[Video] PvP - Advanced Guide to 1vX & Magicka Sorcerer - Now updated with Gameplay

MalcolM24

Hello everyone
I made this small guide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG_TUtXRVDs&lc=z222zrv40v2sely5h04t1aokg3ttthvsfkcgzdjqwtmgbk0h00410

This guide is based on my experience with magicka sorcerer, but is by no means complete, otherwise the video would be even longer x) I talk a lot about my playstyle/build, because that is the best I can advise to anyone (otherwise I wouldn't run it ofc). Throughout the video I also explain things about other playstyles, and I explore diffrent options/substitutes.

Additional Remarks:
- No cp: I wouldn't recommend going there in general, it's impossible to kite, and what's the point of playing sorc then?
- Pets: They run away or get killed ok

Timestamps:
0:10 Intro 1:12 Why Sorcerer? 3:32 Defensive Playstyle 12:06 Offensive Playstyle 18:06 Gear 23:35 Utility 28:10 Skills 34:27 Animation Cancelling 38:24 Passives 41:54 Champion Points 46:56 Kite Commentary 51:24 Summary & Outro

I know my editing isn't perfect and that the intro is probably earrape, forgive me ^^

Enjoy!

Update: my latest (Dragon Bones) video, for seeing my playstyle in action, with 1vX & Smallscale

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHzrnZ9JTj4

Feat. skilled players and normal ones.
Visit my channel for more ^^

Aedaryl

Good video, this a really effective way to play magsorc.

There is something I disagree : at 2.15 you say don't choosing a dk because it have bad mobility (we agreed), and then you say no matter how good you are if you see a zerg comming on a dk you will die and it's something you don't wanna experience, and so it's a good reason to choose sorc. It's false, even on a sorc if a zerg really want to chase and kill you, they will do it, I'm not even speaking about streak couterplay or sprinting + major speed being better, but simply because they can take their mouth with speed and chasing you to death. But we are still agree sorc is a good choice for his kitting gameplay.

I theoricrafted an other set up that's easier than your first set up (amberplasm + shackle + tri stats food one)

It's a nice combinasion that's cheap and good for beginner since it doesn't need to farm anything. This is exaclty same trait, same bonus, same cps.

Ths is more HP and more magicka recovery and more magicka for a spell damage lost and little stam regen lost.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=48333

Nice to see some good sorc explanation, keep doing it !

MalcolM24

@Aedaryl But that would only be the case if cyrodiil is a flat terrain. Assuming the chasers are really fast & use their braincells, and have at least 40 in mount speed, I can only outrun them for a few minutes (using some quick attacks on the horses etc). Mostly this is all that's needed to get to one of those big rocks with tons of los and escape routes. Even if it's a medium sized rock it'll provide enough distraction to use an invis pot and I'll have a good chance of getting out of there.

Yo I never realised trainee doesnt have to be training anymore with that transmute system. Even though you have 500 less unbuffed dmg, the increase in magicka makes the dmg output equal to shackle lich for example. I'm gonna mention this now (with credit, and if you don't mind ofc) because this is equally good as amber shackle and very beginner-friendly ^^ Thanks!

Aedaryl

MalcolM24 wrote: »

@Aedaryl But that would only be the case if cyrodiil is a flat terrain. Assuming the chasers are really fast & use their braincells, and have at least 40 in mount speed, I can only outrun them for a few minutes (using some quick attacks on the horses etc). Mostly this is all that's needed to get to one of those big rocks with tons of los and escape routes. Even if it's a medium sized rock it'll provide enough distraction to use an invis pot and I'll have a good chance of getting out of there.

Yo I never realised trainee doesnt have to be training anymore with that transmute system. Even though you have 500 less unbuffed dmg, the increase in magicka makes the dmg output equal to shackle lich for example. I'm gonna mention this now (with credit, and if you don't mind ofc) because this is equally good as amber shackle and very beginner-friendly ^^ Thanks!

I'm happy to help, you can speak about it whitout problem ^^

There is 3 things I'm wondering: Why streak and not Ball of lightning ? and Why 2 nirn staff and not a back bar infused staff with berzerker glyph and poison on front bar ? How is performing the shield glyph on your destro staff ?

