gold armor and jewelry makes almost no difference. Gold weapons, however, are very important.

LittlePinkDot · March 2018

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Wait.... Is this a buff sorcs thread O.o

Yes buff sorcs! They need it badly.
I did way better with my level 42 stamblade in Shor and I dont even have good gear yet or grim focus, and im doing an experimental non meta build.

NyassaV · March 2018

You probably die cuz there are to many people? Practice in duelz more

TheDoomsdayMonster · March 2018

Leandor wrote: »

Vampire lord is a completely useless set in my humble opinion.

Didgerion · March 2018

Izariel wrote: »

I am at about 245 CP with a mixture of purple Vampire Lord and Necropotence sets, light. I cannot, for the life of me, survive in pvp for more than 2 seconds. I am using a top tier purple lightning staff. (Vampire I think)

BAM, HIT....DEAD....EVERY TIME...

I use my shield as I am supposed to, I spam it like no other, but still- BAM...HIT...DEAD...

Hardened shield doesn't seems to do much, plus you can't cast it while knocked down or stunned. I tried Bound armor, which is nice because you don't have to cast it, but the defensive bonus is so small it is negligible.

Then i see others who have 6 people attacking them (Dk's and Pally's usually) and they are just laughing). It is so frustrating to have pvp be so imbalanced. Do i have to give up light armor and wear full set of heavy with a shield to survive for more than 2 seconds? My offense is already extremely weak as I have a hard time killing anyone as it is, but if I had to do this I would give up what little offensive ability i have.

What are your suggestions to be more effective and not an instant kill for anyone that happens across me?

It also depends who attacks you.
On one hand five weak players can hardly dent your shields while on the other hand a skillful night blade can two-shot you.

The above is true even after you fully min-max your gear.

Sandman929 · March 2018

TarrNokk wrote: »

The greatest step in forthcoming with my mag sorc was, when I understood how shield stacking works. Use hardened or dampen and stack it with healing ward from resto staff. BE Sure to cast first healing ward and secure it with the other shield as the healing ward gives you the ful heal capability when it expires. Learn this to do proper and you got half way.

I was under the impression that damage shields were first on, first off. Meaning if you want the full healing ward you would cast Hardened/Harness first, Healing Ward second so that the first on shield would absorb damage first? No?

Waffennacht · March 2018

Sandman929 wrote: »

TarrNokk wrote: »

The greatest step in forthcoming with my mag sorc was, when I understood how shield stacking works. Use hardened or dampen and stack it with healing ward from resto staff. BE Sure to cast first healing ward and secure it with the other shield as the healing ward gives you the ful heal capability when it expires. Learn this to do proper and you got half way.

I was under the impression that damage shields were first on, first off. Meaning if you want the full healing ward you would cast Hardened/Harness first, Healing Ward second so that the first on shield would absorb damage first? No?

I'm fairly sure this is still the case

Kartalin · March 2018

jaws343 wrote: »

Izariel wrote: »

I have about 75 in elemental expert
75 Arcanist
40 light armor, 35 spell absorption.

CP

1 thought with your CP, ditch the 75 in one node setup you have. The CP are weighted to provide the best benefit to the first points you put in. The difference between 56 CP and 75 is minimal in most nodes. As you get more CP, adding to get these nodes to 75 may be beneficial, but it isn't helping you now.

I would drop your ele expert to 56 (or the next lowest jump point) and put points into Elfborn or master at arms.

I would also drop points out of light armor and spell absorption, lowering them both down to 25 (or 0) and boosting bastion to at least 56 (or whatever the jump point is) and then crit resistance with excess points. This will give you better shields and help with crit mitigation when your shields are down. As a light armor sorc, you damage mitigation is mostly coming from shields anyways and the amount you get from these two CP nodes isn't really helping much. (Plus, you are probably better off putting points into Ele Defender and Hardy over light armor and spell absorption)

And for Arcanist, you can probably drop it down to 56 points and put the remaining points into Tumbling. It will help you out with breaking free and roll dodging. And the percentage or two you lose from Arcanist aren't helping you now if you die within a few seconds anyways.

