Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? Should we be able to buy them?

Anotherone773 · February 2018

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

If they play consistently for 9-12 months (about 3-4 months actual playtime), they will go from zero to max. That's not too much to ask for.

The CP EXP curve never changes. If you want max CP, play the game, learn the game, and earn the CP the right way. Anything else is detrimental to the health of endgame, and a disservice to the player.

But OP said they are a casual player so maybe they want to log off for months and when they come back just buy their way to max cp level each and every time they decide to play.

I'm a casual player but not like the OP. I'm playing almost a year now (May 2017 I started) and I'm around CP315.
The only time I watched my CP and tried to grind it up was to go from 50 to CP160 so I could make my gear. I don't watch my CP at all, I just play and right before I log off I see if I have any points to allocate.

Logging off and not playing for months is not casual playing. It's literally not playing at all.

Casual playing is playing a small set number of hours per week, usually 1-3 nights per week. Any less than that is nothing but playing occasionally, so if you're not putting the time in, of course you're not going to get the levels out.

I maintain there is another definition for "casual" and I'm the epitome of it.

I play pretty much daily. I do a variety of things as mood dictates. I do not focus on being the best or über. I focus on having fun, my way, within the parameters of the game. Questing, crafting, exploring, working on achievements etc.

The difference is the mindset. I'm not driven to do anything. I don't feel the need to have BiS, merely to have whatever works for whatever I'm fighting. I'm not concerned that other players are better or higher level or have neater looking gear.

That said, I think folk should earn what they want, in general and accept that if they're not crazy about certain aspects of the game (PvP or Undaunted or trials etc.) that they cannot then expect to be on the same level as those willing to put their time and energy into those things.

What? That is crazy talk! You mean that you play the game as intended? Doing what you want? Not worrying about being max level or BiS or elite? That your in no hurry to get to the end game?

Its almost like...like you play this game for....entertainment instead of as a job!

PS: I also play this way. People miss out on so much because they are always in a hurry to get to the end of something.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2018

Dev Commentary:

Changed Enlightenment to Entitlement because of threads like this one.

I'm at cap. Have been at cap for some time now.

I've never had an issue burning by enlightenment and earning CP's, even at the vastly higher cost than a low level would have.

Between enlightenment, reduced cost, dailies that give absurd bonus XP, and frontloaded stars, they're practically handing it to you the way it is now.

It's not. That. Hard.

Izariel · February 2018

I am at about 230 CP currently. I just came back from a long absence and have been playing quite a lot in the last week. (though I'm an adult with a full time job and other responsibilities.) When I started I was around 170 CP. So in a week of constant playing I have gained 60 CP levels. That is not too bad. Apparently this is accelerated as it is on the lower side of the CP scale.

I shudder to think how long it will take me to gain CP once i start getting higher numbers though. Meanwhile, I am very comfortable getting two shot in pvp and yelling helplessly as it happens over and over again.

josiahva · February 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

There is a CP catch-up mechanic, it's called enlightenment, and the experience requirements for the lower CP levels are heavily reduced each patch to allow you to catch up.

As much as I love EVE, this is not EVE. EVE's business model does not belong in this game, and if you want that, you should go play EVE.

Earn what you have.

I don't feel like that is enough of a catch up. I would settle for permanent enlightenment until the previous CP cap is met. For example, if we had "permanent enlightenment" up to 690 CP that would make sense.

boo hoo, suck it up and grind the CP like everyone else....in fact, I worked far harder for my CP than you ever will. It really doesnt make much difference past 400 or so anyway, its marginal.

DoctorESO · February 2018

A feeling like this?

huge.104.520350.JPG

DocDova · February 2018

I for one suggested that enlightenment (entitlement) should be removed altogether (rather than rationing it), as it's decreasing fun I wanted to have. Enjoying the game is most important thing But somewhere there is a need to get rewarded (by leveling up or earning CP). As a player when I play with/without enlightenment/entitlement, It changes the game experience (Which should be most important thing). That's why I posted my point of view that either there should be enough enlightenment or none at all, As preserving game experience is more important than newcomers/ oldtimers feelings of entitlement (Whichever is applicable) and I offer that maybe as an experiment disable enlightenment for me. I am good either way, It's rationing which is ruining playing experience for me. It would take my focus off CP and I would just enjoy the game, complete the quests, earn whatever achievement I can get and be done with it.

