Apply streak treatment to vigor?

starkerealm · March 2018

No nerf

Caitsith wrote: »

From my experience, I've never seen anybody heal to full health (with how much health missing?) with vigor only and instantly.

On a stam DPS build, in PvE, it should heal you from about 85% to full in one tick.

Wrubius_Coronaria · March 2018

No nerf

starkerealm wrote: »

On a stam DPS build, in PvE, it should heal you from about 85% to full in one tick.

Interesting, (I play mainly pvp). Buffed while in a group, solo? I'm curious to know.

And I should have specified what I said was from a pvp perspective. With the 50% heal reduction from battle spirit, it's not possible as far as I know.

SGT_Wolfe101st · March 2018

No nerf

It is literally the only on demand heal that my Stam NB has all others are a mechanic of a damage ability, once again this has to be coming from someone purely focused on PVP. Or did the trial monsters tell you it was unfair that a character was able to heal themselves?

LiquidPony · March 2018

No nerf

Mureel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Assuming this is about pvp.

Biased poll is biased. "There's no reason anyone who isn't a healer need such an OP self heal"

Shoutout to all those stam healers out there. Y'all the real mvps.

Stacking vigors might be op, but thats not what you're talking about here. On that note, the point is just as easily made that it requires good teamwork. Also stscking rapid regen is probably more effective because it allows more freedom of maneuver.

What happened? Vigor stop you from killing someone? There's something called defile you know. Its super effective!

You assume incorrectly.

*Everyone* can kill me in PVP xD

I simply think vigor is OP - no matter how much I personally am grateful for it at times.

Well, if you're relying on Vigor to keep you alive, no wonder you're annoyed with it. But, yeah, as others have pointed out, Vigor isn't spammable as it exists now. Sure, you can double or triple cast it, but that does nothing except extend the duration.

Smh. This is why it's nearly pointless to talk on forum - people missing the point so hard that we need to nerf roll dodge.

If you don't have a class heal it's basically an offheal, so then you shouldn't be able to one click = full health.

Or: make a Stam and Mag morph then. So everyone can click once and have full health.

*Not about pvp so stop arguing like I got heat and am here over that* because I don't pvp as such, so this is not related to that.

Smh.

The problem is that your "nerf Vigor" concept is all based on fake news.

It is not a one-tap to full health.

It is not stackable.

It does not obviate the need for healers.

And pretty much every magicka build *already* has a strong heal built into their class. Magblades have Funnel Health/Swallow Soul and Sap Essence. Magsorcs have Dark Conversion and the Twilight Matriarch. Magplars and Magwardens are self explanatory and packed with powerful healing skills. MagDKs are probably the worst off but still have Green Dragon Blood and a variety of other healing mechanism. And of course any magicka toon can use Degeneration or Blood Altar or (gasp) slot a resto staff. And, of course, shields.

So beyond the fact that I think a nerf is unnecessary, considering the skill just got a significant nerf in Morrowind, I think all of your reasoning behind suggesting a nerf is based on completely incorrect information.

SGT_Wolfe101st · March 2018

No nerf

Mureel wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

...It's the only reasonable heal some classes can get, (ie. NB's)

Except it's too strong imo. I didn't say remove it, I said limit it so it's not spammable.

Its not spammable, you pop Vigor a couple times and throw in a couple blocks and/or dodge rolls and 35K stam is gone in a flash.

Thogard · March 2018

No nerf

I don't know if i should be amused or horrified that 95% of this thread doesn't understand what "stacking vigor" means.

Stania · March 2018

No nerf

It's like asking to nerf blocking on weapons except S&B so the tanks don't feel invalidated.

coop500 · March 2018

No nerf

Thogard wrote: »

I don't know if i should be amused or horrified that 95% of this thread doesn't understand what "stacking vigor" means.

Enlighten us~

Sixty5 · March 2018

No nerf

There are two non-class stamina abilities that heal you without requiring a target.,

Vigor and Rally

Magicka on the other hand has an entire skill line dedicated to healing, so get that rubbish about not being fair to magicka builds out of here.

Plus Vigor is a moderately strong heal over time with a pretty hefty stamina cost.

Want to know why you never see Stamina Healers in dungeons? Because Vigor is trash compared to magicka heals.
Why is it used then? Because it's the best stam builds have.

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

Sure, right after shields get affected by defiles and also get streak treatment too.

Dyride · March 2018

No nerf

coop500 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I don't know if i should be amused or horrified that 95% of this thread doesn't understand what "stacking vigor" means.

Enlighten us~

Vigors from multiple players "stack" and each heal ticks independently. So players A, B, and C can have 3 vigors going if they stay together while casting.