MalcolM24

Aedaryl wrote: »

MalcolM24 wrote: »

@Aedaryl But that would only be the case if cyrodiil is a flat terrain. Assuming the chasers are really fast & use their braincells, and have at least 40 in mount speed, I can only outrun them for a few minutes (using some quick attacks on the horses etc). Mostly this is all that's needed to get to one of those big rocks with tons of los and escape routes. Even if it's a medium sized rock it'll provide enough distraction to use an invis pot and I'll have a good chance of getting out of there.

Yo I never realised trainee doesnt have to be training anymore with that transmute system. Even though you have 500 less unbuffed dmg, the increase in magicka makes the dmg output equal to shackle lich for example. I'm gonna mention this now (with credit, and if you don't mind ofc) because this is equally good as amber shackle and very beginner-friendly ^^ Thanks!

I'm happy to help, you can speak about it whitout problem ^^

There is 3 things I'm wondering: Why streak and not Ball of lightning ? and Why 2 nirn staff and not a back bar infused staff with berzerker glyph and poison on front bar ? How is performing the shield glyph on your destro staff ?

I often do a roll dodge after streak (see 35:20), which is almost the same effect as a ball of lightning (things like meteor still goes through roll ofc). So I don't need ball of lightning to kite. I love that streak is an aoe stun too, it's great for getting away, and can be used offensively, and there aren't many spammable aoe stuns out there.

I always have an infused resto staff.

The berserker glyph is unreliable. Usually when I switch to resto bar it's to cast more than 1 skill, means that I'll do more than 1 light attack and if I switch to the destro bar after that, I only have 3 seconds left of the dmg bonus at best. Average burst takes 4s to pull off, so even if I only cast one light attack on my resto and switch back immediately, the glyph isn't up often when the burst hits. Haven't tried the shield glyph on destro, I want to get as many poison procs as I can, so I want poisons on my destro.

Biro123

Only comment so far (cos I haven't finished watching it yet) - is that its a very long vid. Many people don't want to sit for so long watching one vid - and then they often forget to finish watching as the next thing pops up that grabs their attention. If you do any in future, I'd suggest maybe breaking it up into smaller chunks - maybe 20 mins or so each. :-)

Pijng

Biro123 wrote: »

Only comment so far (cos I haven't finished watching it yet) - is that its a very long vid. Many people don't want to sit for so long watching one vid - and then they often forget to finish watching as the next thing pops up that grabs their attention. If you do any in future, I'd suggest maybe breaking it up into smaller chunks - maybe 20 mins or so each. :-)

On the other hand I've never seen someone talking about long Gilliam's videos c:

incite

Very nice video Malcolm

Subversus

MalcolM24 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

MalcolM24 wrote: »

@Aedaryl But that would only be the case if cyrodiil is a flat terrain. Assuming the chasers are really fast & use their braincells, and have at least 40 in mount speed, I can only outrun them for a few minutes (using some quick attacks on the horses etc). Mostly this is all that's needed to get to one of those big rocks with tons of los and escape routes. Even if it's a medium sized rock it'll provide enough distraction to use an invis pot and I'll have a good chance of getting out of there.

Yo I never realised trainee doesnt have to be training anymore with that transmute system. Even though you have 500 less unbuffed dmg, the increase in magicka makes the dmg output equal to shackle lich for example. I'm gonna mention this now (with credit, and if you don't mind ofc) because this is equally good as amber shackle and very beginner-friendly ^^ Thanks!

I'm happy to help, you can speak about it whitout problem ^^

There is 3 things I'm wondering: Why streak and not Ball of lightning ? and Why 2 nirn staff and not a back bar infused staff with berzerker glyph and poison on front bar ? How is performing the shield glyph on your destro staff ?

I often do a roll dodge after streak (see 35:20), which is almost the same effect as a ball of lightning (things like meteor still goes through roll ofc). So I don't need ball of lightning to kite. I love that streak is an aoe stun too, it's great for getting away, and can be used offensively, and there aren't many spammable aoe stuns out there.

I always have an infused resto staff.

The berserker glyph is unreliable. Usually when I switch to resto bar it's to cast more than 1 skill, means that I'll do more than 1 light attack and if I switch to the destro bar after that, I only have 3 seconds left of the dmg bonus at best. Average burst takes 4s to pull off, so even if I only cast one light attack on my resto and switch back immediately, the glyph isn't up often when the burst hits. Haven't tried the shield glyph on destro, I want to get as many poison procs as I can, so I want poisons on my destro.