Shadowasrial · February 2018

We all had to farm our Cp you should too that is all

Immoralthang · February 2018

Yes, let's make the game Pay 2 Win instead of you know... actually playing the game?

This thread is disgusting. You don't want to put any effort into grinding CP and think the only solution is to pay your way to the top.

There are plenty of Pay2Win games OP. Do not pollute this great game and community with your toxic (and quite frankly stupid) ideas.

SickDuck · February 2018

Each time the cap raises the cost to earn 1 cp is decreased. Reaching cp720 requires the same total xp gain as cp501 used to be when cap was introduced first. Which means it requires exactly the same effort (or even less thanks to increased events, xp rewards, scrolls, etc.) to reach the cp cap for all users regardless when they joined the game.

LiquidPony · February 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I did read your posts in this thread I just didn't really think much of them. What I see all over this thread is nothing but people thinking that they should get to dictate how and why other people play the game. Just seems silly to me.

we didnt think much of your posts either. i love this attitude. give me something for free that everyone else earned. no? stop dictating how i can play.

you know whats silly? you. buying a game and then not wanting to play it and instead demanding that the game developers just hand stuff to you on a silver platter.

If you cant handle it, go find a single player game with an xp hack and you do that to your hearts content. We dont care. But the people who earned our levels by actually playing, dont want people like you to be at our level in the game. Then we might actually think you know how to play and want to group with you. buying levels to many people is cheating. And we dont like cheats.

@Slick_007

Please.

I am well over the cap on my primary account. I was here back when grinding VR was a *real* chore. 10 characters loaded up with Maelstrom weapons and Master weapons and Alkosh and Moondancer and War Machine and Master Architect and VO and more BiS gear than you could shake a stick it.

I have no personal stake in ZOS introducing a new, faster way to earn CP. Didn't really have a huge need for Transmutation, either, but I wasn't here complaining that Transmutation was going to somehow diminish the fact that I had already spent countless hours grinding out the gear I needed in the right traits. Oh noes, it took me 1,000 hours of grinding Maelstrom to get a Maelstrom inferno in [insert trait here], now some guy can run it 5 times and get it, how will I ever cope?

So what? Spending all that time grinding Maelstrom, throwing away garbage weapon after garbage weapon, was stupid. It was a waste of time and energy. I'm glad it's easier now so new players don't have to deal with that nonsense. And I feel the same way about CP. And I think all of the commentary here painting most players as scrubs who don't know how to play the game despite having max CP makes it pretty evident that speeding up the journey to cap isn't going to make a lick of difference in the quality of the player base.

Your comment is just such a perfect example of exactly the point I'm trying to make. You made literally zero rational points about why there shouldn't be a faster CP catch-up mechanic. You just took it personally and immediately jumped into personal attack mode.

I sometimes forget that I'm in a community of children.

Kuramas9tails · February 2018

Have nothing more in life to do and you will catch up my friend.

VaranisArano · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

And I think all of the commentary here painting most players as scrubs who don't know how to play the game despite having max CP makes it pretty evident that speeding up the journey to cap isn't going to make a lick of difference in the quality of the player base.

See, when I look at the current group of people with high CP who don't know how to play - those are mostly people who got their CP through grinding Skyreach or Spellscar or Alikr Dolmens. You know, stuff that gets you exp but doesn't actually give you experience at playing the game (though even that gives you more game experience than buying your CP).

People who got their CP by playing the game, doing dungeons, running quests...they at least have played the game. They used their skills to fight, they've had plenty of opportunities to learn to block, bash, interrupt, and not stand in stupid. They at least know the basics and often more than that.

My contention is that allowing players to buy CP will increase the amount of players who have high CP but can't play, thus making the problem worse. Having players with high CP but who can't play frustrates both those players and more experienced players alike and overall makes the playerbase worse in quality.

LiquidPony · February 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

And I think all of the commentary here painting most players as scrubs who don't know how to play the game despite having max CP makes it pretty evident that speeding up the journey to cap isn't going to make a lick of difference in the quality of the player base.

See, when I look at the current group of people with high CP who don't know how to play - those are mostly people who got their CP through grinding Skyreach or Spellscar or Alikr Dolmens. You know, stuff that gets you exp but doesn't actually give you experience at playing the game (though even that gives you more game experience than buying your CP).

