Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? Should we be able to buy them?

AlienatedGoat · March 2018

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

@Phage stop trolling? people come here and demand buyable XP...you think ZoS wont provide? Blizzard said they will never do it...and they did it...I think its also a matter of time until ZoS will do it as well... and I don't need to buy a thing since im capped...

Nobody is demanding anything at all, least of all buyable XP. Even if ZOS did enact a "buy CP" option, they would make it prohibitively expensive, just like they do with everything else. It would help nobody but the whales and ZOS. Actually, just ZOS.

MrsPink · March 2018

Just NO.

Shawnwizzle · March 2018

All of those players you see at 720 warned it. They've invested A lot of time and effort to get there, if I was one of them and not sitting at 310 like I am, this post would probably puss me off. I personally quit worrying about what level I was once I hit 160, but I do enjoy seeing my character get stronger and stronger everyday and would not ever consider buying levels if they were available.

JungleBoot · March 2018

As much as I would love to catch up faster, I would never buy a "CP 720" token or some such item. I've reached CP 425 and I'm not sure I will hit CP 500. I feel completely left behind and don't think there is a real way for me to "catch up" short of playing 24 / 7 for 6mos to a year. That just isn't going to happen. Besides, there is just too much grinding in this game and it is sapping the fun out of it. You try to get gear for your character and wind up spending 2 to 3 days doing the same activity over and over. It's ***. Doesn't mean I don't like the game. I just recognize the futile nature of trying to get caught with player who have been going at it since day one.

Before you reply, I play solo mostly.

Knowledge · March 2018

JungleBoot wrote: »

As much as I would love to catch up faster, I would never buy a "CP 720" token or some such item. I've reached CP 425 and I'm not sure I will hit CP 500. I feel completely left behind and don't think there is a real way for me to "catch up" short of playing 24 / 7 for 6mos to a year. That just isn't going to happen. Besides, there is just too much grinding in this game and it is sapping the fun out of it. You try to get gear for your character and wind up spending 2 to 3 days doing the same activity over and over. It's ***. Doesn't mean I don't like the game. I just recognize the futile nature of trying to get caught with player who have been going at it since day one.

Before you reply, I play solo mostly.

This is exactly the problem I want this game to deal with! I don't want players like your self to leave the game because you feel unwanted or unable to catch up to people with large time investments. This has historically made MMORPGs "top-heavy" and only populated by elitists. They then die a slow death.

Once all of the casual players leave that are fed up grinding their way toward relevancy there will be no one left to make this community, well, a real community.

SilverIce58 · March 2018

JungleBoot wrote: »

As much as I would love to catch up faster, I would never buy a "CP 720" token or some such item. I've reached CP 425 and I'm not sure I will hit CP 500. I feel completely left behind and don't think there is a real way for me to "catch up" short of playing 24 / 7 for 6mos to a year. That just isn't going to happen. Besides, there is just too much grinding in this game and it is sapping the fun out of it. You try to get gear for your character and wind up spending 2 to 3 days doing the same activity over and over. It's ***. Doesn't mean I don't like the game. I just recognize the futile nature of trying to get caught with player who have been going at it since day one.

Before you reply, I play solo mostly.

If you mostly play solo, then you have no real reason to grind CP. If you do dungeons and trials, then you'd have a reason, but solo play? No way. I'm a solo player with 370 CP and I see absolutely no reason to grind up to 720. You should stop grinding and just play the game. This isn't one of those grind-heavy games where you get a quest to kill 49 monsters in one zone and then have to kill 58 in the next. I've played those games for years and ESO is nothing like them.

GawdSB · March 2018

Buy them? No...

But I don't know why the hell they keep increasing the CP cap. CP in itself is a big fail.

altemriel · March 2018

LOL, "yes", buy XP, buy CP, buy gear, buy research, buy quest progress....WTH???

you want to play the game, or no?

Knowledge · March 2018

altemriel wrote: »

LOL, "yes", buy XP, buy CP, buy gear, buy research, buy quest progress....WTH???

you want to play the game, or no?

Of course I do. We all want to play the game and that's why we do play it. Some players can play all day long while others cannot. Those that can play all day long do not need to buy catch up mechanics. Those that work a lot etc have to buy boosts in wow, boost in FFXIV, etc to remain relevant and enjoy the game.