What do you think of using curse backbar then (and like streak frontbar)? That way you get to fully take advantage of the infused damage enchant from resto every time you reapply curse. The damage of curse is also apparently exactly the same as if you'd have it on front bar since it calculates the damage based on the bar it explodes on, apparently.

I mean the ultimate question is whether infused dmg enchant beats poisons, and it's probably down to habit too. Like I for one could never play with curse frontbar cause that's how I learned to play msorc hahahaha, would be hard af to adjust.

Joy_Division

Biro123 wrote: »

Only comment so far (cos I haven't finished watching it yet) - is that its a very long vid. Many people don't want to sit for so long watching one vid - and then they often forget to finish watching as the next thing pops up that grabs their attention. If you do any in future, I'd suggest maybe breaking it up into smaller chunks - maybe 20 mins or so each. :-)

That's their loss.

"Many people" are lazy and want everything handed to them without any explanations, any whys and hows, they just want the answer.

Let the many waste hours of their time in Cyrodiil instead getting famed because they don't have a clue how to build, let alone play, a sorc. These are the same people who spend more than 40 minutes wasting everyone's time on these forums creating and advocating "nerf sorc" threads

40 minutes is an investment, and a wise one at that, which people who want to git gud should watch the entire thing and then hit "repeat" because this video is so damn insightful.

I don't think it's a coincidence at all that Gilliam and Malcolm are great players and theory-crafters in that they feel it is critical to give detailed explanations as to why they made the build they did and how it plays.

Subversus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Only comment so far (cos I haven't finished watching it yet) - is that its a very long vid. Many people don't want to sit for so long watching one vid - and then they often forget to finish watching as the next thing pops up that grabs their attention. If you do any in future, I'd suggest maybe breaking it up into smaller chunks - maybe 20 mins or so each. :-)

That's their loss.

"Many people" are lazy and want everything handed to them without any explanations, any whys and hows, they just want the answer.

Let the many waste hours of their time in Cyrodiil instead getting famed because they don't have a clue how to build, let alone play, a sorc. These are the same people who spend more than 40 minutes wasting everyone's time on these forums creating and advocating "nerf sorc" threads

40 minutes is an investment, and a wise one at that, which people who want to git gud should watch the entire thing and then hit "repeat" because this video is so damn insightful.

I don't think it's a coincidence at all that Gilliam and Malcolm are great players and theory-crafters in that they feel it is critical to give detailed explanations as to why they made the build they did and how it plays.

Exactly. I for one very much enjoyed getting a sneak peak into the head of one of the best sorcs in this game. If you want to git gud you have to be able to put in the time (funny, I know, cause this is a video game and all).

Didgerion

Aedaryl wrote: »

Good video, this a really effective way to play magsorc.

There is something I disagree : at 2.15 you say don't choosing a dk because it have bad mobility (we agreed), and then you say no matter how good you are if you see a zerg comming on a dk you will die and it's something you don't wanna experience, and so it's a good reason to choose sorc. It's false, even on a sorc if a zerg really want to chase and kill you, they will do it, I'm not even speaking about streak couterplay or sprinting + major speed being better, but simply because they can take their mouth with speed and chasing you to death. But we are still agree sorc is a good choice for his kitting gameplay.

Streak is still the best magica kitting tool in game. There are not many stamina builds out there that can keep the speed up with streak - and that's the exact purpose of kitting - you isolate the fastest players from the zerg and quickly kill them - then kite and repeat. The think is you have to spot the zerg group early to keep them out of range so you don't get slowed down, rooted or stunned.

But still stamina builds are better at kitting than magica sorc is. So if you want to solo Cirodiil in the most efficient way I'd suggest investing in a Stam NB rather than Mag Sorc.

MalcolM24

Biro123 wrote: »

Only comment so far (cos I haven't finished watching it yet) - is that its a very long vid. Many people don't want to sit for so long watching one vid - and then they often forget to finish watching as the next thing pops up that grabs their attention. If you do any in future, I'd suggest maybe breaking it up into smaller chunks - maybe 20 mins or so each. :-)

I get you, splitting the video up might pull more views or longer view times, but I found it more .. usefull to make one, semi complete guide and get it over with then ^^ It's (ironically) more simple that way I think. And as said by @Joy_Division I wanted to make something else than a 10 min vid saying I run shackle lich, because giving someone a thought process is more effective than simply giving a combination of sets & skills.