People who got their CP by playing the game, doing dungeons, running quests...they at least have played the game. They used their skills to fight, they've had plenty of opportunities to learn to block, bash, interrupt, and not stand in stupid. They at least know the basics and often more than that.

My contention is that allowing players to buy CP will increase the amount of players who have high CP but can't play, thus making the problem worse. Having players with high CP but who can't play frustrates both those players and more experienced players alike and overall makes the playerbase worse in quality.

I disagree.

Grinding Skyreach or public dungeons is better practice for end game combat than questing or doing Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild content or whatever else. Hell, grinding Skyreach is more difficult than just about any normal group dungeon in the game, IMO.

You have to block, break free, not stand in the stupid, and be able to sustain to be able to (efficiently) grind Skyreach. You don't have to do anything other than heavy attack to play through every bit of quest content in the game and most normal group dungeons as well.

Anecdotally I know plenty of very skilled players who smash through the hardest content in the game who got the vast majority of their CP by grinding, and I know plenty of not very skilled players who struggle in DLC dungeons who got their CP by "actually playing the game."

To me, the game itself does little to nothing to prepare players for end game content. Most people will learn more in an hour on YouTube than they will in 400 hours of play time doing quests and overland content and normal dungeons.

Anotherone773 · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

And I think all of the commentary here painting most players as scrubs who don't know how to play the game despite having max CP makes it pretty evident that speeding up the journey to cap isn't going to make a lick of difference in the quality of the player base.

See, when I look at the current group of people with high CP who don't know how to play - those are mostly people who got their CP through grinding Skyreach or Spellscar or Alikr Dolmens. You know, stuff that gets you exp but doesn't actually give you experience at playing the game (though even that gives you more game experience than buying your CP).

People who got their CP by playing the game, doing dungeons, running quests...they at least have played the game. They used their skills to fight, they've had plenty of opportunities to learn to block, bash, interrupt, and not stand in stupid. They at least know the basics and often more than that.

My contention is that allowing players to buy CP will increase the amount of players who have high CP but can't play, thus making the problem worse. Having players with high CP but who can't play frustrates both those players and more experienced players alike and overall makes the playerbase worse in quality.

I disagree.

Grinding Skyreach or public dungeons is better practice for end game combat than questing or doing Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild content or whatever else. Hell, grinding Skyreach is more difficult than just about any normal group dungeon in the game, IMO.

You have to block, break free, not stand in the stupid, and be able to sustain to be able to (efficiently) grind Skyreach. You don't have to do anything other than heavy attack to play through every bit of quest content in the game and most normal group dungeons as well.

Anecdotally I know plenty of very skilled players who smash through the hardest content in the game who got the vast majority of their CP by grinding, and I know plenty of not very skilled players who struggle in DLC dungeons who got their CP by "actually playing the game."

To me, the game itself does little to nothing to prepare players for end game content. Most people will learn more in an hour on YouTube than they will in 400 hours of play time doing quests and overland content and normal dungeons.

The bovine scatology is strong in this post.

That is like saying that if i learn the boss mechanics of one vet dungeon i should be a pro at all vet dungeons. Just because you can do the same dungeon/delve over and over and over and learn to do it does NOT transfer to other content. What you learn by doing skyreach for hours on end is...how to efficiently do skyreach...at best.

And the youtube reference is just absolutely ridiculous. You can learn more in an hour watching youtube than you can playing 400 hours in game. If you spent 400 hours in game and you learned more in an hour off youtube, you are seriously doing something wrong like not leaving the bank in the city.

And yes doing other content does help you learn because you encounter different scenarios against different mobs with different abilities.

But that entire argument is pointless because a majority of players do not play games to hurry up and reach end game content. In fact i dont know ANY players in this game in ANY of my guilds that are currently trying to hurry up and hit 720. Most people want to play through at least a decent amount of content.

Most people also do not want some scrub in their group that bought their way to the top and has no clue what they are doing with that character.

If you want to be instant end game, go play skyrim using the cheats and godmode. There you go, elder scroll instant endgame.

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO · February 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

You do realize that the exp needed to gain CP720 from 1 to 720 in total is the same compared to last patch max CP 690, which was the same total exp needed for when the max cp was 420. The time that it takes for making a max CP character from scratch is the same (if not easier to the availability of CP points). That is the built in catch-up mechanic and it works fine.