There's no reason why it can't be the case here,

AlnilamE · March 2018

JungleBoot wrote: »

As much as I would love to catch up faster, I would never buy a "CP 720" token or some such item. I've reached CP 425 and I'm not sure I will hit CP 500. I feel completely left behind and don't think there is a real way for me to "catch up" short of playing 24 / 7 for 6mos to a year. That just isn't going to happen. Besides, there is just too much grinding in this game and it is sapping the fun out of it. You try to get gear for your character and wind up spending 2 to 3 days doing the same activity over and over. It's ***. Doesn't mean I don't like the game. I just recognize the futile nature of trying to get caught with player who have been going at it since day one.

Before you reply, I play solo mostly.

What content in the game have you encountered that made you feel like 425 CP wasn't enough?

Zalicius · March 2018

I think some things should be earned in game. CP being one of them. Aside from the fact there would be quite a few people that may feel let down by Zeni, all we really need is a bunch of unexperienced max CP players causing multiple group wipes from lack of experience in advanced dungeons. I think the overall effect could possibly be frustration for many players. So, I vote no.

summitxho · March 2018

I think this opens up an interesting question, does the typical casual player care about max CP? I can only speak for myself as a casual player but I tend to agree with some others in the thread, being a casual I don't really tend to care about my CP, only being able to complete the content and stories I want, that being said if I was a casual PVP player or casual player who cared about vet content and being competitive, it would be more relevant, but I still stick along the lines that it should be earned not bought. What about some sort of tiered enlightenment, the harder the content, you get more enlightenment bonuses of some sort. Those casuals who wanted to max CP could choose content to achieve this.

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

summitxho wrote: »

I think this opens up an interesting question, does the typical casual player care about max CP? I can only speak for myself as a casual player but I tend to agree with some others in the thread, being a casual I don't really tend to care about my CP, only being able to complete the content and stories I want, that being said if I was a casual PVP player or casual player who cared about vet content and being competitive, it would be more relevant, but I still stick along the lines that it should be earned not bought.

I care only in that I can use them to improve my character. They're like a bonus for doing what I would do anyway. They are not something I intentionally try to increase, too busy playing the game to really focus on that.

Twenty0zTsunami · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

JungleBoot wrote: »

As much as I would love to catch up faster, I would never buy a "CP 720" token or some such item. I've reached CP 425 and I'm not sure I will hit CP 500. I feel completely left behind and don't think there is a real way for me to "catch up" short of playing 24 / 7 for 6mos to a year. That just isn't going to happen. Besides, there is just too much grinding in this game and it is sapping the fun out of it. You try to get gear for your character and wind up spending 2 to 3 days doing the same activity over and over. It's ***. Doesn't mean I don't like the game. I just recognize the futile nature of trying to get caught with player who have been going at it since day one.

Before you reply, I play solo mostly.

This is exactly the problem I want this game to deal with! I don't want players like your self to leave the game because you feel unwanted or unable to catch up to people with large time investments. This has historically made MMORPGs "top-heavy" and only populated by elitists. They then die a slow death.

Once all of the casual players leave that are fed up grinding their way toward relevancy there will be no one left to make this community, well, a real community.

its not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

Juju_beans · March 2018

summitxho wrote: »

I think this opens up an interesting question, does the typical casual player care about max CP? I can only speak for myself as a casual player but I tend to agree with some others in the thread, being a casual I don't really tend to care about my CP, only being able to complete the content and stories I want, that being said if I was a casual PVP player or casual player who cared about vet content and being competitive, it would be more relevant, but I still stick along the lines that it should be earned not bought. What about some sort of tiered enlightenment, the harder the content, you get more enlightenment bonuses of some sort. Those casuals who wanted to max CP could choose content to achieve this.

You can play no CP pvp campaign. I'm about CP330 now and that's what I play. Will probably stick with no CP campaign even after I finally reach max CP (if ever) cause it's more fun.

Juju_beans · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

LOL, "yes", buy XP, buy CP, buy gear, buy research, buy quest progress....WTH???

you want to play the game, or no?

Of course I do. We all want to play the game and that's why we do play it. Some players can play all day long while others cannot. Those that can play all day long do not need to buy catch up mechanics. Those that work a lot etc have to buy boosts in wow, boost in FFXIV, etc to remain relevant and enjoy the game.

There's no reason why it can't be the case here,

Remain relevant for what ? I can complete most things solo at cp330. I have no interest in trials.
For PVP I go into the no CP campaign. vMA and vDSA don't require max CP to enter and that's my future goals.

What magical thing happens to casuals that they need to be at CP720 now ?