@Subversus yeh that's a legit way to run it ^^ It comes down to preference I guess .. I would 100% take that escapists poison over any enchant, but I realise putting curse on backbar would allow the dmg enchant there. Shield enchant is pretty good too though. The only thing curse 'carries' to the other bars from it's initial cast is the penetration. So since everyone runs infused or nirn now curse can be put on either bar without any dmg loss.

Lexxypwns

Didgerion wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Good video, this a really effective way to play magsorc.

There is something I disagree : at 2.15 you say don't choosing a dk because it have bad mobility (we agreed), and then you say no matter how good you are if you see a zerg comming on a dk you will die and it's something you don't wanna experience, and so it's a good reason to choose sorc. It's false, even on a sorc if a zerg really want to chase and kill you, they will do it, I'm not even speaking about streak couterplay or sprinting + major speed being better, but simply because they can take their mouth with speed and chasing you to death. But we are still agree sorc is a good choice for his kitting gameplay.

Streak is still the best magica kitting tool in game. There are not many stamina builds out there that can keep the speed up with streak - and that's the exact purpose of kitting - you isolate the fastest players from the zerg and quickly kill them - then kite and repeat. The think is you have to spot the zerg group early to keep them out of range so you don't get slowed down, rooted or stunned.

But still stamina builds are better at kitting than magica sorc is. So if you want to solo Cirodiil in the most efficient way I'd suggest investing in a Stam NB rather than Mag Sorc.

Shadow image+cloak is superior to streak.

@MalcolM24 phenomenal video, great work

bardx86

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

Minalan

Great video!

You only forgot one important thing about playing a great 1vX powerful spell caster in ESO: Re-roll magblade.

I agree with most of what you posted, except that I prefer a build more on the ‘middle’ of the slider. Mostly because it’s no fun to get one-shot ganked leaving a keep or riding horseback because no Impen.

Emma_Overload

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

Lord-Otto

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

No penetration would help sorcs. It's the lousy damage coefficients with exorbitant costs on sorc skills. You know something's not right when your Frag crits a magblade for 7k, while you eat 13k from a Spectral Bow.
(-_-)

MalcolM24

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

Aye, but it's the best setup for 90% of the players I encounter tbh. I barely 'lose' clips because I couldn't kill someone. In the commentary clip the dk takes about a min or 2 to go down in the end but I don't feel like I need extra dmg for that. After all I killed the others so I can chill.

Sorc just doesn't have much damage. If I were to go with dmg sets I would lose too much sustain, and I'd have to adapt to a 'hit and run' playstyle. But then I could aswell go stamblade because they're 10 times better at that.

In general if I'd want to counter heavy armor & defensive players I go with rune cage and crushing shock, and more dueling oriented setups (perhaps with ele drain). But that doesn't work as well in most 1vx fights.

Joy_Division

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

I think perspectives like this are falling into the trap of sexy damage numbers. I don't doubt your build hits harder. Mine does too. But "much" harder? Let's not exaggerate here. Let's be generous and say your Crystal Frag tooltip is 1500 higher. Battlespirit immediately cuts that to 750. CP + resitance + miam/protection + other stuff is going to cut that down to maybe 400. Maybe.

I have 25K health...how exactly does 400 constitute "much" higher damage than Malcom's build?

Malcom has given up that 400 damage and has 18K stamina and a build that makes it such he never has to come onto these forums and complain how shields, streak, sorc kiting has been overnerfed.

The other thing to consider is that damage is only good if it lands on target. Because Malcom's build enables him to dodge roll like a stam player, he spends much less time attending to his own defensive needs and more time actually putting his spells on target, which probably translates into higher combat DPS Vs. threatening targets than those players who'd parse higher on a target dummy.

If I was the type of person to send tells and denigrate other players for the sake of my ego, then I would whisper you and tell you your build hit like Charmin because that helps resolve any insecurities about my own build, it makes you feel bad and I'm the type of person who for whatever reason gets jollies about that, and, most importantly, I sow a lack of confidence you have about your own build, which thus might help me in a future encounter (if I bumped into you regularly in IC sewers for instance, it might be psychologically advantageous)

Biro123

Always been a big fan of well-fitted for sorcs - and have generally ignored most forum advice on using impen. (although I do tend to have some CP points spent on it!)