Ardan147 · February 2018

One thing that got me a lot of XP very quickly was to drink an XP potion and then turn in a large number of master writs at once. (While you can only have one master writ for each profession active at a given time, you can craft all the items beforehand and use the writ when you're standing right in front of Rolis and immediately turn it in.) Also doing a random dungeon with the dungeon finder and drinking an XP pot before (or even during) the final boss fight.

But you also need to remember that CP are not the only thing that matter; if anything ranks in your skill lines and having the skill points to unlock necessary skills is actually far more important.

JKorr · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

And I think all of the commentary here painting most players as scrubs who don't know how to play the game despite having max CP makes it pretty evident that speeding up the journey to cap isn't going to make a lick of difference in the quality of the player base.

See, when I look at the current group of people with high CP who don't know how to play - those are mostly people who got their CP through grinding Skyreach or Spellscar or Alikr Dolmens. You know, stuff that gets you exp but doesn't actually give you experience at playing the game (though even that gives you more game experience than buying your CP).

People who got their CP by playing the game, doing dungeons, running quests...they at least have played the game. They used their skills to fight, they've had plenty of opportunities to learn to block, bash, interrupt, and not stand in stupid. They at least know the basics and often more than that.

My contention is that allowing players to buy CP will increase the amount of players who have high CP but can't play, thus making the problem worse. Having players with high CP but who can't play frustrates both those players and more experienced players alike and overall makes the playerbase worse in quality.

I disagree.

Grinding Skyreach or public dungeons is better practice for end game combat than questing or doing Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild content or whatever else. Hell, grinding Skyreach is more difficult than just about any normal group dungeon in the game, IMO.

You have to block, break free, not stand in the stupid, and be able to sustain to be able to (efficiently) grind Skyreach. You don't have to do anything other than heavy attack to play through every bit of quest content in the game and most normal group dungeons as well.

Anecdotally I know plenty of very skilled players who smash through the hardest content in the game who got the vast majority of their CP by grinding, and I know plenty of not very skilled players who struggle in DLC dungeons who got their CP by "actually playing the game."

To me, the game itself does little to nothing to prepare players for end game content. Most people will learn more in an hour on YouTube than they will in 400 hours of play time doing quests and overland content and normal dungeons.

And the people who buy multiple carries through skyreach absorb all that information by osmosis.... How much grinding/playing the game is there when someone pays to be carried through content for experience? How much attention is the "carried" paying to how the "carriers" are playing the game? Not much reason to pay attention when others are doing all the fighting/game mechanics.

I've seen multiple requests offering to pay gold for skyreach carries while I'm in craglorn doing a circle for mats/nirncrux. Not really sure how much "hands on" is required if you're paying others to carry you through content, even if it is called "grinding".

Thoradeldo · February 2018

I personal think that they should sell a 300 CP Starter Pack in the Crown Store for newly rival gamers to ESO and that it can only be purchased once, but if the gamer has started earning CP pass 100 they'd be disqualified from purchase.

Mitrenga · February 2018

Pray that you are not grinding for Vet levels.

LiquidPony · February 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

And I think all of the commentary here painting most players as scrubs who don't know how to play the game despite having max CP makes it pretty evident that speeding up the journey to cap isn't going to make a lick of difference in the quality of the player base.

See, when I look at the current group of people with high CP who don't know how to play - those are mostly people who got their CP through grinding Skyreach or Spellscar or Alikr Dolmens. You know, stuff that gets you exp but doesn't actually give you experience at playing the game (though even that gives you more game experience than buying your CP).

People who got their CP by playing the game, doing dungeons, running quests...they at least have played the game. They used their skills to fight, they've had plenty of opportunities to learn to block, bash, interrupt, and not stand in stupid. They at least know the basics and often more than that.

My contention is that allowing players to buy CP will increase the amount of players who have high CP but can't play, thus making the problem worse. Having players with high CP but who can't play frustrates both those players and more experienced players alike and overall makes the playerbase worse in quality.

I disagree.

Grinding Skyreach or public dungeons is better practice for end game combat than questing or doing Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild content or whatever else. Hell, grinding Skyreach is more difficult than just about any normal group dungeon in the game, IMO.