Knowledge · March 2018

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

JungleBoot wrote: »

As much as I would love to catch up faster, I would never buy a "CP 720" token or some such item. I've reached CP 425 and I'm not sure I will hit CP 500. I feel completely left behind and don't think there is a real way for me to "catch up" short of playing 24 / 7 for 6mos to a year. That just isn't going to happen. Besides, there is just too much grinding in this game and it is sapping the fun out of it. You try to get gear for your character and wind up spending 2 to 3 days doing the same activity over and over. It's ***. Doesn't mean I don't like the game. I just recognize the futile nature of trying to get caught with player who have been going at it since day one.

Before you reply, I play solo mostly.

This is exactly the problem I want this game to deal with! I don't want players like your self to leave the game because you feel unwanted or unable to catch up to people with large time investments. This has historically made MMORPGs "top-heavy" and only populated by elitists. They then die a slow death.

Once all of the casual players leave that are fed up grinding their way toward relevancy there will be no one left to make this community, well, a real community.

its not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

It is bad though. What makes it even worse is it's constantly going up. If the CP wasn't constantly being raised there'd be no concern.

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

JungleBoot wrote: »

As much as I would love to catch up faster, I would never buy a "CP 720" token or some such item. I've reached CP 425 and I'm not sure I will hit CP 500. I feel completely left behind and don't think there is a real way for me to "catch up" short of playing 24 / 7 for 6mos to a year. That just isn't going to happen. Besides, there is just too much grinding in this game and it is sapping the fun out of it. You try to get gear for your character and wind up spending 2 to 3 days doing the same activity over and over. It's ***. Doesn't mean I don't like the game. I just recognize the futile nature of trying to get caught with player who have been going at it since day one.

Before you reply, I play solo mostly.

This is exactly the problem I want this game to deal with! I don't want players like your self to leave the game because you feel unwanted or unable to catch up to people with large time investments. This has historically made MMORPGs "top-heavy" and only populated by elitists. They then die a slow death.

Once all of the casual players leave that are fed up grinding their way toward relevancy there will be no one left to make this community, well, a real community.

its not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

It is bad though. What makes it even worse is it's constantly going up. If the CP wasn't constantly being raised there'd be no concern.

I really don't get this. If CP wasn't "constantly going up", we'd be stagnating and that's not good at all.

This is an MMO, there is no "winning". There will always (hopefully) be advances, goalposts being moved, more things to strive for. I think you do a disservice to newcomers to the game. Those who have played MMOs before know the score and usually (if it matters to them) will quickly find a way to seek whatever level of competence they want. If someone is truly a newcomer to the genre, they're going to be so busy figuring out all the stuff to do, they aren't likely to be overly concerned with how far away those "goal posts" are. At least not at first and by the time they have gotten past the initial newbieness they will set off down the path toward whatever their goal is.

It sounds like you think that everyone wants to charge for high CP. Not so. Granted, some do and that's fine. But others are more about getting there than being there.

zaria · March 2018

JungleBoot wrote: »

As much as I would love to catch up faster, I would never buy a "CP 720" token or some such item. I've reached CP 425 and I'm not sure I will hit CP 500. I feel completely left behind and don't think there is a real way for me to "catch up" short of playing 24 / 7 for 6mos to a year. That just isn't going to happen. Besides, there is just too much grinding in this game and it is sapping the fun out of it. You try to get gear for your character and wind up spending 2 to 3 days doing the same activity over and over. It's ***. Doesn't mean I don't like the game. I just recognize the futile nature of trying to get caught with player who have been going at it since day one.

Before you reply, I play solo mostly.

You will catch up however it will take around 9 months, at least it did to me just using up the enlightenment, no grinding at all unless you call running lots of random dungeons on alts grinding.
However at 425 you already have the most of the cp benefits,

zaria · March 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

LOL, "yes", buy XP, buy CP, buy gear, buy research, buy quest progress....WTH???

you want to play the game, or no?

Of course I do. We all want to play the game and that's why we do play it. Some players can play all day long while others cannot. Those that can play all day long do not need to buy catch up mechanics. Those that work a lot etc have to buy boosts in wow, boost in FFXIV, etc to remain relevant and enjoy the game.

There's no reason why it can't be the case here,

Remain relevant for what ? I can complete most things solo at cp330. I have no interest in trials.
For PVP I go into the no CP campaign. vMA and vDSA don't require max CP to enter and that's my future goals.