I've found 3 very different ways to survive - (not counting the obvious mobility/los) all with their pro's and cons..

1. Protecting the shields - Stuff like minor/minor protection/main and avoidance
2. Surviving shields dropping - resist buffs, impen, health, heals
3. Bigger shields. The bigger the shield, the longer uptime on it. And there's some odd scaling that happens at really high mag values (typically DW).

I've used builds doing all of the above(and several combinations of them) , and even for my option 2 builds - they have always used some impen and plenty of stam (though not as much as Malcolm's!). Dodge is just soo good at protecting shields.

Personally I prefer number 3. Not because its the most effective, I just enjoy it more! Yes, I'm a sucker for big numbers too..

Minalan

Biro123 wrote: »

Always been a big fan of well-fitted for sorcs - and have generally ignored most forum advice on using impen. (although I do tend to have some CP points spent on it!)

I've found 3 very different ways to survive - (not counting the obvious mobility/los) all with their pro's and cons..

1. Protecting the shields - Stuff like minor/minor protection/main and avoidance
2. Surviving shields dropping - resist buffs, impen, health, heals
3. Bigger shields. The bigger the shield, the longer uptime on it. And there's some odd scaling that happens at really high mag values (typically DW).

I've used builds doing all of the above(and several combinations of them) , and even for my option 2 builds - they have always used some impen and plenty of stam (though not as much as Malcolm's!). Dodge is just soo good at protecting shields.

Personally I prefer number 3. Not because its the most effective, I just enjoy it more! Yes, I'm a sucker for big numbers too..

Malcolm is EU, and (according to a few people I’ve heard from) gank players just aren’t as prolific there. Sure they have them, but it’s not every other player like here. On NA, you can expect multiple teams of two or three working together between any two busy objectives or outside any keep door.

I tried well-fitted a couple of weeks ago and it did not fare well for said reasons.

MalcolM24

Minalan wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Always been a big fan of well-fitted for sorcs - and have generally ignored most forum advice on using impen. (although I do tend to have some CP points spent on it!)

I've found 3 very different ways to survive - (not counting the obvious mobility/los) all with their pro's and cons..

1. Protecting the shields - Stuff like minor/minor protection/main and avoidance
2. Surviving shields dropping - resist buffs, impen, health, heals
3. Bigger shields. The bigger the shield, the longer uptime on it. And there's some odd scaling that happens at really high mag values (typically DW).

I've used builds doing all of the above(and several combinations of them) , and even for my option 2 builds - they have always used some impen and plenty of stam (though not as much as Malcolm's!). Dodge is just soo good at protecting shields.

Personally I prefer number 3. Not because its the most effective, I just enjoy it more! Yes, I'm a sucker for big numbers too..

Malcolm is EU, and (according to a few people I’ve heard from) gank players just aren’t as prolific there. Sure they have them, but it’s not every other player like here. On NA, you can expect multiple teams of two or three working together between any two busy objectives or outside any keep door.

I tried well-fitted a couple of weeks ago and it did not fare well for said reasons.

Can confirm I barely encounter gank groups. If it does happen game audio helps me out somewhat but ye.

Solo gankers often need more than one attack even though I have no health defense. I guess good players don't gank here but idk.

@Joy_Division I like your explanation more than mine lmao

Didgerion

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Good video, this a really effective way to play magsorc.

There is something I disagree : at 2.15 you say don't choosing a dk because it have bad mobility (we agreed), and then you say no matter how good you are if you see a zerg comming on a dk you will die and it's something you don't wanna experience, and so it's a good reason to choose sorc. It's false, even on a sorc if a zerg really want to chase and kill you, they will do it, I'm not even speaking about streak couterplay or sprinting + major speed being better, but simply because they can take their mouth with speed and chasing you to death. But we are still agree sorc is a good choice for his kitting gameplay.

Streak is still the best magica kitting tool in game. There are not many stamina builds out there that can keep the speed up with streak - and that's the exact purpose of kitting - you isolate the fastest players from the zerg and quickly kill them - then kite and repeat. The think is you have to spot the zerg group early to keep them out of range so you don't get slowed down, rooted or stunned.

But still stamina builds are better at kitting than magica sorc is. So if you want to solo Cirodiil in the most efficient way I'd suggest investing in a Stam NB rather than Mag Sorc.

Shadow image+cloak is superior to streak.