You have to block, break free, not stand in the stupid, and be able to sustain to be able to (efficiently) grind Skyreach. You don't have to do anything other than heavy attack to play through every bit of quest content in the game and most normal group dungeons as well.

Anecdotally I know plenty of very skilled players who smash through the hardest content in the game who got the vast majority of their CP by grinding, and I know plenty of not very skilled players who struggle in DLC dungeons who got their CP by "actually playing the game."

To me, the game itself does little to nothing to prepare players for end game content. Most people will learn more in an hour on YouTube than they will in 400 hours of play time doing quests and overland content and normal dungeons.

The bovine scatology is strong in this post.

That is like saying that if i learn the boss mechanics of one vet dungeon i should be a pro at all vet dungeons. Just because you can do the same dungeon/delve over and over and over and learn to do it does NOT transfer to other content. What you learn by doing skyreach for hours on end is...how to efficiently do skyreach...at best.

And the youtube reference is just absolutely ridiculous. You can learn more in an hour watching youtube than you can playing 400 hours in game. If you spent 400 hours in game and you learned more in an hour off youtube, you are seriously doing something wrong like not leaving the bank in the city.

And yes doing other content does help you learn because you encounter different scenarios against different mobs with different abilities.

But that entire argument is pointless because a majority of players do not play games to hurry up and reach end game content. In fact i dont know ANY players in this game in ANY of my guilds that are currently trying to hurry up and hit 720. Most people want to play through at least a decent amount of content.

Most people also do not want some scrub in their group that bought their way to the top and has no clue what they are doing with that character.

If you want to be instant end game, go play skyrim using the cheats and godmode. There you go, elder scroll instant endgame.

Ever had anyone in one of your guilds who switched platforms/servers?

I assure you that those people have zero interest in playing through the game again.

Same goes for people who are end game players (both PvE/PvP type players) in other games who want to get into ESO. Some people have no interest in the quest content, or really anything other than end game PvE or PvP.

And regardless, the suggestion here is "CP catch-up," not *level* catch-up. You'd still have to "actually play the game" from 1-50, which is going to get you through a big chunk of quest content along with (based on what the Level Up Advisor leads you towards) at least a bit of experience in normal dungeons.

And perhaps a "CP catch-up" could be limited to CP160 toons or greater. In other words, you have to reach the gear cap and then you can buy some sort of CP boost mechanism.

Rataroto · February 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

See this everyone? THIS is the kind of people that ruin MMO's, they don't to TAKE, they want to EARN

Thoradeldo · February 2018

Mitrenga wrote: »

Pray that you are not grinding for Vet levels.

Why would that be any different then running with players with 10-160 CP in Vet Dungeons?

Rataroto · February 2018

GTFO

Mitrenga · February 2018

Fiery_Archmage wrote: »

Mitrenga wrote: »

Pray that you are not grinding for Vet levels.

Why would that be any different then running with players with 10-160 CP in Vet Dungeons?

Because it was so slow and there were no mechanic to help you reach to your target. No Enlightened status, no pots. Seriously, my friend started this game wit Morrowind and he's only playing on Weekends. He's CP390 atm.

Join a guild, do the dailies from the Undaunted, Mage's Guild and Fighter's Guild and you will be fine. If none of them makes you happy, there's a grindfest in Alik'r called "+dolmen".

Unfadingsilence · February 2018

Anastian wrote: »

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

All gold training gear and 150% experience pots takes 4 days to go from 0 to 690 CP and if you wait for a double experience event with the 150% experience pots..... you can just grind your little heart out and hit max in only 2 days

Teach me master!

At the moment, with purple training gear, great DPS and 150 ambrosia I can get an average of 8 CP levels with 45 minutes of buff in Spellscar (which is way better than Skyreach, measured with same buffs and timing).
How are you achieving such a speed in levelling? Consider that I am currently CP 610, and that I am slowly grinding to 720 (I get 10 CPs a day, this way I can maintain hold on my soul).

PS: I never actually went on grinding CPs until lately

Are you eso+ are you married and if you grind ONLY grind with 1 other person anything more than that then you lose experience

Tandor · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

And I think all of the commentary here painting most players as scrubs who don't know how to play the game despite having max CP makes it pretty evident that speeding up the journey to cap isn't going to make a lick of difference in the quality of the player base.