What magical thing happens to casuals that they need to be at CP720 now ?

Prestige:
You do 10% more damage and is 10% more resistant, ignore compared to player skills, on the other hand an max cp player has played longer and is usually more experienced. (usual lots of exceptions obviosly)

DoctorESO · March 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

The only other reason this is an issue is due to elitism. The game could resolve this problem by "hiding" your CP or only showing a max of CP 160.

There are players in this game that will refuse to run with people below the cap. This can discourage new players heavily and even drive them to quit.

That's not a game issue. That's a player issue (and a small minority at that). Hiding CP won't stop elitism.

Everyone I run with has no issue running with people below cap. If we're running vet content though, everyone pulls their weight. If you're not, you're out. Doesn't matter what level you are.

Brings me back to my point about the clueless high CP players. There are a lot of them, and they are a real problem when you're filling out a group through DF or for a trial.

This misguided fixation on CP level as a means of gauging skill is indeed a problem, but it's not a game problem. It's a player perception problem.

Your argument provides that removing CP visibility would benefit us.

No way. The same people who currently kick players who don't have x amount of CP, are the ones who would say things like "Tell us your CP or leave." Now of course, you could make the argument that low CP players (i.e. CP 10-150) would just lie and say they're higher than they are, but when gear starts dropping at below 160 those players who lied would then get kicked.

Lol, didn't consider that. I guess certain people would just suggest we ban group loot logs then.

Slippery slope there.

You say that, but there are definitely people who find group loot logs annoying. Usually because some people can't take "No" for an answer.

People. We're why we can't have nice things.

Interestingly, when I say no, people tend to respond with a high gold offer.

Emma_Overload · March 2018

I don't think CP in the Crown Store will work because ZOS will charge too much for it. I think the best solution is to dramatically increase the buffs from the XP potions and scrolls. Base buff for the scroll and cheapest pot should be 100% then go up to 200% and 400% for the Aetherial and Mythic pots. Considering how much the pots cost, this is the least they can do.

leepalmer95 · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

JungleBoot wrote: »

As much as I would love to catch up faster, I would never buy a "CP 720" token or some such item. I've reached CP 425 and I'm not sure I will hit CP 500. I feel completely left behind and don't think there is a real way for me to "catch up" short of playing 24 / 7 for 6mos to a year. That just isn't going to happen. Besides, there is just too much grinding in this game and it is sapping the fun out of it. You try to get gear for your character and wind up spending 2 to 3 days doing the same activity over and over. It's ***. Doesn't mean I don't like the game. I just recognize the futile nature of trying to get caught with player who have been going at it since day one.

Before you reply, I play solo mostly.

This is exactly the problem I want this game to deal with! I don't want players like your self to leave the game because you feel unwanted or unable to catch up to people with large time investments. This has historically made MMORPGs "top-heavy" and only populated by elitists. They then die a slow death.

Once all of the casual players leave that are fed up grinding their way toward relevancy there will be no one left to make this community, well, a real community.

Again what purpose is being max cp going to help you with? The only thing you wont really be able to do at cp425 is the harder vet trials. Thats it. So i'm confused to where this 'relevancy' suddenly comes in?

@JungleBoot You gain 1 cp of enlightenment a day, the cp increases 30 every 3 months. It takes roughly 30mins - 1 hour of doing absolutely anything that gains exp at your cp level even the bad exp activities. You are telling me you don't play a total of 15-30 hours a months? Even just playing the game for like 3-4 hours on a sunday you will gain you enough cp for the cap increase in a month. You are then catching up.

Even in you play the game for roughly 7.5 hours - 15 hours a MONTH you would still gain cp on the cap when it is inevitably increased and i'm sorry but if you are not playing the game for even these hours then a MMO isn't for you. I'm not quite sure why you don't feel 'relevant' with your current cp?

You have enough cp to be effective in the cp pvp, you can go the non cp pvp, you can do all dungeons and vet dungeon, you cna do vma, vdsa and all trials. The only thing you couldn't really do is vet asylum or vet maw which is the absolute end game for pve.

Knowledge · March 2018

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't think CP in the Crown Store will work because ZOS will charge too much for it. I think the best solution is to dramatically increase the buffs from the XP potions and scrolls. Base buff for the scroll and cheapest pot should be 100% then go up to 200% and 400% for the Aetherial and Mythic pots. Considering how much the pots cost, this is the least they can do.