@MalcolM24 phenomenal video, great work

Depends what your goal is.

Streak is better at kitting.
Cloak + Shadow Image is better at escaping.

BohnT

Didgerion wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Good video, this a really effective way to play magsorc.

There is something I disagree : at 2.15 you say don't choosing a dk because it have bad mobility (we agreed), and then you say no matter how good you are if you see a zerg comming on a dk you will die and it's something you don't wanna experience, and so it's a good reason to choose sorc. It's false, even on a sorc if a zerg really want to chase and kill you, they will do it, I'm not even speaking about streak couterplay or sprinting + major speed being better, but simply because they can take their mouth with speed and chasing you to death. But we are still agree sorc is a good choice for his kitting gameplay.

Streak is still the best magica kitting tool in game. There are not many stamina builds out there that can keep the speed up with streak - and that's the exact purpose of kitting - you isolate the fastest players from the zerg and quickly kill them - then kite and repeat. The think is you have to spot the zerg group early to keep them out of range so you don't get slowed down, rooted or stunned.

But still stamina builds are better at kitting than magica sorc is. So if you want to solo Cirodiil in the most efficient way I'd suggest investing in a Stam NB rather than Mag Sorc.

Shadow image+cloak is superior to streak.

@MalcolM24 phenomenal video, great work

Depends what your goal is.

Streak is better at kitting.
Cloak + Shadow Image is better at escaping.

I'd say cloak and shade give you better in fight kiting while streak gives you better "taunt kiting". Cloak gives you LOS whenever you want it when used right and shade gives you more possible mobility than any other skill in the game.

Streak can work better for escaping as it puts a physical distance between you and your enemy that they can't break while running away with cloak can be completely negated with things like mark, mage light etc.

NoFlash

Thank you for this!

Skoomah

Give them nothing. Take from them... EVERYTHING!!!

MalcolM24

Skoomah wrote: »

Give them nothing. Take from them... EVERYTHING!!!

Exactly x) Aight thanks for the nice comments guys, both in this thread and the one I made earlier ^^ I'll make another gameplay video in a few days and update this thread with it, so it becomes both theory and practice.

If you liked the type of 'commentary fights' I gave at the end, do tell, otherwise I'll probably keep the talking restricted to guides etc. Thanks again for the support!

MalcolM24

Updated with new gameplay!

Minalan

Joy_Division wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

I think perspectives like this are falling into the trap of sexy damage numbers. I don't doubt your build hits harder. Mine does too. But "much" harder? Let's not exaggerate here. Let's be generous and say your Crystal Frag tooltip is 1500 higher. Battlespirit immediately cuts that to 750. CP + resitance + miam/protection + other stuff is going to cut that down to maybe 400. Maybe.

I have 25K health...how exactly does 400 constitute "much" higher damage than Malcom's build?

Malcom has given up that 400 damage and has 18K stamina and a build that makes it such he never has to come onto these forums and complain how shields, streak, sorc kiting has been overnerfed.

The other thing to consider is that damage is only good if it lands on target. Because Malcom's build enables him to dodge roll like a stam player, he spends much less time attending to his own defensive needs and more time actually putting his spells on target, which probably translates into higher combat DPS Vs. threatening targets than those players who'd parse higher on a target dummy.

If I was the type of person to send tells and denigrate other players for the sake of my ego, then I would whisper you and tell you your build hit like Charmin because that helps resolve any insecurities about my own build, it makes you feel bad and I'm the type of person who for whatever reason gets jollies about that, and, most importantly, I sow a lack of confidence you have about your own build, which thus might help me in a future encounter (if I bumped into you regularly in IC sewers for instance, it might be psychologically advantageous)

I’d like to highlight this again for anyone paying attention. This is how you go from ‘mindless Zerg baddie Sorc’ to the guy who’s playing solo and running the bounty boards dry every day.

@Malamar1229 had to drill this into me with a brick. I’m hard headed, stupid, and didn’t see why I should give up 500 DPS and 400 or so shields for almost 19K stamina. “Dude shut up and try it”. I did.

Good lord, with 19K stamina you can run like a track star just using boundless storm, mobility is everything. You can dodge roll like a spider monkey, you can block multiple meteors and soul assault and not worry anymore. You can hide and run around forever. With an escape pot, you’re basically gone, and the Zerg can’t catch you. You can break free almost indefinitely, and dodge roll cancel a shield right out of it. You can survive multiple opponents way longer than you should. The Sorcs crying and moaning about snipe? They don’t have 19K stamina and dodge roll hot-keyed to a mouse thumb button click. You can dark exchange until you’re sick of pressing the button. It’s a different game.