This is the main reason why a small group of stamina players can survive so well if they move together and overlap their heals.

Mureel · March 2018

Streak treatment on vigor

I don't know what it takes to establish that I'm making a poll.

I'm trying to see what people think.

I've said no less than 5x that it's not about pvp and also I've gone out of my way to avoid bias.

I don't understand why people cannot reply in a sensible and reasoned manner.

I knew from the start it would be salt salt whiny cry and yet....

Why can't you just answer and move on?

Why do so many people need to be rude/salty?

Just vote and move on.

I explained from the start that I was glad vigor is how it is, but you miss all that to throw a spaz.

Just vote and move on and stop inferring shite where there isn't any.

Mureel · March 2018

Streak treatment on vigor

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

...It's the only reasonable heal some classes can get, (ie. NB's)

Except it's too strong imo. I didn't say remove it, I said limit it so it's not spammable.

Its not spammable, you pop Vigor a couple times and throw in a couple blocks and/or dodge rolls and 35K stam is gone in a flash.

Um, bull. It so is spammable.

Mureel · March 2018

Streak treatment on vigor

LiquidPony wrote: »

[iquote="Mureel;c-4908211"]

starkerealm wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Assuming this is about pvp.

Biased poll is biased. "There's no reason anyone who isn't a healer need such an OP self heal"

Shoutout to all those stam healers out there. Y'all the real mvps.

Stacking vigors might be op, but thats not what you're talking about here. On that note, the point is just as easily made that it requires good teamwork. Also stscking rapid regen is probably more effective because it allows more freedom of maneuver.

What happened? Vigor stop you from killing someone? There's something called defile you know. Its super effective!

You assume incorrectly.

*Everyone* can kill me in PVP xD

I simply think vigor is OP - no matter how much I personally am grateful for it at times.

Well, if you're relying on Vigor to keep you alive, no wonder you're annoyed with it. But, yeah, as others have pointed out, Vigor isn't spammable as it exists now. Sure, you can double or triple cast it, but that does nothing except extend the duration.

Smh. This is why it's nearly pointless to talk on forum - people missing the point so hard that we need to nerf roll dodge.

If you don't have a class heal it's basically an offheal, so then you shouldn't be able to one click = full health.

Or: make a Stam and Mag morph then. So everyone can click once and have full health.

*Not about pvp so stop arguing like I got heat and am here over that* because I don't pvp as such, so this is not related to that.

Smh.

The problem is that your "nerf Vigor" concept is all based on fake news.

It is not a one-tap to full health.

It is not stackable.

It does not obviate the need for healers.

And pretty much every magicka build *already* has a strong heal built into their class. Magblades have Funnel Health/Swallow Soul and Sap Essence. Magsorcs have Dark Conversion and the Twilight Matriarch. Magplars and Magwardens are self explanatory and packed with powerful healing skills. MagDKs are probably the worst off but still have Green Dragon Blood and a variety of other healing mechanism. And of course any magicka toon can use Degeneration or Blood Altar or (gasp) slot a resto staff. And, of course, shields.

So beyond the fact that I think a nerf is unnecessary, considering the skill just got a significant nerf in Morrowind, I think all of your reasoning behind suggesting a nerf is based on completely incorrect information.

Biased poll would not include no nerf option as first choice - so no.

To the rest, also no because I've literally had people tell me that their vigor out heals all of my heals (magplar healer) so yeah.

Again- no bias exists in a poll which has a no nerf option as first option.

Stop the hyperbole.

coop500 · March 2018

No nerf

Dyride wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I don't know if i should be amused or horrified that 95% of this thread doesn't understand what "stacking vigor" means.

Enlighten us~

Vigors from multiple players "stack" and each heal ticks independently. So players A, B, and C can have 3 vigors going if they stay together while casting.

This is the main reason why a small group of stamina players can survive so well if they move together and overlap their heals.

I see, but it still requires groups to work.

A lot of people's concerns come from solo play being harder if there's a nerf that isn't properly thought out.

LonePirate · March 2018

Streak treatment on vigor

Vigor needs to be nerfed in Cyrodiil at a minimum, especially with the removal of AOE caps. There is no reason it should rival or surpass heals from Templars or Wardens but it does. Stamina already does more damage than Magicka in Cyrodiil. It shouldn’t out- heal Magicka as well.

rustic_potato · March 2018

No nerf

Wow looks like OP got creamed by a bunch of stamina folks in cyro. Here is an idea why not remove all self heals from the game and have only heals from resto staff. Sounds stupid right? That is similar to what you are suggesting. L2P please.