This is a good idea. Increasing the XP from scrolls would be fantastic.

DoctorESO · March 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Even in you play the game for roughly 7.5 hours - 15 hours a MONTH you would still gain cp on the cap when it is inevitably increased and i'm sorry but if you are not playing the game for even these hours then a MMO isn't for you.

Is that how the game is marketed? Must play at least 7.5-15 hours per month?

Knowledge · March 2018

The point of this thread is to create ideas and solutions to a problem that many individuals believe exists. The extreme solution is obviously to allow CP to be purchased. There can be a middle ground for some this problem that doesn't include buying CP from the Crown Store.

Possible Solutions:

Stop raising the CP cap entirely.
Decrease required XP up to the previous cap (690)
Give players "automatic CP" daily. Instead of enlightenment you gain 5 points a day passively.
Hide CP from the group window. Only show if a player is 160 but do not show how much more they have.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

The point of this thread is to create ideas and solutions to a problem that many individuals believe exists. The extreme solution is obviously to allow CP to be purchased. There can be a middle ground for some this problem that doesn't include buying CP from the Crown Store.

Possible Solutions:
Stop raising the CP cap entirely.

Decrease required XP up to the previous cap (690)

Give players "automatic CP" daily. Instead of enlightenment you gain 5 points a day passively.

Hide CP from the group window. Only show if a player is 160 but do not show how much more they have.

a problem that many individuals believe exists.

But not all believe this is a problem.
As stated, the enlightenment feature allows for catch up.
Cp only gives like 0.4% increase after 20-30 points in a CP passive. It is not OP.
Remember Vet Ranks? I do. Do we want that back?
And why should some one with 300 hours of game play automatically, by buying CP, be equal to someone with 8,000 hours game play just because they feel entitled? Should we just sell levels 1-50 like WoW too?
No to stop raising CP as that is the only progression for max players.

Hide CP? IDK. It has been drug out already. High CP does not make a skilled player! A CP 100 with 250 skill points is way better and more skilled than a 690 CP with 100 skill points.

Give players "automatic CP" daily.

Do this and I will be at 1500+CP by summer... Just no also.. Enlightenment works just fine.
Just my 2 drakes....Huzzah!

JungleBoot · March 2018

I won't address every question thrown my way. I will tackle a few and hopefully not be confusing. First, I have an opinion to get out of the way. Players who have spent thousands of hours -- as one poster mentioned an arbitrary 8,000 hours -- are merely concerned with protecting their "power" over lower level players. Casual gamers see this everywhere when someone who may have better reflexes, eye sight, co-ordination, etc. trashes a game because they beat that game or reached end-game content far faster than the vastly larger player base the game was designed for. Assassin's Creed: Origins is an example. The game was not delivered with a new game plus feature or "hard mode." Now, it has one. And I admit, I have no idea if that was ever intended or not. I'm just pointing it out.

Earlier: What content in the game have you encountered that made you feel like 425 CP wasn't enough?

Followed by: " ... all we really need is a bunch of unexperienced max CP players causing multiple group wipes from lack of experience in advanced dungeons."

I don't feel like I need to say much about the above. It's kind of a prevailing sentiment where said gamer only cares about playing with those who know everything about the game and isn't willing to help others get there. Thus, I would never "catch up" in that scenario. There is more than CP required to get caught up. There is gear. There is raw materials in order to max out gear "after" you find stuff that suits your play style. There is maxing out a crafter. There is maxing out riding skills. There is the general trial and error of playing the game. There is PvP and constantly being fodder to gank squads, 1vXers, and more.

And there is this: Is that how the game is marketed? Must play at least 7.5-15 hours per month?
I happen to agree. Playing is not a job and it shouldn't be a chore. But an MMO by standard - an outdated standard at that -- requires an inordinate amount of time to advance and be "worthy" of others. I will never understand this mind set. A prime example to the "chore" aspect is mount training. It really boils down to a daily login requirement should you "care" about that. But if you're mount is stuck at initial speed in Cryodiil, you are left in the dust by the zerg heading to the next keep. Thus, you can fix that by logging in daily for the next 60 days (which inflates corporate metric numbers) and train mount speed or spend money on riding lessons in the crown store. I'm a cheap. I'll raise my riding skill to 60 eventually.

MercTheMage · March 2018

Why should you be able to buy something I worked my ass off to get?

JungleBoot · March 2018

Correction. You played your tail off. I doubt you got "paid" with real currency to get where you are in ESO.