Yeah I don’t go past 56 cp on any star for any of my characters really. Maaaybe would consider 64 for Elemental Expert or Bastion on a magsorc at most.

Jump points for a 15% buff tree:
56 points: 12%
64 points: 13%
75 points: 14%
100 points: 15%

You get seriously diminishing returns from 56 points on. There are enough other useful stars we can bump up rather than pushing something to 100.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2018

Simply put, Sorc is actually one of the worst defensive classes in PvP, if not the worst currently. Shields are strong in 1v1, but they are bad when out numbered. The flip side is that unlike a DK that can act as a ridiculous damage sponge, a Sorc can 2-3 shot people from 28 meters away.

That said, you can make it work. First, you don’t spam 1 shield, you stack 3. They are always your first priority. You heals suck, your block mitigation sucks, but you have the biggest shield in the playground. Always stack hardened ward and harness magic, and when you are below about 70% health, stack healing ward as well. This gives you between 3-4 skills at most between your shield stack, use these to line up damage. If your shields drop, you die.

A few other things. More magic equals more shields, but that said, pets are pretty weak in PvP. Necro is not your friend. Also, resistances are meaningless when you have shields, so don’t spend a ton of bar space with things like bound aegis. Impen is also useless when your shields up, that said, you do want a fair amount of impen for when they do eventually go down. Also, blocking does nothing with shields up except drain your Stam. It doesn’t mitigate damage, so don’t block cast your shields. Only block to stop things like knockbacks or if your shields are completely down.

Another set I would highly recommend is wizards riposte. It is an extremely strong defensive set, and you only need it on your back bar. I would also check out shacklebreaker. Probably the best all around stat set in the game.

Zander98 · March 2018

Easy answer?
You don't.
No class in the game is as unforgiving if you are caught with your pants down.
I've PVPed on a mag sorc the life of the game and I die constantly. To be fair....almost everyone dies in PvP more than they'd like.
So what has experience given me? The knowledge that most of my deaths are my fault.
Sorcs are the preemptive class. The shields have to be up before damage hits. The burst comes 3.5 seconds after you start attacking. All the tools in the toolkit are made to attempt to play a step ahead instead of being more reactive.
On a very basic level...if I die I likely should have streaked a few times about 30 seconds prior.
Streak is a great tool but it's not made for escaping melee. You will just be gap close ridden till you explode. Having said that...it is the greatest tool for your survival. Always pay attention to your surroundings. Always make sure there is a tree or a hill to break your enemies line of sight within a bolts distance. Look at the battles as they present themselves in front of you. If it looks like 3 stamina build are heading towards you and are a few steps from now range, use a bolt defensively or for positioning then. You can't always make it the battle you want but you can try to make it as advantageous as possible.
While that way of looking at bolt might feel dismissive of the skill it isn't. It is still the best mobility skill in the game. NOT the best escape skill. But the best mobility skill. Use it to set the battle field up.
Shield stacking is huge, and I would suggest early on shacking them as you run around towns or keeps. Different players arrange skills in various ways...I like my hardened ward on my destroy and healing ward on my resto. You can use the weapon swap to cancel the shielding animation. Just run around popping them. Pop, pop. Pop, pop. Eventually it will be in your muscle memory and you'll do it without thinking at perfect timing. It takes a little while, but it'll become natural to you.
Even with that though, always remember, your goal in any fight is to be on both of your feet. If you get caught on your heels it is very hard to get the fight back to even against a competent player. Use bolt early and often to reset a fight not starting the way you want. I know it sucks to have to back out and start the fight all over again, but that is the strength of the class. Only sorcs and nbs can do that. Other classes would if they could.
Other people will give advice on skills and builds. But playstyle wise this could help. Just things to look at.
And you will die. A lot. The good players do also. But you should get better over time. Don't feel bad about it.
Also play low cp. Lol. Lower burst, higher TTK for learning the mechanics.

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

Stop talkin about balance like you know much about it. If you need better survivability build for it. You are not supposed to face tank 6 people on a LA magsorc. Good sorcs survive with mobility. Bad ones try to tank everything. Shieldstacking is strong but Its not a god mode toggle.