Derra

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

MalcoLM24,

Great video, excellent play. In my experience however, this build wouldn't be very effective except vs potatoes. One rotation vs most folk I come across in PVP this build wouldn't even dent them. Also, these folks don't even seem to heal that much. That being said i do like the dark conversion idea and the well fitted. Might have to try that. What do you do against players with high mitigation? I feel like this build you would struggle.

I agree with this. My current Spinner based magsorc build hits much harder than Malcolm's build, but it's not strong enough to kill many CP720 heavy armor builds. Guys who killed me have actually whispered me a couple times in the last year to tell me how freakin' weak my build hits, even though I know for a fact it hits harder than most "famous" builds (except for overload/gank builds).

This heavy armor dominated era sucks!

I think perspectives like this are falling into the trap of sexy damage numbers. I don't doubt your build hits harder. Mine does too. But "much" harder? Let's not exaggerate here. Let's be generous and say your Crystal Frag tooltip is 1500 higher. Battlespirit immediately cuts that to 750. CP + resitance + miam/protection + other stuff is going to cut that down to maybe 400. Maybe.

I have 25K health...how exactly does 400 constitute "much" higher damage than Malcom's build?

Malcom has given up that 400 damage and has 18K stamina and a build that makes it such he never has to come onto these forums and complain how shields, streak, sorc kiting has been overnerfed.

The other thing to consider is that damage is only good if it lands on target. Because Malcom's build enables him to dodge roll like a stam player, he spends much less time attending to his own defensive needs and more time actually putting his spells on target, which probably translates into higher combat DPS Vs. threatening targets than those players who'd parse higher on a target dummy.

If I was the type of person to send tells and denigrate other players for the sake of my ego, then I would whisper you and tell you your build hit like Charmin because that helps resolve any insecurities about my own build, it makes you feel bad and I'm the type of person who for whatever reason gets jollies about that, and, most importantly, I sow a lack of confidence you have about your own build, which thus might help me in a future encounter (if I bumped into you regularly in IC sewers for instance, it might be psychologically advantageous)

I’d like to highlight this again for anyone paying attention. This is how you go from ‘mindless Zerg baddie Sorc’ to the guy who’s playing solo and running the bounty boards dry every day.

@Malamar1229 had to drill this into me with a brick. I’m hard headed, stupid, and didn’t see why I should give up 500 DPS and 400 or so shields for almost 19K stamina. “Dude shut up and try it”. I did.

Good lord, with 19K stamina you can run like a track star just using boundless storm, mobility is everything. You can dodge roll like a spider monkey, you can block multiple meteors and soul assault and not worry anymore. You can hide and run around forever. With an escape pot, you’re basically gone, and the Zerg can’t catch you. You can break free almost indefinitely, and dodge roll cancel a shield right out of it. You can survive multiple opponents way longer than you should. The Sorcs crying and moaning about snipe? They don’t have 19K stamina and dodge roll hot-keyed to a mouse thumb button click. You can dark exchange until you’re sick of pressing the button. It’s a different game.

The main problem for sorc currently is that the classes infight sustain is garbage compared to other magica specs except for maybe templar (depending on morphs here) against non magica opponents (or without harness).

It makes having a somewhat sustainable dmg build much harder to sustain due to the nature of shields being proactive instead of reactive (iE you have fixed costs + gcd for defense regardless if your opponent pressures you or nah).

Then sustain builds just do not hit much less than pure dmg builds. A very heavily sustain focused setup will have CF tooltips between 13 to 14k unbuffed.
A heavy dmg build will see 14 to 15.5k unbuffed. So if we´re being generous and go with the 10% tooltip difference that usually comes at the cost of 20 to 30% magica AND stamina recovery. That tradeoff just isn´t worth it for 95% of the situations you´d find yourself in when soloing.

Then we also have the issue that runecage is just a terrible spell all around except for outnumbering opponents because it reduces number of offensive cooldowns used in the sorcs relatively short burst window.
You can´t hit a full burst with runecage so it´s imo subpar to reach in every way except for allies dmging your target aswell.