D0PAMINE · March 2018

No nerf

Mureel wrote: »

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Assuming this is about pvp.

Biased poll is biased. "There's no reason anyone who isn't a healer need such an OP self heal"

Shoutout to all those stam healers out there. Y'all the real mvps.

Stacking vigors might be op, but thats not what you're talking about here. On that note, the point is just as easily made that it requires good teamwork. Also stscking rapid regen is probably more effective because it allows more freedom of maneuver.

What happened? Vigor stop you from killing someone? There's something called defile you know. Its super effective!

You assume incorrectly.

*Everyone* can kill me in PVP xD

I simply think vigor is OP - no matter how much I personally am grateful for it at times.

I kill people after they waste their stamina spamming vigor. Doesnt need a nerf and isnt OP. Stamplars can cast BoL and thats an insta full heal.

Izaki · March 2018

No nerf

4/10 Troll

JobooAGS · March 2018

No nerf

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Assuming this is about pvp.

Biased poll is biased. "There's no reason anyone who isn't a healer need such an OP self heal"

Shoutout to all those stam healers out there. Y'all the real mvps.

Stacking vigors might be op, but thats not what you're talking about here. On that note, the point is just as easily made that it requires good teamwork. Also stscking rapid regen is probably more effective because it allows more freedom of maneuver.

What happened? Vigor stop you from killing someone? There's something called defile you know. Its super effective!

You assume incorrectly.

*Everyone* can kill me in PVP xD

I simply think vigor is OP - no matter how much I personally am grateful for it at times.

I kill people after they waste their stamina spamming vigor. Doesnt need a nerf and isnt OP. Stamplars can cast BoL and thats an insta full heal.

Stamplar and bol??!!

Thogard · March 2018

No nerf

Dyride wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I don't know if i should be amused or horrified that 95% of this thread doesn't understand what "stacking vigor" means.

Enlighten us~

Vigors from multiple players "stack" and each heal ticks independently. So players A, B, and C can have 3 vigors going if they stay together while casting.

This is the main reason why a small group of stamina players can survive so well if they move together and overlap their heals.

bingo

Sixty5 · March 2018

No nerf

Mureel wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

[iquote="Mureel;c-4908211"]

starkerealm wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Assuming this is about pvp.

Biased poll is biased. "There's no reason anyone who isn't a healer need such an OP self heal"

Shoutout to all those stam healers out there. Y'all the real mvps.

Stacking vigors might be op, but thats not what you're talking about here. On that note, the point is just as easily made that it requires good teamwork. Also stscking rapid regen is probably more effective because it allows more freedom of maneuver.

What happened? Vigor stop you from killing someone? There's something called defile you know. Its super effective!

You assume incorrectly.

*Everyone* can kill me in PVP xD

I simply think vigor is OP - no matter how much I personally am grateful for it at times.

Well, if you're relying on Vigor to keep you alive, no wonder you're annoyed with it. But, yeah, as others have pointed out, Vigor isn't spammable as it exists now. Sure, you can double or triple cast it, but that does nothing except extend the duration.

Smh. This is why it's nearly pointless to talk on forum - people missing the point so hard that we need to nerf roll dodge.

If you don't have a class heal it's basically an offheal, so then you shouldn't be able to one click = full health.

Or: make a Stam and Mag morph then. So everyone can click once and have full health.

*Not about pvp so stop arguing like I got heat and am here over that* because I don't pvp as such, so this is not related to that.

Smh.

The problem is that your "nerf Vigor" concept is all based on fake news.

It is not a one-tap to full health.

It is not stackable.

It does not obviate the need for healers.

And pretty much every magicka build *already* has a strong heal built into their class. Magblades have Funnel Health/Swallow Soul and Sap Essence. Magsorcs have Dark Conversion and the Twilight Matriarch. Magplars and Magwardens are self explanatory and packed with powerful healing skills. MagDKs are probably the worst off but still have Green Dragon Blood and a variety of other healing mechanism. And of course any magicka toon can use Degeneration or Blood Altar or (gasp) slot a resto staff. And, of course, shields.

So beyond the fact that I think a nerf is unnecessary, considering the skill just got a significant nerf in Morrowind, I think all of your reasoning behind suggesting a nerf is based on completely incorrect information.

Biased poll would not include no nerf option as first choice - so no.

To the rest, also no because I've literally had people tell me that their vigor out heals all of my heals (magplar healer) so yeah.

Again- no bias exists in a poll which has a no nerf option as first option.

Stop the hyperbole.

In PVE Surge + Blood Craze does a better job of keeping topped up than most healers.

That's because in a lot of PVE content a healer is actually pretty irrelevant, once the rest of the group passes a certain skill threshold.