See, when I look at the current group of people with high CP who don't know how to play - those are mostly people who got their CP through grinding Skyreach or Spellscar or Alikr Dolmens. You know, stuff that gets you exp but doesn't actually give you experience at playing the game (though even that gives you more game experience than buying your CP).

People who got their CP by playing the game, doing dungeons, running quests...they at least have played the game. They used their skills to fight, they've had plenty of opportunities to learn to block, bash, interrupt, and not stand in stupid. They at least know the basics and often more than that.

My contention is that allowing players to buy CP will increase the amount of players who have high CP but can't play, thus making the problem worse. Having players with high CP but who can't play frustrates both those players and more experienced players alike and overall makes the playerbase worse in quality.

I disagree.

Grinding Skyreach or public dungeons is better practice for end game combat than questing or doing Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild content or whatever else. Hell, grinding Skyreach is more difficult than just about any normal group dungeon in the game, IMO.

You have to block, break free, not stand in the stupid, and be able to sustain to be able to (efficiently) grind Skyreach. You don't have to do anything other than heavy attack to play through every bit of quest content in the game and most normal group dungeons as well.

Anecdotally I know plenty of very skilled players who smash through the hardest content in the game who got the vast majority of their CP by grinding, and I know plenty of not very skilled players who struggle in DLC dungeons who got their CP by "actually playing the game."

To me, the game itself does little to nothing to prepare players for end game content. Most people will learn more in an hour on YouTube than they will in 400 hours of play time doing quests and overland content and normal dungeons.

The bovine scatology is strong in this post.

That is like saying that if i learn the boss mechanics of one vet dungeon i should be a pro at all vet dungeons. Just because you can do the same dungeon/delve over and over and over and learn to do it does NOT transfer to other content. What you learn by doing skyreach for hours on end is...how to efficiently do skyreach...at best.

And the youtube reference is just absolutely ridiculous. You can learn more in an hour watching youtube than you can playing 400 hours in game. If you spent 400 hours in game and you learned more in an hour off youtube, you are seriously doing something wrong like not leaving the bank in the city.

And yes doing other content does help you learn because you encounter different scenarios against different mobs with different abilities.

But that entire argument is pointless because a majority of players do not play games to hurry up and reach end game content. In fact i dont know ANY players in this game in ANY of my guilds that are currently trying to hurry up and hit 720. Most people want to play through at least a decent amount of content.

Most people also do not want some scrub in their group that bought their way to the top and has no clue what they are doing with that character.

If you want to be instant end game, go play skyrim using the cheats and godmode. There you go, elder scroll instant endgame.

Ever had anyone in one of your guilds who switched platforms/servers?

I assure you that those people have zero interest in playing through the game again.

Then that is something that they should factor into their decision to switch, wouldn't you say?

Anotherone773 · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

And I think all of the commentary here painting most players as scrubs who don't know how to play the game despite having max CP makes it pretty evident that speeding up the journey to cap isn't going to make a lick of difference in the quality of the player base.

See, when I look at the current group of people with high CP who don't know how to play - those are mostly people who got their CP through grinding Skyreach or Spellscar or Alikr Dolmens. You know, stuff that gets you exp but doesn't actually give you experience at playing the game (though even that gives you more game experience than buying your CP).

People who got their CP by playing the game, doing dungeons, running quests...they at least have played the game. They used their skills to fight, they've had plenty of opportunities to learn to block, bash, interrupt, and not stand in stupid. They at least know the basics and often more than that.

My contention is that allowing players to buy CP will increase the amount of players who have high CP but can't play, thus making the problem worse. Having players with high CP but who can't play frustrates both those players and more experienced players alike and overall makes the playerbase worse in quality.

I disagree.

Grinding Skyreach or public dungeons is better practice for end game combat than questing or doing Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild content or whatever else. Hell, grinding Skyreach is more difficult than just about any normal group dungeon in the game, IMO.

You have to block, break free, not stand in the stupid, and be able to sustain to be able to (efficiently) grind Skyreach. You don't have to do anything other than heavy attack to play through every bit of quest content in the game and most normal group dungeons as well.

Anecdotally I know plenty of very skilled players who smash through the hardest content in the game who got the vast majority of their CP by grinding, and I know plenty of not very skilled players who struggle in DLC dungeons who got their CP by "actually playing the game."

To me, the game itself does little to nothing to prepare players for end game content. Most people will learn more in an hour on YouTube than they will in 400 hours of play time doing quests and overland content and normal dungeons.