Thogard · March 2018

No nerf

Mureel wrote: »

I don't know what it takes to establish that I'm making a poll.

I'm trying to see what people think.

I've said no less than 5x that it's not about pvp and also I've gone out of my way to avoid bias.

I don't understand why people cannot reply in a sensible and reasoned manner.

I knew from the start it would be salt salt whiny cry and yet....

Why can't you just answer and move on?

Why do so many people need to be rude/salty?

Just vote and move on.

I explained from the start that I was glad vigor is how it is, but you miss all that to throw a spaz.

Just vote and move on and stop inferring shite where there isn't any.

You need to understand that every poster on these boards has an agenda. When you make a poll, you need to give each of them an option that makes them feel understood. Saying "don't nerf" doesn't work.. you need to offer up a sacrificial lamb.

to avoid the flaming, you should have phrased the poll like this:

"Which of these deserves the "streak" treatment the most?"
1. Vanish
2. Block
3. Vigor
4. Sprint
5. Damage shields

Do you see how there's something in those poll options for every player type to hate? You're giving everyone an option to agree with you.

Whereas if i were to make a poll:

"Is OP a bad forum poster?
1. Yes
2. No

You can see how that might bug you... it's specifically targetting you. You'd get upset, and I'd say "Hey it's just a poll! you can vote no!" but obviously i had an agenda on my mind when i made the poll.

Aliyavana · March 2018

Streak treatment on vigor

I voted wrong but Stam doesn't have shields

ofSunhold · March 2018

No nerf

Vigor is the reason stam builds can still play in small groups, or solo.

No nerf.

Separate issue: nothing should ever ever ever get "the streak treatment" again. Terrible way to balance abilities.

ofSunhold · March 2018

No nerf

Mureel wrote: »

I don't know what it takes to establish that I'm making a poll.

I'm trying to see what people think.

I've said no less than 5x that it's not about pvp and also I've gone out of my way to avoid bias.

Everything is about PVP.

Kalante · March 2018

No nerf

What a joke this thread is please lock

Ankael07 · March 2018

No nerf

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sure, right after shields get affected by defiles and also get streak treatment too.

Dont be that guy

D0PAMINE · March 2018

No nerf

JobooAGS wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Assuming this is about pvp.

Biased poll is biased. "There's no reason anyone who isn't a healer need such an OP self heal"

Shoutout to all those stam healers out there. Y'all the real mvps.

Stacking vigors might be op, but thats not what you're talking about here. On that note, the point is just as easily made that it requires good teamwork. Also stscking rapid regen is probably more effective because it allows more freedom of maneuver.

What happened? Vigor stop you from killing someone? There's something called defile you know. Its super effective!

You assume incorrectly.

*Everyone* can kill me in PVP xD

I simply think vigor is OP - no matter how much I personally am grateful for it at times.

I kill people after they waste their stamina spamming vigor. Doesnt need a nerf and isnt OP. Stamplars can cast BoL and thats an insta full heal.

Stamplar and bol??!!

Yep. I have healed vet dungeons on a Stamplar cause I was too lazy to swap.

Wreuntzylla · March 2018

Solariken wrote: »

Vigor is mostly fine as it stands, but a problem does exist in the scaling. It's kinda silly that when you stack weapon damage/stamina to the moon you get huge damage AND huge healing. This is insane game design - you should have to make a choice for stacking damage OR healing power (or a mixture of both). The 2-for-1 deal you get in ESO is just irresponsible design.

Yes. Applies to any defensive mechanic that scales off a primary stat.

starkerealm wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Decrease the amount healed but also decrease the cost proportionally. I wouldn't call it a nerf though, more a re-balancing.

Ok I can see that. That seems fair.

It's just a non heal class healed to full health in 3 taps is a bit over the top.

Three taps? One tap if you spec right... I agree that for PvP, defile is the counter, but there are threads on this board asking for a defile nerf. Both sides should meet in the middle and not have ZoS sledgehammer the two....

And you rather make my point.

How should an Off heal thing be a one tap to full health?

You argue for no balance but you basically outline why it should be!

Over five seconds. You've got time to catch up and turn them into chunky salsa if you keep the pressure on.
...

Except that smart players combine it with a couple dodge rolls. Of course, you can also cast it cheap like after break free. Even so, vigor has never kept me from putting someone in the dirt.

My only real gripe in PvP right now is that dodged skills still consume stamina. Its fine for someone to have a 100% damage reduction if it reduces their resource pool, it's not fine when it also reduces your opponent's resource pool. Now I have to solo in regen gear and fights last 2x longer, which means that your almost sure to get adds.