The bovine scatology is strong in this post.

That is like saying that if i learn the boss mechanics of one vet dungeon i should be a pro at all vet dungeons. Just because you can do the same dungeon/delve over and over and over and learn to do it does NOT transfer to other content. What you learn by doing skyreach for hours on end is...how to efficiently do skyreach...at best.

And the youtube reference is just absolutely ridiculous. You can learn more in an hour watching youtube than you can playing 400 hours in game. If you spent 400 hours in game and you learned more in an hour off youtube, you are seriously doing something wrong like not leaving the bank in the city.

And yes doing other content does help you learn because you encounter different scenarios against different mobs with different abilities.

But that entire argument is pointless because a majority of players do not play games to hurry up and reach end game content. In fact i dont know ANY players in this game in ANY of my guilds that are currently trying to hurry up and hit 720. Most people want to play through at least a decent amount of content.

Most people also do not want some scrub in their group that bought their way to the top and has no clue what they are doing with that character.

If you want to be instant end game, go play skyrim using the cheats and godmode. There you go, elder scroll instant endgame.

Ever had anyone in one of your guilds who switched platforms/servers?

I assure you that those people have zero interest in playing through the game again.

Same goes for people who are end game players (both PvE/PvP type players) in other games who want to get into ESO. Some people have no interest in the quest content, or really anything other than end game PvE or PvP.

And regardless, the suggestion here is "CP catch-up," not *level* catch-up. You'd still have to "actually play the game" from 1-50, which is going to get you through a big chunk of quest content along with (based on what the Level Up Advisor leads you towards) at least a bit of experience in normal dungeons.

And perhaps a "CP catch-up" could be limited to CP160 toons or greater. In other words, you have to reach the gear cap and then you can buy some sort of CP boost mechanism.

That is there choice...as my wife says " make good choices". I honestly dont care about people who are in endgame content in other games and want to make the switch to ESO. Its not a career. Your not an attorney switching law firms or a doctor switching hospitals.

If they want to get to endgame content they can do it like everyone else by playing through the game. Actually you have to play the game even if you get instant level 50 and CP 720. You still have to gain all your skills, level guilds, so on and so forth. And pretty much all of that has to be done by... wait for it....

wait for it....

playing the game.

So all you would end up with is a bunch of dysfunctional CP level characters running around trying to do content they cant because they skipped 99% of the game and dragging everyone else down with them. THEN we have to listen to them whine in game and on the forums about how "game to hard, demand easy mode" or they will rage quit.

Im sorry but these people that need insta gratification, dont want to work for anything expect everything handed to them on a silver platter and spoon fed to them with a 14k gold spoon can just grow up and learn that they dont get everything just because they want it and they have to do some things they dont want to get to a place where they can do stuff they want.

People need to stop being so entitled.

Jhalin · February 2018

Getting to 300cp now is twice as easy as it was when 300cp was the cap. It get progressively easier every time the cap is raised for new players to reach all-content-readiness of 300cp, which is when the diminishing returns of cp start kicking in big time.

So you look at an easy process, and demand it gets easier, instant? When it's been designed for casual players anyway?

Juju_beans · February 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

Getting to 300cp now is twice as easy as it was when 300cp was the cap. It get progressively easier every time the cap is raised for new players to reach all-content-readiness of 300cp, which is when the diminishing returns of cp start kicking in big time.

So you look at an easy process, and demand it gets easier, instant? When it's been designed for casual players anyway?

But OP is a casual player that wants to be in the same place as more dedicated hard core players.
The only way OP can get there and still be casual is to buy their way to cp cap.

VaranisArano · February 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Getting to 300cp now is twice as easy as it was when 300cp was the cap. It get progressively easier every time the cap is raised for new players to reach all-content-readiness of 300cp, which is when the diminishing returns of cp start kicking in big time.

So you look at an easy process, and demand it gets easier, instant? When it's been designed for casual players anyway?

But OP is a casual player that wants to be in the same place as more dedicated hard core players.
The only way OP can get there and still be casual is to buy their way to cp cap.

I added two words to accurately describe what they want.
"The only way OP can get there right away and still be casual is to buy their way to cp cap."

They could, of course, continue to play casually and slowly but surely work their way up to the CP cap, but that won't get them what they want right now.